Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Xhampi]

So anyone have an idea about how Little Birdie and the Mystery creature could be represented in Smash 4, after all its not beacause the majority of us don't want them playable that they can't possibly appear somehow with another role.
Little Birdie as an assist trophy who can summon and control several Metroid ennemies until defeated maybe ?
Mystery Creature as the stage hazard of the Pyrosphere anyone, after all it's still Ridley isn't it ?

 

[Xiivi]

I'm not counting Ridley out at this point.

There's no game that makes you hate your friends as much as Mario Party. That's why it's so fun!

Monopoly ruins friendships 5ever~

 

[Diddy Kong]

I AM NOT A TOO BIGOT!

Damn it BKoopz that video is so ****ing awesome

 

[Oasis_S]

Being big is just part of being a boss in general. Instantly makes something scarier and more imposing. Obviously if he's playable that's not important anymore because he's on equal grounds with everyone else.

Considering Ridley's one of the smaller bosses in his own series, It's hard to say it's really important as a part of his character specifically either.

 

[Starcutter]

Monopoly ruins friendships 5ever~

Dat meens it more then 4ever.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Monopoly and Mario Party are the favorite games of one of my best friends. He's also a notorious cheater. Fun times I had...

It all became worse when we really got into Mario Strikes Charged Football for Wii. He and those damn Boo tactics... THOSE ****ING BOOS! Luckily I managed to be equally annoying with Diddy Dat jump **** and special, too good.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

lt's nice having you to taIk to toobiggots. l never had the patience.

I just feel the need to stand up for Ridley at any moment's notice. Even if he isn't a character I won't regret a single of my posts defending him.

 

[Phaazoid]

I'm not counting Ridley out at this point.



Monopoly ruins friendships 5ever~

But if you really, really decide that you need a new group of friends, just play settlers of catan with your old group of friends.

 

[IsmaR]

You really are a true WarioRidleyfan.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You really are a true WarioRidleyfan.

****, my cover's been blown!

In all honesty though, what I wouldn't do for a name change.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That video that somebody posted explained it perfectly.

In most of the main Mario games, when Bowser isn't playable, he is monstrous and towers over Mario. However, when he IS playable, Bowser is sized to fit in with the rest of the case.

There really is no evidence to say that Sakurai would agree with that, and there isn't anything to say that he wouldn't. But, the one thing he HAS shown is the lack of consistency in sizes as it is. Olimar taller than Kirby? Not to mention all of the Kirby characters should be among the smallest in Smash IIRC.

 

[DarkKry4]

i remember when people scolded me for giving him 9 percent chance in the rate their chances thread. I think its safe to say that you guys expected too much. Sure, Charizard was a pokeball and Dedede was a cameo before but that doesn't make him likely at all! Completely different scenarios considering neither had much development. You guys can want Ridley and support him and all but lets start using common sense and stop deluding ourselves.

and i posted this in that thread as well.

"imo i think the bosses in brawl seem like they had a quite a bit of development (to have moves and movement and such) and could have easily been made playable in brawl if the team wanted them to. but they weren't. We'll have to see the roster in the next game if any of the Brawl bosses are playable. And if they aren't then i think this theory rings true (about the Brawl Bosses). I do think previous pokeballs have been given new hope thanks to Charizard but i don't see the same for story bosses, Master Hand, or Sandbag."

 

[IsmaR]

I'd agree to it only if you stopped deluding yourself, as well. Though I do agree that thread is incredibly hopeful (for lack of nicer way of putting it) and generous with their percentages. I don't think any character has more than a 1/2 chance, much less 90%.

That all said common sense is subjective, just as common sense would dictate numerous people wanting a character to be playable would likely help their chances with the developers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

****, my cover's been blown!

In all honesty though, what I wouldn't do for a name change.

I suggest Ridleyknight1.

 

[CalumG]

i remember when people scolded me for giving him 9 percent chance in the rate their chances thread. I think its safe to say that you guys expected too much. Sure, Charizard was a pokeball and Dedede was a cameo before but that doesn't make him likely at all! Completely different scenarios considering neither had much development. You guys can want Ridley and support him and all but lets start using common sense and stop deluding ourselves.

and i posted this in that thread as well.

"imo i think the bosses in brawl seem like they had a quite a bit of development (to have moves and movement and such) and could have easily been made playable in brawl if the team wanted them to. but they weren't. We'll have to see the roster in the next game if any of the Brawl bosses are playable. And if they aren't then i think this theory rings true (about the Brawl Bosses). I do think previous pokeballs have been given new hope thanks to Charizard but i don't see the same for story bosses, Master Hand, or Sandbag."

It'd be easier to take this seriously if you weren't the same person who suggested there's no way of Toad getting in on account of his neutral-B status.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Here we go again...

 

[DarkKry4]

I'd agree to it only if you stopped deluding yourself, as well. Though I do agree that thread is incredibly hopeful (for lack of nicer way of putting it) and generous with their percentages. I don't think any character has more than a 1/2 chance, much less 90%.

That all said common sense is subjective, just as common sense would dictate numerous people wanting a character to be playable would likely help their chances with the developers.

so true. Its just weird how i was labeled a troll for giving a realistic percentage. Most newcomers should be in the 9-25% range imo. Thats why you don't see me supporting any new character. Alot of them do not have a chance. There is a big chance that we won't get alot of newcomers (cause we already have alot of veterans as well) which in turn, lowers alot of character's chances

I mean, i can understand hes popular and people want him in and really hate the "too big" rap that hes gotten but i feel like people should think in the eyes of the game's producers and not themselves. Who do you think they would put in? and what's their criteria? All we can do is assume.

 

[ChronoBound]

What will the backlash actually do in the end? Ridley also wasn't in Brawl. Neither was Mewtwo. An Brawl sold better than Melee.
.

It was easy for Brawl to outsell Melee considering one console had only a 21-22 million install bass, while the Wii has sold over 100 million. Not to mention there was far more hype for Brawl than Melee.

As it stands, I think Smash 4 Wii U is most likely going to sell worse than Brawl, and probably worse than Melee.

 

[DarkKry4]

It'd be easier to take this seriously if you weren't the same person who suggested there's no way of Toad getting in on account of his neutral-B status.

do i know you?

 

[Diddy Kong]

It was easy for Brawl to outsell Melee considering one console had only a 21-22 million install bass, while the Wii has sold over 100 million. Not to mention there was far more hype for Brawl than Melee.

As it stands, I think Smash 4 Wii U is most likely going to sell worse than Brawl, and probably worse than Melee.

But Melee was a release title, and damn, was it a huge improvement over 64. That cannot be denied. Brawl's sales might've had a lot to do with it's (over)hype though yeah. But still. The Wii might've been a better success overall than the GameCube, but fact remains that Brawl was a bigger financial success than Melee.

Ultimately, one character means nothing. Yeah, Sonic created his own sort of hype, and even Snake did it. Then again, that's all cause of the 3rd party and unexpected status. The Ridley fanbase isn't as big as Sonic's for example. Heck, it isn't even as big as Diddy's fanbase in total, cause Diddy had a lot less 'loyal' fans, he was practically seen as a shoo-in, but still massively supported and people where pretty damn happy with his inclusion.

Smash 4 Wii U / 3DS might sell better than Melee / Brawl (Brawl, unlikely perhaps but still) or it might sell worse. I think it'll be a more than successful game though, and people are gonna enjoy it no matter what characters are gonna be in. Unless of coarse they make stupid moves like cutting extremely iconic and popular characters as Wario, MetaKnight, Diddy, Dedede, Peach, Zelda (not Sheik), Marth, Captain Falcon, Ness, Lucario, Mewtwo. Ridley, in the end, doesn't compare to them.

This game will be a success, and yes, there are people who are gonna enjoy the **** out of Wii Fit Trainer, and be HAPPY that she was included. No Ridley is not the end of the world, and in fact, makes his inclusion NEXT TIME all the more likely. Cause seriously, when they add Mewtwo, Dixie, Palutena, King K.Rool, Isaac, Little Mac, a Mario character and Roy / Chrom, who remains? My scenario is: another Mario character, 'new' Fire Emblem character, 'new' Pokémon character, another retro that didn't make it (Mach Rider, Takamaru), Impa most likely if she gets another role, certain cut characters from Brawl to SSB4, and one who might top them all: Ridley.

It's gonna be a hectic time for Ridley fans for sure, but brace yourself for dissapointments please. I myself already have Diddy, so I can tell you that it does feel good to have your absolute favorite character ever make it into your favorite (?) game. So yeah, if Ridley does the same, I hope all the best for you. I know that you, Chrono, at least have been waiting for a long time for this. But here's hoping you'll at least get Roy...

 

[Anomilus]

I'm not counting Ridley out at this point.

...

...

You should have 5 titles, the fifth title saying "Five Titles".

 

[Arteen]

Some of you seriously can't have a conversation without childish names like "toobigots"?

Bowser's size is also heavily manipulated in the console 3D Mario games, mostly to show his stature and his might, albeit not to the same extent as Ridley's is. Really there's not much to discuss about it, because we don't know Sakurai's stance on things, though he does seem to not really care much about canon sizes, with his comments about Olimar and Kirby and all. Still, he could always view Ridley as a special case or whatever.

Relative proportions are what matter, and Sakurai does respect the in-franchise size differences between characters.

In the Kirby games, Kirby is small and Dedede is large, relative to each other. Smash preserves this size difference. It doesn't matter if Kirby's technically an inch tall since he's never been in the same game as any of the other Smash characters. Kirby's not going to look weird next to Mario since we've never seen them in the same game before. What's important is that Smash preserves Dedede's size relative to Kirby.

Bowser is certainly huge in a few games, but there are many instances where he's roughly as big compared to Mario as he is in Smash. And not just when he's driving race karts. Smash preserves Bowser's size relative to Mario.

Ridley, on the other hand, is always huge compared to Samus. The latest game, Other M, even made a pretty big deal about how big Ridley is and how important that trait is to the character. Samus is already relatively tall in Smash, so Ridley would need to be twice as big as everyone else at least. Smash could not preserve Ridley's size relative to Samus.

Could Ridley be shrunk? Sure. But if Sakurai thinks size is an important aspect of Ridley's character (which is a totally reasonable opinion), then Ridley's just not going to work as a fighter.

Really though, some of the talk is starting to get ridiculous. If Ridley is not a fighter this time around, then that's just the luck of the draw. Ridley on the roster is not some manifest destiny. It's not some huge slight to Metroid fans, it's not indicative of some personal failing on Sakurai's part, and there is no injustice being done here. Sakurai's just got a different opinion on how to represent a character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Too bigots have been mentoined? Then I'll have to post this. (BKupa I'll be your loyal servant forever baby <3 )

To be honest, there's more with Ridley's overall design than 'size' or being 'too big'. It's more his overall atributes. Yes, he's a little large, okay, so what do we do with him? Slow and heavy looks kind of weird on him, being so thin and all (unless Other M Ridley). And being fast and powerful is also not all too desired for balance purposes. There are a few things like that that make adding Ridley as a playable fighter a very difficult job. 'That'd be pretty impossible' being one of those statements, but yeah, throw Villager and Toad towards me for that one, I don't care...

All I'm saying is, don't bash the man too hard for not being too willing to screw up precious development time in making Ridley work. It's a great risk. And if they keep 'trying' by making him a sort of boss with different attack patterns everytime, that's also almost a moveset. All they really need is experience. Guess now they have the experience to make the Animal Crossing Villager and the Wii Fit Trainer a fighter. Cool, but they had some things to work with... Next step is decloning Ganondorf properly perhaps?

You might be underestimating how much work it is to create a fighter out of Ridley. And no, being 'too big' has little to do with it. Even though it's another frustrating issue all togheter.

 

[Anomilus]

Some of you seriously can't have a conversation without childish names like "toobigots"?


Relative proportions are what matter, and Sakurai does respect the in-franchise size differences between characters.

In the Kirby games, Kirby is small and Dedede is large, relative to each other. Smash preserves this size difference. It doesn't matter if Kirby's technically an inch tall since he's never been in the same game as any of the other Smash characters. Kirby's not going to look weird next to Mario since we've never seen them in the same game before. What's important is that Smash preserves Dedede's size relative to Kirby.

Bowser is certainly huge in a few games, but there are many instances where he's roughly as big compared to Mario as he is in Smash. And not just when he's driving race karts. Smash preserves Bowser's size relative to Mario.

Ridley, on the other hand, is always huge compared to Samus. The latest game, Other M, even made a pretty big deal about how big Ridley is and how important that trait is to the character. Samus is already relatively tall in Smash, so Ridley would need to be twice as big as everyone else at least. Smash could not preserve Ridley's size relative to Samus.

Could Ridley be shrunk? Sure. But if Sakurai thinks size is an important aspect of Ridley's character (which is a totally reasonable opinion), then Ridley's just not going to work as a fighter.

Really though, some of the talk is starting to get ridiculous. If Ridley is not a fighter this time around, then that's just the luck of the draw. Ridley on the roster is not some manifest destiny. It's not some huge slight to Metroid fans, it's not indicative of some personal failing on Sakurai's part, and there is no injustice being done here. Sakurai's just got a different opinion on how to represent a character.

Familiarity is what is important. Relativity comes second.

Now before I even beginning, where is your tension even coming from?? "Really though, some of the talk is starting to get ridiculous." You quoted Wariofan1 who was just stating his view. Why you gotta bring the talk past that level? You can't just discuss and not display objection to a person's view? ~_~

Actually, I think I know what you're actually directing your frustration toward. However I still think the objection isn't really needed. People are passionate here. Not everything ought to be taken so seriously.

...

Yes, Ridley ought to be larger than Samus. I personally think a way to make Ridley fit, work, and retain as much of his size as possible is necessary. I've touted the idea of a quadrupedal Ridley who can fight in such a stance while on the ground. It allows Ridley to be large without seeming too out of place on the stage. It also counts as a reference to Omega Ridley and perhaps Meta-Ridley of Prime 1. Not everyone agrees on the idea; Most seem to be drawn to bipedal Ridley and having a hunched over stance. Which would certainly be more familiar but would likely require a more drastic size reduction. But that's fine if that's what their preferences are.

But let's say quadrupedal Ridley is out. Bipedal or nothing at all. Still means Ridley needs to be bigger than Samus. However, there's the idea that Ridley MUST be huge. He MUST be at least 2.5x Samus's size or it's unfaithful and/or it looks weird. That's the relativity issue taking prominence over the familiarity issue. Which I have to disagree with.


Relativity being the most important thing means Kirby can't just be smaller than Dedede. Pikachu can't just be a bit smaller than Charizard. Ganondorf can't just be a little taller than Link/Zelda/Shiek/Toon Link. Fox can't be a bit smaller than the Arwings he stands on. Fox's Landmaster should not be half the size of the Great Fox. And whatever other examples may exist (notice that I didn't reference Bowser).

On the other hand, familiarity is the primary key here. That's when it becomes okay for characters to not be proportionally accurate to each other. And that's all that most Ridley fans really want; Give Ridley the same treatment as other characters. He should not be as tall as Samus as that would be unfamiliar. He definitely should be larger. But this idea that he's only allowed to maintain the same size equivalency as in the series he originates from is just not an argument that needs to be accepted as some sort of reality. It's a possibility, yes. But not some absolute law.

Henceforth it's as Wariofan1 says: We don't know Sakurai's stance on this. Maybe he does believe in relativity over familiarity. But the evidence says otherwise. This is not a "ridiculous" view. If you find somebody's stance ridiculous, just address with without posting objections directed toward their stance. Doing so is how conflict is bred.

Oh yeah, and don't take the "toobigot" talk too seriously.

 

[Groose]

Most newcomers should be in the 9-25% range imo.

Aww, but that's the entire point of Rate Their Chances! We give characters ratings in the high 60%-low 70% range.... then see how horribly wrong they were when they're deconfirmed.

 

[Louie G.]

For the record, I would use Ridley's Super Metroid design. I know people have been saying this already, but Ridley is NOT THAT MUCH BIGGER THAN SAMUS IN THIS PICTURE. He's only a little bit bigger than Bowser and Dedede if you wanted to put him in Smash and stay true to his big size. Ridley is only about 1.5x bigger than Samus, so this is no problem. Just make him the biggest character in the game, no biggie.

 

[Xhampi]

i remember when people scolded me for giving him 9 percent chance in the rate their chances thread. I think its safe to say that you guys expected too much.

I think that people are way too serious in that thread, like if it was going to influence the game somehow, you have your opinion and people should have indeed respected it,you are free to want a character or not, personally the only thing I found interesting is seeing how much a character is wanted in here.

Sure, Charizard was a pokeball and Dedede was a cameo before but that doesn't make him likely at all! Completely different scenarios considering neither had much development. You guys can want Ridley and support him and all but lets start using common sense and stop deluding ourselves.

I think you could consider Dedede an execption since Sakurai actually was planning to have him playable in SSB64 but then settle for a background cameo if I remember well.

I don't really see the difference between the jump of Charizard to non-playable character to playable and what could happen to Ridley, would you mind to explain me a little more about your point of view about this point please ?

Finally just like you, we are free to want and support a character that we consider as a possible newcommer for various reason without being called dellusional or people not having common sense because your opinion isn't the same.

and i posted this in that thread as well.

"imo i think the bosses in brawl seem like they had a quite a bit of development (to have moves and movement and such) and could have easily been made playable in brawl if the team wanted them to. but they weren't. We'll have to see the roster in the next game if any of the Brawl bosses are playable. And if they aren't then i think this theory rings true (about the Brawl Bosses). I do think previous pokeballs have been given new hope thanks to Charizard but i don't see the same for story bosses, Master Hand, or Sandbag."

Well looking at the bosses in Brawl it's not like there is a lot of possible newcommers you know, the only ones who have the slighest chance to make that jump are Porky and Ridley.
Still I would also like to remember you that there is one boss who became playable not that it means much considering that he is a final smash and not a full fledge character : Giga Bowser.

Next no it wouldn't have been easy to make Ridley a playable character, it would have taken time, time they didn't have if you remember, especially for a character less important that the likes of Dedede, Pokemon Trainer, Olimar and other Diddy Kong. Today Ridley have little competion when it come to important characters from already represented series, thus I agree that his chances would be hurt if he his not playable this time.

My answers are in color, sorry I'm not great for a debate, especially at 4 :00 AM and the fact that I suck at talking English but I wanted to answer you =).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anti-Too Bigotry going on, I'll move along. Have seen this happening way too much...

 

[Xhampi]

Anti-Too Bigotry going on, I'll move along. Have seen this happening way too much...

I think both sides have enough of these arguments and would like a definitive answer from Sakurai.

 

[Anomilus]

I think both sides have enough of these arguments and would like a definitive answer from Sakurai.

Pretty much. Until then it's the same ol' speculations.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley might very well be a known obstacle for Sakurai. Something extremely time consuming. Considering he's trying his best to make sure most characters come back, this doesn't seem to imply he has all the time he wants to take. I'm expecting a lot of time constraints trouble for this game to, much like Melee and Brawl had.

 

[APC99]

I am getting REAL sick of these stupid arguments.


"Ridley is too big"
"Geno is too old"
"Meowth is too 5 generations ago"
"Pac-Man is too generic"
"Toon Link is too toony"
"Nintendog is too realistic"
"King K. Rool is too irrelevant"
"Little Mac is too punch-happy"
"Toad is too involved in Smash already as part of Peach's moveset"


NOBODY is too anything.

 

[Anomilus]

I am getting REAL sick of these stupid arguments.


"Ridley is too big"
"Geno is too old"
"Meowth is too 5 generations ago"
"Pac-Man is too generic"
"Toon Link is too toony"
"Nintendog is too realistic"
"King K. Rool is too irrelevant"
"Little Mac is too punch-happy"
"Toad is too involved in Smash already as part of Peach's moveset"


NOBODY is too anything.

Kirby is too anything.

 

[DarkKry4]

Aww, but that's the entire point of Rate Their Chances! We give characters ratings in the high 60%-low 70% range.... then see how horribly wrong they were when they're deconfirmed.

lol true

 

[IsmaR]

Too Bigotry

 

[FalKoopa]

I am getting REAL sick of these stupid arguments.


"Ridley is too big"
"Geno is too old"
"Meowth is too 5 generations ago"
"Pac-Man is too generic"
"Toon Link is too toony"
"Nintendog is too realistic"
"King K. Rool is too irrelevant"
"Little Mac is too punch-happy"
"Toad is too involved in Smash already as part of Peach's moveset"


NOBODY is too anything.

This post is too long: didn't read.

 

[Johnknight1]

Upon even hearing about it from a friend, I thought this meant only good things for Ridley's inclusion.

Then I came to Smashboards.

Because people on Smash Boards want unoriginal crap like Poo, the Duck Hunt Dog, Toad, Birdo, and Deoxys playable instead of something new from Nintendo's highest quality IP.

but fact remains that Brawl was a bigger financial success than Melee.

Nope. Comparing the 2001-2004 US Dollar (when Brawl was released) to the 2008 US Dollar (as well as most currencies) isn't close. The former is worth over 10% more.

That means if you take away 10% of Brawl's sales, it's only about 3 million more.

Add in the price of a new studio location, steeper developmental costs, and the same price point for the game, and I doubt Brawl was a bigger financial success than Melee. That's not even taking into account Melee moved consoles much more than Brawl did, which is pretty much self-evident in the ratio of Melee to GameCube owners (about 30%) compared to Brawl to Wii owners (about 12%).

Hence why Sonic did not make Brawl any better.

And Link. And Ganondorf. And Zelda. And Captain Falcon.

And how Pit and ROB made Brawl worse, and Meta Knight peed all over the few good parts of that game.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Saturn is just the right size for Ridley. It must be his home planet. Life on a gas planet confirmed.

no, I didn't just post this because I love astronomy.

 

[Johnknight1]

i remember when people scolded me for giving him 9 percent chance in the rate their chances thread. I think its safe to say that you guys expected too much.

Yes, clearly, expecting one of the two most original Nintendo owned characters being playable is expecting too much after we got Mega Man, the king of unique and crazy moves with so many moves he could have 20 movesets, the Villager with his shovel and tree planting, balloon helmet, bowling ball, oh, and a freaking rocket gyro, and the Wii Fit Trainer using freaking stretches and half-a**ed exercises for obese old people as moves.

All characters from big unit selling, continuing franchises, which Metroid is. Or a heavyweight in a franchise with like 3-5 "true" heavyweights.

And clearly, expecting a unique vicious dragon is sooooo crazy.

Instead, we should expect more half-a**ed characters that go against current and historical trends like Toad, Waluigi, Birdo, and Deoxys. Yep. That's Sakurai's thought process. Let's add roster filler instead of unique and popular characters that could potentially change smash gameplay forever.

Oh, and for the record, I think its safe to say that you guy assume too much. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.

Plus, Sakurai's no longer involved with the Kirby series and as I think Johnknight or someone pointed out, it improved quality-wise, sales-wise or something like that once he left. Maybe Smash could follow suit like that in the future if he were no longer involved.

Not trying to be a Sakurai hater. Just speaking hypothetically...

To be honest, I think Sakurai's impact on Smash should be diminished compared to what we got in Brawl (which it may have been). In Smash 64 and Melee, the character design had a heavy influence from Miyamoto, and because of that, the character design was innovative (sans late clones), and quite often worked.

Sakurai can still be the "figurehead" of smash, but to say he should even be calling half of the shots is crazy considering the skill, talents, experience, and capabilities of the other directors who have and continue to work on Smash. Some of those directors are arguably better at making games than Sakurai as well, and that's not including anyone at Namco Bandai either!!!

The game is going to do fine whether or not Ridley is going to be involved. One character isn't going to suddenly deteriorate the quality.

Fight me.​

(Hindsight and Front sight: I'd rather have Mewtwo)​

 

[CalumG]

I am getting REAL sick of these stupid arguments.


"Ridley is too big"
"Geno is too old"
"Meowth is too 5 generations ago"
"Pac-Man is too generic"
"Toon Link is too toony"
"Nintendog is too realistic"
"King K. Rool is too irrelevant"
"Little Mac is too punch-happy"
"Toad is too involved in Smash already as part of Peach's moveset"


NOBODY is too anything.

I agree with the rest of this post but that one is... kind of a valid argument. Nintendog is a photo-realistic dog rather than a Nintendo character (Nintendo doesn't own it's image, like every other Nintendo character in the game), has real dog behaviours rather than any kind of moveset, and there's no parent, media organisation, animal rights or religious group on this Earth that would be okay with Ganondorf Warlock Punching a real-life dog out of the screen whilst it makes little puppy screams.