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The ROB Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheMike
- Start date
Claire Diviner
President
I don't usually have many problems with G&W. Other than level 9 CPUs, I have gone against a few Game & Watch players. Either the match-up isn't as bad as some think, or the players I've fought were not very skilled.
From my experiences, the main thing to worry about is G&W's high priority aerials. To combat that, I simply harass him with projectiles, alternating between the gyro and Robo Beam whilst keeping your distance. Another thing to worry about is Oil Panic which can turn your Robo Beam against you. However, if they fill the bucket with three Robo Beams, he'll have lost a good Momentum Cancel option.
I know I need to play against more Game & Watches, preferably against pros, but for now, I'll say for my initial prediction that the match-up should be even at 50-50.
Now if I can only find G&W players to play against for experimentation. ^ω^
From my experiences, the main thing to worry about is G&W's high priority aerials. To combat that, I simply harass him with projectiles, alternating between the gyro and Robo Beam whilst keeping your distance. Another thing to worry about is Oil Panic which can turn your Robo Beam against you. However, if they fill the bucket with three Robo Beams, he'll have lost a good Momentum Cancel option.
I know I need to play against more Game & Watches, preferably against pros, but for now, I'll say for my initial prediction that the match-up should be even at 50-50.
Now if I can only find G&W players to play against for experimentation. ^ω^
Hater
Smash Ace
With this MU the best advice i can give is, The ground is your friend. Stay on it, hug it, love it and dont leave its side. Rob wills be using a lot of tilts in this MU lots of f tilt to punish bad spacing, d tilt for trying to get that trip and uptilt if spaced/timed right can beat out key(dair). Unfortunately Usmash will be useless unless your playing on a stage with platforms of which i would advise against. Fsmash will be your main kill move so save it up ^^. Dsmash lol dsmash just mash that c stick :D:D:D as always is useful. Fair will get beaten out by GnW's fair so use it smartly. I can never hit with dair but again it has it uses. Nair prolly my fav aerial to spam is almost completely useless in this MU 
As we all know laser is laggy and can be predictable but so is GnW bucket so if your a smart little robot you wont be aiming at GnW 100% of the time which allows rob to punish bucket lag. Gyro (drigger as i like to call it ^^) This little baby is the reason this MU isn't higher in GnW's favour as a thrown item it can lead to traps in the air as GnW has a bad airdodge i.e. throw gyro use nair. Do not get into the habit of charging your gyro whilst falling down the sides of the stage GnW is very mobile in the air and can/will punish a rob recovering low. That being said for GnW juggling rob is easier than metaknight pushing b. So again this comes down to being unpredictable. Another thing to note is that although the mighty oil panic is a frightening move if you fill a bucket with a weak laser it should give you plenty of time to use gyro to punish.
With regards to throwing GnW remember although he has bucket he is a lightweight so dont forget about uthrow and if you feel yourself getting over whelmed fthrow or bthrow GnW off the ledge and charge a gyro to reset the situation.
With bair always remember that is if isnt auto canceled properly there is a period where gnw turtle does not have a hit box. (There was this thread in teh tactical discussion why GnW bair is a bad move but i cant find it anymore ><) The way it works if after 5 hits the head of the turtle pops down then after that it pops back up again providing a hurtbox. When the head is down you have time to jab and grab GnW plz do so (they totally love it^^)
Also every smash from GnW is telegraphed so dont get hit by them
All of this being said its still 60:40 ><
As we all know laser is laggy and can be predictable but so is GnW bucket so if your a smart little robot you wont be aiming at GnW 100% of the time which allows rob to punish bucket lag. Gyro (drigger as i like to call it ^^) This little baby is the reason this MU isn't higher in GnW's favour as a thrown item it can lead to traps in the air as GnW has a bad airdodge i.e. throw gyro use nair. Do not get into the habit of charging your gyro whilst falling down the sides of the stage GnW is very mobile in the air and can/will punish a rob recovering low. That being said for GnW juggling rob is easier than metaknight pushing b. So again this comes down to being unpredictable. Another thing to note is that although the mighty oil panic is a frightening move if you fill a bucket with a weak laser it should give you plenty of time to use gyro to punish.
With regards to throwing GnW remember although he has bucket he is a lightweight so dont forget about uthrow and if you feel yourself getting over whelmed fthrow or bthrow GnW off the ledge and charge a gyro to reset the situation.
With bair always remember that is if isnt auto canceled properly there is a period where gnw turtle does not have a hit box. (There was this thread in teh tactical discussion why GnW bair is a bad move but i cant find it anymore ><) The way it works if after 5 hits the head of the turtle pops down then after that it pops back up again providing a hurtbox. When the head is down you have time to jab and grab GnW plz do so (they totally love it^^)
Also every smash from GnW is telegraphed so dont get hit by them
All of this being said its still 60:40 ><
Revolutionary1804
Smash Apprentice
good matches tv. however idont understand why the matchup is 55-45 in pit's favor? everything we have seems to beat his....
Cubone
Smash Lord
This discussion really up and died on us....
@ Hater since I'm too lazy to pick out what I'm adressing in a quote.
Spacing nair isn't at all useless vs GW. It outranges all of (or at least most) of his moveset.
The biggest problem I have with Pit is if they take even a small lead and begin running away with the occasional arrow. Trying to catch them and do something safely is a pain.
Still see the MU as 5:5 - 55:45 ROB favor though.
If we are going to continue following Tier list v4 our next discussion is Toon link.
As a side thought If anyone else pays attention to the Pika boards they do their MUs with ratio's other than multiples of 5. Would anyone here agree that it makes more sense?
@ Hater since I'm too lazy to pick out what I'm adressing in a quote.
Spacing nair isn't at all useless vs GW. It outranges all of (or at least most) of his moveset.
The biggest problem I have with Pit is if they take even a small lead and begin running away with the occasional arrow. Trying to catch them and do something safely is a pain.
Still see the MU as 5:5 - 55:45 ROB favor though.
If we are going to continue following Tier list v4 our next discussion is Toon link.
S: Meta Knight
A:Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Ice Climbers, Marth, Wario
B:King Dedede, Pikachu, Olimar, Lucario, Mr. Game & Watch
C:Pit, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, R.O.B.
D: Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf
E: Sheik, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Ness, Bowser
F: Lucas, Ike, Yoshi, Mario, Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff
G: Zelda, Link, Ganondorf
A:
B:
C:
D: Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf
E: Sheik, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Ness, Bowser
F: Lucas, Ike, Yoshi, Mario, Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff
G: Zelda, Link, Ganondorf
As a side thought If anyone else pays attention to the Pika boards they do their MUs with ratio's other than multiples of 5. Would anyone here agree that it makes more sense?
If you meat a pro G&W mainer you'll see it's in his favour. ([^^]
At Cubone, no, it looks terrible to be quite honest.
Cubone
Smash Lord
Its not heavy his favor
if its his favor at all
and it makes more sense, aesthetics shouldn't be a reason to avoid it.
Claire Diviner
President
I'm sure there must be something R.O.B. has that he can take advantage of vs. Game & Watch. If not, then I guess playing intelligently and defensively will have to do... for now.
As for Toon Link, I've yet to face any Toon Link mains. I could test it on wi-fi, but we all know how unreliable that is. Playing level 9 CPUs will not suffice either, but from my experiences with the CPUs alone, I can imagine the little brat being quite annoying. X__x
I just realized with this post, I now have upgraded to SmashApprentice. ^ω^
As for Toon Link, I've yet to face any Toon Link mains. I could test it on wi-fi, but we all know how unreliable that is. Playing level 9 CPUs will not suffice either, but from my experiences with the CPUs alone, I can imagine the little brat being quite annoying. X__x
I just realized with this post, I now have upgraded to SmashApprentice. ^ω^
Cubone
Smash Lord
I'll do what I know with Toon Link shortly but I'll throw out 45:55 (ROB:TLink)
Claire Diviner
President
Ahaha! Maybe it depends on the Toon Link player? Honestly, I imagine it being no less than 40-60. Of course, I haven't played any good Toon Link mains to give a proper input. Sorry.
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
either 40 60 or 45 55 tinks favor both ways.
Rob gets out camped easily and its hard to zone in with all the projectiles going everywhere. have fun being shield poked all the time. (well mostly happens with me anyway)
Rob gets out camped easily and its hard to zone in with all the projectiles going everywhere. have fun being shield poked all the time. (well mostly happens with me anyway)
Mister Eric
Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW TOONLINK
Quite possibly the most annoying MU out there that we all can prob agree on lol.
I can only relay what most people have told me about the MU. Not what I really learn. My brain deflates when I have what seems like a bazillion things being thrown at me all at once. My best advice is to practice what MU strategy we have for this, and condition yourself to the projectile environment. I really don't see anyone walking right into it and feeling comfortable if the TL knows what they're doing.
In the long run, I don't think it's that bad of a MU. Most likely in TL's favour than ours, but still managable. We just have to learn to get past his bull[beep]
Quite possibly the most annoying MU out there that we all can prob agree on lol.
I can only relay what most people have told me about the MU. Not what I really learn. My brain deflates when I have what seems like a bazillion things being thrown at me all at once. My best advice is to practice what MU strategy we have for this, and condition yourself to the projectile environment. I really don't see anyone walking right into it and feeling comfortable if the TL knows what they're doing.
In the long run, I don't think it's that bad of a MU. Most likely in TL's favour than ours, but still managable. We just have to learn to get past his bull[beep]
sneakytako
Smash Lord
Ok I kinda know this MU cause I've played Quivo a lot.
TL out camps us, but that doesn't mean we don't camp during the entire set. Pretty much this MU is a stalemate between both of us having better anti-approaching options than approaching options. The key is to force them to make a lame approach by having stage control, which involves staying on the ground a lot. TL is going to jump around and spam projectiles, but our fair cancels arrows and Boomerangs, and we can catch bombs. So pretty much Fair > Projectiles, but we have to time them pretty well, and he has situations were he can punish us for canceling projectiles. So we want to stay low to the ground and WoP with Fair. The second lame thing is Zair, he can do it out of a airdodge and it can shield poke us at the top. Rolling toward him while he's spotdodging is a pretty good counter, it sets us up nicely so we can punish his zair from behind, but if you get predictable he will punish you with nair/dair.
Once you get him off the stage, it's in our favor all day, but don't get overconfident and eat a nair in the face. Full charged gyro is great off the stage, bait a reaction by floating over to his level and then back off and gyro him in the face.
We want to camp when we are ahead a stock, he can't kill from a distance unless he hits you out of bomb hitstun. Stay really far away/below him and spam projectiles and expand your lead.
I actually think FD is our best neutral against him, while SV is our worst. I hate having our options limited by low platforms, and offering him higher footing to spam projectiles. On BF it's really hard to punish Zair if he sits below the platforms, same with his nair. Ban Brinstar or Lylat against him imo, and take him to Frigate/Halbred. Although halbred helps him kill with upsmash/uptilt/upair, it really makes him easy to kill with nair/dsmash. I would avoid CPing him to RC, if he gets ahead of you on the map, he will camp and make our lives miserable.
TL out camps us, but that doesn't mean we don't camp during the entire set. Pretty much this MU is a stalemate between both of us having better anti-approaching options than approaching options. The key is to force them to make a lame approach by having stage control, which involves staying on the ground a lot. TL is going to jump around and spam projectiles, but our fair cancels arrows and Boomerangs, and we can catch bombs. So pretty much Fair > Projectiles, but we have to time them pretty well, and he has situations were he can punish us for canceling projectiles. So we want to stay low to the ground and WoP with Fair. The second lame thing is Zair, he can do it out of a airdodge and it can shield poke us at the top. Rolling toward him while he's spotdodging is a pretty good counter, it sets us up nicely so we can punish his zair from behind, but if you get predictable he will punish you with nair/dair.
Once you get him off the stage, it's in our favor all day, but don't get overconfident and eat a nair in the face. Full charged gyro is great off the stage, bait a reaction by floating over to his level and then back off and gyro him in the face.
We want to camp when we are ahead a stock, he can't kill from a distance unless he hits you out of bomb hitstun. Stay really far away/below him and spam projectiles and expand your lead.
I actually think FD is our best neutral against him, while SV is our worst. I hate having our options limited by low platforms, and offering him higher footing to spam projectiles. On BF it's really hard to punish Zair if he sits below the platforms, same with his nair. Ban Brinstar or Lylat against him imo, and take him to Frigate/Halbred. Although halbred helps him kill with upsmash/uptilt/upair, it really makes him easy to kill with nair/dsmash. I would avoid CPing him to RC, if he gets ahead of you on the map, he will camp and make our lives miserable.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
toon link is pretty even in terms of camping, it all depends on the distance, close range camping he beast us outright, but long range we destroy him. close range he can outrange us to seeing as he has a sword (and a fast one like that) so hes pretty much the lovechild of link and marth. ftilt is pretty amazing here and a recommend learnnig to space with it perfectly.
as for stages, i suggest banning yoshi's as he has that annoying dsmash thing on the ledge which (while it doesnt kill us) can be so very annoying and lead to a lot of damage on us. as for counterpicks. japes once again seems like a good option as toon link likes to kill with the usmash and other vertical moves, the ceiling limits him solely to fair and fsmash, both of which are easy to avoid.
50-50, maybe 55-45 our favour
as for stages, i suggest banning yoshi's as he has that annoying dsmash thing on the ledge which (while it doesnt kill us) can be so very annoying and lead to a lot of damage on us. as for counterpicks. japes once again seems like a good option as toon link likes to kill with the usmash and other vertical moves, the ceiling limits him solely to fair and fsmash, both of which are easy to avoid.
50-50, maybe 55-45 our favour
I have played this MU kinda much, but not against any pro players. TL has a crappy range, but useful aerials and all the bombs. Learn to powershield the bombs, makes it a lot easier. If you don't they start to bounce around. IIRC the bombs explode on PS.
Cubone
Smash Lord
I don't get where several people are calling this worse than 45:55
We win at long range camping, he wins at mid range, and we should be winning again once we get into ftilt range.
45:55 - 50:50...
We win at long range camping, he wins at mid range, and we should be winning again once we get into ftilt range.
45:55 - 50:50...
What exactly does TL have?
-Short ranged melee attacks
-Really crappy kill ability
-Nice, but slow projectiles.
I would say it's even, zair is bad for Rob, but Rob has many answers to everything TL throws at him and his projectiles aren't that good outside of bombs. His arrows are way too slow and will pretty much always be powershielded. His boomerang does a lot of damage and is confusing in it's pattern, but it's still slow.
His bombs are the thing, they are evil. But we have lasers and gyro. It becomes a camp fest and it's not unlikely that this MU ends in a timeout.
-Short ranged melee attacks
-Really crappy kill ability
-Nice, but slow projectiles.
I would say it's even, zair is bad for Rob, but Rob has many answers to everything TL throws at him and his projectiles aren't that good outside of bombs. His arrows are way too slow and will pretty much always be powershielded. His boomerang does a lot of damage and is confusing in it's pattern, but it's still slow.
His bombs are the thing, they are evil. But we have lasers and gyro. It becomes a camp fest and it's not unlikely that this MU ends in a timeout.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
as said earlier, providing we keep away he cant do much, his projectile are pretty short ranged, whereas our two have infinity range (laser) and one that fires the length of FD fully charges, and hangs around FOREVER. while he has the long range but 1mph arrows, the terribly short range boomerang, and the arcing bombs which explode when they touch the floor, i think we win this if we're at a distance
Cubone
Smash Lord
Define close combat? Ftilt/Dtilt range for us. His range is pretty short.
Camp him at a distance, if he gets into camping range push forward and try to powershield his stuff (it moves so slow) or catch the bombs. Once you get into ftilt or dtilt range he can't really camp anymore and the only thing he has that can really reach us is zair. Get the poke, follow up what you can and start the whole game over again.
We never were... social is the active thread, most of us don't actually play anymore..
Claire Diviner
President
How's R.O.B. not popular? How can one not love that cute robot Johnny-5 type of face! XD
Cubone
Smash Lord
Complaints of him being an annoying character (lol) and the fact that a majority of people didn't even know who he was when the game released.
I had no idea who he was, I thought he was originated from SSE lol. But I immediately realized how cool he was and started maining him since I unlocked him
About TL, he doesn't win in close quarters because in his range, we can pretty much like dsmash his stuff.
About TL, he doesn't win in close quarters because in his range, we can pretty much like dsmash his stuff.
([OO] <----- <3 So cute! x3
Hater
Smash Ace
[0 0] Why can't people see that R.o.b. only wants love
Cubone
Smash Lord
Fixed.
:ledge:
Cubone
Smash Lord
-attempts to get this thread back on topic-
Can one of the people that think we lose to toon link give sort of an outline for the matchup...? I really don't see it.
Can one of the people that think we lose to toon link give sort of an outline for the matchup...? I really don't see it.
Indeed, he doesn't really have anything for us, he can even gimp us and he can kill either, we gonna live forever so he gotta spam them bombs for 5 minutes to kill. Also, it's not as easy to juggle Rob with TL as his uair is slow and a killmove and his other aerials don't reach upwards much.