Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Xandercosm]

Been thinking about possibly picking up Greninja after the nerf to MK (really sad, I don't want to talk about it). I haven't decided if I'm dropping him yet but, in the hypothetical case that I am, would Greninja be a good character to fill that gap? MK was always my technical character.

Tell me if you think I might like him and what I need to know to get started if I do decide to start playing him for real.

 

[Piipp]

Rosalina is even man. It's definitely one of his hardest one, but I dread Fox and Sonic more

I think Rosa rekts greninja imo

Edit: Whenever Rosa has Luma, she rekts Greninja. I think whenever she doesn't have Luma that Greninja does work.

 

[Jalil]

Honestly, Greninja maaaaay gain a slight advantage against Rosalina with our Fair being more flexible. I could see it being a factor in pushing us slightly over the edge in a few of our other even MUs, too. Can't wait to really be able to explore things after I get back (FG and tourneys are pretty okay, but not a lot of Smashfests that I've found over here, and being able to play against someone consistently is important for exploring this stuff). On the other hand, I did find that full charged shuriken to Fair to dash attack to Fair at low percents can work on some fast fallers/heavy weights, which is nice. Might've been a combo before, Idk, but if it was, we have a ton more leniency on it now.

Edit: Also forgot to mention Bair being safer will probably end up being a nice boon against Rosalina, too, since it's one of the moves we have that always knocks Luma away. As much love as I give our new Fair, I should probably look into Bair, too. Guess that'll be the thing I use to pull myself out of Pokken haha.

The best thing to go for after a fully charged shuriken at really low percents is a footstool cuz it leads to more damage and is less affected by di but this seems like a nice alternative if you aren't confident going for a footstool.

 

[KERO]

The best thing to go for after a fully charged shuriken at really low percents is a footstool cuz it leads to more damage and is less affected by di but this seems like a nice alternative if you aren't confident going for a footstool.

Footstool is good when you can get it, but I feel like there might be situations where you're too far away when the shuriken hits to get the footstool but can still get this, and on fastfallers especially, they might default to a ground footstool if you try one out of FC shuriken unless conditions are perfect. Funnily enough, on some characters like Bowser, you can seemingly get a footstool out of the Fair from this instead of a DA.

Xandercosm If you're looking for Greninja as a potential secondary, I wouldn't be super confident in recommending him just because he is very technical. You would have to put a ton of time into the character for him to really end up a useful secondary. Even just outside of stuff like footstool tech, Greninja is a difficult character to grasp (he has a very unorthodox combination of the overall best raw mobility but some of the worst start-up in the game). Unless you're 100% comfortable potentially having to put more work into Greninja than your main in order to keep him up to speed, I wouldn't recommend it. However, if you just want to use Greninja for one or two MUs (like Bayo), then I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to pick him up, but you're still going to have to put a good amount of work into him.

As for what kind of character Greninja is, I'd categorize him as a zoning/hit&run character. He also has an extensive combo game of course, but his general gameplan tends to involve one of those two playstyles depending on the situation. His zoning can be further broken down into two categories depending on whether he's trying to play aggressively or defensively. Regardless of either, due to poor frame data, Greninja is almost always playing a reactive game, often trying to force 50/50s. Unless you know the opponent is scared, Greninja can't really commit to much (although Nair is very safe, one has to be frame perfect with it on shield in order to not get punished).

Defensively, Greninja has shurikens to force approaches, but past a certain point, he needs to basically figure out the opponent's approach and select the correct option to keep them out since none of his options can just be spammed to cover everything (although, Fair maaaaay have shifted that balance quite a bit). Basically, if one can think of Brawl Olimar as a fortress, Greninja can be thought of as a fencer. He has all the tools to cover every angle, and he can capitalize on a successful attack very well, but he doesn't have one single option or strategy that covers everything.

Offensively, Greninja relies a lot on suggested pressure, where Greninja waits right outside of the opponent's range for them to do something punishable, occasionally backing out slightly and throwing a shuriken to bait the opponent if the opponent is playing it safe. The idea, offensively, is that the opponent needs to feel pressured by us without us throwing too many moves out (if we do, we leave ourselves open to the opponent rushing in between moves), and they'll eventually respond to that pressure in a way that we can punish.

Once Greninja does get a hit, he can often get some pretty neat combos at low to mid percents, but in some cases, there will be 50/50 situations, and while Greninja can get some nice strings off of 50/50s, you may at times find damage output lacking if you're not often able to come out on top in those situations.

Probably the most key aspect of Greninja is his mobility; you almost never want to stand still and box yourself in, and you shouldn't even be afraid to leave the ground. Being able to weave around as well as Greninja does is hugely beneficial to his spacing game, and as I mentioned before, he can fill the hit&run archetype very well when he needs to. As a character with poor damage output outside of combos and terrible start-up, our mobility often ends up a more important factor than any of our moves. If you're serious about learning Greninja, taking at least 1-3 hours to become comfortable with how he moves is probably the first thing you should do. At no point should Greninja ever end up in a place slightly different than where you intended him to be, which can happen easily if you aren't fully comfortable with his movement.

If none of that scared you away from the character, then go ahead and pick him up, but remember that, in order to keep him on par with your other seconds or main, you will have to put some serious time into him.

 

[realmwars]

So I've been recently trying to pick up Greninja as a pocket character thanks to iStudying. And I was hoping I could get some tips on using him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6tyP99ufAo

Here's a replay of me using him in an online match with friends. If it's not too much to ask, I would just like an evaluation on how I use him. What I'm doing right, what I need to work on, and other fancy tricks I should practice with using this character.

 

[Xandercosm]

Footstool is good when you can get it, but I feel like there might be situations where you're too far away when the shuriken hits to get the footstool but can still get this, and on fastfallers especially, they might default to a ground footstool if you try one out of FC shuriken unless conditions are perfect. Funnily enough, on some characters like Bowser, you can seemingly get a footstool out of the Fair from this instead of a DA.

Xandercosm If you're looking for Greninja as a potential secondary, I wouldn't be super confident in recommending him just because he is very technical. You would have to put a ton of time into the character for him to really end up a useful secondary. Even just outside of stuff like footstool tech, Greninja is a difficult character to grasp (he has a very unorthodox combination of the overall best raw mobility but some of the worst start-up in the game). Unless you're 100% comfortable potentially having to put more work into Greninja than your main in order to keep him up to speed, I wouldn't recommend it. However, if you just want to use Greninja for one or two MUs (like Bayo), then I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to pick him up, but you're still going to have to put a good amount of work into him.

As for what kind of character Greninja is, I'd categorize him as a zoning/hit&run character. He also has an extensive combo game of course, but his general gameplan tends to involve one of those two playstyles depending on the situation. His zoning can be further broken down into two categories depending on whether he's trying to play aggressively or defensively. Regardless of either, due to poor frame data, Greninja is almost always playing a reactive game, often trying to force 50/50s. Unless you know the opponent is scared, Greninja can't really commit to much (although Nair is very safe, one has to be frame perfect with it on shield in order to not get punished).

Defensively, Greninja has shurikens to force approaches, but past a certain point, he needs to basically figure out the opponent's approach and select the correct option to keep them out since none of his options can just be spammed to cover everything (although, Fair maaaaay have shifted that balance quite a bit). Basically, if one can think of Brawl Olimar as a fortress, Greninja can be thought of as a fencer. He has all the tools to cover every angle, and he can capitalize on a successful attack very well, but he doesn't have one single option or strategy that covers everything.

Offensively, Greninja relies a lot on suggested pressure, where Greninja waits right outside of the opponent's range for them to do something punishable, occasionally backing out slightly and throwing a shuriken to bait the opponent if the opponent is playing it safe. The idea, offensively, is that the opponent needs to feel pressured by us without us throwing too many moves out (if we do, we leave ourselves open to the opponent rushing in between moves), and they'll eventually respond to that pressure in a way that we can punish.

Once Greninja does get a hit, he can often get some pretty neat combos at low to mid percents, but in some cases, there will be 50/50 situations, and while Greninja can get some nice strings off of 50/50s, you may at times find damage output lacking if you're not often able to come out on top in those situations.

Probably the most key aspect of Greninja is his mobility; you almost never want to stand still and box yourself in, and you shouldn't even be afraid to leave the ground. Being able to weave around as well as Greninja does is hugely beneficial to his spacing game, and as I mentioned before, he can fill the hit&run archetype very well when he needs to. As a character with poor damage output outside of combos and terrible start-up, our mobility often ends up a more important factor than any of our moves. If you're serious about learning Greninja, taking at least 1-3 hours to become comfortable with how he moves is probably the first thing you should do. At no point should Greninja ever end up in a place slightly different than where you intended him to be, which can happen easily if you aren't fully comfortable with his movement.

If none of that scared you away from the character, then go ahead and pick him up, but remember that, in order to keep him on par with your other seconds or main, you will have to put some serious time into him.

Well, thanks for the advice. I definitely don't feel like that's what I want. I really need just a solid replacement secondary that I won't have to put hundreds of hours into to be good with. I really like Greninja, but the points you made are really true. I think he's not for me. Anyway, I'm happy you took the time to help me out here.

 

[KERO]

So I've been recently trying to pick up Greninja as a pocket character thanks to iStudying. And I was hoping I could get some tips on using him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6tyP99ufAo

Here's a replay of me using him in an online match with friends. If it's not too much to ask, I would just like an evaluation on how I use him. What I'm doing right, what I need to work on, and other fancy tricks I should practice with using this character.

Sorry if this sounds pretentious, but there are quite a few things you do need to work on. Firstly, Greninja isn't a pocket character for reasons I already explained. Either you put the time into him for at least a couple MUs or you're better off with your main. Secondly, stop using Shadow Sneak so often. It's an absolutely abysmal move in general (does have very niche uses, like punishing airdodges/people in helpless landing and the occasional mix-up, but it is not something you should be using often). Also, don't commit to smashes so often, especially at lower percents. All of them have terrible endlag and can be easily punished. Finally, don't always Dair if you're above them. Also, if you see the opponent not get hit by hit 2 of jab, don't fully commit to hit 3 since hit 3 does have notable cool-down.

As for what you should be doing, be more mobile. Don't just stand in one place (there would often be times where you would just stand somewhere and throw out moves). Greninja has incredible mobility; use it to your advantage in order to space your moves out better. Spacing out aerials like Fair and Nair is especially important. You also should have gone for Fair out of those Dash Attacks. Also, in addition to dash attack, dash grab is a fantastic punish since Uthrow combos into Uair at mid-percents while Dthrow and Fthrow put opponents in uncomfortable situations and give us momentum.

Just from watching, it didn't seem you were very comfortable using Greninja, so I'd definitely recommend taking time in Training Mode just to simply move around with him and figure out the timing of his moves, especially his aerials. Once you get that+become comfortable with Hydro Pump, I'd recommend starting to work on getting his myriad of combos down, namely the easier ones (not the footstool stuff). As important as reading the opponent is to playing Greninja, he also requires a hefty amount of lab time. Like I said before, he is not a pocket character, and you are going to need to put in a lot of time with him if you want to see results.

If you want a good idea of how Greninja works in a general sense, I made a post earlier on this same page that kind of gives you an idea of that.

Xandercosm

Yeah, sorry to scare you away from the character; I absolutely love seeing new Greninja crop up, but he does require a certain amount of dedication that I know most people don't want to give to a secondary, which is completely fine. Hope you do find a suitable replacement for Meta Knight in some other character, though.

 

[realmwars]

Sorry if this sounds pretentious, but there are quite a few things you do need to work on. Firstly, Greninja isn't a pocket character for reasons I already explained. Either you put the time into him for at least a couple MUs or you're better off with your main. Secondly, stop using Shadow Sneak so often. It's an absolutely abysmal move in general (does have very niche uses, like punishing airdodges/people in helpless landing and the occasional mix-up, but it is not something you should be using often). Also, don't commit to smashes so often, especially at lower percents. All of them have terrible endlag and can be easily punished. Finally, don't always Dair if you're above them. Also, if you see the opponent not get hit by hit 2 of jab, don't fully commit to hit 3 since hit 3 does have notable cool-down.

As for what you should be doing, be more mobile. Don't just stand in one place (there would often be times where you would just stand somewhere and throw out moves). Greninja has incredible mobility; use it to your advantage in order to space your moves out better. Spacing out aerials like Fair and Nair is especially important. You also should have gone for Fair out of those Dash Attacks. Also, in addition to dash attack, dash grab is a fantastic punish since Uthrow combos into Uair at mid-percents while Dthrow and Fthrow put opponents in uncomfortable situations and give us momentum.

Just from watching, it didn't seem you were very comfortable using Greninja, so I'd definitely recommend taking time in Training Mode just to simply move around with him and figure out the timing of his moves, especially his aerials. Once you get that+become comfortable with Hydro Pump, I'd recommend starting to work on getting his myriad of combos down, namely the easier ones (not the footstool stuff). As important as reading the opponent is to playing Greninja, he also requires a hefty amount of lab time. Like I said before, he is not a pocket character, and you are going to need to put in a lot of time with him if you want to see results.

If you want a good idea of how Greninja works in a general sense, I made a post earlier on this same page that kind of gives you an idea of that.

Xandercosm

Yeah, sorry to scare you away from the character; I absolutely love seeing new Greninja crop up, but he does require a certain amount of dedication that I know most people don't want to give to a secondary, which is completely fine. Hope you do find a suitable replacement for Meta Knight in some other character, though.

Nah it's completely fine, I appreciate your input on this. I'll keep these into consideration and attempt them in training mode.

 

[sedrf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1j6l8fyzt0&t=3s
I seen this,but doubt if this is true or it's diable.
Can you guys help me with this?

 

[FullMoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1j6l8fyzt0&t=3s
I seen this,but doubt if this is true or it's diable.
Can you guys help me with this?

This always existed and it's DIable

 

[bc1910]

Greninja/Rosa is not 35:65 lmao. That's like, as bad as the old Sheik MU.

It's around even, she's annoying but Greninja is one of the best characters at knocking Luma away. Spamming shurikens to bait out GP works as well because Greninja can run in and dashgrab so quickly.

 

[Gekkouga]

So, Ally is thinking about picking Greninja. It might not even happen, but i'm glad more people and especially pro players are interested in our lovable frog once again. By the way, what happened to Some? Is he stil labbing with Sheik? After her latest nerfs he might go back to Greninja..

Also after lurking for several years I finally decided to join and post I'm a huge Greninja fanatic from Chile, and I always enjoy reading you all ◥θ┴θ◤

 

[Jalil]

So, Ally is thinking about picking Greninja. It might not even happen, but i'm glad more people and especially pro players are interested in our lovable frog once again. By the way, what happened to Some? Is he stil labbing with Sheik? After her latest nerfs he might go back to Greninja..

Also after lurking for several years I finally decided to join and post I'm a huge Greninja fanatic from Chile, and I always enjoy reading you all ◥θ┴θ◤

Hi and welcome to smashboards
Somé never really dropped greninja. He got top 8 at a Japanese tournament with him somewhat recently as well.

 

[Y2Kay]

Some is a cruel player that fooled us into believing he'd left us. The troll as actually perfecting his craft lol

Greninja/Rosa is not 35:65 lmao. That's like, as bad as the old Sheik MU.

It's around even, she's annoying but Greninja is one of the best characters at knocking Luma away. Spamming shurikens to bait out GP works as well because Greninja can run in and dashgrab so quickly.

To add some context, the number one player in me and Piipp 's area (and state) is a main. I'm not sure if that's the reason why he had the matchup so skewed in Rosalina's favor.

 

[Piipp]

Greninja/Rosa is not 35:65 lmao. That's like, as bad as the old Sheik MU.

It's around even, she's annoying but Greninja is one of the best characters at knocking Luma away. Spamming shurikens to bait out GP works as well because Greninja can run in and dashgrab so quickly.

A good Rosa isnt going to fall for that for long. They'll catch on to the bait and just start hopping over the shurikens or just SH GP. Also since Greninja is a fast faller, its easier for Rosa to get Uair strings off of uthrow

 

[KERO]

Not sure if there's really a reason to be approaching Rosa to begin with unless you're at some huge deficit, but I think it should be kept in mind that Rosalina gets 0 benefit from pulling in shuriken since we can just toss another one out afterward, forcing her to either shield or GP again. She definitely has plenty of annoying tools, but Greninja is able to deal with them all one way or another. Honestly, it's a MU I personally really enjoy since you need to have a good handle on and be able to switch between both defensive Greninja play and offensive pressure-based play. In general, it's a good to be able to do that for any MU, but playing against a Rosa almost feels like one of those boss fights whose sole purpose is to see if the player understands a mechanic/strategy, with clear "phases" of sorts. Not to trivialize the MU, though; Luma is a pain to deal with, and always going aggro/defensive in x situation is gonna get you punished hard by better Rosa mains, but it's still a MU where I feel things are manageable and losing it is simply due to my opponent outplaying me more than anything else.

Zone hard, get rid of Luma when the pay-off outweighs the cost (being able to determine this is super important), be patient, and don't feel pressured to approach once Luma is gone; it can always be knocked away again after it comes back, and you don't want to play into their hands if you know they expect heavy aggro play. If you're at a percent where Uair shenanigans can happen out of throws, just avoid the grab, and always take another option, even if that other options involves getting hit a different way. Also, if you're landing in a manner where you know they can't dash grab but can go for a dash attack, and you know you aren't gonna avoid it for whatever reason, Shadow Sneak; it avoids the second hit and hits her in retaliation. Regarding Luma separation, once I knock Luma away, my attention is 90% on Luma afterward, but if Rosalina makes any attempts to approach to stop me, then it's closer to 50/50 because I know Rosalina has to make some kind of commitment to stop Greninja from juggling Luma across the stage, and if there's enough time to punish that while still bopping Luma around, it's definitely not a bad idea to throw out a Bair or something to knock her back. Of course, that only applies if the two are separated with me between them or Luma in front of Rosa. If Rosa is in front, it's generally not in your best interest to continue pursuing Luma unless she's near the ledge, in which case, you can try and pressure her with a Fair, see if she commits to something and punish, or go in with something like dash attack that will probably knock Luma off stage, without her being able to really punish it super hard. Without Luma, Rosalina loses a lot of defensive options, and you should feel a bit more free to go for risks occasionally.

Also, I can't stress this enough, at no point against Rosalina should you ever feel pressured to do x thing. If she is making commitments risky without Luma, play things a bit safer, keep in mind that Uthrow kills her ridiculously early, and try and pressure her into jabs, Nair, Fair, and shurikens. If she's spamming GP, there's really no reason to approach. As silly as this sounds, very few players have the patience to sit there spamming GP all day, and even fewer won't get nervous if you get increasingly close but out of range for her to make a commitment successfully The range for when you actually can do something is murky at best, so if they really are that patient, play a game of chicken with them and see at what point they get scared, or if they don't, punish them when you know you can. Players aren't robots, and they'll make dumb decisions based on false perceptions, but it's way easier to feel threatened when committing to GP than throwing out a projectile because, if we mess up, which technically we do every time a shuriken gets absorbed, we aren't punished, but if she messes up, she is gonna get hit by a shuriken or worse. Just keep in mind that you're basically in control of that situation, and the opponent is in an entirely defensive position where they get 0 reward for success. Basically, never let her dictate what you can and can't do; that's the easiest way to lose to Rosa.

By the way, I just said a bunch about what we can do to Rosalina, but there are certainly things she can do to us. Even though we can knock away Luma easily, he's still an absolute pest to us with his priority and ability to somewhat circumvent our spacing, punishing her aerials is a pretty big pain for us, and while we can mess up her recovery, a Luma interception on ours (which is not unusual due to our lack of a hitbox with hitstun) is basically death in most cases. I just wanted to mostly focus on ways we can succeed against her, though. Also, her being floaty makes her juggle/Usmash bait, which is nice (as always, keep cautious of Luma and watch out for a desperate Dair).

Now... onto what I originally came into here to post about, I am absolutely abysmal at Pokken lol. Not super unexpected, though; I was garbage at the Touhou fighting games and Tatsunoko, and I had a couple of people try to get me into one of the Melty Blood games once, but I wasn't even able to get what was, I think anyway, considered a brain-dead combo down. Plowed my way through the "story" mode (still lost to a Gardevoir...) because the AI is bad/has 0 idea of how to get around Chandelure's projectiles, but Idk if I really have any interest in going online and getting destroyed by everyone. Might wait until I get back to the states and see if a friend is kind enough to teach me how to play because there's no way I'm learning on my own lol. Every time a computer got past my projectiles, I got destroyed >_>

Edit: Beat a Shadow Mewtwo online. So, I didn't start out losing at least =x

 

[bc1910]

A good Rosa isnt going to fall for that for long. They'll catch on to the bait and just start hopping over the shurikens or just SH GP. Also since Greninja is a fast faller, its easier for Rosa to get Uair strings off of uthrow

I feel like Y2Kay ' explanation for why you think this is a bad MU is the correct one.

There's no high level evidence that Greninja does as badly as you're saying (aMSa barely lost to Dabuz, iStudying beat Wilksy15) and none of us think this MU is bad. Even Dabuz, who I feel overrates the MU, put it in his "you can lose these but you shouldn't" category and not his big advantage category. There's no evidence to support what you're saying.

 

[FullMoon]

I'm relatively competent at Pokken, Lucario is fun and I started winning more than losing online.

I'm dressing my character in blue clothes and pink scarf in honor of our frog as well.

 

[PK Gaming]

Sup.

Has been Greninja now been buffed to a point where he's better than his pre 1.04 incarnation? The answer seems like an obvious "yes" but i'm not 100% sure.

 

[Jalil]

Sup.

Has been Greninja now been buffed to a point where he's better than his pre 1.04 incarnation? The answer seems like an obvious "yes" but i'm not 100% sure.

Pre patch fair and up kill killed reasonably earlier, shuriken was faster, up smash had so little end lag, up air had a bigger meteor effect making up air dragging more reliable and didn't whiff while falling down, hydropump had a much bigger winbox effect and he could crouch under lasers. Pre patch greninja had a few overturned moves + some almost useless ones (f tilt) while the current one is more well rounded and almost every move has its purpose.
Pre patch greninja with as much of a developed meta as the current one would still be a better character imo.

 

[FullMoon]

Greninja is a very well balanced character right now. He's good without being abusive, the only characters that get dominated by him are those that are pretty damn bad.

Vanilla Greninja was a bit of a mess

 

[Y2Kay]

hey guys, in case you missed it, @istudying streams now:

https://www.twitch.tv/istudying/profile

 

[PK Gaming]

I see, I had no idea pre-patch Greninja had so many overtuned options.

That said, I definitely think his recent incarnation is more well-rounded. Better grab, less lag on aerials, better Water Shuriken, fixed tools...

The new Greninja feels like a character with a ton of potential.

 

[FullMoon]

He doesn't have a better shuriken exactly. Vanilla had less endlag meaning you could do dumb things like getting guaranted dash grabs on people shielding the charged one (you can still do that if they shield the last hit though), but less start-up makes zoning a bit easier to me at least. It's more of a trade-off.

Only overtuned moves were really Up-Smash and Hydro Pump, the latter more so. F-Air killing later makes it combo easier and I don't think Up-Air spike was very different from one version to the other, in fact I heard claims it was easier to do post-patch.

I think overall Greninja has a lot more options than he used to have in vanilla in exchange for not having dumb stuff. We have D-Throw setups, an usable F-Tilt, more options and safety out of F-Air and B-Air thanks to the landing lag reduction and a faster DA and standing grab doesn't hurt either. I feel he's a more versatile character now which I personally feel is better for him.

Anyway

Here's my avatar in Pokkén, for some reason my capture card makes the colors look a bit darker, it looks closer to Greninja's actual coloration in the actual game =V

 

[bc1910]

Current air shurikens are the best they've ever been as well, because they have post-patch startup with pre-patch ending lag. They also fixed the bug where Greninja doesn't stall in the air when throwing them, so spamming SH shurikens has never been better.

I prefer the current build to the vanilla build. More fun to use and more well-rounded. As for which build is better, it's really hard to say since the vanilla build existed in a very different environment - 3DS only (hence bigger blastzones), less shieldstun, vectoring, and pre-patch Diddy and Sheik running rampant.

If the vanilla build was plopped into the current game there would be some initial outcry over Usmash and maybe Hydro Pump (I went back to play vanilla and Hydro Pump actually isn't that different, if you hit an opponent who's not using their Up B they still barely go anywhere) but I feel there are some MUs that Greninja does well in now that vanilla would be worse at. Fair's new landing lag is really nice as is Dthrow's ending lag. I'm not sure which build is objectively better.

 

[Y2Kay]

I had recorded this for the giigles but I'm genuinely interested in how I did that

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I'm addicted to Pokken

Top 50 in the US atm....

Weavile is my main!

 

[ROBnWatch]

Let's see...Pokken...

Pikachu
Charizard
Gengar
Lucario
Suicune
Weavile
Gardevoir
Blaziken
Braixen
Shadow Mewtwo
Machamp

Isn't that it? Or am I forgetting someone?

 

[FullMoon]

You forgot Pikachu Libre and regular Mewtwo

 

[Y2Kay]

It's impossible to pick a main in Pokken

I've narrowed it down to:

Mewtwo
Shadow Mewtwo
Sceptile
Lucario
Garchomp
Blaziken
Weavile
Suicune

It's like a third of the cast I know....

 

[FullMoon]

Meanwhile I'm just going Lucario

Only Lucario

I literally haven't used anyone else

 

[Lavani]

It's impossible to pick a main in Pokken

I've narrowed it down to:

Mewtwo
Shadow Mewtwo
Sceptile
Lucario
Garchomp
Blaziken
Weavile

It's like a third of the cast I know....

None of those are Chandelure.

 

[Y2Kay]

None of those are Chandelure.

because all of them are better

 

[ROBnWatch]

OK, so all of those I mentioned above plus Sceptile, Garchomp, Chandelure, Mewtwo, and Pikachu Libre.

 

[Ludiloco]

A good Rosa isnt going to fall for that for long. They'll catch on to the bait and just start hopping over the shurikens or just SH GP. Also since Greninja is a fast faller, its easier for Rosa to get Uair strings off of uthrow

I'm sorry but you have an entire thread of frog mains disagreeing with you. I have experience with Rayquaza who is arguably a top 3 Rosa in the world and he feels the mu is 55:45 Rosa at worst for Greninja, possibly even.

Dash attack spaces itself really well to knock luma away and avoid major punishes. Fair is super safe, knocks luma away. Nair punishes unsafe moves hard and separates the two. Even bair works. Rosa can't challenge u smash and dies really early to it. We run circles around her, and honestly I think f smash is a really good move in the mu too due to luma extending its hitbox. We are, along with most sword characters, among the best at getting rid of luma effectively, our mobility beats hers, and our kill power rivals hers. Short hop shuriken is also really good vs her, it hits her tall hurtbox and stunts her approach. Even shurikens on Luma aren't bad due to them racking up some damage.

Our high jump is also incredibly good at getting us out of sticky situations with Rosa's up air. You should never ever be air dodging into it, and Rosa never has a guaranteed throw to up air setup or 50/50 that will kill us. Ever. Just jump and you'll be fine.

The only part of the mu that is hard for Greninja is recovering, which can be gotten around by effectively mixing up high and low recoveries, and even then mixing up your angle to avoid edge guard attempts. Avoid her sweet spot dair at all costs at all %, but at high % when bair or nair will kill it's more of a guessing game. Just watch what she's doing and don't get baited into doing something you're gonna die for.

It is definitely not 65:35 in any world.

 

[Piipp]

Guys I said earlier that with luma I feel that it was 65 35. I understand that Greninja is really good at getting rid of luma which is really important in the mu. That ratio shouldn't even matter because of how good he is at ridding luma. I had even added, because I forgot to mention, that without luma that Greninja goes even or 55 45. But since Luma is as good as he is I felt like giving my opinion on how Greninja does against the both of them without ridding of luma. It wasn't any kind of official MU rating

 

[Ninja101]

got rekt by a bayonetta at a local...







still placed good though ;3

 

[Igneo]

Hi! I´m new in the board.

It is my first Smash Bros, For 3D´s :D
My main is Greninja.
I hope fun with you and my English is not very good. (Not yet)
I am learning XD. x.x
Correct me, plis
Now in Spanish:
------------------
Los pocos lugares en que escribo en ingles coloco en español también por que a veces no la riego en escribirlo XD.
Hola, soy nuevo en el foro!
Mi personaje principal es Greninja y este es mi primer Smash Bros, el de 3Ds
Seria genial si me corrigen, así para poder mejorar! :D

 

[Mocha]

Hi! I´m new in the board.

It is my first Smash Bros, For 3D´s :D
My main is Greninja.
I hope fun with you and my English is not very good. (Not yet)
I am learning XD. x.x
Correct me, plis
Now in Spanish:
------------------
Los pocos lugares en que escribo en ingles coloco en español también por que a veces no la riego en escribirlo XD.
Hola, soy nuevo en el foro!
Mi personaje principal es Greninja y este es mi primer Smash Bros, el de 3Ds
Seria genial si me corrigen, así para poder mejorar! :D

My Spanish is a little rusty but welcome to the thread!

Bienvenido, esperamos que disfrute de su estancia aquí!

 

[Igneo]

Bienvenido, esperamos que disfrute de su estancia aquí!
------------------------
Thank you :D
Pues, es perfectamente entendible XD.