The Sheik Matchup Thread (read the OP noobs)

[KirbyKaze]

anyone wana give me some tips on how to beat sheik as falcon :D as impossible as that sounds?

Nair out of shield > her F-tilt on your shield even if she's spaced it using its maximum range but you have to be pretty perfect

Get her above you in any way you can and do ridiculous Uair combos.

Always DI away from her D-throw.

To escape her tech chase, ASDI up with C-stick and roll the control stick IMMEDIATELY when you hit the floor to remove her ability to jab reset (works when you'll be at 32%+ after the jab reset). At lower percents, wiggle the control stick to try to SDI her jab and avoid the reset; not guaranteed, but worth trying.

 

[Kira-]

mmm against ganon i only do like 3 things ever

1. approach with shield
2. if he does fair, wait for the first jab then shieldgrab (if it's not a spaced fair)
3. if he does bair, wd forward out of shield to uptilt > grab
4. if it is a spaced fair, wd back out of shield and charge/throw your needles

even if their spacing is really good, eventually they will get frustrated of not being able to hit you and do either #2 or #3 in which case they get grabbed and die immediately. What to do out of grabs should be easy enough to improvise, but if they DI away at high percent run and fair, if they DI up (or behind) you can either backwards shorthop fair or uptilt > fair or ftilt > fair if you're lucky

be careful of running up to them when they're dancing on platforms, they're deceptively fast there so you might get hit a bit sooner than you think. also be careful of your shield deteriorating, ganon can eat that **** up pretty fast. if that happens just run away for awhile. if you're on dreamland or DK64 you're lucky and can camp the top platforms with needles for like 5 seconds until you get your shield back but on something like Battlefield (you should ban Yoshi's) I just up B stall for a bit.



I forgot who wanted to know about Peach but here's all I do:

1. needle > fair/grab. fair if you're doing platform needle camping, grab if you land on even ground.

2. Don't challenge peach's fair! if they fair your shield they will either jab or dsmash or jab to dsmash. if they dsmash then wd out of your shield forward and switch up dsmash/grab depending on their reaction. if they jab just grab right after.

3. most peaches will either start to float or pull a turnip if you are both on the ground and within a certain distance from each other. but they can't feel pressured or else they'll probably shield/roll/dsmash instead of course. i think you need a decent feel for the game to know this situation. I call this "neutral position" where neither character has a frame advantage or is pressuring/being pressured. if they pull a turnip you can dash attack or boost grab, if they float just fair them. once you do this enough they'll be scared to do anything and you can just **** them on the ground with ftilts. [edit] - of course you will need to be close enough to get them in the first place. think of like... say you just dsmashed them and they tech in place. your dsmash ends and they teched, so you both get to start to approach again. they'll probably float since they're not too far away and so you run up to them and slap them out of it. this isn't the only place you can do it obviously, just look for it while you play and you'll get a better idea of when it's going to happen lol [end edit]



so yeah there's my simplistic style. you'd be surprised how often this really works. i just look for ways to grab in like every matchup pretty much since our grab is so broken.

lol, KK's pretty good.

Gives me trouble, especially if I slip up for a second.

hi unknown 552. your fox is crazy good, haven't seen you play falco which you apparently have?

 

[Twin_A]

I forgot who wanted to know about Peach but here's all I do:

1. needle > fair/grab. fair if you're doing platform needle camping, grab if you land on even ground.

2. Don't challenge peach's fair! if they fair your shield they will either jab or dsmash or jab to dsmash. if they dsmash then wd out of your shield forward and switch up dsmash/grab depending on their reaction. if they jab just grab right after.

3. most peaches will either start to float or pull a turnip if you are both on the ground and within a certain distance from each other. but they can't feel pressured or else they'll probably shield/roll/dsmash instead of course. i think you need a decent feel for the game to know this situation. I call this "neutral position" where neither character has a frame advantage or is pressuring/being pressured. if they pull a turnip you can dash attack or boost grab, if they float just fair them. once you do this enough they'll be scared to do anything and you can just **** them on the ground with ftilts. [edit] - of course you will need to be close enough to get them in the first place. think of like... say you just dsmashed them and they tech in place. your dsmash ends and they teched, so you both get to start to approach again. they'll probably float since they're not too far away and so you run up to them and slap them out of it. this isn't the only place you can do it obviously, just look for it while you play and you'll get a better idea of when it's going to happen lol [end edit]



so yeah there's my simplistic style. you'd be surprised how often this really works. i just look for ways to grab in like every matchup pretty much since our grab is so broken.

That was me. thanks bro :D
See you guys at Pound

 

[Alukard]

Actually I caught myself throwing a lot of tilts against scar.

Thats probably a good reason why I lost with sheik at Saffron.

i know thats how i lost as well ... i hate fighting him ... because he makes the very few hits u let CF have count ... usually kills u for it

****ing scar -___-

 

[soap]

those scar + hax set made me so happy

they should team for the rest of time

 

[unknown522]

i **** all sheiks that aren't phatgamer or z

My sheik your what ever mm?

my sheik is amazing.

get at me

 

[nicaboy]

Dude im down to mm all you chars with sheik and more <.<


Gambling is a seriuous problem.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

BUMPING.

There is a lot of great info in this thread already. More please.

More falco. Some IC's. Some falcon.

KK your advice is great.

I wish I could of played in front of you more at pound so you keep telling me everything I do wrong. It helped me improve a lot quickly

Edit: The more I play trail, the more I am giving up on Sheik-IC's. My falcon fairs much better against them and although the matchup is hard, it is a lot easier than sheik. Also, trail ***** marth so I can't use my marth well either. I wish I played peach..

 

[KirbyKaze]

KK your advice is great.

I wish I could of played in front of you more at pound so you keep telling me everything I do wrong. It helped me improve a lot quickly

lolll

You were playing I.B when I was shouting random slogans at you I think. I'm amazing like that. I dunno though, Sheik players usually aren't close to optimal with like... anything. Except Drephen. Drephen D-smashes better than anyone.

Edit: The more I play trail, the more I am giving up on Sheik-IC's. My falcon fairs much better against them and although the matchup is hard, it is a lot easier than sheik. Also, trail ***** marth so I can't use my marth well either. I wish I played peach..

Word. I remember watching Trail when he wasn't completely submerged in rust and just lightly dusted with it against Mew2King's Marth in the FCD crews when they hit Youtube. I was like whoamagod this guy is really good at a gay matchup on a dumb level like Yoshi's Story (back when people still called it Marth's Story).

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Ha yeah. It was hard to adapt my game as fast as you said, but it still helped . Drephen dsmashes very well. I'll learn his ways next time when I see him again.

He was fairing pretty well against I.B. in friendlies. Hopefully some crazy matchups happen again at SMYM except this time there won't be any choking.

The sheik IC's matchup gets worse and worse the more trail shakes off the rust. Hopefully I'll just never meet him in bracket.

canada is pretty cool. come out to MI. we'll hold a big tourny someday...ha

 

[SPAWN]

I can dream Haley, I can dream.

I read the op and then saw the Sheik ditto MU and was like bleh I'll read later LOL.

I can't believe I never subscribed here. O_O

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think if we actually want to keep this thread as a matchup thread, I'd need to redo it and give it a big makeover with help from people.

 

[SPAWN]

It wasn't... that bad to read through the whole thing... I went backwards and read from page 6 to page 3 so far.

This thread here is like everything discussed on the boards... only in 200 posts instead of 1000s.

Also KK I wanna talk to you on aim about Falco/Puff MUs. I gotta play Darc/Thorn/other Puffs and Falcos. When are you usually on aim? I'm free later in the day Thursday. I'm going to be wicked busy all day today.

 

[nicaboy]

Puff doesnt beat sheik. That is all

 

[SPAWN]

How does puff not beat Sheik? I feel like the only thing you can do vs her is needles. Puff's bair outprioritizes Sheik too geez.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you'll note, on the three matchup links on the OP there is no mention of ratios or who wins the matchup (if memory serves).

I don't particularly care who wins the matchup in this thread. Saying <x> vs <y> is 60/40 isn't what a matchup thread is for, I think, it's for what to do in the matchup. Crap like that goes in the Matchup Chart thread in MD.

edit: Sheik's Bair > Puff's Bair if you do it coming under her. The trick to competing with her aerials is to not be on the same horizontal plane. Be slightly under her, ideally. If she doesn't want to get under you, get on a platform and toss sewing equipment from the air.

 

[nicaboy]

Sheik vs jigglypuff

Ok I feel like throwing in my two cents.

Remember your sheik and you have great aerials and needles. When afar you can force jigs apporch with needles or just walking up to her while respecting her b air and f air hitboxes alike. Generaly jigs will either straight up out beat you in the air or you will trade. This how ever doesnt stop sheik from taking the match what so ever. As kirby kaze said

Sheik's Bair > Puff's Bair if you do it coming under her. The trick to competing with her aerials is to not be on the same horizontal plane. Be slightly under her, ideally. If she doesn't want to get under you, get on a platform and toss sewing equipment from the air.

I have also had success with falling down off platforms or the air with high droped back airs and got clean hits. Your back air works great but i would advise you to mix it up with n air as well or d tilt. Your back air aint that amazing vs jigs lol.

Down tilt as teczero has stated also works very well for finishers in stead of f tilt. It also sets you up for a nice up air which is sheiks BEST finsher on her. Im not quite sure at the % it kills plus it varies by what stage your on. It works wonders regardless.

Down smash works good on jigs while she is on the ground. Kira mentioned something about mango being able to rest you if jigs sheilds it. I havent seen it yet. Regardless it catches jigs off guard and is great damage.

I dont like forward tilt much at all. I use it randomly to throw jigs off.
Up tilt works if they are dumb enough to be directly above you or to poke them threw platforms while remaining safe.

Retreating f air or neutruals work if you she is on a really high % and dont mind a chance of trading with her. Remember her aerials dont kill but yours does. Her aerials lead into gimps and edge guarding. Thats how sheik is typicaly gonna die. Unless they catch you in the lag of your up b which leads into forward smash or a rest.

If you do manage to grab the ledge be smart about getting back on stage. Ledge hoping back on stage then throwing neeedles is great. But DO NOT attempt to rush her down after that connects. Get out of there asap. You do not wanna be near the legdge vs jigs. Waveland into sheild works as well. Sometimes get up attack of the ledge.

Jigs gets pressured out when she is conered. Space those back airs. You want the trade at high %.

If she whiffs rest down throw slap or u air(if at kill %) run. Sheik has no gurantee hits after that. Play smart play cool. Dont be recklessly hitting her because you will lose.

percents 0-80 I say its about building damage as you see fit. Aerials needles and if your lucky off of grabs. Which reminds me

DONT ****ING GRAB UNLESS YOUR POSITIVE YOUR GONNA LAND IT!!! jigs can crouch under it and rest you. Dash attack is also very unsafe. Use these moves wisely if at all.

After 80% its time to wrap it up.

As far as stages go play gay. RC allows to escape the pressure of her back air for a large amount of time while beaing able to aggrivate her with needles and aerials as well as a really low celling. Kongo jungle 64 allows you to recover in multiple ways and play the hit and run game very well. (PockyD mentions this)
Here are some vids and stuff
Nicaboy sheik vs hungrybox puff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37mIuLVIqw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPZ2qIg4Fk&feature=related

Drephen is really good vs puff
Drephen shiek vs Sliq puff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVFnSesuD5I&NR=1

Read da sig kiddes altough its probably not true lmao. Anyway hope i helped.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Information is good.

I'll read it later.

 

[Spife]

get on a platform and toss sewing equipment from the air.

Made me lol
getting under her sounds sane though, I'll try and remember to try that next time

 

[soap]

at smym last week, jiggs misses rest. i charge needles, go for sh needles to grab, jiggs still ducks my grab and then rests me for real

it was a pretty gamebreaking rest too. i was sawdy face

 

[Charlesz]

That sucks, I've seen raistlin to that a lot.

 

[KirbyKaze]

What's gay is that you have a tiny window of error for needle grab to legitimately combo on a ducking Puff and you are required to hit more than one needle. You need, at minimum, two needles almost ground level to combo a grab. And then your grab timing needs to be spot on.

I hate Puff.

 

[Plairnkk]

dont even bother with it. just charge ur needles then grab them regularly. the extra 4% on the grab++the risk isnt worth the safety of just grabbing THEN having fully charged needles for when u want them

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ I cosign this.

If they don't DI away you can SHFFL falling Uair --> Uair at like 50 on Yoshi's Story and just KO them off the roof but they need to have terrible DI for that to work. It does slightly more damage than the grab (22-23% vs 21% assuming no stales on any moves), though, so it's still okay and most Jigglypuffs have atrocious DI so you can probably get away with it maybe. Timing is pretty strict for the falling Uair, since it needs to be strong and you have to have to hit pretty much ground level.

SHFFL Uair --> Bair/Nair does more damage than grab --> aerial. Because 26 is a bigger number than 21. Stops working at like 45 though and it doesn't work below 20 or so.

 

[Kira-]

^ falling upair to upair is a great idea

at least once to catch them off guard

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fear my smash nerdiness.

 

[SPAWN]

Wow, that's awesome.

So useful KK. Especially since I'm probably going to have to play Darc this weekend.