The ROB Matchup Thread

[TheMike]

The R.O.B. Matchup Thread

Contents

1. Introduction
2. Ratios
3. Matchup Chart
4. Matchup Analysis


1. Introduction

These boards need some matchup discussions. Therefore, I made this thread and will be updating it. All the discussions will be done in here, and we will be following The Official Brawl Back Room Tier List v4 order. We will only finish a discussion with enough information. So, we can stay more than one week discussing one character, or less. Have fun.


2. Ratios

From Praxis' guide to matchup ratios:

50-50
Very even matchup. Definition should be fairly obvious.

55-45
No character has a true solid advantage, but one has seemingly better/easier tools,
or one character profits more from winning a rock/paper/scissors guessing game.

60-40
One character has clearly better tools in the matchup. However, the other character does have responses him, and the matchup is still winnable through outplaying the opponent
or out spacing his tools and countering with the weaker ones well placed.

65-35
One character has options that shut down the other's options. Counterpicking should be considered, but it's not completely unwinnable, but rather simply requires one player to far outplay the other.

70-30
Something about the character in the advantage completely shuts down
the other character. Counterpicking is heavily recommended -
or rely on them not knowing the matchup and you knowing it incredibly well.

Anything past 70-30
Pretty much unwinnable matchups like Dedede vs Donkey Kong.


3. Matchup Chart

Image by the Brazilian designer called Jãojão


Very big disadvantage: 70-30+
Big disadvantage: 65-35
Disadvantage: 60-40
Small disadvantage: 55-45
Even: 50-50
Small advantage: 55-45
Advantage: 60-40
Big advantage: 65-35
Very big advantage: 70-30+


4. Matchup Analysis

Meta Knight

ROB 35-65 Meta Knight​

[collapse=Summary]This matchup is hard. Meta Knight wins in the air, on the ground and off stage. He can easily gimp ROB, and that's very bad. Meta Knight also has some great ploys to juggle him, such as multiple Uairs, Dthrow(> Fair/Tornado), Ftilt and Tornado-ing. Learning how to avoid the latter is very important:

FSmash from the side. Laser from wherever you can hit it. Gyro with half charge. NAir from above (only the first and last parts of the hitbox). FAir from -just- above and to the side of the nado (Aka you just SDI'd out). BAir in a similar situation as FAir.

Really though, the only way to hit a smart MK in nado is to let it hit you then SDI and F/N/BAir.

A smart MK will nado too close for you to reaction laser/gyro/fsmash and won't let anyone get above the center of the tornado if it's the best position for that character to knock the MK out of his tornado (like it is for us, well...slightly to the side of the center, but yeah). That leaves us with BAir, NAir, and FAir from above.

FAir: Risky, hard to hit, least damage of the three.
NAir: Risky, hard to hit space since it has a lot of start-up lag and MK can move so you hit the side of the top (and thus get pulled in) or just rise to hit you before the hitbox comes out/while the hitbox isn't at the bottom of ROB.
BAir: Slightly better version of FAir as far as it's usage against nado is concerned.


Sooooo, you'rre looking at NAir, but even that isn't too good. I prolly missed some situational/silly ones, but that's what I got for you.

ROB needs to camp well. Meta Knight will approach, obviously, and it isn't easy to avoid his approaching attemps because he has great moves for so, such as Fair, Dash Attack and Tornado. What you need to do is use either angled Ftilts, or Bair. You won't get punished if you use the latter correctly. Killing is also a problem. Even Meta Knight being light, it's difficult because ROB isn't good at killing and Meta Knight has a great momentum canceling with Uair.

Grabs are really important. Dthrow can be followed by Uair. F/Bthow are useful to throw Meta Knight far from you. They can be followed by a laser, too. Learn how to punish Glide Attack. It has the same priority of ROB's Bair and Usmash, and it can be shielded, then use something OoS like Ftilt, Dsmash and Shield Grab. If you have a gyro in hands, Glide Toss away and throw it at Meta Kngih.

Up B is also a move that you should learn how to avoid:

On the ground we can't do anything to beat MK's Up B as it has invencibility frames. So, Power Shielding or even Spot dodging is the solution, but if MK could hit you, just try to skip from the Glide Attack that will probably follow it. If you get the PS or the Spot dodge, you can Jump rising an Uair, which will punish the Up B.


When he tries to hit you in the air you have three options:

A) Air Dodge
B) Perfect timming using Nair
C) Get hit

You're big, and will probably get hit by the Up B, but if not, after AD, I see Fast Falling > Shield as the best option, then try a Shield Grab if possible MK. If not, Ftilt OoS because its good range might punish him.

Don't forget ROB is a big target, and it isn't difficult to avoid only the Up B, but also most Meta Knight's moves, which helps him when juggling ROB. There's also something that I find worth posting: the frame data. Click here

Some robots posted interesting stuff on this thread, and as their posts were too long, quoting them wouldn't be the best idea. So, I'll just list them below:

Mizu's post
Tin Man's post
Fishy/Darth Waffles' post

You can find some good information about recoverying, edge guarding, how to play on certain ranges, etc. on those posts listed above.[/collapse]


[collapse=Stages to take him to]Best neutral stage is Battlefield. It sounds weird, but Battlefield's platforms help ROB when recoverying and avoiding juggles. Besides, they also allow him to land his U-x moves(Utilt/Usmash/Uair) easier.

platforms mean he has less room to chase you with (if he lands on a platform while trying to chase you, he has to deal with landing lag which while like 3 frames helps more then you'd think) which means that the mere presence of platforms means that there's less space MK can actually cover while trying to chase you while falling... MK isn't marth...he doesnt cover platforms with aerial mobility and large sweeping hitboxes, he just jumps around a lot and uairs where he thinks your gonna fall onto or tornados below you, which is a lot less dangerous...it's actually easier to get grounded against mk on bf then on final where he can just...watch you as you fall then be gay as hell and uair and cover your airdodge with tornado and piss you off.

and thats what makes the matchup, the fact ROB has no way to come back down :/ so anywhere that makes it easier = you want to be there

And best counterpick is Castle Siege. ROB can space pretty well by using Ftilt on the first transformation. The two platforms also help ROB landing Usmash, that has more knock back than Fsmash. Camp on the second transformation due to the fact of the laser going though the statues. ROB can also kill earlier from the side on this transformation with Bthow, Fsmash and Bair. And finally... camp on the third transformation, as usual.[/collapse]


[collapse=Stages to avoid]You should avoid Final Destination. Even having much space to camp, Meta Knight can keep you in the air very easy, racking up some good damage. Smashville isn't very good, either. There isn't much space and Meta Knight can scroog.

The main counterpick stages to avoid are Delfino Plaza and Rainbow Cruise. Meta Knight's air game is amazing, and he can make such a good use of this great advantage on Rainbow Cruise and Delfino Plaza. He can also shark on the latter by coming from the bottom rising Uairs/Tornado or using the Shuttle Loop.[/collapse]

Snake

ROB 45-55 Snake​

[collapse=Summary]The snake matchup isn't as good as it used to be. ROB's projectiles can be easily power shielded, and Snake has good out of shield options, making him able to approach safely, and since he is close to ROB, things turn more difficult. ROB still needs to camp though. The laser can explode the granades.

Snake has attacks with amazing hitboxes and ROB is a big target. He can also tech chase really well. ROB doesn't kill earlier, and Snake doesn't die ealier, either. Besides, he has amazing kill options.

So, shouldn't Snake be a hard ROB counter? If ROB didn't have an amazing off stage game, yes. And that's exactly the point. ROB should go off stage and rack up some good damage. But firstly you should try to camp, when Snake approaches, then go off stage.

Once hes off the stage thats your best opportunity to rack up damage, bait the airdoge out of his UpB and punish, don't get distracted by trying to spike him, just keep landing Fairs and knocking him out of his UpB.

Another thing ROB should try to do is juggling. It can also build up damage. And just as a side note, ROB can stop the granade's way by using either Gyro, Ftilt, or Bair.

Once again, read some amazing posts:

Tin Man's post
Ahvenas's post[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to take him to]Final Destination is the best neutral because ROB has enough space to camp and Snake cannot avoid ROB's juggles well. Among the counter pick stages, I would say Frigate Orpheon is the best, even with that low ceiling that makes Snake kill earlier than usual, but he can't handle ROB camping the moving platforms on the flip side of the stage. Besides, ROB's off stage game is pretty awesome.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to avoid]You should avoid Battlefield because Snake can have a great stage control if he knows how to use the platforms, which also help him when trying to avoid ROB's juggling attemps. You should also avoid Halberd because of the same reasons said for Battlefield plus the low ceiling.[/collapse]

Diddy Kong

ROB 55-45 Diddy Kong​

[collapse=Summary]ROB is really good when he has the control of the bananas. His glide toss is amazing and when Diddy trips, he can get a free Fsmash. So, abuse it! ROB's off stage game is also something that should be abused. He can gimp Diddy well due to his predictable recovery.

The main problem in this matchup is ROB's size. Diddy can make some insane combos resulting in a good amount of damage racked. Diddy most times use Utilt after Dash Attacking(he can also use no Dash Attack and simply Uthrow). This isn't good at all as ROB will be above him, which is the place he should never be.

Diddy can't have the control of the two bananas, try to avoid this. And killing isn't much of a problem since Diddy can't kill well either and ROB can still gimp.

I recommend you to read the following:

Trillest's post
Cubone's post
Sudai's post
Tin Man's post
ROB's Banana Drible(ChiboSempai's thread)
Anoher thread of ChiboSempai

They all go in more details and are worth reading. There is just something else I want say that is what I do at the beginning of matches against Diddy Kong. You know, they all start pulling a banana. I like to run and z-catch it before him instead of start the match with laser or gyro.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to take him to]Frigate Orpheon is always your friend. Diddy can be gimped easier than usual because of the weird ledge of this stage, and ROB can kill him with Usmash easier too due to the low ceiling and the platforms.

I would say Battlefield is a great choice among starters because sometimes the platforms aren't good friends of Diddy's banana game, and they can also help ROB avoiding juggles. Lylat is also very good. The irregular ground is as bad as Battlefield's platforms to Diddy Kong. Three platforms, low ceiling and irregular ground: that's all ROB wants.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to avoid]Final Destination is the one you should strike whenever you can. Diddy is very skillful with the bananas, and there is no platform for ROB to avoid juggles.[/collapse]

Falco

ROB 45-55 Falco​

[collapse=Summary]ROB loses one of his best ploys against many characters: the camping game. Falco's lasers are faster than ROB's neutral and down B. His blasters stop the gyro's way, but if it is not used, Falco still has the reflector to avoid it. You will really not want to camp. So, what you need to do is approach, but you also need to know how to approach. From the "How to Deal With Specific Moves" thread...

Our reflector is just too slow to avoid Falco's blasters. I approach with Dash > Shield. Airdodge could be very predicted. The blasters are really fast and if we airdodge the first one, we may get hit by the second. Approaching with Dash > Shield isn't bad, we just need to pay attention as Falco may mix up and grab us. So, stay at the correct range and Ftilt out of shield when you have time for so.

ROB has another ploy that works against many characters, and Falco is included: the off stage game. Falco's recovery isn't among the best ones in the game. His up B can be well punished, just like the side B. But for the latter, you need to now a thing or two. If you are grabbing the ledge, get out of it and use Bair. If you are on the stage, you can either Fsmash, Dsmash, or use something out of shield(like shield grab). For the up B, you only need to grab the ledge. If Falco crosses it, jump using an aerial or a ledge attack.

Once you are close to Falco and with 40%+, you should try take him off stage. Use F/Bthrow, followed by multiple Fairs. If you are not, Falco will try to grab you. And just for the record, I think you should be aware of T0MMY's statement:

Mr. Eric gave me some really good advice. When Falco leads into a Grab with a Jab, you can D-Smash between the Jab and Grab. He said it worked at lower percentages, but I SDI'd down and got it to work at 100%

The following links are some posts that are worth reading, in my opinion:

Ahvenas's post
Tin Man's post
LeishaChu's post
MetaMusicMan's post[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to take him to]Smashville sounds like a good starter option as it has a small size, not giving Falco enough space to camp well, but Halberd is better if it is among the neutrals list. If it it is not, then it turns into a great counterpick option. The ledge makes him phantasm early, the dip makes it easier to dodge lasers and you can also plank and shark your lasers through the stage(finally a way to camp Falco). Brinstar is also a good counterpick, but Falco players usually have a back up character when they are counterpicked to it.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to avoid]Final Destination. Enough said.[/collapse]

Ice Climbers

ROB 60-40 Ice Climbers​

[collapse=Summary]ROB'a Dsmash and Nair can separate the Ice Climbers, which is great because once they are separated, the matchup becomes easier, because ROB can take either Nana or Popo off stage with multiple Fairs and gimp. If he gimps Nana, all you need to do is camp. It's fun to see players killing themselves when Nana is gone because Popo can't do anything(if you see he is still giving trouble, just gimp him, it's so easy).

In fact, all you need to do todo the match is camp. Avoid their approches with Ftilt, Fsmash, or Fair. They usually hit one of the Ice Climbers. However, in case they approach, space Nair correctly and do what was said in the first paragraph. Dsmash also works.

Keep the gyro on the field, it stops their ice block camping and basically ruins their approach since you can camp lasers, F-tilts, and Fairs behind it, and whenever they Blizzard, laser them.

When you f-tilt them and it hits one but not the other its perfect, run forward and grab or D-smash the other, then follow nana and gimp her, always go for nana shes really easy to predict and Popo will make a mad dash to save her.

When they get too close D-smash will grape them due to their separate shield timings, then chase nana. Your other option when they get close is to run forward and grab them and F/B-throw but NEVER U/D-throw when they're together for obvious reasons.

Retreating F-airs are always safe if you're gyro isnt set up.

ROB's biggest problem, again, is his size. The Ice Climbers can make Down B walls by desynching, but they will probably have some problems when chaingrabbing ROB. You might want to read the following quote:

Like I said earlier, ICs should never grab ROB because if you're on the ground when they're close, urdoinitwrong. DSmash may be awesome at separating them, but NAir is just as awesome and they can't grab you out of the air.

[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to take them to]Final Destination is the best neutral due to its size, giving ROB possibilities to camp well. Among counterpicks, I would say Frigate Orpheon is the better choice because gimps turn easier to do.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to avoid]You should avoid stages with platforms like Battlefield. If you try to camp, you blindspots will be very open.[/collapse]

Marth

ROB 50-50 Marth​

[collapse=Summary]ROB is a big target, and Marth's Fair, Nair and Side B are such a pain. He can be shield grabbed between the third and fourth hits of the latter though. Marth's Uair and Utilt are also great for him because they can lead into juggles, bulding up some damage. However, ROB does have a decent response. His WBGC(Wave Bounce Gyro Cancel) can help when avoiding juggles. This thread may be helpful somehow.

Camping is a very useful ROB ploy, as usual. If Marth tries to approach with Fair, use Ftilt angled up because that's the only way ROB can outrange it. If he approaches by using something else, just pay close attention and try to punish him with something out of shield, but he may mix up and try to grab you. So, you need to be fast.

ROB is more at home versus Marth when he's onstage than offstage. The only two of our aerials that have even a slight chance against a Marth are Nair and Fair, but if you're trying to get back safely, they're probably staled by then. To even get your aerials to work, you've got to space them just right, and even then, pretty much all Marth mains are **** when it comes to spacing. They'll just counterspace.

Your best bet to have any chance of winning this matchup is just stay onstage, and don't use your aerials too much. Take your time racking up damage. You could even be super homo and try to time them out. But just tilt a lot and camp. Lotsa low ftilts to poke, and this will be your main damage racker, and then throw in a dtilt to refresh them. And pummel too.

So basically my advice is just take your time getting the Marth to KO percents, then use your fresh aerials/whatever you want to use. Your aerials being fresh will also be a bit of a help when you're offstage getting *****.

When close to Marth, use grabs(mainly F/Bthrow) and tilts(mainly D/Ftilt), trying to be far from him, then just start camping again. Going off stage isn't a bad idea, but it's much more safer to stay on it. In case you go there, use Fairs and try to take Marth as far as possible from the ledge. Then, grab it. If you think he may recover, get out of it and use Bair as an edgeguard option. And just for the record, click here to be directed to Raziek's post. It's pretty interesting.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to take him to]Final Destination is the best choice as a starter due to the enough space to camp, and Frigate Orpheon as a counterpick due to the the possibility to gimp easier.[/collapse]

[collapse=Stages to avoid]Stages with platforms aren't very nice. They can help you avoidind juggles, but they can also help Marth starting juggling you. Furthermore, Marth's aerials(mainly Fair) can cover most parts of the platforms due to their range. Battlefield and Brinstar are examples. Marth can kill ealier than usual on the latter using Usmash when ROB is above one of the two bottom platforms. Its ceiling is pretty low.[/collapse]





Summaries pending:

• Wario
• King Dedede
• Pikachu
• Olimar
• Lucario

 

[TheMike]

Reserved.

 

[Mister Eric]

Alright, let's do it...and finish it! For once. :D

 

[-LzR-]

When we get to EB kids or Falco, I can help, I have a lot of experience for those ^_^

 

[6Mizu]

Awesome thread. I'll help probably some time next week. School's a big...issue right now.

 

[TheMike]

I think we can already start discussing Meta Knight.

 

[ComradeSnake]

Why does everyone start at MK. I mean, not that much has changed. I know it makes sense to start from the more difficult and important matches (tournament wise) but why not try to hit some of the match ups you have never gotten to before?

Just saying...

...beep...

 

[Teh Future]

against mk:

shield tornado.

dont play like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81tzL0YMyH0

LOL

55-45 mk

 

[ComradeSnake]

In my experience Rob's shield kind of fails against nado. If you watch the vid Teh_Future cited, whenever Minty shielded a nado he had so many little left that cheese could just go right back in with another. Nado is a problem, a bit problem.

That being said, I haven't been playing Rob for long so I'll wait and let some other guy say if I'm right or wrong.

 

[Sudai]

Quoting from the Meta Game Development Thread.

So what can Rob do vs Metaknight? More specifically nado...

FSmash from the side. Laser from wherever you can hit it. Gyro with half charge. NAir from above (only the first and last parts of the hitbox). FAir from -just- above and to the side of the nado (Aka you just SDI'd out). BAir in a similar situation as FAir.

Really though, the only way to hit a smart MK in nado is to let it hit you then SDI and F/N/BAir.

A smart MK will nado too close for you to reaction laser/gyro/fsmash and won't let anyone get above the center of the tornado if it's the best position for that character to knock the MK out of his tornado (like it is for us, well...slightly to the side of the center, but yeah). That leaves us with BAir, NAir, and FAir from above.

FAir: Risky, hard to hit, least damage of the three.
NAir: Risky, hard to hit space since it has a lot of start-up lag and MK can move so you hit the side of the top (and thus get pulled in) or just rise to hit you before the hitbox comes out/while the hitbox isn't at the bottom of ROB.
BAir: Slightly better version of FAir as far as it's usage against nado is concerned.


Sooooo, you'rre looking at NAir, but even that isn't too good. I prolly missed some situational/silly ones, but that's what I got for you.

 

[Mister Eric]

Against MK, I only spam projectiles when i know his speed will not punish me, or when he throws out a careless nado.

Usually, I just stay in f-tilt range, recover high and sadly, try to telegraph moves. If you know the player well enough or spend a little bit of time throwing out moves to test the player, telegraphing, to me at least, isn't so bad. You can usually predict shuttle loops with nair or bair which can lead to early deaths if it's high enough to the kill zone.

Also, when a meta is tornado-ing, and they retreat it because they know your shield will beep that nado up, a common error for robs is to charge straight towards the falling mk. Well, for starters, we're slow, and MK can also auto cancel his landing if at a certain elevation. So plan accordingly. What I like toying with is charging at the mk and see if he reacts with one of two typical mk reactions:

1.) Spot dodge immediately
2.) d-smash immediately.

If the mk is consistently spot dodging, then read it and grab out of it.
If the mk is consistently d-smashing, come in with a nair, which should even eat through the spot dodge.
Just play around with it because you'll be put in that situation probably more than some of you realize.

I really don't think the MU is as hopeless as it is led to be, but I do believe it provokes a dramatic change in playstyle and literally causes you to play pretty robotically. Don't get fancy, play like your robotic life depends on it.

 

[TheMike]

It's winnable, but difficult. Meta Knight is very good off stage, where he can rack up some good damage using Dairs. Tornado is also something good for Meta Knight, who can use it for juggles, which is a big problem for ROB. Meta Knight will do multiple Uairs to get ROB in the air. He can also use Dthrow set ups for so, such as Dthrow to Tornado and Dthrow to Fair. Ftilt is also a good ploy for Meta Knight.

The biggest problems on this matchup are the facts that Meta Knight wins in the air, on the ground and off stage. ROB's only options are to camp and to predict Meta Knight's moves, just like Mister Eric said. I would also say that killing is a problem, even Meta Knight being light. However, he has a great momentum canceling with his Uair.

60-40 might be a good ratio, but as Meta Knight has some great approching options, such as Fair, Dash Attack and Tornado, and he's also pretty fast, turning the things difficult for ROB to camp and predict his moves, I think 65-35 is more appropriate.

 

[Conviction]

Fox's are discussing R.O.B, R.O.B players input would be great.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10005072#post10005072

Thanks in advance,

Fox Boards.

 

[TheMike]

why not try to hit some of the match ups you have never gotten to before?

We have already discussed all the matchups, indeed. Click here. We just need to have up to date discussions.



@ComradeSnake, Sudai and Mister Eric: Would you be so kind to provide me with the ratio you think is correct for this matchup?

 

[Megavitamins]

Watching this thread like a hawk.

against mk:

shield tornado.

dont play like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81tzL0YMyH0

LOL

55-45 mk

... This is a death MU for rob -__________- are you being serious lol

If you shield nado you're basically saying please **** me cuz your shield is so weak that MK can just go in with another one. you can't run away because you run out of stage, and MK beats rob head on. (meaning most of the time you should be camping imo) Once you get hit by nado, the fact that you're in the air means you get juggled liek ****, since Rob's moves in general are realllly slow, making him stupidly easy to edge guard & juggle. (plus the fact u cant do **** out of up-b)

 

[ccst]

Seriously, there's nothing you can do to him but camp and spam. The matchup is 30-70 (a smart MK) or highest 35-65 (a predicteble MK). And it seems that MK has weird hitboxes on R.O.B.. >_>

 

[ccst]

Meta Knight is broken.

 

[Teh Future]

Watching this thread like a hawk.


... This is a death MU for rob -__________- are you being serious lol

If you shield nado you're basically saying please **** me cuz your shield is so weak that MK can just go in with another one. you can't run away because you run out of stage, and MK beats rob head on. (meaning most of the time you should be camping imo) Once you get hit by nado, the fact that you're in the air means you get juggled liek ****, since Rob's moves in general are realllly slow, making him stupidly easy to edge guard & juggle. (plus the fact u cant do **** out of up-b)

if you shield nado correctly then either:

A) you punish mk
B) mk runs away and doesn't get punished

mk gains nothing.

be worse against nado imo

 

[-LzR-]

Seriously, there's nothing you can do to him but camp and spam. The matchup is 30-70 (a smart MK) or highest 35-65 (a predicteble MK). And it seems that MK has weird hitboxes on R.O.B.. >_>

lol ccst you can't choose a ratio depending on your foes style. We assume the MK always plays smart.

 

[TheMike]

And the ROB player should also play smart. I think we should discuss these matchups assuming both players are at the top of their character's metagame.

 

[Megavitamins]

Mike that's kind of obvious... of course the ROB should play smart >_>

if you shield nado correctly then either:

A) you punish mk
B) mk runs away and doesn't get punished

mk gains nothing.

be worse against nado imo

.... Either way you get ROB's shield to be ***, and even if Rob does punish all he gets is a few percent because the most he should be able to punish with is like... f-tilt.

Or, it could just poke in the initial nado.

Once you get nado'd (no shield left lol) you get juggled, or you can run onto the ledge and get gayed by MK's really really good ledge game.

Be ******** more imo

 

[TheMike]

Final Destination is ROB's best option among the neutrals for having enough space for a good camp game. There isn't a platform where Meta Knight can pressure ROB with Uairs. However, MK still has some great ploys to keep ROB in the air, such as Up B. So, watch for it. You should try to use Nair to beat Meta Knight's Up B, and if you're high enough to the kill zone, MK might die, just like Mister Eric said.

MK will probably use some grounded Shuttle Loops, too, especially Out of Shield. It has some invencibily frames, so, attacking is not a good option to avoid it. I recomend an attemp for a Power Shield, followed by a Jump + U/Fair Out of Shield. I would say the same whether you Spot Dodge instead of Power Shield. In case you get hit, try to avoid the Glide Attack by jumping. Actually, if you get hit, I recomend to jump anyway, because if Meta Knight doesn't use the Glide Attack, your best option is probably using Fast Fall > Nair.

Battlefield is terrible for ROB. There isn't much space comparing to Final Destination. You can still camp, but it will not be so good, like it would on FD. Besides, the three platforms are very close to one another, meaning that Meta Knight can use his swords attacks for a great spacing. ROB is also juggled easier here. So, avoid Battlefield.

As a second option among the neutrals, I would say Yoshi's Island, for not having bottom stage, meaning that Meta Knight will not gimp you as easy as he would if you were playing on other stages, such as Smashville. Which isn't a good stage in my opinion because the stage's size is pretty small. And its platform helps Meta Knight to hit ROB with his Up B.

Best neutral: Final Destination.
Second option if the stage striking rule is applied: Yoshi's Island.
Ban(if the stage striking rule is applied)/avoid: Battlefield/Smashville.

For counter pick stages, I would say Halberd is the best option. I have said somethings about Halberd on the Q&A Thread sometime ago, but I can say here again: ROB can't get stage spiked(except for one transformation, where ROB should camp, camp, camp and camp some more), making him feel more secure off stage. ROB can also come from the bottom rising and Uair, avoiding Meta Knight's ledge pressure. Halberd's low ceiling helps ROB to kill MK earlier. And the platform on the center helps even more. It allows you to get some Usmashes easier than usual, that has more knock back than Fsmash.

Frigate is always fine for ROB, but against Meta Knight I don't like it very much. It can be used as a second option, but I would rather taking MK to Castle Siege if you're playing a best of 5 set, because most of tournaments don't allow you to play on a stage where you have won before on the same set. And you will not need more options whether it's a best of 3 set.

On Castle Siege, you only need to camp on the first transformation, using Ftilt[angled down/up(depending on the situation)] for spacing. The low ceiling is also pretty good for ROB as there are two platforms(I would act the same way on Frigate). The second transformation is probably the best place for ROB against MK: the laser go though the statues, and ROB can kill Meta Knight easier from the side using either F/Bthrow, or Fsmash.

Best counter pick: Halberd
Second option if the stage striking rule is applied: Castle Siege
Ban(if the stage striking rule is applied)/avoid: Delfino Plaza, Rainbow Cruise and Luigi's Mansion for obvious reasons[MK's air game, Tornado(Luigi's Mansion lololol), ROB's terrible base aerial mobility(the worst in the game), etc.].


@Megavitamins: It's obvious, but it's good to emphasize that both players should be playing at the same level(top of the metagame, indeed), as there are some begginers around these boards.

 

[ccst]

Oh, sorry, of course both play their very best, stupid of me. I think R.O.B.'s best counter pick is Jungle Japes, you can camp there as much as you want. But Meta Knight can be dangerous there too with his broken Shuttle Loop for example, and a hard time killing him. But I'm used to that stage so I often win there.

 

[Sudai]

I'd rather take MK somewhere else. Getting him in the air really doesn't do much for us and that's why we like Japes. Hardcore camp and forced air approaches. Either way, banned in most regions, MK will kill you very early even with perfectly DI'd shuttle loops.

I really like Battle Field. The extra recovery options the stage provides helps us more than it helps MK and the effect is more pronounced than on Smashville, even though neither helps all too much, but it's better than nothing.

 

[TheMike]

ROB will have serious difficulties to kill Meta Knight on Jungle Japes. I don't think it's better than Halberd, Castle Siege and Frigate. It isn't good in my opinion, indded.

Also Sudai, do you think Battlefield is better than Final Destination and Yoshi's Island?

 

[stingers]

Grabs are really important for us
Battlefield is a lot easier then Final in this matchup
Bair wrecks MK's approaches (well, you can't get punished for bairing is what I mean )
Being against the side of the stage isn't that big a deal, its not like we have much we can do center-stage anyway. All it means is you can't bair as much, but you still have Nair.
Don't be afraid to go offstage sometimes to edgeguard
Grabs are really important for us
Dair is actually really useful when falling
Fair isn't really useful at all...if they ftilt too close I guess
Shield glide attacks and nairs and punish with Dsmash
Alternate between Ftilt and dash grab when they try to dash and shield just at ftilt range
Walking away is always fun and totally unpunishable
Shoot a gyro under MK when he's falling then go aggro as ****, you won't be able to stay on him for long but please take what opportunities you have and don't be afraid
Dash attack is about as useful in this MU as the marth MU and used in the same situations pretty much, don't be afraid of the end lag because it helps a lot. and most mks will try and fall on you with a nair after you land a dash attack so then punish them by shielding and grabbing/dsmashing
Grabs are really important for us
Bair MK when he tries to Up B you, or Nair if he's trying to do it over the stage for whatever reason (can kill at like 80% depending on how stupid the MK is (how high he's going after you))

I like to CP Siege in this MU personally.
I think Yoshis is good for us as well.
Stay away from Final...you get juggled too easily and have no protection from glide
BF is great sometimes though the fact it's too small makes it annoying. lay your gyro on platforms for stage control it can help a lot

walking away to wavebounce laser/gyro =
its the fastest option to put space inbetween you and also throw something annoying out.
when you're coming back to the stage, throw a gyro so it skims the ledge and lands in front of you. they have to do something about it. punish them for it. even if the only thing your doing is getting back on stage =) that counts as a punishment in my book

 

[TheMike]

Battlefield is a lot easier then Final in this matchup

Can you please elaborate on this?

 

[stingers]

Can you please elaborate on this?

platforms mean he has less room to chase you with (if he lands on a platform while trying to chase you, he has to deal with landing lag which while like 3 frames helps more then you'd think) which means that the mere presence of platforms means that there's less space MK can actually cover while trying to chase you while falling... MK isn't marth...he doesnt cover platforms with aerial mobility and large sweeping hitboxes, he just jumps around a lot and uairs where he thinks your gonna fall onto or tornados below you, which is a lot less dangerous...it's actually easier to get grounded against mk on bf then on final where he can just...watch you as you fall then be gay as hell and uair and cover your airdodge with tornado and piss you off.

and thats what makes the matchup, the fact ROB has no way to come back down :/ so anywhere that makes it easier = you want to be there

 

[TheMike]

I see. All you said is right. However, I think that having a good space for camping is pretty good, too. Final Destination can be one option as a neutral, but not the best. You convinced me and now I think that Battlefield is better than Final Destination.

And what about Yoshi's Island? BF > YS or YS > BF? In my opinion, YS > BF.

 

[Teh Future]

Mike that's kind of obvious... of course the ROB should play smart >_>



.... Either way you get ROB's shield to be ***, and even if Rob does punish all he gets is a few percent because the most he should be able to punish with is like... f-tilt.

Or, it could just poke in the initial nado.

Once you get nado'd (no shield left lol) you get juggled, or you can run onto the ledge and get gayed by MK's really really good ledge game.

Be ******** more imo

i know you posted words but its hard to take them seriously when you just get shield poked by every tornado ever

 

[ccst]

platforms mean he has less room to chase you with (if he lands on a platform while trying to chase you, he has to deal with landing lag which while like 3 frames helps more then you'd think) which means that the mere presence of platforms means that there's less space MK can actually cover while trying to chase you while falling... MK isn't marth...he doesnt cover platforms with aerial mobility and large sweeping hitboxes, he just jumps around a lot and uairs where he thinks your gonna fall onto or tornados below you, which is a lot less dangerous...it's actually easier to get grounded against mk on bf then on final where he can just...watch you as you fall then be gay as hell and uair and cover your airdodge with tornado and piss you off.

and thats what makes the matchup, the fact ROB has no way to come back down :/ so anywhere that makes it easier = you want to be there

I totally agree with you. The platforms help you more than you think. FD and SV are your worst neutral stages in my opinion, and PS1 can be pretty good too. It has platforms and you have much camping space and can do your D-tilt lock/infinitive (D-smash below the windmill/against a wall). I don't know about YI, then I never play on it it seems like. :/

 

[TheMike]

Best Starters: Yoshi's Island and Battlefield.
Worst Starters: Final Destination and Smashville.

The other starters are neutral on this matchup.


Any disagreement?

 

[ccst]

PS1 is also a pretty good stage, your D-tilt rocks there! And YI only has one big large platform, which is for me, good for MK. He can GSH (ground shuttle loop) and go there without punishment (depends, but he's landing there directly). In BF, you can at least punish him with an Up-smash or another attack. But as said, talk to someone else with more experience than me on that stage. ([^^]

 

[TheMike]

Yoshi's Island is pretty good for ROB against MK. At least, I think so. And I also think that Meta Knight's Dtilt and other sword attacks of his with that transcendent priority rocks more than ROB's Dtilt. =/

 

[ccst]

Yeah, but you can DI upwards, and if the MK is fast, he comes closer to you, but if he does it slower, he doesn't move forward, but can do an "infinitive". But you can always DI from it I think, in contrast to R.O.B.. It's harder for MK to DI since D-tilt is so fast, but it's not impossible.

 

[Silhouette]

I only take him to neutrals that i can gap to help recover.

 

[Spin]

i agree with CCST about PS1. it is a very good stage for ROB. He can still space/camp well, and get in the occasional upsmash in, which kills early, and taking early stock on MK is always a plus.

On the killing MK problem, glide toss to fsmash works if you can get him on the landing. only one situation, but it does work.

 

[Teh Future]

platforms are worse for rob when he is getting back on stage though. I guess he's f'd either way though so I can see why you would say platforms are better

 

[Megavitamins]

i know you posted words but its hard to take them seriously when you just get shield poked by every tornado ever

BECAUSE ROB'S SHIELD IS ***, it pokes regardless of the angle

im sure my rob > yours anyway, i havent even played as him since like 08. >_>

 

[stingers]

yeah robs shield is pretty bad. that aint diddy kong.