Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[majora_787]

Why are people back to size debates as if they mean anything? <_<

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Actually they shrunk down Ganadorf in brawl, hes actually taller in twilight princess, and too those who say hes he would look weird or it wouldn't work, too me is a foolish thing to say I bet alot of people thought how would Miis work, G&W I bet alot people would say he wouldn't look right. Time and again Sakurai shows that he can make crazy things possible in this game, so changing Ridley too a playable size is defiantly in the realm of possibility.

I said he was taller in Smash, but you are correct in that he is smaller than in Twilight Princess.

One thing we have not seen is Sakurai do is make someone who has always and consistently been overwhelmingly large boss into playable character. We have seen characters being incredibly small such as Olimar who is canonically an inch tall, become a feasible size in Smash, but we have yet to see the extreme other side of the spectrum. And, as pointed out in my previous points in regards to the other big bois of Smash, Ridley fits the bill as being on the extreme other end of the spectrum.

Yet even then, Metroid still has elements of magic in there. Remember the Chozo Ghosts? Ridley's size inconsistency could probably be explained by Space Pirate Science (a very, very soft form of science though).


Metroid is a series in which the bosses are usually expected to be big so that they're easier for the players to hit. A good expanation for Ridley's size increase in Super Metroid (and beyond) is that Samus's range of fire was increased from the original game, which would have made it very hard for the player to hit a mobile, Samus-sized boss.

Thanks for bringing that up. Then perhaps Ridley's size was designed around the gameplay, not because he was canonically small at one point.

Discussed how obviously fake it is? XD

Just found something! You know how Sakurai said the gliding mechanic was cut from Pit's repertoire? Some people took this to mean that gliding in of itself had been cut, which wouldn't make sense if Ridley was playable, as that is something he would definitely use. Turns out, it isn't cut. Palutena can glide, she uses it in her trailer.

That trailer showed off 12 of Palutena's special moves, and Jump Glide is one of them. What he most likely meant was that the actual glide mechanic that Pit, Charizard, and Meta Knight shared (the one where you hold the jump button) was cut. I doubt he was referring to the Wings of Icarus move getting replaced by the Power of Flight.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Why are people back to size debates as if they mean anything? <_<

We get bored.

 

[ppbto]

Seriously, are we discussing the size argument, again? I thought that thing was dead for good.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm sorry...I got lots of request already....

Well... I will... Um... make my own.

STARRING ME, the floating space ninja psychic reptile cat-clone king!

I What he most likely meant was.

No, I won't play that game, because it is absurd. Between language barriers and intentional misdirection, 'what he likely meant' is a foolish folly.

 

[Xenorange]

Why are people back to size debates as if they mean anything? <_<

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[majora_787]

Moral of the story: Size is irrelevant. Smash Bros. does not abide by size canon at all. They also do not need to because anyone can be resized for the purpose of playability and that's generally how it'd be EXPECTED that they handle it. It is not new, it is not difficult, Ridley is not special in this regard.

Conversation over, now we can talk about something more interesting. Like Phantoon's toes.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

also... it makes me kind of sad that noone here is using these picture as his avatar:

I will!

Why are people back to size debates as if they mean anything? <_<

Because we have nothing to do and there is idiots in internet. At least Jerry brings us arguments and they are not too bad.

One thing we have not seen is Sakurai do is make someone who has always and consistently been overwhelmingly large boss into playable character. We have seen characters being incredibly small such as Olimar who is canonically an inch tall, become a feasible size in Smash, but we have yet to see the extreme other side of the spectrum. And, as pointed out in my previous points in regards to the other big bois of Smash, Ridley fits the bill as being on the extreme other end of the spectrum.

Then Ridley's size was designed around the gameplay, not because he was canonically small at one point.

Everything changes. He already made a pretty big boss normal-sized. Since there wasn`t any big bosses left to be made playable that deserve a spot other that Ridley and K.Rool i guess, he couldn`t do that. He can do that only by resizing this 2 guys (and i care only about former one because K.Rool is fat...otherwise, i would support him too)

...Wait, i am Smash Journeyman already? When did that happened?!

Edit: i was NINJA SPACE PIRATED!

 

[Kalimdori]

Moral of the story: Size is irrelevant. Smash Bros. does not abide by size canon at all. They also do not need to because anyone can be resized for the purpose of playability and that's generally how it'd be EXPECTED that they handle it. It is not new, it is not difficult, Ridley is not special in this regard.

Conversation over, now we can talk about something more interesting. Like Phantoon's toes.

If Phantoon's toes were to be considered as a character in Smash Bros, what would their moveset be?

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

If size doesn't matter, then why are we still talking about it? Because it does! There is a reason some big bois are in Smash and why some are not, and why some big bois are scaled the way they are so they still are big bois within intuitive feasibility in the game!

If Phantoon's toes were to be considered as a character in Smash Bros, what would their moveset be?

Whipping, grabbing, and squeezing?

...

...

 

[majora_787]

If size doesn't matter, then why are we still talking about it? Because it does! There is a reason some big bois are in Smash and why some are not, and why some big bois are scaled the way they are so they still are big bois within intuitive feasibility!



Whipping, grabbing, and squeezing?

...

...

It doesn't matter. Which is why the conversation is ending. :\ Smash Bros. has not gone a single day without making it apparent that it does not care about canon sizes and will do what it wants to make things fulfill their purpose. And that's fine.

Also Phantoon's toes will attack by smelling so bad that people will confuse them for the size argument.

 

[ppbto]

If size doesn't matter, then why are we still talking about it? Because it does! There is a reason some big bois are in Smash and why some are not, and why some big bois are scaled the way they are so they still are big bois within intuitive feasibility!



Whipping, grabbing, and squeezing?

...

Just two things:
1. Smash is a non canon game. (they resize and change the canon for gameplay sake as much as it is needed)

2. Ridley doesn't have a canon size. (he just needs to be bigger than Samus)

 

[pupNapoleon]

If size doesn't matter, then why are we still talking about it? Because it does! There is a reason some big bois are in Smash and why some are not, and why some big bois are scaled the way they are so they still are big bois within intuitive feasibility!



Whipping, grabbing, and squeezing?

...

...

All opinions are not valid here, man.

Funny, as I type that, Kyle (south park) said " I dont want to have a conversation about your **** *****! You're not that important!"
That is how I feel about this size conversation. It is a personal preference to those who prefer to believe He cannot be small, just as many thought Miis were not an option, or that Pacman was a poor option. To me it shows lack of creativity to see the final product, to think outside of the original game, because obviously (to me), looking at that roster, it is evident that size is based on 'what looks good to an outside eye,' not, 'what made the most sense in game.' Characters' sizes are fully wonky all across the board.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Also Phantoon's toes will attack by smelling so bad that people will confuse them for the size argument.

They attack by not existing because Phantoon doesn`t has legs.

And why would they care about canonical size that much if not ALL of the players will know how big those characters were in their original game. I heard there was players that thought that Marth first appeared in Melee.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Also Phantoon's toes will attack by smelling so bad that people will confuse them for the size argument.

Hahahaha. Has it smelled less bad as of late or is it altogether as putrid as ever?

Just two things:
1. Smash is a non canon game. (they resize and change the canon for gameplay sake as much as it is needed)

2. Ridley doesn't have a canon size. (he just needs to be bigger than Samus)

True, but he is always significantly, overwhelmingly large compared to Samus.

All opinions are not valid here, man.

Funny, as I type that, Kyle (south park) said " I dont want to have a conversation about your **** *****! You're not that important!"
That is how I feel about this size conversation. It is a personal preference to those who prefer to believe He cannot be small, just as many thought Miis were not an option, or that Pacman was a poor option. To me it shows lack of creativity to see the final product, to think outside of the original game, because obviously (to me), looking at that roster, it is evident that size is based on 'what looks good to an outside eye,' not, 'what made the most sense in game.' Characters' sizes are fully wonky all across the board.

Keep in mind that size needs to make sense. Olimar the size of DK? No go, big boi!

 

[majora_787]

The size argument reminds me of how one person was going on about how Ridley is so big that he's bigger than a Snorlax.

...Even though Snorlaxes are like 6 feet, 10 inches. A little bit shorter than Samus, and a lot smaller than the BIG guys in the series like DK, Bowser, or Ganondorf.

So basically, Ridley is SO GIGANTIC that he's bigger than Samus. ...Do tell.

 

[NintenRob]

I'm sorry for bringing up size, it was brought up because other people else where still talk about it.

People say Ridley would look weird when he is just a bit bigger then Samus, but Bowser gets away with with it when he is about the same size as Rosalina.


Also the shadow also disproves the size argument since he IS about the size of Bowser.

 

[majora_787]

Olimar the size of anyone in Smash makes no sense. Kirby is just over half a foot tall. Olimar is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than that. Dedede should be shorter than Mario, let alone shorter than *BOWSER*. Ganondorf? Link is like up to his shoulders instead of up to his waist. Bowser? Not MUCH taller than everyone else, at least in Melee or Brawl.

Ridley can be the size of Bowser and be just fine. It makes about as much sense as anything *ever* has, especially if he is a playable character.

But if he were a boss? You're right, it doesn't make sense that Ridley is about Bowser's size. He's the boss on a stage that's like ten times his size? That's a bad idea. But what can you do.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

True, but he is always significantly, overwhelmingly large compared to Samus.
Keep in mind that size needs to make sense. Olimar the size of DK? No go, big boi!

2x bigger than Samus =/= overwhelmingly large. He is as big for Samus as Bowser is for Mario in platformer games.
That is true, but still doesn`t means that Ridley can`t be resized to size that would make sense.

Anyway, he is already confirmed (not officialy) to be near Bowser`s size in Sm4sh according to shadow`s analisys (both Bowser`s and Ridley`s).

Now i am exhausted/tired...duh...i will go back to brawlbox then.

 

[TheWozny]

People who want to argue canon, let me say this:

DOES THIS LOOK CANON TO YOU

Case and Point. Now can people stop bringing up possibly the worst reason for anybody not making it into Smash?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Eh, size shmize.

I'd have an issue if we were debating Kraid or Phantoon, but shrinking Ridley isn't that big an offense. Especially since Ridley seems more DK-like this time around.

I find the fact that Ridley's size is controversial is proof that he can be resized. I can say without any fear whatsoever that Mother Brain is too big, and no one would take me up on it or otherwise challenge my claim. Partially because her thing is being a giant brain, mostly because little people want her.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

The size argument reminds me of how one person was going on about how Ridley is so big that he's bigger than a Snorlax.

...Even though Snorlaxes are like 6 feet, 10 inches. A little bit shorter than Samus, and a lot smaller than the BIG guys in the series like DK, Bowser, or Ganondorf.

So basically, Ridley is SO GIGANTIC that he's bigger than Samus. ...Do tell.

Funny, I can't counter that Snorlax point. Then again he IS Pokeball Pokemon and only pops up occasionally.

2x bigger than Samus =/= overwhelmingly large. He is as big for Samus as Bowser is for Mario in platformer games.
That is true, but still doesn`t means that Ridley can`t be resized to size that would make sense.

Now i am exhausted/tired...duh...i will go back to brawlbox then.

Seems that you forgot the point in how they have greater liberties to resize Mario characters, as shown in all the Mario games.

 

[majora_787]

Funny, I can't counter that Snorlax point. Then again he IS Pokeball Pokemon and only pops up occasionally.



Seems that you forgot the point in how they have greater liberties to resize Mario characters, as shown in all the Mario games.

Ridley changes size between cutscenes in the same game. The point is that when Ridley functions as a boss, he is large. Is that any different from Bowser? Look at Bowser during any of his final boss fights from the N64 onward. As a boss he is not *small*. Liberties are taken as characters take on different roles. That is how resizing works.

And seriously. It's not "no longer an inconsistency" because you only see Snorlax for a LITTLE bit! Because the game is literally made out of glaring problems in terms of "canon scale". And nobody cares. Because ignoring canon scale makes the game work.

 

[JaidynReiman]

That trailer showed off 12 of Palutena's special moves, and Jump Glide is one of them. What he most likely meant was that the actual glide mechanic that Pit, Charizard, and Meta Knight shared (the one where you hold the jump button) was cut. I doubt he was referring to the Wings of Icarus move getting replaced by the Power of Flight.

Jump glide isn't actually the original "glide" mechanic from Brawl, but more of a "hover" ability like that of Peach. Ridley could easily have a hover ability, but the glide mechanic is probably gone permanently.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Eh, size shmize.

I'd have an issue if we were debating Kraid or Phantoon, but shrinking Ridley isn't that big an offense. Especially since Ridley seems more DK-like this time around.

I find the fact that Ridley's size is controversial is proof that he can be resized. I can say without any fear whatsoever that Mother Brain is too big, and no one would take me up on it or otherwise challenge my claim. Partially because her thing is being a giant brain, mostly because little people want her.

Yeah, you have a point. It's just that a mere resizing won't do the job, aesthetically at least, as seen in several screenshots of mods and hacks. They would probably have to make a model with altered proportions no other Ridley model has had to make him look right, and that is something I do not believe they have done with any other characters.

Ridley changes size between cutscenes in the same game. The point is that when Ridley functions as a boss, he is large. Is that any different from Bowser? Look at Bowser during any of his final boss fights from the N64 onward. As a boss he is not *small*. Liberties are taken as characters take on different roles. That is how resizing works.

But he can be an ally, and that is when he is small, yes I get your point and you are right on that. But Ridley, as a nonhuman, ginormous space pirate dragon thing whatever-you-want-to-call it, has never been playable and always a bawss. I find it hard to believe they will use a non-canon Ridley with resized proportions and all to fit in the the game right.

 

[majora_787]

We don't have evidence of glides being gone permanently. We hadn't seen tether recoveries for a VERY long time. All we know for sure is that Pit can't glide.

EDIT: You really don't seem to get it. Ridley is always a boss, which is why he was always large. They would resize him to be functional as a playable character if they made him playable. That is how game design works. They make characters fit the roles they put them in. And really? Why is RIDLEY the *ONLY CHARACTER* in the entire Smash Bros. series restricted to canon size? Don't say he isn't.

Not one character in any game legitimately abides by them. Not a one. But RIdley? He HAS to be twice Samus' size. AT LEAST. No matter what. He's not allowed to be handled like a video game character. Because he's a SPACE DRAGON! Is that a weak excuse? Yes, but it's an excuse that at least doesn't apply to anyone else on the roster!

... You don't see the problem here?

EDIT: Other M Ridley would work fine, especially if they tweaked it slightly to be more functional for playability.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Seems that you forgot the point in how they have greater liberties to resize Mario characters, as shown in all the Mario games.

I was talking about his common size in platformer games, not Mario Golf, Mario Kart, etc. If he isn`t that big, then he is BIGGER than that. Bowser never was smaller than he was in NSMB for example in games that are not considered spin-offs.

 

[ppbto]

True, but he is always significantly, overwhelmingly large compared to Samus.

Actually, the average size of Ridley is around the size of the new super mario bros. Bowser. There're only 2 instances where Ridley is significantly bigger than Samus and that instances are: Meta-Ridley from Metroid Prime 3 (funny thing, later in that game when you fight against Omega-Ridley he is smaller than meta-Ridley) and Ridley from Brawl.

Keep in mind that size needs to make sense. Olimar the size of DK? No go, big boi!

Sense is one of the things that you will not find in smash. I mean a puny Jiggypuff can defeat Ganondorf by sleeping.

 

[majora_787]

The moral of the story is, the basis for this entire size argument is "Ridley can't be playable because he hasn't been playable before". And that is literally *THE* weakest of all arguments in this context.

 

[NintenRob]

What really sells me that Ridley is playable is when you compare the teasing to that of another certain character.

"An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second"
"The Goddess of light watches from above"

Both were teased during the direct and made you think they won't be playable (for only a second in Palutenas case).

Why hasn't Sakurai even said Ridleys name?

 

[majora_787]

What really sells me that Ridley is playable is when you compare the teasing to that of another certain character.

"An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second"
"The Goddess of light watches from above"

Both were teased during the direct and made you think they won't be playable (for only a second in Palutenas case).

Why hasn't Sakurai even said Ridleys name?

His name is too big, obviously.

 

[EchoesOfRain]

One thing we have not seen is Sakurai do is make someone who has always and consistently been overwhelmingly large boss into playable character. We have seen characters being incredibly small such as Olimar who is canonically an inch tall, become a feasible size in Smash, but we have yet to see the extreme other side of the spectrum. And, as pointed out in my previous points in regards to the other big bois of Smash, Ridley fits the bill as being on the extreme other end of the spectrum

His size has varied in the past, but these are examples of some of bowser's biggest appearances. This is common. I believe the smallest he's appeared is in Mario Kart, where he HAS to be resized.

Other than Mario Kart, his closest-to-smash size would be something like

Yet he's STILL much larger than mario.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Jump glide isn't actually the original "glide" mechanic from Brawl, but more of a "hover" ability like that of Peach. Ridley could easily have a hover ability, but the glide mechanic is probably gone permanently.

You missed it big boi, Jump Glide is one of Palutena's interchangeable Special Attacks. And @ majora_787 is right, they haven't shown the glide mechanic for other characters and it could be cut just for Pit.

Actually, the average size of Ridley is around the size of the new super mario bros. Bowser. There're only 2 instances where Ridley is significantly bigger than Samus and that instances are: Meta-Ridley from Metroid Prime 3 (funny thing, later in that game when you fight against Omega-Ridley he is smaller than meta-Ridley) and Ridley from Brawl.


Keep in mind that size needs to make sense. Olimar the size of DK? No go, big boi!
Sense is the one of the things that you will not find in smash. I mean a puny Jiggypuff can defeat Ganondorf by sleeping.

Attacks don't pertain to my argument. There are things that make sense in Smash, despite all the nonsense in the game. For example, Bowser being bigger than Mario. Why are all the non-Smash Bros-exclusive bosses in SSBB bosses? Because they have been bosses! And yes, Petey and Rayquaza have been playable, but what are they all known for being? Bosses. And for Raquayza? A dope Pokemon who is also Emerald's version mascot.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

The moral of the story is, the basis for this entire size argument is "Ridley can't be playable because he hasn't been playable before". And that is literally *THE* weakest of all arguments in this context.

There is weaker arguments:
He is too scary, he is just a boss, he doesn`t deserves that spot, i want someone else instead, Adam did not authorized that, he looks stupid, JUST DON`T ADD THAT B***H - I HATE HATE HATE THAT F***ER HE JUST CAN`T DIE NO MATTER HOW MUCH I TRY!
I heard about all of them...except for 2 of them.

 

[ppbto]

@ Jerry Applesauce , Let put this in a simple way, what are your arguments against Ridley's playability? Please without opinionated arguments.

 

[majora_787]

His size has varied in the past, but these are examples of some of bowser's biggest appearances. This is common. I believe the smallest he's appeared is in Mario Kart, where he HAS to be resized.

Other than Mario Kart, his closest-to-smash size would be something like

Yet he's STILL much larger than mario.

You mean kind of like...

Huh. It's ALMOST like... Bowser may have been RESIZED for PLAYABILITY! Just speculation though.

 

[ppbto]

You mean kind of like...

Huh. It's ALMOST like... Bowser may have been RESIZED for PLAYABILITY! Just speculation though.

Nah.. that's impossible canon is a sacred thing that mustn't never be broken.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

His size has varied in the past, but these are examples of some of bowser's biggest appearances. This is common. I believe the smallest he's appeared is in Mario Kart, where he HAS to be resized.

Other than Mario Kart, his closest-to-smash size would be something like

Yet he's STILL much larger than mario.

Yeah, goes to show how much he varies in size.

 

[darksamus77]

As a wise man (and myself posted earlier) said when it comes to Smash characters:

SIZE MATTERS NOT

 

[majora_787]

Also just saying, "past roles dictate future roles" is factually false even with Smash Bros. Ridley has had a different role in every Smash Bros. If characters couldn't stop being one role to become playable, we'd have no Dedede. No Wolf. No Villager. No Charizard. No Little Mac. Because they were always ITEMS or BACKGROUND characters in Smash Bros.! They just *FIT* better as non-playable characters.

..........


EDIT: You literally just cited NES Bowser. If you're going to cite NES Bowser, we get to cite NES Ridley. Them's the brakes.

EDIT 2: In all of those except for Super Mario RPG, Bowser was at the very least clearly over twice Mario's height. So I mean. You know.