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The ROB Matchup Thread

Claire Diviner

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I think ZSS was next on our list... but who actually plays the MU? I've played it a little bit on wifi but the guy didn't even know the infinite.

As for Diddy I'm still solidly convinced that we win 55:45 at the LEAST, and I'm more comfortable saying we win 6:4. ROB has excellent control of a banana when he gets it and getting one isn't that hard hard. You can also place a spinning gyro on top of a banana and it makes it difficult for Diddy to pick it up and if you have possession of the banana he can't get it without getting hit by the gyro or tripping. Diddy can't touch us camping from far away, we BEAT him in the air, we OUTKILL him (how often do we get to say that), and gimping him isn't the easiest thing in the world but its still very possible.

If you have major issues with the bananas pick diddy up for a short time and learn the banana game.... its pretty much the same for ROB.
Wow, thanks a lot for the tip. I'll be sure to incorporate that knowledge the next time I fight that accursed monkey.

Also, I've played several Zamus MUs myself, but I knew my opponent didn't know how to handle her well, seeing as I managed to beat them with only modest difficulty. I wish I could play more pro Zamus smashers... especially offline to get a feel for the MU.
 

Heartstring

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well any exp is better than none.
we have a few ZSS's around, but i have yet to use r.o.b on them, sadly she will be very competent with items (including our own gyro) and wont be planning on letting us into her zone using her overpowered armour peices, i can also imagine we'll be getting juggles to hell and back with her godlike u-air, the only thing going for us is the fact that she'l have trouble landing her dsmash thats so vital for killing in hre current metagame.
about 40:60 or 45:55 i reckon
 

CJTHeroofTime

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I'm actually just gonna spew a bunch of my random thoughts on the matchup.
Umm, it's actually a lot easier for her to land her d-smash then you think. This is mainly due to our obnoxiously large frame and the bizarre hitbox of the d-smash. Beware when she's above you on platforms or above you on the ledge, because the hitbox goes through platforms. If you're standing beneath it, it can poke your shield too. Also, unless you powershield the d-smash, dont try to punish it after it hits your shield, she can whip out another one faster than anything we can do to punish. If you do shield, I would suggest you retreat and return to camping. Also, watch your planking, because if you get hit by dsmash, thats a guaranteed down-b spike on us, and if we're high enough percentage (idk the exact range) then it will kill us.

I think ZSS's best shield pressure option is a short-hop towards(and over) us to bait the shield, then she hits us with u-air as soon as we drop it. If you find her doing that, predict with u-tilt, which is usually good for a few juggles.

If you do grab some of her armor at the start of the match, I think the most productive use is retreating glide toss smash throw downwards (or just a straight up smash thrown down if you're already in a decent position) as it bounces up and down for a while, offering us some protection from her approaches. If she tries to catch it, she will have to do so mid-air, so punish her for it! When it's bounce starts to decrease, catch it and repeat. Also, on yoshi's island and other slanted stages, glide toss downwards can be used offensively, as the slants cause the armor to bounce at weird angles, offering you cover if you decide to approach (which may or may not be a bad idea). Also, if you have the armor in hand, shooting off the gyro into the middle of the stage (between yourself and ZSS) is a great idea, bc sometimes ZSS, thinking that they're better with items, might try and get the gyro. Between the spinning of the gyro and your harassment with lasers, you will find openings to foward throw glide toss the armor piece at her. In this case, if the armor is still fresh, I will try and catch the armor after the throw and then return back to camping, if not, follow up the same way you would try to with any glide toss.

If you mix up your edgeguarding, a surprise run offstage>FF fair can lead to an easy gimp if she gets comfortable recovering. Just be careful with how aggressive you get with edgeguarding, if she uses her down-b, she can just hold the jump button and it will automatically footstool you the first chance it gets, which is basically a free return to stage for ZSS, and it also gives her the chance to edgeguard you.

Side-b is ridiculously easy for ZSS to sweetspot on us due to our massive frame. If for some reason she sourspots it, chances are (without sdi, idk if you can sdi it) you will be knocked into the sweetspot anyway. Watch out for side-b if you chase her offstage while shes in the blast zone, she loves to use this when you cant see her during the startup frames. Also, if you're chasing her, she can easily pull out a wavebounce side-b (or even neutral b for that matter) so watch out.

When you are being juggled, your best bet is to utilize bair and up-b to move around so you are not above her. Our low mobility makes this difficult, however, and more often than not, you will find yourself trying to return to the stage with her below you. In this situation, ZSS holds all the cards and you are pretty much forced to guess ( try and predict based on the way she reacts, chances are you will be juggled a lot and will have many chances to see what she does). Basically, I'll go through each of our options and explain when they do and dont work:
Air dodge- Air dodge only works if the ZSS is out of position or mis-times your fall speed. Her uair is fast enough so that she can uair you right after you come out of your air dodge after successfully avoiding the first uair. Also, her forward air can punish the air dodge with little prediction, and with a little more prediction, she can bair us after the airdodge, which is bad if we're at higher percentages.
Nair- Nair works if we start it early enough that we dont get interrupted during startup frames by her uair, the only problem is, if we are high enough above her that we're safe from uair, that means we're most likely in perfect range of her up-b. If the hitbox of nair hits her up b, then we're safe from the up-b, and if we fastfalled the nair we can usually hit her during the end frames of the up-b.
Bair- This doesn't usually work ever. Basically, it pauses us in mid air without anything below us to protect us... its just asking to get u-aired. I do use it to try and position myself better, but thats only if Im high enough above her where i dont have to worry about her uair. I think that if timed right (and on the right side) the hitbox cancels out ZSS's up-B.
Fair- I dont remember how it goes when you use this, I assume it depends on positioning and such.
Dair- lulz ensue.
Just do your best to avoid her until you touch ground. Throw in wavebounces or whatever to get her off your case. Sometimes, (more often than not) your best bet is to fly over to the side of the stage and recover to the ledge. In this case, just watch out for blasters and side-b's (and the occasional ballsy offstage approach).

uhhh thats all i got right now, feel free to comment on any of that, like I said its been a while since I actually played a ZSS
 

ccst

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This MU is very dangerous, but I would say 40:60 R.O.B.. She can juggle us like crazy and one D-smash means one stock. I'm even willing to call this 35:65 but that's maybe too exaggerate.
 

Heartstring

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not THAT bad, there is the minor fact shell be there forever trying to kill us providing we stay away, she lacks a proper projectile outside of armour peices
 

sneakytako

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I play Y.b.M.'s ZSS all the time, so I know this MU pretty well:

ZSS has three main weakness's we can exploit. The most obvious one is her recovery. While it's not terrible she has pretty poor horizontal recovery, and her tethers make her vulnerable while she's hanging. So to punish her recovery you need to first prevent her from coming back to the stage with her down-b, then punish her after she uses side-b/up-b to tether. So hover around ground level as she recovers from a distance, then drop down and bair her as she tethers.

Her other two weaknesses are her poor grab/shieldgrab and her lack of shield pressure. These two in conjunction allows you to safely approach with shield. If you shield a side-b, creep up and try to shield the next thing she does, which will probably be either another side-b, a neutra-b, or a d-smash. When you shield an attack close enough to her, punish her with a grab or a SH fair.

Avoid getting D-smashed at all costs. The footstool infinite pretty easy to do, but not all ZSS know it/took the time to learn it. But eating a dsmashx2 bair/side-b is a pretty big chunk of damage, and it can kill us. Watch out for up-b while being above ZSS, she can combo into a dsmash into shenanigans.

Armor pieces can be pretty lame, they provide a pretty solid frame trap with neutral-b into glide toss. My advice is to get rid of them immediately, but if you want to harass your opponent then focus on glide tosses them down, then applying pressure and throwing them into the bouncing pieces.

For starter stages we want FD and SV. They offer plenty of space to camp and do nasty things to her. I would stay away from YI and PS1, walls and uneven ground don't really phase her game. BF is pretty good for her, but I wouldn't strike it first.

For CPs I would take her to either halberd or Frigate. Halberd's low ceiling makes her die really quickly, and sharking is always fun. Frigate ruins tether recoveries on the right side as we all probably know, hence it's amazing. I would ban Brinstar/Greengreens/Delphino against her, brinstar is particularly nasty with low platforms and things that extend her dsmash hitbox, GG is just lame, and most of delphino's transformations favor her with their weird shapes. Fighting on neutrals is also good :D.
 

Cubone

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Can't think of anything to add or anything to disagree with....

Biggest thing I think of in the MU is avoid the dsmash and everyone knows that at the least xD
 

-LzR-

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Dsmash is easy to avoid, noticeable animation and it's very slow. It has trandescent priority and huge range thought.
 

Heartstring

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dsmash isnt as easy to avoid as you originally think, decent zero suits find ways of trapping you into either taknig the first dsmash or taking another combo which then leads into anothert dsmash
jsut play keep away
 

ccst

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An example is glide-toss to D-smash, very scary.
 

Zwarm

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I've only played this MU a few times, but the best advice I can give is that most ZSS's like to throw a suit piece at us right away assuming we're gonna laser or gyro, so I usually just side B, it reflects the piece right back at them. ^_^

I hate this MU though, dsmash is a killer.
 

-LzR-

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When the match begins, focus entirely on getting rid of pieces. They are so **** powerful with great hitboxes and everything.
If you get a piece in your control, DO NOT THROW IT BACK, she will just jab it to cancel it and pick it up again.
Throw them off the stage.
I sometimes play Zamus, used to be my Robot secondary while he was still my biggest main. Now I play MK so I don't need a secondary so I play her less often. But anyways, I **** with the pieces, rack up at least 80% and try to keep my lead. I really can't approach with ZSS.
 

Heartstring

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oh we should use it, gyro is always valid ALWAYS. inface its probably best to use it as a barrier against bouncing armour peices
 

ccst

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Well, according the the Tier List we're discussing, it's: Kirby (since we discussed Toon Link).

I'm too lazy to summarize and stuff, so the ratio is 45:55 R.O.B..
 

Heartstring

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kirby got naff all on us, slower air speed (at top speed at least) short range, no projectile or reflector (unless he inhales us, which can be a problem) and easier to kill, if anything all he can do is kill a lot earlier and is **** hard to gimp. 60:40 r.o.b i say
 

Zwarm

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Lolololol. Ohhhhh Kirby discussion, this should be fun. I play this MU more than all of you combined, I'm sure. My ROB was raised on this MU. I'm not gonna go into huge details right now because I have stuff to do, but it's an even MU, imo. Air speed means nothing, he's hard to hit because he's small and in the air a lot, and he kills earlier than us. We can outcamp him, yes, but on smaller stages, we're screwed. He can get to our blind spots easily with his bair and uair, so avoid BF at all costs. Fsmash is a killer when we're trying to get back onstage, and since ROB's second jump doesn't auto snap the ledges, use up B to auto snap, or you're getting a down angled fsmash to the face (literally).

Yeah, I'll write more later, gotta go do stuff.
 

sneakytako

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Lolololol. Ohhhhh Kirby discussion, this should be fun. I play this MU more than all of you combined, I'm sure. My ROB was raised on this MU. I'm not gonna go into huge details right now because I have stuff to do, but it's an even MU, imo. Air speed means nothing, he's hard to hit because he's small and in the air a lot, and he kills earlier than us. We can outcamp him, yes, but on smaller stages, we're screwed. He can get to our blind spots easily with his bair and uair, so avoid BF at all costs. Fsmash is a killer when we're trying to get back onstage, and since ROB's second jump doesn't auto snap the ledges, use up B to auto snap, or you're getting a down angled fsmash to the face (literally).

Yeah, I'll write more later, gotta go do stuff.
IDK man, I play Y.b.M., one of the best kirby mains (self proclaimed) all the time. I actually played him today and I learned some new things about the MU. I'll write my summary later, too tired ATM.
 

Heartstring

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thers not much in the way of kirby over here, however i think how hard to find this depends on how agressive the kirby is, if its a defensive kirby (or more to the point, noe which only approaches when its really safe) then its a party, if hes more into close combat then its going to hurt a bit.
typically we'll be going to fd for our neutral of choice, with bf and yi being the worst stages, its likely that you will end up gonig to lylat/ps1 first game (unless you end up on smashville as always, sigh)
if he gets under, fly the **** away XD also his range is poor so n-air will make a killing in the air, as it outranges all of his aerials, but dear god watch the f-smash, its evil
 

ccst

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kirby got naff all on us, slower air speed (at top speed at least) short range, no projectile or reflector (unless he inhales us, which can be a problem) and easier to kill, if anything all he can do is kill a lot earlier and is **** hard to gimp. 60:40 r.o.b i say
You gotta be kidding me! D=
 

-LzR-

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Kidding about what? Please be more specific.
And mobility isn't an issue, neither can move in the air anyways.
 

-LzR-

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Reading DI says hi. Welcome to the awesome world of mindgames.
Also, never played this MU, I am the only Rob here and no one plays Kirby :)
 

Heartstring

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kirby's only thing thats guaranteed is fthrow>u-air or f-air, and the aerial can be DI'd easy, we can jump/AD everything else, although you do want to be wry of fthrow>hammer at low percentss, it hurts and you dotn see it often.
just space like a god, ftilt beats out everything he has and our f-air is literally like his b-air, simply enough
 

sneakytako

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Alright here's my thoughts on the Kirby MU:

The Fthrow combo at early percents is extremely dangerous. If you don't jump after the next u-air, he gets another grab into dthrow, where he will up-air again into more juggles. If he reads your jump he can fair you and either go for another fair or punish your landing. Treat this like the falco MU and camp early. It's pretty hard to hit kirby with lasers from the ground, I suggest getting to a safe distance and spamming lasers/gyros.

Once your at mid percents, treat this like the DK MU. He's looking for spaced Fsmashes and bairs. You can beat bair with nair/bair if you are 45 Degrees below or above him. Try to stay around that area. You might be vulnerable to fair but at higher percents it can't combo into itself, so just take it and prioritize landing safely against Fsmash and Bair. If you can take Fsmash/Bair/Hammer out of the equation, Kirby has a really hard time killing ROB. Be very wary when recovering from the ledge against Kirby, he will be looking for retreating Fsmashes. It's probably safest to recover high and bair spam when your behind him.

Avoid being below Kirby when he's in the air; his dair causes a lot of shield stun and is difficult to punish. If you can read his dair you can beat it with pivot grab, but it will leave you vulnerable to fast fall > Fsmash so be wary. You can also beat dair with upsmash, it might be a good risk to mix in dacus every once in a while. Don't over-commit with fair, he can zone out and hammer you if he gets a good read. Retreat when/after you fair. Kirby can WoP with Bair when hes above you and pressure your shield. Remember that he will want to jump as he's using bair, use this to get underneath kirby and retreat/upsmash if he's too close to the ground. I wouldn't advise challenging his bair with our fair, it doesn't always lose, but I seem to win those exchanges a lot less.

Nair is my favorite way to kill kirby, it can beat all of his aerials when spaced properly. (This is probably true about most MU lol). But retreating fsmash is really good when hes trying to approach us with a mindgame aerial hammer and such. When hes on the edge, spamming SH nair is really good. It beats his up-B when your above him, and we can jump over the wave if he decides to get back on stage. If he decides he wants to plank, approach with nair spam and bair/nair him below the stage for a stage spike.

Jab is not as good in this MU, his Fsmash goes right through it, it makes me cry often lol. Be wary when your playing the midrange-ground-poking game.

I seem to say 'be wary' a lot in my write up, because it's really true. This MU on paper is totally in our favor, most of our attacks can out space/prioritize his moves. But Kirby can kill you really early for a mis-read, so it's a very stressful MU. But if you stay patient and stay safe this MU is in our favor. But on the flipside if you get mad and lose your cool/get complacent it can turn real ugly in a heartbeat. Be mentally prepared to play perfect before the match IMO. I tend to punish his lag with ftilt mostly, because its just safer to do so.

FD is our best starter like usual, we can out camp him easily. If he sucks you in for our laser be ready to dair out of his swallow, it's guaranteed, and follow up with a upsmash/grab. SV is pretty good too, but his bair is really good on the moving platform so be careful. Tilting stages don't hurt kirby at all, so they probably want YI, so I would strike that, not to mention it has a higher ceiling. On the other hand the tilting ledge of Lylat can gimp kirby so you may want to save that in case that's a starter. PS1's ledge is also goofy and uncomfortable for kirby, so that's also an option. BF is in his favor imo, so I would strike that.

BAN BRINSTAR! The tiny stage makes his kill moves even more awesome, they love that stage. They also like japes but most will be wary to play a campfest game against us, but you might want to practice that stage just in case. We want to take them to the usual halberd, but I wouldn't CP frigate. Kirby's recovery is decent enough to not really hurt him on that stage, and the high ceiling doesn't work in our favor. If they ban halberd I suggest FD, but play on a stage that you feel comfortable on, remember that his kill moves are scary and we want to have as much control as possible, so we don't get caught with our pants down.
 

CT Chia

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I would say Kirby is no worse than even for ROB. Kirby is relatively easy to kill, and fighting off stage isn't that terrible if you know what the Kirby is trying to fish for you to do. Kirby has some decent strengths and can abuse ROB's lack of AD out of upB, but ROB makes up for great spacing and kill ability.
I have a replay saved of a MM with Chu from last weekend I'm trying to get my hands on. I lost again (0-2 with him in MMs recently) but I 2 stocked him game 2 on Halberd this time around and really displayed great play of the matchup. The platform sets up perfect for usmash kills which gets Kirby at around 90ish %. I would probably ban Delfino of all stages, I honestly can't imagine Brinstar being that bad.
 

Zwarm

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Brinstar's pretty bad for me whenever I play against Kappy, but he probably knows the stage better than I do. He never counterpicks to anywhere but neutrals or Brinstar, so I'd ban Brinstar against him personally, but yeah, I can see how Delfino could be bad for us against Kirby.
 

sneakytako

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I feel like Delphino hurts you especially since it has fewer ledges chibo lol.

I feel that brinstar is bad in the kirby MU for a couple reasons. The horizontal blast zones are ridiculously close, but I guess not as close as walkoffs. The rising lava forces you to jump into the air, where you can be vulnerable to kirby's bair. I really don't like challenging him in the air without footing I can rely on. The uneven ground hurts us in a couple ways, including making it more difficult to punish his landing lag on aerials. The grounded gyro seems less useful, and the lava can keep our gyro out of use if it gets juggled. There's lots of things that extend his hitbox, making it even more difficult to punish him. There isn't really enough space to gimp kirby unless he falls for a bair. I feel like my SH nair shenanigans don't work nearly as well due to uneven ground and extended hitboxes. I feel like there's more but that's all I can come up with right now.

I'll be looking forward to seeing those vids chibo :D.
 

CT Chia

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The constant hollow stage helps a lot though

Delfino is also hollow but not all the time and walk off blast zones and water are soooo bad

and there are tooons of ledges on Delfino :)
 
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