Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[MasterOfKnees]

I really feel like this is Ridley's last chance. Right now he's the biggest all-star that isn't a playable character, he would rep an under-repped franchise, and he is one of the most popular newcomer choices. If he isn't in this time, then there's a specific reason why Sakurai doesn't want him as a character. In Brawl it was understandable, not only did they have 18 new characters to make, but many of them were admittedly much more important to Nintendo than Ridley is. This time, there'll be less newcomers, which could give more time to make such a difficult character as Ridley. All the stars should be aligned in Ridley's favor this time around, so if he isn't in then it's because he's purposely been left out and Sakurai doesn't want to either make the effort, or thinks that he doesn't fit as a character. Of course he changed his mind about Villager, but we can't just hope for him to change his mind about all characters that have been rejected.

I'd still support and defend him during the course of the next SSB, but I'd also be realistic and know that his chances won't be high.

 

[Oasis_S]

I gotta be honest. I think it can go either way. The stage hazard idea was convincing, but from further thought, it really isn't as cut and dry as it seems.

What do you think Oasis?

Well at first I was very excited, until I realized how strange it was for him to be hinting so clearly at Ridley, then the stage hazard idea kicked in.

But reading it again, like I was saying before, it could ALSO just as well be read as Sakurai pointing out that, because this is the area you encounter Ridley in Other M, it's as though he could appear at any moment. Something like that is much more in line with what Sakurai typically does. A little blurb of the history associated with the update, y'know. Reading it like that, I think, solves all the confusion.

SAKURAI HAS HUMBLED ME GREATLY, I'm no where near saying I feel this puts Ridley closer to being confirmed, but I do remain a little hopeful.


Also you can't really put a time frame on Ridley's confirmation. We just have to look at each image of the Pyrosphere individually as Sakurai gives them to us, which should at most be bi-weekly. We'll surely get another character in less than a month, but for who it may be is anyone's guess really. The "at any moment" really shouldn't lead you to believe he's going to be confirmed soon. I am pretty confident we will see him before release if he is indeed playable. Maybe next E3?

By the way, if Ridley doesn't get in, I think I'll suddenly become a supporter of DLC, lol.

 

[IsmaR]

Another thing I don't think people are really considering is that Ridley tends to be either completely hidden/secret (as in he'll hit you out of nowhere) in the games, or he'll be shown/have build up leading to his final battle, almost always being towards the end regardless.

I feel like Sakurai somewhat knows and acknowledges this in the games, with Ganondorf and Mewtwo especially considering they're always encountered late in their games and have been made hidden/unlockable characters to reflect that. For that reason I think Ridley along with K. Rool, Mewtwo if it comes back, and Bowser Jr./Dark Samus if they get in would only be shown beforehand to build up tremendous hype, which I certainly don't doubt they wouldn't, but ultimately I think it would be the best kind of shock/surprise if their inclusion was kept secret to the end. Of course not all of us are patient and just want to dispel the too-bigotry/stop worrying about it now, but I'd love to have that reaction of unlocking Mewtwo and Ganondorf in Melee again, only multiplied hundredfold with it being Ridley.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ridley definitely could be an unlockable for sure, though personally I'd rather he gets revealed beforehand since I'm gonna spoil myself either way. Plus, if he gets revealed before relesae we'll get unique art and a trailer for him, which I doubt we'll get for unlockables since that'd spoil the whole point of them.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I really feel like this is Ridley's last chance. Right now he's the biggest all-star that isn't a playable character, he would rep an under-repped franchise, and he is one of the most popular newcomer choices. If he isn't in this time, then there's a specific reason why Sakurai doesn't want him as a character. In Brawl it was understandable, not only did they have 18 new characters to make, but many of them were admittedly much more important to Nintendo than Ridley is. This time, there'll be less newcomers, which could give more time to make such a difficult character as Ridley. All the stars should be aligned in Ridley's favor this time around, so if he isn't in then it's because he's purposely been left out and Sakurai doesn't want to either make the effort, or thinks that he doesn't fit as a character. Of course he changed his mind about Villager, but we can't just hope for him to change his mind about all characters that have been rejected.

I'd still support and defend him during the course of the next SSB, but I'd also be realistic and know that his chances won't be high.

Yeah, if there's no drastic changes in the future regarding Smash and more Ridley appearances in Metroid or whatnot, I can see SSB4 being a likely last chance for him at the moment too, but with how things can change in the future, ya never know. If Sakurai does actually have a specific reason for not wanting Ridley as a character though, I wonder if we'll hear it. If the reason is well, reasonable from a game designer's perspective I guess I could perhaps feel a little better about it at least.

But with the way things are currently going for Nintendo (not so hot as far as like the Wii U and such), I would like to think they couldn't afford something like someone such as Sakurai not wanting to make the effort into adding a character as popular and requested as Ridley to a Smash roster. Lately Nintendo in general has kinda come off as not trying hard enough or hardly trying anymore (to me at least), outside the few or couple gems like Donkey Kong. If Ridley's not in SSB4 because of the "amount of effort he would take", it would just further prove my thoughts about the current Nintendo. I love Nintendo, I grew up with them, but... they've kinda been dropping the ball nowadays.

Anyway, yeah. I would still do what you'd do in the future as far as Ridley; still support and maybe defend him here and there, but be realistic about his situation. That's what I'm hoping his supporters would still do at the very least rather than the support base just.. dying out altogether for the most part.

Being a somewhat negative nancy aside...

Ridley definitely could be an unlockable for sure, though personally I'd rather he gets revealed beforehand since I'm gonna spoil myself either way. Plus, if he gets revealed before relesae we'll get unique art and a trailer for him, which I doubt we'll get for unlockables since that'd spoil the whole point of them.

That's why I'd prefer he get revealed beforehand too if he's playable; having the honor of wearing a new sig and/or avi of a new render for Ridley while awaiting SSB4's release and all that, much as I love IsmaR's reasoning on how unlockables could/should still work like with Mewtwo and how sweet it would be for Ridley.

edit:

By the way, if Ridley doesn't get in, I think I'll suddenly become a supporter of DLC, lol.

From being a stage thing to a DLC character... You just gave me the thought of Ridley pulling an Injustice Martian Manhunter. Awesome.

 

[Arteen]

How many people, reading that comment just the way it is, feel it's hinting at Ridley as a stage hazard?

Was it something you had to read into, or just something you began to believe after visiting the forum?

Did you have to read into it to NOT believe it was hinting at a stage hazard?

I seemed like an obvious hint at being a stage hazard to me. It's still sounds like a stage hazard reference, but it could easily be another awkwardly-worded, ambiguous Sakurai statement like Ness's "until now" with Brawl.

Given the usual timeline for revealing stages on the site, we'll get another picture or two next week revealing more about the stage. It's too soon for another big character reveal, just three weeks from the last one, so there's a big chance we'll see Ridley-hazard then. If there's no Ridley sighting next week, he might still have a big chance on the roster.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I seemed like an obvious hint at being a stage hazard to me. It's still sounds like a stage hazard reference, but it could easily be another awkwardly-worded, ambiguous Sakurai statement like Ness's "until now" with Brawl.

Given the usual timeline for revealing stages on the site, we'll get another picture or two next week revealing more about the stage. It's too soon for another big character reveal, just three weeks from the last one, so there's a big chance we'll see Ridley-hazard then. If there's no Ridley sighting next week, he might still have a big chance on the roster.

Which is why I hope we won't be seeing anything of Ridley until September. And I'd much prefer if a character page goes along with him in September too.

 

[Lasifer]

When will the daily pic update? >_<

 

[Oasis_S]

When will the daily pic update? >_<

On Monday, 3AM CST. It's not daily, doesn't update on the weekend.

 

[ChronoBound]

Can't help but feel that after that comment, they'll show him one way or the other in the near future.

Yeah. That is how I feel too. I feel either this coming week, or the week after (first week of September), which should have our answer about Ridley's role in Smash 4. If he is a stage hazard, I am expecting a screenshot confirming him as such during this coming week, and at the latest during the first week of September. This is not something Sakurai is going to to want to leave people hanging about.

I think perhaps one frame of reference to find out when our next Pyrosphere screenshot could be should be to see what the time frame was from when the Pilotwings stage was unveiled to when the second screenshot of it was shown.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

There went a week and a day between the Pilotwings stage's reveal until the first plane picture.

There went a week and two days between the Reset Bomb stage's announcement and the picture of the second phase of the stage.

We should see something new of the Pyrosphere stage in the coming week. If the rumor that ZSS is going to be revealed on Tuesday is true, then we'll likely know if the Pyrosphere will have a hazard or not soon after. But it's from 4Chan so it's almost a guaranteed fake.

 

[Protom]

When will the daily pic update? >_<

Monday. No pics on weekends.

 

[Anomilus]

In Brawl it was understandable, not only did they have 18 new characters to make, but many of them were admittedly much more important to Nintendo than Ridley is. This time, there'll be less newcomers, which could give more time to make such a difficult character as Ridley. All the stars should be aligned in Ridley's favor this time around...

This has me thinking...

What if the key reason for Sakurai not considering a playable Ridley is that he doesn't see Ridley has having enough star power??

I mean obviously we'd think "That's ridiculous!" But I keep saying that it's likely Sakurai doesn't truly get Metroid. By this I mean his knowledge of the series only goes so far as to ensure a certain level of authenticity when trying to bring it to Smash. He knows Samus is the hero, he knows of Zero Suit Samus, he knows of various enemies she has faced such as Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain. He knows some places like Brinstar and Norfair and Frigate Orpheon. And he's done a little extra research here and there to develop trophies.

But we all know Metroid doesn't exactly grab the attention of people in Japan. Sure some individuals may still enjoy the series. But who's to say Sakurai is one of them? I doubt he is. On the other hand we know Sakurai likes the Star Fox series, so I wouldn't be surprised if he knows a little more than a passable amount of info.

Point is, I wouldn't be surprised if, to Sakurai, Ridley was on the same level of importance as Kraid: One of two strong enemies Samus has faced before. Ridley may have shown up a lot more since, but maybe it's because Kraid is so big that it's implausible to see him just anywhere. Ridley did kill Samus's parents, so he's especially hated by Samus. He also leads the Space Pirates.

Without being aware of the implications of Ridley's actions, his status, and his prevalence throughout the series, I can believe that a person might conclude that, compared to other villains like Bowser and Ganondorf and Dedede, Ridley's influence and importance to his related series is only moderate. And again I think about Star Fox; Wolf couldn't be compared to other Nintendo villains (him even being a villain is questionable). But Sakurai is likely more familiar with the series and thus better understands Wolf's role.

So with Wariofan1's words, who exactly was "more important" at the time? The sure bets are Meta Knight, Dedede, Olimar, ROB, Diddy Kong, Wario, Sonic, Snake, and Pit. These guys play a major or top role in their series. ROB in particular represents a past era.

It's the other's that I find more questionable.

Lucario - Popular pokemon mascot of the moment. Priority is relatively short lived
Pokemon Trainer - Represents the primary role players take and 3 very well known pokemon. Arguably very important
Lucas - Important, but to a single game (I believe)
Ike - Same as above
Wolf - Rival status, not a main villain, arguable
Zero Suit Samus - A different form of Samus. Important, but higher priority??
Toon Link - Sakurai is apparently adamant on having a young and adult Link, so priority may be his own preference

To I and others who understand Ridley's importance, it would seem that Ridley at least is on equal grounds with some of these. But to somebody less familiar with the series, maybe Ridley falls below these expectations. I've said before that a Nintendo character needs at least one of these qualities: The "All-Star" that's practically the face of the series, the "Co-star" in which most people immediately identify with the series, and the "Era guy" who draws attention to a specific Nintendo era. Thanks to the lack of familiarity, one could think Ridley fails all three of these prerequisites.


There seems to be two key goals that we as the Ridley fanbase may have failed to focus on simply because it didn't come to mind.

1 - We needed to further emphasize how important Ridley is to his series. We're fans. We know the reality. But just making Ridley very popular seems to mean he gets past "Trophy" or "Background appearance" status.

2 - We should have promoted Ridley post E3..... 2012!! Even sooner than that. Maybe some of you did. I certainly didn't notice. But I don't just mean lots of discussion and arguing ('cause the detractors join the ride). Could you imagine if we took to Twitter and stuff about Ridley as soon as Smash 4 was mentioned?

I dunno. Maybe #2 did happen and I myself just failed to jump on the train.


Also, could you imagine if this post had a character limit? Then I wouldn't allow my thoughts to balloon this post to this size and require a ...

TL;DR version - Sakurai may not truly acknowledge Ridley as a genuine all-star on the same levels as other villains like Bowser and Ganondorf due to simply not having enough knowledge of the series. It's arguable Ridley wasn't as important as most of Brawl's newcomers. Maybe if Ridley's fanbase better emphasized Ridley's importance, Sakurai would look at him differently.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Sakurai seems to have quite some knowledge about Other M actually. Not only did he put in a Metroid stage that's a very specific location from the games (that's actually a first,) but in the Japanese quote he referred to Samus' trauma. If Sakurai didn't get how important Ridley was back then, he should get it if he's played Other M where he's a major part of the story, and really a major part of Samus' character too.

Seeing all the Other M representation, and considering how Samus was Super Metroid based even in Brawl, I can imagine that not only has Sakurai played Other M, but it might be the first Metroid game he has actually gone in-depth with to get a better understanding of the franchise, something he most obviously hasn't had up 'till now.

Also, about Ridley being under the 7 ones you mentioned. It's obvious he's under Pokémon Trainer in importance, not only because the concept is so unique, not only because it's the actual character of the Pokémon games, but also Charizard. I don't think there's any denying that Ridley is a hard character to pull off, most likely Sakurai didn't see the idea in potentially having to cut other characters to work on Ridley, someone he very well might not have seen as very important.

I'm very certain that Sakurai only now is beginning to get Metroid. Obviously he has played Mother 3 (I mean, just look at New Pork City), so as you said, Sakurai might very well have considered Lucas more important. Same for Star Fox, and Wolf really was the last addition to Brawl except Sonic, so he was also included because he was an easy semi-clone. Ridley would have been a hard and time consuming character to pull off, so it was probably more logical to him to include other characters that'd still be well received.

This time there aren't many characters that are big and will get the community to go nuts. Mega Man was one of them, Villager too, now there's only K. Rool and Ridley left in that bracket (and Mewtwo, but he's all but confirmed at this point.) It'd be wise to put characters like K. Rool and Ridley in high priority now then. This time Ridley isn't under the boot of others, he really should be the one who puts other characters under his boot.

 

[Steelia]

With all the lava-rising levels, having the Metroid Prime stage come from the first boss of the game as opposed to the more iconic Tallon Overworld hub (makes you wonder if that's just how far he got into the game, if he played that far into it at all), as well as some inaccuracies on (the very few) Metroid trophies we have like Dark Samus... yeah, I don't think Sakurai gets the series, or has even bothered to really play it past the 2-D NES/SNES titles. If he so much as finished Super Metroid, he'd know of Ridley's significance there.

I can't tell if it's just out of ignorance on his part, or jumping on the Japanese Metroid bandwagon of not appreciating the series. My bets on the former, though.

Speaking from experience, I never really understood what made Ridley so important until I played the games myself. I heard the stories ("he's smart" "he's Samus's rival" "he's a primary antagonist"), but I always saw Ridley as "just another enemy" from the series like Kraid and such. His crazy lizard looks are greatly deceiving! There's much more to him than being just another boss...

 

[Anomilus]

The "Samus's Trauma" thing is not at all a difficult thing to find out, nor is getting the details down for the Geothermal Plant. Other M can literally be watched like a movie, and that particular scene is one of the most important ones in the game. Despite all of this, can you honestly say that scene heightens Ridley's importance to the series? Or does the scene just further build on Samus's character? I'm not saying the latter is the clear answer, 'cause it's not. I'm just saying the possibility does exist that one might not realize Ridley's true importance from that scene (it was done awkwardly after all...).

I agree that few stand in the way of Ridley now, but it really isn't about who's in his way. It's about whether or not he's even on that level in Sakurai's mind. His past treatment of Metroid makes me question him, and Other M overly lends itself to being "understood", so I'm not moved by Sakurai getting that game.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

This is the Ridley I would expect to find playable, it also happens to be my favourite rendition of theirs.

 

[Lasifer]

It's going to be Other M Ridley if he's in, I'd like Sakurai to be a smart man and put alternate costumes in so I can play as Meta Ridley though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The "Samus's Trauma" thing is not at all a difficult thing to find out, nor is getting the details down for the Geothermal Plant. Other M can literally be watched like a movie, and that particular scene is one of the most important ones in the game. Despite all of this, can you honestly say that scene heightens Ridley's importance to the series? Or does the scene just further build on Samus's character? I'm not saying the latter is the clear answer, 'cause it's not. I'm just saying the possibility does exist that one might not realize Ridley's true importance from that scene (it was done awkwardly after all...).

I agree that few stand in the way of Ridley now, but it really isn't about who's in his way. It's about whether or not he's even on that level in Sakurai's mind. His past treatment of Metroid makes me question him, and Other M overly lends itself to being "understood", so I'm not moved by Sakurai getting that game.

The Ridley scene doesn't heighten his importance, but his role throughout the game surely makes newcomers understand how important he is. He is mentioned time and time again throughout the game, and he's the only boss to actively affect Samus in any way, the rest are just faced and killed, even the Metroid Queen. It doesn't up his importance, but if Sakurai hasn't played through any of the other games, it'd at least help him understand how important he is. And yes, it was done super awkwardly, I simply hate the scene, but it really does emphasize how important Ridley is.

And sure, the details aren't hard to get right, but Metroid's representation thus far, even if it isn't much yet, is a whole lot more precise than the vague representation it has had in the past. I'm still a bit ticked that Samus' charge beam still isn't the right color, but that's about it.

 

[Anomilus]

The Ridley scene doesn't heighten his importance, but his role throughout the game surely makes newcomers understand how important he is. He is mentioned time and time again throughout the game, and he's the only boss to actively affect Samus in any way, the rest are just faced and killed, even the Metroid Queen. It doesn't up his importance, but if Sakurai hasn't played through any of the other games, it'd at least help him understand how important he is. And yes, it was done super awkwardly, I simply hate the scene, but it really does emphasize how important Ridley is.

And sure, the details aren't hard to get right, but Metroid's representation thus far, even if it isn't much yet, is a whole lot more precise than the vague representation it has had in the past. I'm still a bit ticked that Samus' charge beam still isn't the right color, but that's about it.

I can understand you seeing it that way. I'm not totally convinced myself. Again it's due to how Other M was made, but the way I see it is that Ridley's importance in the game is diminished by its mystery. Samus does mention Ridley, but until his great appearance, he's the mystery creature "Little Birdie" and "Mysterious Lizard". One can finally go "Oh, so this monster was those creatures all along", but again due to how awkward it's all handled, the importance of it all is hard to catch. Unless you already know Ridley's importance, that is.

I'm just trying to picture it from the perspective of somebody who doesn't follow Metroid. Without prior knowledge, Ridley could be considered just an extra-dangerous creature who turns out to have a connection to Samus's past in some way. That's interesting for sure.

Well, maybe all the tidbits of info over the years have finally caught up with Sakurai. Maybe...

This is the Ridley I would expect to find playable, it also happens to be my favourite rendition of theirs.

You know, people make the "perspective" argument against this pic. They they claim Ridley is actually huge.

...Interestingly though nobody ever considers the Metroid Larva container. Based on Super Metroid, Samus is at least a couple of feet taller than that capsule. Now play the perspective game again with Samus, Ridley, AND the capsule. Ridley is still bigger for sure, but not only is he not "huge", one could say he's even smaller than his Super Metroid counterpart. So aside from the fact that the Melee opening argument is more about how people wouldn't find a smaller Ridley "weird", the anti-Ridley argument of perspective is overblown.

 

[SmasherP82]

wats up u Ridley pweoplesssssss anyway wow this already got to 224 o:

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

I can understand you seeing it that way. I'm not totally convinced myself. Again it's due to how Other M was made, but the way I see it is that Ridley's importance in the game is diminished by its mystery. Samus does mention Ridley, but until his great appearance, he's the mystery creature "Little Birdie" and "Mysterious Lizard". One can finally go "Oh, so this monster was those creatures all along", but again due to how awkward it's all handled, the importance of it all is hard to catch. Unless you already know Ridley's importance, that is.

I'm just trying to picture it from the perspective of somebody who doesn't follow Metroid. Without prior knowledge, Ridley could be considered just an extra-dangerous creature who turns out to have a connection to Samus's past in some way. That's interesting for sure.

Well, maybe all the tidbits of info over the years have finally caught up with Sakurai. Maybe...





You know, people make the "perspective" argument against this pic. They they claim Ridley is actually huge.

...Interestingly though nobody ever considers the Metroid Larva container. Based on Super Metroid, Samus is at least a couple of feet taller than that capsule. Now play the perspective game again with Samus, Ridley, AND the capsule. Ridley is still bigger for sure, but not only is he not "huge", one could say he's even smaller than his Super Metroid counterpart. So aside from the fact that the Melee opening argument is more about how people wouldn't find a smaller Ridley "weird", the anti-Ridley argument of perspective is overblown.

That image was the smallest I ever remembered seeing him, that's why I chose it.
That being said I don't actually own a metroid game, only seen bits and bobs.

 

[Megazero64]

I think I know why Ridley's announcement is taking so long. Sakurai is probably in the process of making an announcement trailer for Ridley. IT'S GENIUS!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I can understand you seeing it that way. I'm not totally convinced myself. Again it's due to how Other M was made, but the way I see it is that Ridley's importance in the game is diminished by its mystery. Samus does mention Ridley, but until his great appearance, he's the mystery creature "Little Birdie" and "Mysterious Lizard". One can finally go "Oh, so this monster was those creatures all along", but again due to how awkward it's all handled, the importance of it all is hard to catch. Unless you already know Ridley's importance, that is.

I'm just trying to picture it from the perspective of somebody who doesn't follow Metroid. Without prior knowledge, Ridley could be considered just an extra-dangerous creature who turns out to have a connection to Samus's past in some way. That's interesting for sure.

Well, maybe all the tidbits of info over the years have finally caught up with Sakurai. Maybe...

That's true. However, as a game designer and the guy who picks out the roster I'd imagine that Sakurai will have had interest in knowing why Ridley is so popular, it'd only be logical of him to either have read it or even contacted Sakamoto about why Ridley is so popular if he doesn't grasp it himself.

I'm very certain that Sakurai knows Ridley's importance, heck, even Ridley's trophy in Brawl talks about him being Samus' rival and killing her parents iirc. Sakurai most definitely isn't oblivious to Ridley's importance, it's most likely technical issues of working him out as a character and him being under the boot of more important characters that has held him back thus far. Alas, we won't gain much discussing it, because we likely won't know.

 

[Arteen]

I can understand you seeing it that way. I'm not totally convinced myself. Again it's due to how Other M was made, but the way I see it is that Ridley's importance in the game is diminished by its mystery. Samus does mention Ridley, but until his great appearance, he's the mystery creature "Little Birdie" and "Mysterious Lizard". One can finally go "Oh, so this monster was those creatures all along", but again due to how awkward it's all handled, the importance of it all is hard to catch. Unless you already know Ridley's importance, that is.

I'm just trying to picture it from the perspective of somebody who doesn't follow Metroid. Without prior knowledge, Ridley could be considered just an extra-dangerous creature who turns out to have a connection to Samus's past in some way. That's interesting for sure.

Well, maybe all the tidbits of info over the years have finally caught up with Sakurai. Maybe...





You know, people make the "perspective" argument against this pic. They they claim Ridley is actually huge.

...Interestingly though nobody ever considers the Metroid Larva container. Based on Super Metroid, Samus is at least a couple of feet taller than that capsule. Now play the perspective game again with Samus, Ridley, AND the capsule. Ridley is still bigger for sure, but not only is he not "huge", one could say he's even smaller than his Super Metroid counterpart. So aside from the fact that the Melee opening argument is more about how people wouldn't find a smaller Ridley "weird", the anti-Ridley argument of perspective is overblown.

Out of curiosity, I tried to match up the Super Metroid Samus and The Baby with the Melee pick, and size Samus as appropriate.

Samus ends up roughly the same size as Ridley's head. So Ridley is still pretty big in the Melee intro. We also see him from a more head-on perspective, so we can't see just how big his face and tail actually are.

You're correct about your more general point, how it shows that a smaller Ridley doesn't look weird, to some people. Other people may disagree.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wouldn't expect Ridey to be revealed before Zero Suit Samus, so better hope that 4chan rumor is true for Ridley fans.

Anyway, don't worry too much Ridley fanbase. Just look at characters like Charizard. Pokéball in 64 and Melee, then suddenly playable in Brawl. Maybe not this time, then all the more likely next time. At least, that's how I view it with characters like Impa.

I also argue Ike IS more important to Fire Emblem, as he's one ofmthe very few Lords starring two titles. And he's the main hero of the Tellius saga, and thus basically the Lord of all major recent console Fire Emblem games.

Lucas beats Ridley to if we see Metroid and Mother as equal series. Lucas's game is the conclusion of the Mother series. It all ends with his actions. He's bound to Ness's story, as Lucas finishes what Ness didn't, which is finishing off Porky, or at least... Stops him.

Pokémon Trainer represents the Pokémon gameplay as a whole. Also, Charizard.

 

[Lasifer]

I wouldn't expect Ridey to be revealed before Zero Suit Samus, so better hope that 4chan rumor is true for Ridley fans.

Anyway, don't worry too much Ridley fanbase. Just look at characters like Charizard. Pokéball in 64 and Melee, then suddenly playable in Brawl. Maybe not this time, then all the more likely next time. At least, that's how I view it with characters like Impa.

I also argue Ike IS more important to Fire Emblem, as he's one ofmthe very few Lords starring two titles. And he's the main hero of the Tellius saga, and thus basically the Lord of all major recent console Fire Emblem games.

Lucas beats Ridley to if we see Metroid and Mother as equal series. Lucas's game is the conclusion of the Mother series. It all ends with his actions. He's bound to Ness's story, as Lucas finishes what Ness didn't, which is finishing off Porky, or at least... Stops him.

Pokémon Trainer represents the Pokémon gameplay as a whole. Also, Charizard.

4Chan rumor?

 

[Protom]

Yes. What is this 4 Chan rumor, kind sirs?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I wouldn't expect Ridey to be revealed before Zero Suit Samus, so better hope that 4chan rumor is true for Ridley fans.

I don't see how that'd help our cause. It doesn't matter what order characters are revealed, especially not when newcomers are concerned. I certainly didn't expect Luigi and Olimar to be the first reveals post-E3 either.

4Chan rumor?

Just a fake "leak" which proclaims that Zero Suit Samus will be revealed this Tuesday. It has some holes in it, like Lucario being revealed on a Saturday (obviously overlooked by the creator of the leak since he just copy-pasted the release date of X & Y) and the fact that it doesn't dare go beyond 2013. Add to it that it comes from 4Chan, and it's legitimacy dies.

 

[Lasifer]

I don't see how that'd help our cause. It doesn't matter what order characters are revealed, especially not when newcomers are concerned. I certainly didn't expect Luigi and Olimar to be the first reveals post-E3 either.



Just a fake "leak" which proclaims that Zero Suit Samus will be revealed this Tuesday. It has some holes in it, like Lucario being revealed on a Saturday (obviously overlooked by the creator of the leak since he just copy-pasted the release date of X & Y) and the fact that it doesn't dare go beyond 2013. Add to it that it comes from 4Chan, and it's legitimacy dies.

Huh, is there a link to it? I'm positive it's fake but I am interested in looking at it.

 

[Arcanir]

Huh, is there a link to it? I'm positive it's fake but I am interested in looking at it.

http://i.imgur.com/CWAswO3.png

Here you go.

And yeah, the Lucario and Palutena ones would be the biggest holes, Lucario for reasons Wariofan1 said and Palutena because Nintendo hasn't done anything for TGS these past few years.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Seems fake enough.

Skyward Sword Zelda and Sheik gave it away.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, if there's no drastic changes in the future regarding Smash and more Ridley appearances in Metroid or whatnot, I can see SSB4 being a likely last chance for him at the moment too, but with how things can change in the future, ya never know. If Sakurai does actually have a specific reason for not wanting Ridley as a character though, I wonder if we'll hear it. If the reason is well, reasonable from a game designer's perspective I guess I could perhaps feel a little better about it at least.

I don't think Sakurai can give a good reason to not include Ridley as playable at this point. Pretty much anything he could use would come off as an excuse and in reality, would boil down to "I'm not interested in Ridley being playable". If Ridley is indeed a stage hazard, Sakurai will have to deal with the full force of backlash for the decision and there is nothing he can do to justify himself. Even if someone were to argue that he'd be a difficult character to implement, one has to look no further than Mega Man, who according to Sakurai, is harder in some ways to get in than making the game itself. It doesn't help that Ridley's exclusion from this game would only serve to make a more negative environment in regards to Smash discussion which is the last thing the community needs.

So yeah, I'd be mad at Sakurai. Not just because of Ridley's inclusion, but more importantly, it would create scars in the Smash community that would never fully recover. That's why I see Ridley's inclusion as so important, even if he's not the character I'm the most invested in or affect my decision to buy this game.

 

[Anomilus]

Just a fake "leak" which proclaims that Zero Suit Samus will be revealed this Tuesday. It has some holes in it, like Lucario being revealed on a Saturday (obviously overlooked by the creator of the leak since he just copy-pasted the release date of X & Y) and the fact that it doesn't dare go beyond 2013. Add to it that it comes from 4Chan, and it's legitimacy dies.

And we should all be glad that leak is false, because it suggests that Sakurai would use Other M's Ridley metamorphosis in some way. Either way I was doubting its legitimacy considering how late it comes and suddenly we're talking about "Mega Lucario". This is something that had ought to have been leaked sooner. "Something resembling Lucario", "A special transformation", "Some sort of new final smash". Anything slightly obscure to indicate that Lucario was getting something drastic. But throwing Mega Lucario in at this point is a big fat giveaway.

 

[Curious Villager]

one has to look no further than Mega Man, who according to Sakurai, is harder in some ways to get in than making the game itself.

Wasn't that with the whole third party licensing thing and all?

 

[Protom]

Seems fake enough.

Skyward Sword Zelda and Sheik gave it away.

 

[Anomilus]

I don't think Sakurai can give a good reason to not include Ridley as playable at this point. Pretty much anything he could use would come off as an excuse and in reality, would boil down to "I'm not interested in Ridley being playable". If Ridley is indeed a stage hazard, Sakurai will have to deal with the full force of backlash for the decision and there is nothing he can do to justify himself. Even if someone were to argue that he'd be a difficult character to implement, one has to look no further than Mega Man, who according to Sakurai, is harder in some ways to get in than making the game itself. It doesn't help that Ridley's exclusion from this game would only serve to make a more negative environment in regards to Smash discussion which is the last thing the community needs.

So yeah, I'd be mad at Sakurai. Not just because of Ridley's inclusion, but more importantly, it would create scars in the Smash community that would never fully recover. That's why I see Ridley's inclusion as so important, even if he's not the character I'm the most invested in or affect my decision to buy this game.

Ehh, I think I could be okay with some reasons from Sakurai. Frustrated, sure. But I'd likely be more relieve to have closure.

> "Too Big" would be the #1 most frustrating thing to hear, and us Ridley fans would get hell over it from the TooBigots. But it would mean that Sakurai genuinely felt such a size change wouldn't work well and/or would be too jarring to accept.

> "Isn't unique enough" however would be the worst possible reason Sakurai could give, and I'd just about lose all respect for him as a game designer.

> "Couldn't come up with solid vision of him playable" is an acceptable reason. He's already established this could hinder a character's inclusion. It also means it's not the end of the role for Ridley's future.

> "Not enough time" is another acceptable reason. Should Ridley prove especially difficult to implement, he could possibly be dropped at some point. Would suck for sure, but not the worst reason for his exclusion.

And here's one possibility I think could happen but we would never hear from him:

> "I wanted to but Sakamoto objected." Ooooohhh boy if we ever found out Sakamoto had something to do with Ridley's exclusion from the roster..... OHHH BOOOYYY...

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't that with the whole third party licensing thing and all?

Sakurai noted back in February, 2008 that third-party characters were in some ways, harder to fit in than making the character itself. Because Mega Man is a third-party, I'm almost certain that fitting him in was an extremely difficult process and that it would take less effort for Sakurai to add Ridley. Not that fitting Ridley in would be easy, but surely getting Ridley in can't be harder than making the game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

> "I wanted to but Sakamoto objected." Ooooohhh boy if we ever found out Sakamoto had something to do with Ridley's exclusion from the roster..... OHHH BOOOYYY...

I'd buy a box full of kittens, only to slaughter them brutally, then personally fly to Japan and deliver the box to Sakamoto. Seriously, as if I'm not ticked off enough that my favorite franchise is in his hands, this would simply hit me too hard.

I don't think Sakurai can give a good reason to not include Ridley as playable at this point. Pretty much anything he could use would come off as an excuse and in reality, would boil down to "I'm not interested in Ridley being playable". If Ridley is indeed a stage hazard, Sakurai will have to deal with the full force of backlash for the decision and there is nothing he can do to justify himself. Even if someone were to argue that he'd be a difficult character to implement, one has to look no further than Mega Man, who according to Sakurai, is harder in some ways to get in than making the game itself. It doesn't help that Ridley's exclusion from this game would only serve to make a more negative environment in regards to Smash discussion which is the last thing the community needs.

So yeah, I'd be mad at Sakurai. Not just because of Ridley's inclusion, but more importantly, it would create scars in the Smash community that would never fully recover. That's why I see Ridley's inclusion as so important, even if he's not the character I'm the most invested in or affect my decision to buy this game.

Oh how I've missed your posts.

 

[Arcadenik]

Out of curiosity, I tried to match up the Super Metroid Samus and The Baby with the Melee pick, and size Samus as appropriate.

Samus ends up roughly the same size as Ridley's head. So Ridley is still pretty big in the Melee intro. We also see him from a more head-on perspective, so we can't see just how big his face and tail actually are.

You're correct about your more general point, how it shows that a smaller Ridley doesn't look weird, to some people. Other people may disagree.

Wait.... have you considered the possibility that Melee Ridley might not be small? That he is really big but appeared smaller than he really is because he is far away from the camera?

Oh, and remember that picture with Olimar and Kirby where Sakurai talked about their sizes? What if he wasn't talking about Ridley... but rather Chibi-Robo? That robot is relevant now with that 3DS photography game coming out in Japan this year. It even got a Puzzle Swap panel.