Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Deleted member]

You see, the delusional people are those who think we're getting anyone from Metroid that name isn't Ridley

 

[Zem-raj]

What does one thing have to do with the other?

Well Pit has been in two games. Let's face it : Metroid clearly has a greater fan base and it would have made sense to announce a Metroid character way before when ZSS was. The lack of a recent game clearly had an effect on the title's promotion (hello Starfox; could've already fixed the clone problem).

Problem with this:

• Pit has been in 3 games, not 2: Kid Icarus (NES), Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB), Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS).
• Zero Suit Samus has a different move set to Samus, despite being the same character. Obviously Zero Suit Samus would be featured on the roster before other Metroid characters as she's a veteran and is part of Samus (Main protagonists are always featured first on the roster, then sidekicks, villains, etc).
• Sakurai wouldn't announce more than one newcomer during the SSB Direct, that's why we had 1 newcomer and 4 veterans. He needed to keep some newcomers for E3.
• Ridley's best place to be announced is at E3: E3 is a big event, being held in a convention centre based in Los Angeles, USA - a country where Ridley is really popular (Ridley's popular in Europe too, but I'm making a point here).
• Metroid's recent game was Other M in 2010, which was a brand new title. A Metroid theme (Metroid Blast) was featured as part of Nintendo Land, a 2012 WiiU game, and Nintendo have mentioned about thinking of the possibility the direction Metroid could go in. Nintendo Land didn't feature any Kirby, Star Fox, or Pokémon elements in it.
• Reggie was wearing a Metroid pin at VGX, which possibly shows that Nintendo are aware that fans want a new Metroid game.

Points for people who think hunters or others are better suited for roster than Ridley:

• Ridley's the only other Metroid character, besides Samus, who really REALLY deserves a spot on the roster. He's Samus' arch nemesis, is linked to Samus' past (pre-Metroid), has been in 8 out of 11 games, has a sadistic, bloodthirsty, intelligent and stubborn personality which makes him a true villain, and refuses to die despite Samus defeating him numerous times (hence stubborn personality).
• Dark Samus, the next best candidate, is an Assist Trophy.
• The hunters are one-off unimportant characters that hardly made a dent in the Metroid series.
• Mother Brain's an Assist Trophy (she wouldn't work).
• Other M characters: Adam Malcovich just showed up in Other M, died, and would just be generic to play. And Anthony... no... NO... DEFINITELY NO. Hence why Ridley's the best choice.
• Choosing a one-shot characters like the hunters over Ridley would be like choosing Wart (from Super Mario Bros. 2) over Bowser, Ghirahim (Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword) over Ganondorf, Magolor (Kirby Adventure Wii/Returns to Dream Land) over King Dedede... it would just be wrong.

Sakurai would be a fool to choose the hunters over Ridley, especially since Ridley's more popular than them and has been a staple of the Metroid series.

 

[ppbto]

Sakurai might change his opinions on things like Villager, but that doesn't mean he'll change his opinions on other things. My point is, Sakurai already feels that Metroid has gotten another character besides Samus, and probably isn't in a hurry rush to add another Metroid newcomer, especially when it's apparent that Sakurai most likely sees Ridley as a boss character and not much more.

Assumptions a assumptions everywhere. You can't prove any of this. You're not Sakurai you can't know how he feels about the matter.

The problem with Metroid, as far as playable SSB characters go, is that the series only really has one practical, important character, that being Samus. With Metroid essentially being a series about isolation

This is totally subjective.

either every one else is a giant monster like Ridley or an insignificant, one-off character like the MPH/3 hunters or Anthony Higgs.

Ridley is the nemesis of Samus. How that make him a non important character?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Well, at least to me, it seemed as though Sakurai announced Zero Suit Samus since there was no other viable Metroid character; it was as if he was saying that Ridley wouldn't work. And aside from I guess Fox (and Yoshi) being the only veteran without another representative [no clone announcements yet either i.e. C. Falcon brings Ganon with him] somebody had to be confirmed for one of Nintendo's oldest and biggest series. I'd be pretty shocked if he's announced, but then again I don't think they would have him playable at something like the invitational. At this rate it seems like there's going to be around 10 new characters and I feel like he is just pushing the roster...

Sakurai's reasoning for adding ZSS was for the reason of basically padding out the Metroid roster. http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update



I don't think that really paints a pretty picture for Ridley. After all, if you were going to add another Metroid character besides Samus, wouldn't you of picked that character who has been her most noteworthy and prominent adversary for decades?

In other words, ZSS's inclusion heavily implies to me that Sakurai didn't (and still doesn't) see Ridley as a practical choice, but still felt Metroid deserved another character, so another form of Samus was the best he could come up with, I'm afraid.

 

[majora_787]

You know, the "Ridley as a playable boss on the gamepad" is the most exasperating thing I've heard. Every time I hear it, I hope that this is the farthest thing from what happens. That would be Sakurai going "Here is a really underwhelming boss that we definitely could have made into a playable character. You can play as him ANYWAY, but only on this one stage."

 

[Zem-raj]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said that there'd be no gimmicks with the Gamepad anyway, just a normal fighting game with actual controls. So that pretty much throws the "fifth player uses Gamepad to control boss Ridley, whilst other 4 players battle it out on Pyrosphere" theory. Plus doing that theory kind of slaps Ridley fans in the faces, and says "playable Ridley, but only on one stage ", rather than being 100% playable (which is what we want)...

 

[majora_787]

All that remains is whether Ridley is a big beefy newcomer or a scrawny little boss.

 

[Dinoman96]

Ridley is the nemesis of Samus. How that make him a non important character?

When did I say he was an non-important character? I was saying everyone in Metroid besides Samus is either large (Ridley) or a one-off character like Anthony.

 

[majora_787]

Being large apparently doesn't matter for Ridley, considering how much downsizing has been done.

 

[Exegguter]

What does one thing have to do with the other?

Well Pit has been in two games and everyone wants Palutena. Let's face it: Metroid clearly has a greater fan base and it would have made sense to announce a Metroid character way earlier than when ZSS was. The lack of a recent game clearly had an effect on the title's promotion (take Starfox for example; plus they could've already fixed the clone problems I announce another character).[/quote]

I honestly do NOT want Palutena in. I hope she will NOT make it. I fail to understand how you are all so sure she will make it a 100%? There's more signs of ridley being playable than her imo and nobody's a 100% sure of him. What? Just because there's 1 pit icarus character, pit's final smash changed and the psuedetrophie? That's really not a 100% confirm..

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I honestly do NOT want Palutena in. I hope she will NOT make it. I fail to understand how you are all so sure she will make it a 100%? There's more signs of ridley being playable than her imo and nobody's a 100% sure of him. What? Just because there's 1 pit icarus character, pit's final smash changed and the psuedetrophie? That's really not a 100% confirm..

That and two leaks which have survived for over half a year, one being an image leak too. Plus, Sakurai created Kid Icarus: Uprising, and he's no stranger to being very biased. All signs point to Palutena, even if I've become pretty tired of her due to certain supporters' snooty attitudes, though I'm sure they could say the same about us.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I honestly do NOT want Palutena in. I hope she will NOT make it. I fail to understand how you are all so sure she will make it a 100%? There's more signs of ridley being playable than her imo and nobody's a 100% sure of him. What? Just because there's 1 pit icarus character, pit's final smash changed and the psuedetrophie? That's really not a 100% confirm..

I'd rather have Ridley, Bandana Dee, K Rool, Isaac, PacMan, Mii, and Shulk before Palutena let alone any other KI reps. But that's my opinion and I understand people want 1 or 2 more KI reps for some reason.

But the evidence is there for Palutena I'd say more than Ridley. Considering she's in Gematsu leak and was teased in the direct and she's not in Pit's final smash.

I think Ridley is in though

 

[AustarusIV]

When did I say he was an non-important character? I was saying everyone in Metroid besides Samus is either large (Ridley) or a one-off character like Anthony.

Since when was being large a defining characteristic of Ridley?

 

[majora_787]

Well Pit has been in two games and everyone wants Palutena. Let's face it: Metroid clearly has a greater fan base and it would have made sense to announce a Metroid character way earlier than when ZSS was. The lack of a recent game clearly had an effect on the title's promotion (take Starfox for example; plus they could've already fixed the clone problems I announce another character).

I honestly do NOT want Palutena in. I hope she will NOT make it. I fail to understand how you are all so sure she will make it a 100%? There's more signs of ridley being playable than her imo and nobody's a 100% sure of him. What? Just because there's 1 pit icarus character, pit's final smash changed and the psuedetrophie? That's really not a 100% confirm..[/quote]

The fake 3DS leaks fueling expectations aside, Kid Icarus is getting a ridiculous amount of attention this game, and many are expecting that it will end up like Kirby did in Brawl. With a good increase in content, along with one or two newcomers (Palutena/Medusa). I don't know why people are 100% certain, though I would consider it about 95% certain that Kid Icarus will be seeing a newcomer.

And really, it's just bias shenanigans where people go "Sakurai hinted at Palutena? Playable. Sakurai hinted at Ridley? Boss." It's awkward to watch but hey whatever.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Well Pit has been in two games and everyone wants Palutena. Let's face it: Metroid clearly has a greater fan base and it would have made sense to announce a Metroid character way earlier than when ZSS was. The lack of a recent game clearly had an effect on the title's promotion (take Starfox for example; plus they could've already fixed the clone problems I announce another character).

I honestly do NOT want Palutena in. I hope she will NOT make it. I fail to understand how you are all so sure she will make it a 100%? There's more signs of ridley being playable than her imo and nobody's a 100% sure of him. What? Just because there's 1 pit icarus character, pit's final smash changed and the psuedetrophie? That's really not a 100% confirm..[/quote]

To be clear, I never said Palutena has more of a chance of being in Smash 4 than Ridley; I simply got bombarded for stating my opinion, and never quoted sources to try to conjure up facts, I just pitted together what I think.

 

[Exegguter]

That and two leaks which have survived for over half a year, one being an image leak too. Plus, Sakurai created Kid Icarus: Uprising, and he's no stranger to being very biased. All signs point to Palutena, even if I've become pretty tired of her due to certain supporters' snooty attitudes, though I'm sure they could say the same about us.

So? This does not mean she'll be in a 100%. We don't even know if she'll appear (even as a trophie). It's just assumptions just like with ridley.

She looks hella basic and boring and I'm getting sick of her name... My hate for her is growing by the day tbh.

I'd rather have Ridley, Bandana Dee, K Rool, Isaac, PacMan, Mii, and Shulk before Palutena let alone any other KI reps. But that's my opinion and I understand people want 1 or 2 more KI reps for some reason.

That's excatly what I'm thinking. I don't want another fire emblem/kid icarus rep. Please stay out...........

I'd rather even have the 3 prismas (second boss) from kirby and the crystal shards XDDDDD


EDIT: huh?? you guys are quoting me wrong I don't understand anymore XD

 

[majora_787]

They're called Pix, first off. And people mostly want Palutena because she's important to Kid Icarus, same reason people want Medusa. That really doesn't interfere with Ridley shenanigans in any way. I mean me personally I would much prefer Medusa since she actually has much less bland or already existing moveset potential while maintaining importance to the series. BUT

that doesn't have much to do with Ridley and his thread and his shenanigans.

 

[AustarusIV]

I already believe Palutena is a lock, even though I'm not a Kid Icarus fan. I'm not surprised at this inevitable outcome; Sakurai was bound to inject some of his bias into the game's roster.

I'm more concerned that Sakurai might not give any attention to the Metroid series after its hiatus in 2010.

 

[Exegguter]

They're called Pix, first off. And people mostly want Palutena because she's important to Kid Icarus, same reason people want Medusa. That really doesn't interfere with Ridley shenanigans in any way.

Ahh yeah Pix lmao <3


I looked up Medusa. She looks way more awesome than this dumb ***** Palutena smh. If we're getting another KI rep I'm hoping it's her.

 

[majora_787]

Sakurai has redesigned Samus, Zero Suit Samus, indicated that Ridley may well be playable and a central object of hype, and gave Metroid a pretty nice looking stage. I dunno, I think he's treating it pretty nicely. He also have it like two additional assist trophies.

EDIT: I'm not trying to start a Kid Icarus argument in the Ridley thread, if anything I'm trying to defuse it. xD Full disclosure, I hope we get both.

 

[Snagrio]

I know Ridley and Palutena have some sort of parallel when it comes to speculation, but this is the RIDLEY thread here guys.

Just trying to keep us on track.

Majora'd

 

[Reila]

There are people in the world who don't want Ridley and Palutena in Smash?

 

[majora_787]

Sorry, I'm trying to help reel it in a bit. The Ridley thread is too enthusiastically powerful. I can't handle it.

EDIT: Also I feel like such a nerd wow. Why did I remember that random boss's official name off the top of my head from a game I haven't played in years. Next thing you know I'll remember random Metroid enemy names.

Like that one guy who's too big. What's his name? Rodney?

 

[Deleted member]

The problem with Metroid, as far as playable SSB characters go, is that the series only really has one practical, important character, that being Samus. With Metroid essentially being a series about isolation, either every one else is a giant monster like Ridley or an insignificant, one-off character like the MPH/3 hunters or Anthony Higgs.

Ridley is the character that has made the most recurring appearance out of all Metroid games. Ridley has a very deep and personal connection with Samus. When Samus was a child, Ridley killed her parents right on front of her, forever cementing Samus's absolute hatred of Ridley. Typically, he strikes when unexpected and when Samus feels that Ridley is out of her sight for good.

He's one of the most important existing series characters left that has yet to be playable. For that along with him being the West's most wanted Nintendo newcomer, Ridley is a character worthy of playability status.

I highly doubt Ridley will ever be playable, but if he doesn't make it in, it won't be because Ridley isn't important enough, it'll be because Sakurai doesn't see Ridley as worth the time working on such a difficult character.

 

[GraveJoker]

Ugh, arguing with my friend again. His argument: He can have terrible animation since its not a subspace boss, that is a higher caliber, so he can have a terrible animation.

 

[majora_787]

Ugh, arguing with my friend again. His argument: He can have terrible animation since its not a subspace boss, that is a higher caliber, so he can have a terrible animation.

Can be be so small and slow on such a big stage that the boss fight is shattered to pieces by characters like Fox, Pikachu, or even Samus because he's not a Subspace boss?

 

[Protom]

If we don't see Ridley at the digital event I'd be very worried. If we didn't see him and pyrosphere was a stage in the tourney., we'd likely see him as a STage hazard.

 

[Reila]

If we don't see Ridley at the digital event I'd be very worried. If we didn't see him and pyrosphere was a stage in the tourney., we'd likely see him as a STage hazard.

Yeah, I don't think they would waste the opportunity of revealing a hype character like Ridley at the digital event.

If he isn't revealed there, I will certainly be worried.

 

[Dinoman96]

Ridley is the character that has made the most recurring appearance out of all Metroid games. Ridley has a very deep and personal connection with Samus. When Samus was a child, Ridley killed her parents right on front of her, forever cementing Samus's absolute hatred of Ridley. Typically, he strikes when unexpected and when Samus feels that Ridley is out of her sight for good.

He's one of the most important existing series characters left that has yet to be playable. For that along with him being the West's most wanted Nintendo newcomer, Ridley is a character worthy of playability status.

I highly doubt Ridley will ever be playable, but if he doesn't make it in, it won't be because Ridley isn't important enough, it'll be because Sakurai doesn't see Ridley as worth the time working on such a difficult character.

Once again, I wasn't implying that Ridley wasn't important. I said everyone in Metroid besides Samus is either large or unimportant, and Ridley, while important, falls into the former category.

Controversy time: I do think size is a characteristic of Ridley. His largeness is what gives him a menacing edge and also allows him to pick up Samus and throw her or scrape her against a wall. His boss fight is intense in Super Metroid because he's a big flying thing that's constantly trying to ram into you, giving you very little space. I'm just not convinced that Sakurai thinks its possible to convert that into a playable character.

 

[majora_787]

The demo is on Wednesday. Nintendo would have until 1pm, which is a four hour gap for them to throw out any announcements on Wednesday. At that point, one of three things is going to happen.

1) Ridley is either announced prior to the demo, or we play on Pyrosphere and Ridley doesn't appear. Confirmed.
2) Ridley appears on the Pyrosphere. Maximum sadface.
3) The Pyrosphere, one of the most shown stages there are, is mysteriously removed from the demo. I would consider this a confirmation, but that's just me.

EDIT: The issue is, it's not about whether Sakurai CAN or WOULD change Ridley's size. He already has. The issue is, did Sakurai massively downscale Ridley to make him a very small boss, OR did he massively downscale Ridley to make him a playable character?

 

[Protom]

Yeah, I don't think they would waste the opportunity of revealing a hype character like Ridley at the digital event.

If he isn't revealed there, I will certainly be worried.

Yup, that's why E3 will really be the moment of truth. Either cheers or jeers for Ridley fans.
(Or he's not revealed, but nothing is revealed about pyrosphere, and pyrosphere isn't a stage in the tourney or demo, and we are just forced to wait till the 3ds version comes out to see his fate)

 

[majora_787]

Yup, that's why E3 will really be the moment of truth. Either cheers or jeers for Ridley fans.
(Or he's not revealed, but nothing is revealed about pyrosphere, and pyrosphere isn't a stage in the tourney or demo, and we are just forced to wait till the 3ds version comes out to see his fate)

If they draw it out that much, that basically would cement him as a playable character OR Sakurai as really out of touch for me. It's one thing to think a character tons of people want playable would be just as well received as a boss, but to think they would be well received at all as a poorly designed boss? Yeeeeh no.

 

[SchAlternate]

Once again, I wasn't implying that Ridley wasn't important. I said everyone in Metroid besides Samus is either large or unimportant, and Ridley, while important, falls into the former category.

Controversy time: I do think size is a characteristic of Ridley. His largeness is what gives him a menacing edge and also allows him to pick up Samus and throw her or scrape her against a wall. His boss fight is intense in Super Metroid because he's a big flying thing that's constantly trying to ram into you, giving you very little space. I'm just not convinced that Sakurai thinks its possible to convert that into a playable character.

Ironically, Ridley is actually one of the smallest bosses in the Metroid series, only beaten by humanoid villains like Dark Samus. Other bosses have their fights based on their size (like Kraid, Quadraxis, etc), but Ridley isn't one of them.

 

[Protom]

The issue is, it's not about whether Sakurai CAN or WOULD change Ridley's size. He already has. The issue is, did Sakurai massively downscale Ridley to make him a very small boss, OR did he massively downscale Ridley to make him a playable character?

Hmm. have there been any pics comparing Ridleys estimated size to the yellow devil?

 

[majora_787]

Hmm. have there been any pics comparing Ridleys estimated size to the yellow devil?

http://i.imgur.com/JYtO27w.jpg

This picture contains a comparison between Ridley's shadow on Pyrosphere, Pikachu from the exact same camera angle, Bowser, and Bowser's own shadow on Pyrosphere. It's worth noting that Yellow Devil is basically twice Bowser's size, maybe slightly larger. He takes up a much wider and taller area.

If you were to take two Bowsers, put them side by side, and put two Bowsers on top of them, not only is that close to Yellow Devil's size, that's close to Brawl Ridley as well.

Which is bizarre, since using Bowser as a common component, Pyrosphere is just as big if not slightly longer than Ridley's boss stage in Brawl. So they made... a Bowser-sized Ridley for a very large stage which has platforms. This just doesn't seem very well set up for Ridley to be a boss at all.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Hmm. have there been any pics comparing Ridleys estimated size to the yellow devil?

Yo. (Pictured: Ridley's largest possible size, smallest possible size, and the Yellow Devil)

If need be, I can show you how I came to this conclusion.

 

[Arcanir]

Controversy time: I do think size is a characteristic of Ridley. His largeness is what gives him a menacing edge and also allows him to pick up Samus and throw her or scrape her against a wall. His boss fight is intense in Super Metroid because he's a big flying thing that's constantly trying to ram into you, giving you very little space. I'm just not convinced that Sakurai thinks its possible to convert that into a playable character.

Not really, when it comes to the character, he was never defined by his size, he was defined by his fierceness and flying abilities. In Super for instance, he was the smallest of the bosses and was tough because he could swoop in and hit you and then fly off and ready himself for the next attack. Size was hardly the factor that played into that battle, and hell, if he was any larger, it probably wouldn't have been as effective.

Also, I never really got that size made him intimidating, size is only a factor. If you look at any real world animals that people fear, a great number of those are actually smaller then humans, but we fear them for what they can do, not for how they outscale us. Ridley is the same way, he's feared by Samus for his connection to her past, and by us because he's always an intense battle, if size was meant to be defining, he'd be like Kraid and always at a constant size rather then resizing at a whim.

Personally, I have my doubts on Ridley, but I don't think size is or ever will be a sufficient reason for his exclusion. I think the problems would lie elsewhere rather then something that's never been defining for him, nor an issue before.

 

[Protom]

http://i.imgur.com/JYtO27w.jpg

This picture contains a comparison between Ridley's shadow on Pyrosphere, Pikachu from the exact same camera angle, Bowser, and Bowser's own shadow on Pyrosphere. It's worth noting that Yellow Devil is basically twice Bowser's size, maybe slightly larger. He takes up a much wider and taller area.

If you were to take two Bowsers, put them side by side, and put two Bowsers on top of them, not only is that close to Yellow Devil's size, that's close to Brawl Ridley as well.

Which is bizarre, since using Bowser as a common component, Pyrosphere is just as big if not slightly longer than Ridley's boss stage in Brawl. So they made... a Bowser-sized Ridley for a very large stage which has platforms. This just doesn't seem very well set up for Ridley to be a boss at all.

Hmm. I don't see why sakurai would make a boos character (if he is one, which I now doubt a lot ) be so small compared to other bosses.

Also found a pic to compare bowser to yellow devil. Bowser is crawling or crouching though, but even then I. See how yellow devil is twice his size:

 

[majora_787]

Provided Ridley's size, this raises so many questions. If he is a boss, then why would he be so small? On top of that, his movement speed is clocked at just barely faster than Pikachu's half-walking speed, which is the second slowest speed Pikachu is able to move at. This is easily determined by the animation. When fighting a boss or in a match, everyone will be moving at FULL SPEED around this stage. Fast characters with projectiles will be VERY easily able to break a boss battle against a Bowser-sized Ridley moving through the air at a slow speed.

And why the platforms? The platforms make it even worse, unless they're for RIDLEY to use because of how small he is.

This is why I have said numerous times. The most disappointing thing of Ridley's deconfirmation won't be Ridley not being playable. From what we've seen, he won't even be an enjoyable boss.

EDIT: Unless of course, what we saw in the direct was completely different from Ridley as a boss.

But then where does *THAT* leave us?

 

[Reila]

Ridley's size is completely irrelevant in the (arguably) most intense boss battle against him:

Spoiler

I do agree that grabbing Samus (or any other enemy of him, most likely) is a major characteristic of Ridley, but he could still do that even if downsized.