The Sheik Matchup Thread (read the OP noobs)

[nicaboy]

I love all the info being given. Im going to keep on reading so long as this thread stays up to date.

 

[Teczer0]

m2k advice - Hit falco, knock him down.

Then grab him 0932904923094328049238409234829034 2834times.

Then dsmash or something for the kill.

Or throw him off the stage, hit him then laugh.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Martha next? Because I hate that match, I don't do particularly badly in it, it's just **** annoying getting around his 9FD Grab range 'nd dirty great swingy sword, while all I've got is long legs.

Swords>Legs.

 

[Teczer0]

Ooooooh Sheik vs Marth

Fun match up .

gogogogogo KK

 

[soap]

easiest way to fight marth is needle camp.

get him to approach from the air

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you grab him you can do damage to him.

 

[soap]

i think we've officially run out of stuff to talk about

 

[Teczer0]

i think we've officially run out of stuff to talk about

>_>.

I think up of so much new shiek things every week. There is no way we as the sheik boards can't think up of new topics >_<.

 

[raychun1]

i disagree with plank(and vanz?); sheik v falco is ridiculously even. maybe more even than marth v fox bc it's not really stage dependent. the only stage in question might be FD, but i don't think it's that bad vs the spacies. it depends on your style. against falco especially, no stage really gives you a DISTINCT advantage against him. BF, FOD, and yoshi's can all become good falco stages if done right. pokemon stadium is fine for sheik too. it is not stage dependent.

i've done the matchup from both ways for years(don't be fooled by the join date). it's not easy for falco to kill sheik at all. what move does he have that can kill? lucky f-smash? even the dsmash can't kill you until 90. out of all the moves i've been killed with from falco, the most has been either f-smash or up-air. both require really high percent with good DI. bair is unreliable for consistent kills

i seriously think it's dead even, but i don't think many will agree. in fact, the only matchup among the top four that really isn't even IMO is sheik vs marth(which is basically 60-40). i think all the other top tier matchups are essentially to the point where the better player wins.

 

[soap]

falco edgeguards sheik pretty hard.

don't get pushed into corners by lasers

 

[SonuvaBeach]

i disagree with plank(and vanz?); sheik v falco is ridiculously even.

m2k posted up a few weeks ago his opinion after playing mangoo

sheik 1 grab can't lead to falco's death unless it's at the edge and then it's like a 40% chance of a KO imo. Same with marth grab at the edge vs falco around 40% chance of death.

I do not think sheik loses to fox at all I think it's 50/50. Sheik does worse vs falco, because she can't hit falco out of his attacks easier and is more limited in approaching cuz of lasers and falco's super big always-lasting-hitbox Dair.

i used to think it was easy, but falco can just camp limiting sheik to either powersheild or full jump where he gets hit. Marth has the same problem.

I think it's either even or in falcos favor, for both of those characters. However, if falco has the advantage, it's no more than 55. Right now I think its like 50/55ish or something around there personally. Maybe I just have an easier time with Fox in general. Fox is just easy for me, even the best ones, at this point.

Found it! Basically, good falcos limit sheiks movement options.

 

[raychun1]

lol, m2k also said it's 55% falco's advantage at WORST. that's not quite a counter. plus, i'll always have more trouble against fox than falco. i think fox does better against sheik than falco does, but m2k disagrees with that too. m2k probably has trouble against falco in general.

to me it's dead even. both sides have really nasty things to each other.

 

[Finch]

please do marth next asdf

 

[SonuvaBeach]

lol, m2k also said it's 55% falco's advantage at WORST. that's not quite a counter. plus, i'll always have more trouble against fox than falco. i think fox does better against sheik than falco does, but m2k disagrees with that too. m2k probably has trouble against falco in general.

to me it's dead even. both sides have really nasty things to each other.

Yeah. I didn't say an opinion or anything about a counter, I quoted m2k for your benefit. I have a easier time with fox than falco. No lasers = heaven.

 

[KirbyKaze]

please do marth next asdf

I work full time but I'll maybe do something this weekend.

It's mostly just camping until he does something and then counter-attacking / attacking based on how he's attacking you / defending.

If he's mostly ground with D-tilt and dash dance grabs and whatever then chuck needles to disrupt him. dash dance boost grab him, dash dance grab him, or just do aerials. He can't U-tilt during dash dance unless they have pivot U-tilts down (which I have never seen Marth do) so I usually just do aerials because they're lagless and hard to dash dance grab because Sheik's duck is awesome.

If they're stationary or doing mostly WD back stuff, don't do aerials. Because of U-tilt. Do ground stuff.

If they do aerials, just dash dance grab or dash dance dash attack underneath them or something. Sheik's dash attack is above her by a surprising amount, so you can punish Marth SHFFLs pretty well with it. Most of his aerials don't cover his feet or they take a while to reach that swing down. You can also do aerials if you think he'll just Fair, Sheik's aerials don't have that annoying arc that adds "startup" time so you can just outclass him there if you can get close enough quickly.

Basically don't let him be at far-spacing and sort of sticking to him is an okay idea once you get inside because your close range is better. You also win a camping war so it's not unreasonable to do so. Don't F-tilt his shield, or in general. D-throw --> regrab is better than D-throw F-tilt if he di away.

 

[soap]

I work full time but I'll maybe do something this weekend.

It's mostly just camping until he does something and then counter-attacking / attacking based on how he's attacking you / defending.

If he's mostly ground with D-tilt and dash dance grabs and whatever then chuck needles to disrupt him. dash dance boost grab him, dash dance grab him, or just do aerials. He can't U-tilt during dash dance unless they have pivot U-tilts down (which I have never seen Marth do) so I usually just do aerials because they're lagless and hard to dash dance grab because Sheik's duck is awesome.

If they're stationary or doing mostly WD back stuff, don't do aerials. Because of U-tilt. Do ground stuff.

If they do aerials, just dash dance grab or dash dance dash attack underneath them or something. Sheik's dash attack is above her by a surprising amount, so you can punish Marth SHFFLs pretty well with it. Most of his aerials don't cover his feet or they take a while to reach that swing down. You can also do aerials if you think he'll just Fair, Sheik's aerials don't have that annoying arc that adds "startup" time so you can just outclass him there if you can get close enough quickly.

Basically don't let him be at far-spacing and sort of sticking to him is an okay idea once you get inside because your close range is better. You also win a camping war so it's not unreasonable to do so. Don't F-tilt his shield, or in general. D-throw --> regrab is better than D-throw F-tilt if he di away.

nice. that was very succinct and informative.

only thing i would add is to alot of grounded needle store fakeouts once they start jumping or waveshielding around the needles

 

[LEEEOOOOO]

Sheik v. Marth

Sheik's downthrow wrecks Marth. If you're playing all but the best Marths, you will be able to chaingrab at least a few times. Depending on how they DI, you can ftilt, upsmash, regrab, etc, etc. Spam needles to destroy Marth's spacing. Dash attack PAST marth so that you don't get shield grabbed. NEVER approach with an aerial unless you're sure you can lcancel and land BEHIND marth. You will get shield grabbed. Learn to sidestep Marth's moves.

 

[Teczer0]

Sheik v. Marth

Sheik's downthrow wrecks Marth. If you're playing all but the best Marths, you will be able to chaingrab at least a few times. Depending on how they DI, you can ftilt, upsmash, regrab, etc, etc. Spam needles to destroy Marth's spacing. Dash attack PAST marth so that you don't get shield grabbed. NEVER approach with an aerial unless you're sure you can lcancel and land BEHIND marth. You will get shield grabbed. Learn to sidestep Marth's moves.

Most people know to DI behind Sheik. Even if they don't, they would get CGed for like 2 grabs then just try something else.

Also most good marths probably won't let you get behind them with zoning and all.

Dash attacking is probably possible, but doing an aerial and landing behind marth sounds pretty hard.

I personally disagree with learning to sidestep, I usually sidestep outta instinct. Its pretty difficult to tell yourself when to sidestep what move.

You're setting yourself up to be read if you rely on sidesteps.

 

[soap]

drephen told me he sidesteps on reaction.

cuz i would try to vary the timing on certain marth stuff with delays and charges and what not, but he just like waits for moves and dash dances and reacts to them with sidesteps.

i don't know how to punish him without a sheik dsmash or a fox shine

 

[ajw tko]

I have a friend who uses samus and manages to kill me every time. I know shiek matches up favorably to samus but I can't seem to do anything. It might just be that he's better than me, but any tips would be much appreciated.

 

[Afro_Chris]

KK posting:

Whether you aggro Samus or camp her (needles too good) is entirely up to you, I think being offensive is better now but they're both really, really good.

Either way, just space an aerial (Fair or Bair) and then shield. If she D-smashes your shield, you WD OoS into grab or D-smash and punish. If she does nothing, you do it again or WD back depending on spacing and stuff.

Don't space bad and be Up+Bed if you attack her shield. Her shield-grab is slow and if you jump you will never be hit by it. For this reason most Samus try to sidestep or WD on ranged pokes so just remember this and be patient when pressuring.

Approaching with shield is better than usual because of her slow / bad shield-grab.

Don't tilt at her crouch. Or jab at her crouch.

And don't jump into the ****.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I have a friend who uses samus and manages to kill me every time. I know shiek matches up favorably to samus but I can't seem to do anything. It might just be that he's better than me, but any tips would be much appreciated.

The basics are essential vs Samus.
By that I mean, Needle is better than all projectiles, including fully charged shot.
Grab --> tilts, Fair.
Tilts.

When he is recovering destroy him with needles. Snipe out his bombs, and if he tries to grapple needle him to knock him off, or drop DJ nair back up if your feeling risky.

 

[ajw tko]

ty I played today and kicked his butt. It was amazing...

 

[SonuvaBeach]

KK where you at?! More guide please!

Even if you did a paragraph a night it would be done reall soon.

Really though - I just <3 your sheik and your informative posts.

 

[soap]

do the luigi matchup.

i find that one super annoying.

i get comboed hard because i cant DI, then they edgehog and shoryuken me.

luigi just slides in and ftilts, usmashes, dsmashes me and it goes through my moves alot, what is the best way to space this guy out. (without using needles lol)

 

[nicaboy]

Hey do one on peach. Peach is a dumb charcter lolz.

 

[earthadept]

The basics are essential vs Samus.
By that I mean, Needle is better than all projectiles, including fully charged shot.
Grab --> tilts, Fair.
Tilts.

When he is recovering destroy him with needles. Snipe out his bombs, and if he tries to grapple needle him to knock him off, or drop DJ nair back up if your feeling risky.

lol I do the nair every single time. I find since samus is so floaty, it's pretty easy to hit more than one fair in a row after a fair-setup (like ftilt, dtilt, etc.)

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Hey do one on peach. Peach is a dumb charcter lolz.

x2. Peach and Falco are by far my hardest matchups. Peach's pressure and downsmash. And great edgeguard. Gayyy

 

[soap]

lol I do the nair every single time. I find since samus is so floaty, it's pretty easy to hit more than one fair in a row after a fair-setup (like ftilt, dtilt, etc.)

this markloo guy is a sig factory

 

[earthadept]

too bad he sucks. jk jk <3

 

[Tero.]

Hey do one on peach. Peach is a dumb charcter lolz.

Needles, space Bair and Fair, grab, dthrow, stuff.
Good games.

lol I do the nair every single time. I find since samus is so floaty, it's pretty easy to hit more than one fair in a row after a fair-setup (like ftilt, dtilt, etc.)

I love the Samus MU, it's by far my best with Sheik.
Space Fairs, get her offstage, eg w/ needles.
GG.

 

[Hazygoose]

x2. Peach and Falco are by far my hardest matchups. Peach's pressure and downsmash. And great edgeguard. Gayyy

space well and don't let her cc your tilts/dash attack and you shouldn't be getting hit by too many dsmashes. it just takes a lot of precision and care, like brain surgery :X idk if that's a good anology for fighting peach, but that's how it feels for me often. and as long as you are faster than her, she can't really apply pressure. spend less time waiting in your shield or trying to outspace her in her float and you won't feel half that pressure. better yet, she will have that pressure transfered to her. peach is more afraid of you than you are of her.

falco is one of the worst characters off the stage, and sadly your best tactic is probably going to be: get falco off as fast as possible and as low as possible. if you practice your needle angles, shorthop reverse needle-cancelling, ledgehop nairs, and DJ'ing backward to fair...you've pretty much killed a falco when you've knocked him off. also, needles are better than falco's lasers in most cases, unless he chases you trying to jump over him/uses platforms to splooge his red goo on your face. he can punish you more with them as well. however, even on FD where he would seemingly have an advantage, falco's laser's don't limit sheik like her needles limit him, even on the stage. he can CC a bunch of stuff she does at low percentages, i've even spaced a bair and been CC-shined regardless a couple of times, but other than that, she wins the spacing war by a large majority. so my advice is pretty much needle the crap out of him, space well, DI out of combos for your life, and get him off the stage ASAP.


that's all the general knowledge i have off the top of my head for those matchups. the other 2 competant melee players in oklahoma main those 2 characters (kos-mos and scud, respectively), so i find those to be my best matchups, conversely. additionally, i think sheik has a decent advantage over both characters.
also, i presented a wall-of-text and probably general, known data due to just smoking a ton, so i'd like to apologize if it was hard to read. hope it was helpful, though.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

That end to the post really ties the post together.

 

[Hazygoose]

i think the sig does a better job

 

[earthadept]

lmao that post was helping me out and totally legit and then I read the end. X_X

 

[Hazygoose]

don't worry, i'm legit. i might even play and write better this way. it's like popeye and spinach.

this thread is about sheik's matchup advice, not life/monetary advice, so feel free to listen to my posts

edit turned into next post :o

 

[KirbyKaze]

do the luigi matchup.

i find that one super annoying.

i get comboed hard because i cant DI, then they edgehog and shoryuken me.

luigi just slides in and ftilts, usmashes, dsmashes me and it goes through my moves alot, what is the best way to space this guy out. (without using needles lol)

Space aerials from platforms, and force Luigi to attack into your platform game. Luigi's ground game is excellent, his air game is not.

If you're playing ground, you can't punish his F-tilt from shield unless he misspaces but it's easy to misspace with that F-tilt because of how much Luigi slides when he does WD --> F-tilt. You can, as always, CC --> grab his F-tilt and then do Sheik stuff. If you shield a D-smash, you can usually WD --> D-smash unless he's really well spaced. Other than that, just jump back a lot and Fair.

Learn to DI. His Nair is stupid so it won't make a difference much but his throws you DI behind him.

D-throw --> launcher --> Shield

They'll Nair 99.9% of the time if they don't know this strategy and then you just Shield grab the Nair. Later you have to do other stuff.

Against Peach just be as boring as possible and needle and space aerials (mostly Fair, but Nair and Bair are also important) and on the ground do mostly D-smash because all Peaches are stupid and sidestep or D-smash or Jab and they get away with it because they're Peach so just D-smash them. Peach sucks at punishing D-smash on block. It beats her Nair and Bair too so it's just good.

Do the same stuff you'd do vs Luigi after throw only it's different percents and kill her with D-throw Uair at like 105 - 112 depending on level except Dreamland which is like 130.

If you want to be aggressive, be passive aggressive. Be sort of close so they feel pressured into be stupid but not so close that you can be dash attacked, grabbed, D-smashed, or FC aerialed. If she pulls a turnip do dash attack.

If they're too close when they do FC Fair just hit them with SH Fair or whatever.

Don't depend on shield because Peach's existence is a mockery of the shield.

DI down when she edgeguards with edgehog --> D-smash and then DI the second hit up, it takes some practice but then she can't just edgehog --> D-smash and send you backwards and kill you at like 70, she has to edgeguard you just like everyone else with a strong move, just don't get tricked and DI Nairs badly if she starts countering this.

Needle --> grab is very useful.

If she hides underneath a platform, don't do aerials because she will **** your aerials, just throw needles or walk towards her and see if she'll get scared. If she floats under a platform over your needles, if it's Fair hit her before it comes out, otherwise your SH Fair / Bair will trump her Nair / Bair.

 

[Hazygoose]

i just edited my post with this before you posted...so reposting in case you missed it:
i was thinking about turning each post (meaning final draft of character matchups as written in the OP) into videos, now that i have my laptop fixed. would you mind at all, KK, if i did that?

edit: spelling

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sure, I don't really mind at all, a lot of people are better visual-learners anyway.

edit: I'm not going to do Ice Climbers because I don't play that matchup and all I'm going to say is "Jump back and Fair, run around on platforms, do needles".

edit2: These are largely half-baked but they're just what I do in matchup and some basic information to use before I can start doing the indepth stuff again because of no time and other stuff and school starting again.

Falcon is a matter of either camping him with better range and low lag and high priority until you can hit him and kill him, or walking towards him doing F-tilt and D-tilt until he gets scared and attacks and then him dying.

Puff is largely composed of needles x99 and Fair x99 and other aerials x50, jabs x20, and D-smash x40. You can't grab her, so you have to do other moves to beat her, and since she's never on the ground except in duck you have to do aerials a lot and somehow space them better than Puff does in spite of Sheik's awful aerial mobility vs Puff's amazing aerial mobility. Fortunately she's fast on the ground and has needles.

Marios are easy, just do D-smash and grab a lot. F-tilt and aerials too, but basically they're just going to try to compete with your ground game because if they ever jump in you will **** them so they'll just do ground-stuff. So just out-ground-stuff them and you'll win.

 

[nicaboy]

kirbykaze is so good man. Thanks for the luigi info lol sheild after a tilt.