The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

[Praxis]

You seem like such a smart dude sometimes, but then you disappoint me with such horrible garbage...

I'll take that as a compliment, thanks

Dedede has a slight advantage against Snake, but Snake can camp like a homo and he actually lives to higher percent and does more damage per hit, so it's perfectly winnable.

So, he's already worse than Metaknight. xD

Falco doesn't have a chaingrab on Snake. Snake simply bans FD and blows himself up to 30% at the start of every stock or just stays on platforms until he's at ~30%. No more chaingrab. Now Falco must diminish kill moves like b-air and u-smash to do damage and even hit Snake and he has to work much harder to win. Snake wins on the ground easily and still maintains an advantage in living despite the ~30% handicap. Snake lives to 140-180% while Falco dies at 95-105% consistently.

Or, Falco goes gay and camps him to death. Snake has a difficult time approaching, and Falco can bat away his grenades with reflector or simply avoid them with his mobile camp game.

There's a reason DEHF consistently beats DSF's Snake.

Pikachu loses pretty badly without that CG... I don't know much about that match-up, but I'm thinking Snake has a way to stop that CG. Can he blow himself up to half that damage and avoid that CG? If so, it's even or still in his favour.

I've heard Pikachu thrown out as an even matchup before the CG was found. Snake can probably blow himself up a bit to avoid it. But I don't know much about it otherwise.

Olimar loses to Snake. Snake's f-tilt beats Olimar's grab because he doesn't have super armour on it. Once Snake d-throws Olimar, it's over unless the Snake messes up. Olimar's roll doesn't go anywhere.

Why would Olimar be within ftilt range? Perfect camping and all that jazz. Olimar will be doing pivot grabs when the Snake is inevitably forced to approach by the pikmin.

Marth loses to MK, Snake, Dedede, R.O.B., and DK.

Ahhh, forgot about DK. ROB I've heard inconsistent things about, some tell me even?

 

[stingers]

Marth - ROB is 50/50.

 

[choknater]

*shrug* xyro i just watched dsf's wario vs m2k, and the set was quite close.

 

[Anth0ny]

Squirtle beats everyone. That hack should be legal. I want to 2nd squirtle.

Seriously. Forget banning MK, we should look into allowing individual Pokemon LOL

 

[Inui]

LMAO Inui you're an idiot

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229419

you post some small *** tourney that mk's didn't **** in instead of posting the HUGE AS **** tourney that happened the same day LMAO

No, you're the idiot, lol.

Mew2King = better than everyone else there.
Dojo = better than everyone else there besides Mew2King.
DSF = top class player that's the best on the West Coast and ***** with many characters.
Lee Martin = top class player that's probably the best Lucario.

These people that used MK were better than the other players.

CO18 scored 5th with Dedede, btw.

Many extremely good non-MK mains that typically slay top MKs, like Atomsk, Azen, NinjaLink, ADHD, and ChuDat weren't even there. Almost every top MK in the nation was at WHOBO.

It's such an unfair tournament to use as an example.

Or, Falco goes gay and camps him to death. Snake has a difficult time approaching, and Falco can bat away his grenades with reflector or simply avoid them with his mobile camp game.

There's a reason DEHF consistently beats DSF's Snake.

You do realize that Falco's "laser laser laser laser PREDICTABLE FORWARD B" stuff is really easy to punish with Snake due to his gigantic f-tilt, pivot grabs, and his dash attack, right? Both characters struggle to approach each other, but Snake is better at it and lives much longer.

That reason is that DSF isn't that good at the match-up yet and DSF doesn't have enough confidence in his Snake for some reason. I noticed it at WHOBO.

Why would Olimar be within ftilt range? Perfect camping and all that jazz. Olimar will be doing pivot grabs when the Snake is inevitably forced to approach by the pikmin.

Perfect camping, sadly, doesn't happen, or else Olimar would always take first.

Snake isn't forced to approach. What's the difference between a Snake at 400% from eating Pikmin and an Olimar at 130% from eating grenades? Nothing. Snake can take the damage and ignore it because his KO moves are so easy to hit and he can KO from much farther away.

The stage doesn't last forever, so Olimar will eventually be forced to the edge while running away. That's when Snake can act.

Ahhh, forgot about DK. ROB I've heard inconsistent things about, some tell me even?

I have never thought it was even. NEO never even took a game from NinjaLink's ROB from what I've seen and heard. The camping is just too gay and ROB lives too long.

 

[CO18]

Yeah whobo was the way it is cuz of so many good players that mained mk.
you had the best player in the world(m2k), probably the 2nd/3rdbest player in the us(dojo), best player on the west coast(dsf), lee only used mk vs me but hes one of the best in the nation and he used to main mk and it was close as hell. Tyrant's basically top 3 in the west coast. If like dehf and fiction came too from west coast or like anther from midwest/ alot of ec people like inui said like atomsk,azen,nl,adhd,afro,chu,snakee,reflex etc etc the results would prob be quite different

Mk is still annoying and all but hes def beatable and it is true his metagame has progressed more than anyones because of his ease of use. Only thing I mind is planking but I dont think theres any reason to ban mk as of yet.

Just make squirtle individual for another character to go evenish with mk! Hitstun in brawl right there 4 up airs a second.

 

[meepxzero]

wish i came to whobo. I want another crack at m2k!

 

[AvariceX]

It hasn't been mentioned recently, but before someone brings up the supposed advantage Pika has on Snake again I thought I should point out that Ally is now 3-0 vs Anther in tourney sets (GF at OiN4, WF+GF at C4 Galore <- that second one is recent and post-new-pika-cg).

 

[stingers]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204685 - Those lee and dojo guys are pretty darn good without mk

 

[Spin-Dash]

Screw it, banning or not banning MK, I'll just keep playing and beat them as they come.

... The keyword that has yet to be said by me is. Eventually.

LMAO Just gotta keep on trying, as lame of an excuse to keep MK as it is.

 

[Xyro77]

*shrug* xyro i just watched dsf's wario vs m2k, and the set was quite close.

but he still didnt win.

meta still breaks the counter pick system. that alone should be looked at

 

[CR4SH]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204685 - Those lee and dojo guys are pretty darn good without mk

Because lee mains meta....right?

Spoiler

NO

Edit: also, how much higher would dojo have been with his main? not to mention the other MKs that would have showed up and domintated, Infinity anyone? Nobody says that MK is what makes great players great, just that it makes the CP system useless.

It hasn't been mentioned recently, but before someone brings up the supposed advantage Pika has on Snake again I thought I should point out that Ally is now 3-0 vs Anther in tourney sets (GF at OiN4, WF+GF at C4 Galore <- that second one is recent and post-new-pika-cg).

I was 3 feet from that set. Ally straight outplayed anther. In fact, in the first couple games of winners finals, ally and anther went marthVs.pika. Anthers' pika took ally's marth to the cleaners. So much for character advantage. I didn't see anther use much (if any) of the dthrow buffer junk, but alot of fthrow to the edge->dthrow->regrab pummel-> fsmash about half of the time. Ally knows snake better than anther knows pika.

 

[stingers]

jesus christ you people get so defensive

i was being 5% serious with that post mr. cr4sh calm down

 

[Inui]

but he still didnt win.

meta still breaks the counter pick system. that alone should be looked at

Other instances of this:
-Eddie and Testament in Guilty Gear.
-Sagat and Seth in Street Fighter 4.
-Fox in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
-Pikachu in Super Smash Bros. 64.

Amount of talk with regards to banning those characters: 0.

 

[stingers]

did you say fox breaks the counterpick system in melee?

i don't know **** about those other games but you're an idiot man

 

[Xyro77]

Other instances of this:
-Eddie and Testament in Guilty Gear.
-Sagat and Seth in Street Fighter 4.
-Fox in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
-Pikachu in Super Smash Bros. 64.

Amount of talk with regards to banning those characters: 0.

since smash is 100% different than any other fighting game i will ignore that post.

however, you must realize this:



in melee an average decent sized/skilled tourney saw:

falcon/falco/marth/sheik/fox/peach

all of these characters COUNTERED each other and if not they could CP levels that made the match up a COUNTER. or at least produce a decent disadvantage to one of the chars.



In brawl we USUALLY see this:

meta/snake/falco/ddd/diddy/gw/rob

from snake all the way to rob you can all counter each other and if they dont you can use a CP level to make it a counter or at least produce a decent disadvantage to one of the chars.

now throw in metaknight. No matter the stage or char, he still has an advanatge or a "50/50" match up. So basiclly by allowing meta knight you are BREAKING the counter pick system.

 

[AvariceX]

did you say fox breaks the counterpick system in melee?

Or Seth in SF4? Sagat maybe, but definitely not Seth. Seth is good but he nowhere near breaks anything.

Oh yeah...I'm no expert on Melee either, but doesn't Falco have an advantage on Fox? (forgive me if I'm wrong here)

I really wish I could contribute more to the MK debate...actually I probably could but I'd rather let the better and more insightful players do that and just keep reading. I've always been against the MK ban, but at FFYF2 I played against an MK I had never heard of, lost, and felt that there was nothing I could do to avoid that loss; that he just couldn't be punished....so I don't know how I feel about this anymore.

Soooo yeah...if nothing else I appreciate all the discussion from the top players in here (M2K, OS, Inui and others).

 

[Inui]

since smash is 100% different than any other fighting game i will ignore that post.

It's not. This is coming from someone that actually understands high level play of other games and has many friends that are top players in other games. They even agree Smash and other games are very comparable.

Btw, I compared Brawl to the other Smash games in there.

I agree that MK is the safest choice to use in the game for tournaments and "breaks" the counterpick system, but I don't care about the counterpick system. No other fighting game does. They always have a "best" character, but people can win with others.

did you say fox breaks the counterpick system in melee?

i don't know **** about those other games but you're an idiot man

Fox doesn't have a bad match-up or a bad stage.

Or Seth in SF4? Sagat maybe, but definitely not Seth. Seth is good but he nowhere near breaks anything.

Seth doesn't really have bad match-ups and he goes 50/50 with Sagat.

Sagat definitely owns the "counterpick system."

Too bad no other game cares about such a system and they all laugh at us for caring about it.

 

[complexity1234]

since smash is 100% different than any other fighting game i will ignore that post.

notice the last 2 games he posted were smash melee and smash 64..
L2read.
That example was fine... he showed you that those characters can't be counter-picked in those games. Same ****.

In brawl we USUALLY see this:

meta/snake/falco/ddd/diddy/gw/rob

alot more characters can be added to that list, like olimar, pika, kirby, wario for example.
It just depends on how the player is playing that day, not character.

Take for example chudat. One of the few top kirbys, maybe only one at a given tournament. If he doesnt play great that day, then kirby will have almost no results. With metaknight, there are ALOT of good players that use him so there are better chances of him placing high.

did you say fox breaks the counterpick system in melee?

i don't know **** about those other games but you're an idiot man

then obviously u dont know much about melee in terms of counterpicking and fox..
he cant be counterpicked just like mk. He does fine against every character and stage in general.

Whobo had way too many good mk mains there and not enough representation of other characters.

And why does it matter about counter-picking. Who cares. What matters is - > can the character be beaten just fine by others? yes. ok then.

 

[Dekar173]

Why does everyone consider Inui a top player? He got 3 stocked by a Fox in a money match, eventually losing the set.

He whined and whined some more about SDing instead of congratulating his opponent on straight up outplaying him in brackets (I saw the match, you got beat, and that's that).

He doesn't understand MK is banworthy.



What says top player in any of this?



Genesis results will be similar to WHOBO, hopefully everyone will learn by then.



As for your claims of Sagat BREAKING the CP system, tell that to the Zangief who PERFECTED JUSTIN WONG'S SAGAT.

 

[Atomsk_92]

No they won't because DDD will have 2nd place and Genesis.

When will people realise that only 3 mk mains understand how to fight DDD. Everyother one does it wrong and loses to the best ones.

 

[Inui]

Why does everyone consider Inui a top player?

Probably because I do stuff like this a lot:

Doom's Smashfest, NJ, 1/24/09

Doubles:
1: Inui's Marth is Amazing (teh_spamerer and Inui)
2: HAT + NEO
3: dmbrandon + Ether
4: RJ + Munk
5: Izumi + ksizzle
5: ADHD + BlackWaltz
7: DK Smash + Vist
7: Pajama Bros. (Doom and Rhyme)
9: Umbra + bschung
9: Kai + Shippo
9: Ryan + Jinnobi
9: Orion + Bajisci

Bye
Defeated DK Smash + Vist, 2-0
Defeated ADHD + BlackWaltz, 2-0
Defeated dmbrandon + Ether, 3-1
Defeated HAT + NEO, 3-0


Singles:
1: Inui (Snake/Meta Knight)
2: teh_spamerer (Meta Knight)
3: NEO (Marth)
4: ksizzle (Meta Knight/Lucario)
5: Izumi (Meta Knight)
5: dmbrandon (Meta Knight)
7: ADHD (Diddy Kong)
7: BlackWaltz (Olimar)
9: Orion
9: HAT
9: Kai
9: Mrdc
13: Bajisci
13: DK Smash
13: PlanZ
13: theDoom
17: Scope
17: HEERO
17: Gunblade
17: Cyanide
17: Vist
17: HTS

Bye
Defeated Gunblade, 2-0
Defeated ADHD, 2-1
Defeated dmbrandon, 2-0
Defeated teh_spamerer, 3-1
Split with teh_spamerer


Facts > your stupid bias, random-ass nobody.

He got 3 stocked by a Fox in a money match, eventually losing the set.

Threestocked? What? I destroyed him the first game and then lost two very close ones.

I went Snake against a good Fox knowing I'd lose in order to just gain experience.

I would have wrecked him with MK or Marth.

He whined and whined some more about SDing instead of congratulating his opponent on straight up outplaying him in brackets (I saw the match, you got beat, and that's that).

Melee1 himself admitted he only won because I SDed.

Your opinion on the matter isn't needed if both of us agree I would have won otherwise.

He doesn't understand MK is banworthy.

He isn't.

What says top player in any of this?

Results and facts > your stupid worthless opinion.

As for your claims of Sagat BREAKING the CP system, tell that to the Zangief who PERFECTED JUSTIN WONG'S SAGAT.

Justin told me about that.

Stuff happens.

Sagat still wins the match-up.

 

[Master Raven]

MK players sure love to swarm Texas.

 

[Atomsk_92]

I love when worthless nobodys believe that their opinions can beat out actual facts.

 

[Xyro77]

notice the last 2 games he posted were smash melee and smash 64..

use common sense. i was talkin about the other games.

alot more characters can be added to that list, like olimar, pika, kirby, wario for example.
It just depends on how the player is playing that day, not character.

on average the characters i listed show up the most. character does matter. it always has.

then obviously u dont know much about melee in terms of counterpicking and fox..
he cant be counterpicked just like mk. He does fine against every character and stage in general.

your stupid. play xelic(peach) on mute city or brinstar or dreamland and them come talk. chain grab and GROSS down smash ***** fox. hell throw a marth in there and fox is a goner. fox is not even CLOSE to being as bad as metaknight.

I agree that MK is the safest choice to use in the game for tournaments and "breaks" the counterpick system, but I don't care about the counterpick system. No other fighting game does. They always have a "best" character, but people can win with others.

yes but again smash is WAY different. we have character Cps and stage CPs.

Fox doesn't have a bad match-up or a bad stage.

again, completly wrong. reasons are above.

 

[Dekar173]

I'd have liked it if you would have actually accepted a money match or even just played some friendlies at WHOBO. Instead, you sat on your *** and ate pocky.

I'm the worthless nobody who 2-0'd Lee Martin, and who afterward OFFERED HIM A MONEY MATCH which he declined.

 

[complexity1234]

As for your claims of Sagat BREAKING the CP system, tell that to the Zangief who PERFECTED JUSTIN WONG'S SAGAT.

sagat can be beaten just like mk. zangeif is a good character...............


and i just said you have to account for player skill...

 

[h1roshi]

as gay as MK is, he should NOT be banned. it isn't THAT serious. and i hate MK with a passion. so i agree with this.

-hiro

 

[Xyro77]

sagat can be beaten just like mk. zangeif is a good character...............

Proof of that match?

to further prove this.

a world HOBO this weekend. justin wong got "perfect" by a zang. he was sagat

 

[Red Arremer]

I'd have liked it if you would have actually accepted a money match or even just played some friendlies at WHOBO. Instead, you sat on your *** and ate pocky.

Hahaha, wow, that's funny, man. He maybe took a break because he just had played or something? If he doesn't want to play a MM, he doesn't want to. Bad luck, try next time. Just because he declined it doesn't mean you have to go in here and blatantly try to rip him a new one.

 

[Inui]

I'd have liked it if you would have actually accepted a money match or even just played some friendlies at WHOBO. Instead, you sat on your *** and ate pocky.

I'm the worthless nobody who 2-0'd Lee Martin, and who afterward OFFERED HIM A MONEY MATCH which he declined.

Sorry, but I don't like playing friendlies or MMs during tournaments. I keep myself focused on just the tournament and that's it. If you take offense to that, it's your problem, not mine.

lol @ 2-0ing Lee Martin in pools when he probably didn't care. Did you notice the "33" next to your name and the "4" next to his in the results? One fluke win doesn't make you somebody. I've consistently taken out world class players in singles and teams, making me obviously a top player. You disagreeing with that fact doesn't make it untrue.

 

[Dekar173]

sagat can be beaten just like mk. zangeif is a good character...............


and i just said you have to account for player skill...

It happened at WHOBO.



Inui I'd have a lot more respect for you if you weren't such an elitist douche both online and in person.

If you truly thought yourself such a high caliber player, maybe you'd have just accepted some money matches and taken my money?

It was after the tournament dip****. Your logic is almost that of the average female, holy crap.

As for Lee Martin not caring, why did he ***** and moan to no end?



Also, you tell me you don't like playing MMs during tourney...but you MMed the little kid (thinking you'd take his money) and in turn lost. I'm still not getting your argument.

 

[complexity1234]

to further prove this.

a world HOBO this weekend. justin wong got "perfect" by a zang. he was sagat

so? one loss doesnt mean sagat has bad matchups.
MK and sagat can be outplayed.
Your evidence is amazing.. lol..

 

[Inui]

Inui I'd have a lot more respect for you if you weren't such an elitist douche both online and in person.

If you truly thought yourself such a high caliber player, maybe you'd have just accepted some money matches and taken my money?

It was after the tournament dip****. Your logic is almost that of the average female, holy crap.

Also, you tell me you don't like playing MMs during tourney...but you MMed the little kid (thinking you'd take his money) and in turn lost. I'm still not getting your argument.

Oh no, I didn't feel like playing a game I was tired of in order to take a dollar from a random player!

Get real. I don't need your respect. I have self-worth, not Dekar-worth.

That little kid had been wanting to MM me all day, and he was really nice and adorable, so I finally said yes, but I used Snake knowing I'd probably lose.

What, are you jealous that you weren't worthy of my attention? Shut up and move on. If you care so much, come to APEX and use some big numbers to get my attention.

 

[stingers]

if m2k got 3 stocked by xyro's samus, would we start thinking samus was an mk counter?

 

[complexity1234]

by these guy's logic, yes it would.

you know, basing everything off of one single match, hhahahha

 

[Red Arremer]

As for Lee Martin not caring, why did he ***** and moan to no end?

If I slip up playing against someone and therefore lose twice, I would ***** and moan to no end, too.

 

[Atomsk_92]

God i love nobodys. Not as cool as the ones from Kingdom Hearts 2 though

 

[Xyro77]

so? one loss doesnt mean sagat has bad matchups.
MK and sagat can be outplayed.
Your evidence is amazing.. lol..

maybe you didnt read my post. try it again and THINK about it, you MIGHT get it this time. but knowing how much of a moron you are, i doubt it.

poop face

 

[stingers]

omg kingdom hearts 2

when is the new one coming out