Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Chandeelure]

Oh god.
Brace yourselves, Shokio is coming XD

 

[Arcadenik]

If you want to support Ridley and wish for his inclusion for Smash 4, I'm not going to tell you to stop. Maybe I'm going overboard on you guys.

But don't fabricate things for the sake of hope. You must play with the cards you are dealt. The cards are on the table. We have facts in front of us. You must admit, the evidence points towards the fact that Ridley is a boss on Pyrosphere.

I have made up my mind, and have come to peace with it.

This. I also made peace with Toad not being playable for the umpteenth time.

 

[majora_787]

If you want to support Ridley and wish for his inclusion for Smash 4, I'm not going to tell you to stop. Maybe I'm going overboard on you guys.

But don't fabricate things for the sake of hope. You must play with the cards you are dealt. The cards are on the table. We have facts in front of us. You must admit, the evidence points towards the fact that Ridley is a boss on Pyrosphere.

I have made up my mind, and have come to peace with it.

We have plenty of facts.

- Ridley was called a boss character. Which is true. He is in most of his appearances.
- Ridley appears on Pyrosphere. That is an obvious fact at this point.

What is NOT a fact is saying "Ridley is a boss on pyrosphere just like Yellow Devil". That is an assumption made based off implications and is not an actual fact that is on the table as a fact.

People can have what hope they want as long as Sakurai continues to leave doors open for ambiguity.

 

[Starcutter]

Look, my most wanted, kamek, is disconfirmed. I accept that. Why do people think that I'm just holding out Hope? That footage in the direct was just oddly..... Odd. No questions about it. No idea what's going on but it seems they were hiding something.

 

[Deleted member]

This is precisely why being a Smash boss does NOT do Ridley justice in the slightest, and it's garbage when people use this as justification for keeping him as a boss. It's character assassination on an Other M level to have Ridley just boredly float about, occasionally breathing fire or occasionally scratching at opponents, while they freely outmaneuver him and pummel him out of the sky like a purple punching bag. I really hope this is Sakurai's last Smash game, based on Ridley's "reveal" tonight.

I think it will. It seems as Sakurai is trying to put in as much content as he wants into the game. This game really does feel like a finale of sort to the series and Sakurai treats each game as if it was the last. Plus Sakurai also has health issues to worry about (one of his arm was reported to be in pain due to Calcific tendinitis for a long period of time) and after this game, he needs to focus on getting well.

So not only will this be Sakurai's last game, it may also be the end of the series. Even if not, at least it will be for me (irrespective of Ridley's inclusion).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You say this, but what evidence? You mean assumptions? You're saying to stop speculating because assumptions were made due to the lack of context or details? And you can't assume Sakurai was pulling any sort of fast one when he literally did it three other times in that same direct?

You can feel free to sit outside the Ridley thread if you are going to sit and argue at people with your "Let's drown out speculation because of assumptions" shenanigans. People are already unhappy, and we don't need that kind of thing.

The problem is that there IS context. He teased Ridley in the section of the Direct that involved Bosses and what they did on their respective stages.

Showing actual footage of a character is different than teasing characters without showing actual footage of them in a separate role. Sure, he teased Palutena by using a Pseudo Palutena trophy, but that didn't lead to Palutena being shown in a particular role.

Zero Suit Samus wouldn't have any other role, and he admitted he lied right away. I don't know the other thing he pulled, but there is certainly context.

 

[DraginHikari]

You say this, but what evidence? You mean assumptions? You're saying to stop speculating because assumptions were made due to the lack of context or details? And you can't assume Sakurai was pulling any sort of fast one when he literally did it three other times in that same direct?

You can feel free to sit outside the Ridley thread if you are going to sit and argue at people with your "Let's drown out speculation because of assumptions" shenanigans. People are already unhappy, and we don't need that kind of thing.

Speculation is fine in the absent of evidence. Currently with the evidence present the speculation holds less ground is a whole. The word of the developer of the game with his words reflecting in a fairly clear situation currently mean more then our speculation can provide us. Is it possible that Sakurai is messing with us, yes. But there is no evidence for it.

 

[Starcutter]

If you want to support Ridley and wish for his inclusion for Smash 4, I'm not going to tell you to stop. Maybe I'm going overboard on you guys.

But don't fabricate things for the sake of hope. You must play with the cards you are dealt. The cards are on the table. We have facts in front of us. You must admit, the evidence points towards the fact that Ridley is a boss on Pyrosphere.

I have made up my mind, and have come to peace with it.

It's not hope if Ridley isn't even that far up in my most wanted.

Ugh.

Can't we just have our suspicions and agree to disagree?

 

[Sehnsucht]

Speculation is fine in the absent of evidence. Currently with the evidence present the speculation holds less ground is a whole. The word of the developer of the game with his words reflecting in a fairly clear situation currently mean more then our speculation can provide us. Is it possible that Sakurai is messing with us, yes. But there is no evidence for it.

If that's the case, then I'm more than game to "speculate" for the next 3-4 months.

 

[majora_787]

The problem is that there IS context. He teased Ridley in the section of the Direct that involved Bosses and what they did on their respective stages.

Showing actual footage of a character is different than teasing characters without showing actual footage of them in a separate role. Sure, he teased Palutena by using a Pseudo Palutena trophy, but that didn't lead to Palutena being shown in a particular role.

Zero Suit Samus wouldn't have any other role, and he admitted he lied right away. I don't know the other thing he pulled, but there is certainly context.

And at what point was anything explicitly said with no room for ambiguity? I'd love to see that.

And actual footage? You mean the actual footage of Ridley's shadow deliberately recorded so we couldn't see his scale, proportions, or activities while he acted in a way obviously extremely unusual for a boss?

And why would Sakurai treat this the same way as Zero Suit Samus? With Zero Suit Samus, he says she is cut explicitly. Leaves it alone for a few months, comes out, and says he was joking. Well he wasn't making a joke, he was explicitly lying.

He shows Ridley in a context that implies a role without explicitly saying or showing anything as fact. X period of time later, it is shown to have been depicted that way to build up surprise for a massively requested newcomer.

They are not the same situation, no matter how much you want to claim they are. And implications are not irrefutable facts, as much as you want to claim otherwise.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's not hope if Ridley isn't even that far up in my most wanted.

Ugh.

Can't we just have our suspicions and agree to disagree?

Yes, you can hope. All I'm saying is to not make things up/blow things out of proportion to create hope, because that's just more disappointment.

@ majora_787 He literally had JUST covered Yellow Devil, and then hinted at Ridley. Ridley's tail is seen in the footage, and as I said (which I think a LOT of people are avoiding) is the large size of the shadow. That is far larger than any playable character. Like TOO BIG for a playable character. Ridley isn't going to be that size if he's playable. That wouldn't make sense. At all.

The caption for that clip says something basically in regards to "Other Bosses on Other Stages". Ridley, or at least his tail, is seen on the stage.

It might not be "confirmed fact". But he certainly has a lot more against him now. What is fact is that he was referenced one way or another in a section about Boss Fights. There is NOTHING pointing towards him being playable at this point in time.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Zero Suit Samus, Phosphora, and maybe the psuedo Palutena.

The only times to my knowledge that Sakurai has ever legitimately "trolled," and which case each attempt he has always immediately rectified it by confirming otherwise to not completely kill people's hopes.

Sakurai is only some sort of master "troll" because not only does the fanbase seem to not know what trolling actually is, but because its an unfortunately inaccurate meme that has far out stayed its welcome similar to the "Final Destination Only" meme (now possibly becoming true because of hilariously stupid and completely-missing-the-point "For Glory" mode online. *Sigh*, Sakurai just doesn't get it, does he?).

Sakurai being vague or being unpredictable by the community standards = "Trolling" by Smash fan's logic. Don't believe me? Just venture into the PotD thread if you don't believe me. Unlike what the entire fanbase would have you believe, Sakurai does not go out of his way at every waking moment to "troll", mislead, or get reactions out of people. He, like every other developer on the face of the planet, may be a bit vague with their information in order to build hype, suspense and discussion, and will make decisions, both good and bad, that people may not expect but otherwise Sakurai being a troll is a flat out lie if I ever heard one.

There is nothing wrong with keeping hope, and yes we can't forget Toon Link and Ridley not being shown. But people have very good reason to not have any expectations of playability anymore. If we only take in the evidence provided with us, he was teased to be a possible boss on Pyrosphere. "Trolling" or not, this is an undeniable fact. What empirical evidence do we have that Ridley is playable by this point? We can speculate and theorize all day, but it doesn't change the fact that we have no evidence at this point that Ridley will be anything more then a boss. None. Name me one undeniable truth that Ridley will be playable. Even if a part of me wants to hold on to hope (it may not sound like it, but I still have tiniest bit of hope), a part me of also realizes that ****ing Greninja was announced, pretty much proof that Smash speculation hasn't gotten us anywhere. So I see no reason why I should put more faith in the "he's not shown, Sakurai is "trolling" speculation now as anything more then wishful thinking (that I personally still pray that might come true).

I'm not saying that you should be going full on "It's done, it's over" like Scoliosis Jones, or pretty much stop caring all together like UltimateWario, but all I ask is that you guys be a little more realistic about the current situation and really evaluate the entire situation here and the evidence presented. Unfortunately, there is a good chance that he won't be playable. All hope is not lost, but lower those expectations please. I don't want to see more hurt from you guys

Sakurai doesn't need to go out of his way to tease the fanbase. The opportunities naturally come to him.

Also, you want empirical evidence that a character is playable based on his shadow? But it's so much more fun to speculate and extrapolate a moveset! What would you have us do for the rest of the year, talk about ways to defeat Ridley's shadow and bemoan his nonplayable state based on heavy contextualization without blatant confirmation?

 

[Welshy91]

We should probably just wait about 60 days. E3 might be able to shed some more light. If E3 doesn't reveal what we want to know, there's always the game's release.

 

[majora_787]

What is blowing things out of proportion? Looking at what we have and seeing the issues in the implications? That's all I've been seeing. And even then a lot of people are also convinced entirely that it was a complete solid deconfirmation. I'm not trying to guide people down some ridiculous thing of "Ridley is confirmed because of this" because he isn't. I am pointing out that this is suspicious and it's not over yet, so we should stick together as a community while we can.

 

[DraginHikari]

If that's the case, then I'm more than game to "speculate" for the next 3-4 months.

That's perfectly fine really, I'm not going out of my way to try to change anyone's mind on the issue more so then giving my view on the issue and I've more or less said my piece for the time being. I just feel it's important to sometimes state these things for people that may not be so certain. I do not feel speculation with the absence of evidence is not a particularly productive thing for this community to do.

Believe me I hate to see things coming down to this point, as this was one of the most tightly knit groups on this forum. As of right now though when it comes to the development team, they appear to have reached a different conclusion in relation to the character. So unless evidence proves something more down the road. I will more then likely leave it be and simply accept the loss.

 

[BKupa666]

I think it will. It seems as Sakurai is trying to put in as much content as he wants into the game. This game really does feel like a finale of sort to the series and Sakurai treats each game as if it was the last. Plus Sakurai also has health issues to worry about (one of his arm was reported to be in pain due to Calcific tendinitis for a long period of time) and after this game, he needs to focus on getting well.

So not only will this be Sakurai's last game, it may also be the end of the series. Even if not, at least it will be for me (irrespective of Ridley's inclusion).

Welcome back. I agree that it'll be his last, but I do believe the franchise will outlive him, based on how profitable it is. The general public buying Smash games does not give two damns who's developing them so long as they're of quality, and so long as a handful of series veterans are kept onboard, I'm sure that quality can be maintained, Sakurai or not.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

What?? That's happening? If it's in my thread, point it out so I can chew out whoever was behind that. You're right, the fanbases are supposed to be close and support each other during times of need, and this definitely qualifies.

Well it wasn't really in your thread per se, but more-so this one, with one or two posts I had saw earlier like this one.

Gawd, I hate being a tattle tale, but since you asked... It's not that serious though, but yeah.

Yeah, I'm a little shocked and confused too as to why a bunch of K. Rool fans would come on over just to pour salt in the wounds. K. Rool was my second-most wanted character for Smash, but now I'm sorely tempted to make huge sweeping arguments as to why he'll never make it in Smash out of spite.

I'll still support the character, but my opinion of his fans has been knocked down a couple notches.

Dude, like I said it's not that bad/serious, so don't go that far. It was just like one, two, or three people at most, and let's not act like no Ridley fans have ever detracted K. Rool or something.

 

[Grimnir]

Look, if people want to believe Ridley still has a good chance to be playable, they will believe such. Deep down they know its not true, but they cannot be reasoned with because they are deliberately resisting reason! It's useless to argue with someone who knows they're wrong but just don't care.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Hey guys, could you do me a favor and attempt to extrapolate Ridley's size based on these shadows cast by the platforms in these pics?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I will rest my case. I wish Ridley were playable, but I am at peace with his fate.

 

[majora_787]

He seems big, but not THAT big. I mean he doesn't take up a particularly spectacular area of the stage. But for comparison's sake, do we have a good one with Bowser that shows the center of the stage?

EDIT: It's really difficult to tell, what with being unable to see 99% of Ridley at all other than his shadow, which I imagine would be pretty deceptive considering he is in flight. But I think it's safe to say he would be a little bigger than Bowser or Dedede at the very least. Which IMO is a little bit small for a Ridley who is supposed to be a boss, but whatever.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Look, if people want to believe Ridley still has a good chance to be playable, they will believe such. Deep down they know its not true, but they cannot be reasoned with because they are deliberately resisting reason! It's useless to argue with someone who knows they're wrong but just don't care.

Its not that we don't care (well we do) it's that we would have NOTHING to talk about!

I mean, let's just say that we're totally wrong and you're right, har har har. So what should we do with the thread devoted to the character meant to be playable!? Talk about boss strategies? Rail on Sakurai for not including Ridley on the roster? Parrot on about Ridley's bigness?

I support friggin Shantae, but I know deep down that she doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. But its fun to talk about how a character would play in Smash anyways.

And who are you to tell me to stop thinking up potential ways Ridley could play on Ridley's thread, in spite of all evidence pointing to a boss?

 

[AEMehr]

I see people have mentioned the possibility of Clone Ridley being the boss while another version being playable.

In that case, all I feel like I need to share is this:
Zero Suit Samus is from Zero Mission, not Other M.
Zero Suit Samus from Zero Mission is a completely separate playable character from Samus from Other M.
If Ridley from Other M appears to be a Boss character, who's to say Ridley from Super Metroid (You know, the iconic Ridley design) has lost all chances to be playable?

I mean my expectations of the possibility have certainly been lowered, but this new information brings more to light than meets the eye.

This is how I am taking it. You have every right to think otherwise, but you don't need to be a stick in the mud about it.

 

[majora_787]

I kind of worked it out.

This is a rough approximation of where the shadow is, with an estimation of Bowser on the left. A little got cropped off on the right side, and Bowser is obviously going to be smaller due to perspective. But not much.

The blobs are kind of too close for a boss at all. Like, maybe it's just me, but I am pretty sure if Ridley was a boss, there would be absolutely no mistaking it when comparing his size to other characters. And I mean if anything, his shadow would probably be larger because of his wings. So I have to wonder.

 

[Welshy91]

Posterior inflammation is is approaching critical mass. There's no sense in arguing, we'll just have to wait and see. Now go to bed and hopefully we'll all be a little less butt-flustered tomorrow.

 

[Starphoenix]

The moment of truth for Ridley will be at E3 this year. I'd save all the back and forth and just wait until then.

 

[BKupa666]

I'm enjoying reading this analysis of the shadow and all, but I'm steeling myself from being convinced in favor of Ridley being anything but a boss at this point. Obviously, I'd be thrilled if that weren't the case, but as others have said, all signs are pointing to it as of now.

A question for all of the people discussing its movement...I can see how it resembles the idle animation and turning animations of a normal character, but if that were the case, why is he seemingly hovering above the stage? I'm guessing the answer will be camera-related, but I'm curious anyhow.

Also, is it just me, or does that shadow look as though he's carrying the Metroid capsule in his talons?

 

[Xigger]

• Sakurai trolling fans with Ridley confirmed
• Ridley giant shadow confirmed (It's over half of the entire stage! As big as Brawl's two Ridleys!)
• Same character existing twice confirmed
• Multiple Ridley fan theory confirmed
• Character graveyard for Ridley not confirmed

Is there anything else going on, or is that about it?

 

[majora_787]

I feel like it could be anything like some kind of weird component of an air-based moveset. Pikachu is a pretty short character, so it's possible Ridley would float right over Pikachu's head when using this sort of aerial grab or whatever. I don't know. But I wonder if after making Little Mac, Sakurai didn't get interested in making an opposite alternative of a strong air character and a weak land character.

And of course I'm not trying to shove people into believing Ridley is definitely happening, but we should at least acknowledge the lingering possibility that Ridley could maybe happen.

 

[Grimnir]

Its not that we don't care (well we do) it's that we would have NOTHING to talk about!

I mean, let's just say that we're totally wrong and you're right, har har har. So what should we do with the thread devoted to the character meant to be playable!? Talk about boss strategies? Rail on Sakurai for not including Ridley on the roster? Parrot on about Ridley's bigness?

I support friggin Shantae, but I know deep down that she doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. But its fun to talk about how a character would play in Smash anyways.

And who are you to tell me to stop thinking up potential ways Ridley could play on Ridley's thread, in spite of all evidence pointing to a boss?

Who am I to tell you...what? The whole point of my post was that people SHOULDN'T be telling you anything because you don't care.

Let's be honest here. I wish this was as harmless as people simply trying to keep the conversation about Ridley alive just for the sake of it, but we both know that's not true. People are just continuing to set themselves up for MORE disappointment. In the end, this is their choice, but I feel as if they deserve some kind of warning. On the other hand, maybe they don't.

There are tons of places to talk about Ridley that aren't related to his chances in Smash if you actually care about that. I hear the Metroid Database boards are nice.

 

[Erimir]

Well, I'm tired of thinking about this.

All I can say is this: Sakurai is either trolling, or he made a ****ty decision. Killing hype by disconfirming a highly wanted character, but leaving enough ambiguity to keep their hopes up. I would have preferred he say nothing, or reveal him as a stage hazard.

And the other thing I can say is: We've still got a lot to see before this game comes out. The next couple months of PotD and then E3 will be interesting, to say the least.

And finally, if there's not a new character for Metroid or some kind of consolation prize for getting no Ridley, I'm going to be annoyed. Give us an amazing stage, or some cool items or something (Zelda's not the only game with cool items!).

 

[Empyrean]

The moment of truth for Ridley will be at E3 this year. I'd save all the back and forth and just wait until then.

inb4 tomorrow's potd ruins every last hope.

 

[praline]

I still don't think he's deconfirmed.

 

[Keeshu]

I'm enjoying reading this analysis of the shadow and all, but I'm steeling myself from being convinced in favor of Ridley being anything but a boss at this point. Obviously, I'd be thrilled if that weren't the case, but as others have said, all signs are pointing to it as of now.

A question for all of the people discussing its movement...I can see how it resembles the idle animation and turning animations of a normal character, but if that were the case, why is he seemingly hovering above the stage? I'm guessing the answer will be camera-related, but I'm curious anyhow.

Also, is it just me, or does that shadow look as though he's carrying the Metroid capsule in his talons?

You make it sound like Peach doesn't know how to hover above the stage.

That's not a metroid capsule, He's holding Pikachu. That explains why his leg looked weird to me. Someone pointed it out earlier, but I thought it was some strange in-between frame where Pikachu was jumping. I feel so embarassed for not paying attention to that more.


Kinda seems like he has some sort of glide, and when he gets someone, he freezes in place in air, then glides again ones he's done with the mid-air grab.

 

[Alex Night]

I'm sorry, but I'm being a realist here. Ridley has as much chance of being playable as the Yellow Devil. It's sad, I know. Ridley has every business to be in Smash Bros, but Ridley has been hinted to not be playable from the release of the Pyrosphere in the PoTD to this Nintendo Direct. If you want to wait til E3 for a solid confirmation, then go ahead but have your expectations low.

 

[BKupa666]

You make it sound like Peach doesn't know how to hover above the stage.

That's not a metroid capsule, He's holding Pikachu. That explains why his leg looked weird to me. Someone pointed it out earlier, but I thought it was some strange in-between frame where Pikachu was jumping. I feel so embarassed for not paying attention to that more.

Kinda seems like he has some sort of glide, and when he gets someone, he freezes in place in air, then glides again ones he's done with the mid-air grab.

Thanks for the clarification.

Again, character assassination. Why the bloody hell is Ridley picking up characters and just leisurely carrying them along as if he's from Dragon Tales or something?? He should be grinding them into oblivion, not cruising off to Dragon Land with them.

 

[AEMehr]

The moment of truth for Ridley will be at E3 this year. I'd save all the back and forth and just wait until then.

Indeed. If Sakurai refrains from mentioning Ridley until then, it seems that Ridley will have to be playable in some form.

This would also help Ridley if Sakurai ever refers to him as "Clone Ridley from Metroid: Other M".

 

[majora_787]

Thanks for the clarification.

Again, character assassination. Why the bloody hell is Ridley picking up characters and just leisurely carrying them along as if he's from Dragon Tales or something?? He should be grinding them into oblivion.

Hell, Smash Bros. Ridley INVENTED swooping in, grabbing characters in his hands (not his feet, which kind of seems to be what's happening), and grinding them angrily against the wall. He is all about swooping. Even Master Hand and Tabuu don't do the "leisurely reach over, carefully pick up people, and slowly inch them over back off camera" thing.

 

[Keeshu]

Well, after watching Pikachu sway back and forth for a bit (kinda looks like hanging from a noose, but sped up), maybe they were trying to go for some sort of cheesy horror moment. Pikachu's limbs are hard to see, so you don't notice them flailing around like crazy at first either. Combine that with the grabs possibly being incomplete, and it makes sense for this to happen.

If he was really a boss, you think he'd actually do something instead of making the player unable to do something for a while. Unless it's one of those boss moves where it creates panic because you have to mash the buttons as fast as you can before you get KO'd or massively damaged.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Who am I to tell you...what? The whole point of my post was that people SHOULDN'T be telling you anything because you don't care.

Let's be honest here. I wish this was as harmless as people simply trying to keep the conversation about Ridley alive just for the sake of it, but we both know that's not true. People are just continuing to set themselves up for MORE disappointment. In the end, this is their choice, but I feel as if they deserve some kind of warning. On the other hand, maybe they don't.

There are tons of places to talk about Ridley that aren't related to his chances in Smash if you actually care about that. I hear the Metroid Database boards are nice.

"We don't care"? So caring about a game we enjoy and a character we like is immediately jumping ship and telling other supporters that they're delusional for thinking he could be so much more?

I came to this board to talk about Smash Ridley and how his movie and moveset would pan out, and even in the worst-case scenario where Sakurai specifically addresses Ridley fans to say that he'll never be playable, I'll still post Smash-related ideas about Ridley.

It may seem that grasping straws and analyzing split-second footage of someone's shadow is not caring about whether someone is playable or not, but that's a hell of a lot more effort than just saying "Ridley's shadow was shown in the Boss section, I'm done. No way he's in."