Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Chileno4Live]

You can watch the matches @ geekygoonsquad on YouTube. They're uploaded. Great work from @istudying.

 

[Fancykong]

Shadow Sneaking over from the Wii Fit Trainer boards to give a Sun Salutation to the Greninja mains of Beast 6! You all played phenomenally, culminating with @istudying getting into top 8. Very impressive indeed!

 

[Ludiloco]

Today is a great day for Greninja mains everywhere. iStudying showing us it can be done.

Not to take away from his fantastic tourney but I managed to rack up 3 top 8 finishes this weekend. Unfortunately they all happened to be 7th, which 777 is a lot of money on a slot machine but $0 in smash womp womp. I have so much faith that this character really is good and the world is seeing that now.

OH and I got my revenge on that Mega Man that took me out on Thursday >: ) he hates the mu now

 

[iVoltage]

Just came back to smash and am in the process of learning Meta Knight, but I think I'm going to pick the frog back up again since it's not too late. I missed greninja u_u That set vs esam was legendary good stuff istudying

 

[nJrp]

Shoutout to @istudying really has inspired me. Such a crazy Greninja, he's the #1 Greninja main in my heart.

 

[Lone V]

Watching the B6 replays now and WOW that fourth Losers Finals game against Esam. I already knew @istudying won and yet I was so nervous the entire time, nearly popped off when the sweetspot upsmash landed. So hype!

 

[Lone V]

Here's a montage I just found of @istudying 's performance at Beast 6:

https://youtu.be/slutCpJqlqs

 

[Jaguar360]

Ate Nairo's Ganondorf feet on For Glory last night. Was so nervous and kept accidentally f-smashing and Shadow Sneaking. So close.

http://www.twitch.tv/nairomk/v/48930361?t=1h30m30s

 

[BlitzTrain]

I haven't been following tournaments or pro smashers just because the whole scene is confusing for me to get into, but @istudying gave me a pretty good reason to start paying more attention. That was simply awesome!
Gives me incentive to put a bit more effort into figuring out how to get to low-tier tournament events in my state and finding time to practice on Anther's Ladder or For Glory too.

Ate Nairo's Ganondorf feet on For Glory last night. Was so nervous and kept accidentally f-smashing and Shadow Sneaking. So close.

That was really close, did you know you were on stream at the time?

 

[Jaguar360]

I haven't been following tournaments or pro smashers just because the whole scene is confusing for me to get into, but @istudying gave me a pretty good reason to start paying more attention. That was simply awesome!
Gives me incentive to put a bit more effort into figuring out how to get to low-tier tournament events in my state and finding time to practice on Anther's Ladder or For Glory too.



That was really close, did you know you were on stream at the time?

Seeing his name, I figured that I was on stream, but I wasn't watching at the time. I went to check to see if he was streaming afterwards and he was surely enough.

I wonder what an offline encounter with him in NJ would be like haha. I found it interesting that he recognized my name before we fought (probably from me liking some of his Smashboards posts or something).

 

[Mocha]

Now I need to add a batch of @istudying vids to a tab on our video thread, respectively. Also, if any of Eddy's matches got saved, please let me know so I can add them too. Time to get to work~

 

[Jaguar360]

Now I need to add a batch of @istudying vids to a tab on our video thread, respectively. Also, if any of Eddy's matches got saved, please let me know so I can add them too. Time to get to work~

Eddy's matches might come up on SaltyPlayground's channel sooner or later. They have some of the pre-Top 8 matches and Doubles (including two of Eddy + Light btw) so far.

 

[Mocha]

Be prepared for a long rant about Greninja in doubles. I'm hoping to get some meaningful discussion here, and curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

Like, why are there almost no doubles matches with Greninja? I noticed Eddy even switched to MK in other games. I would like to hear your input as to why, Eddy and your thoughts on Greninja in doubles. Also, the Sheik/Greninja team, as cool as the whole ninja thing goes, has that one flaw in which they have to work to get a kill. I know it's not always as black and white as this, but I really did notice how much this hurt the team when opponents were living to like 160+ if Greninja couldn't get the grab +upthrow.

From personal experience, I find that even with his mobility, he can get juggled a lot due to his awkward falling speed/aerial options, and his mobility actually hurts him due to running into everything. His shurikens can also be disruptive to his teammates, something which of course can be utilized by using them when facing away from teammates.

The overall impression I get from Greninja in dubs is that he's a 'support' char, weaves in and out to hit and run/come to his teammate's aid. Thoughts, guys? How could Greninja be used in doubles effectively? Partner/character dependent teammates included.

 

[FullMoon]

I suppose nobody is really paying attention to the doubles meta right now so Greninja is just kinda there during it.

I think Greninja could do a good job as a partner for Bayonetta. Bayo can use Bullet Climax without issues because he's too small to be hit by the shots and Greninja's F-Throw and B-Throw send opponents at a pretty good angle to set up a D-Smash edgeguard with Bayo. I'm not exactly sure how their combo tools would synergise with each other though.

 

[Mocha]

I suppose nobody is really paying attention to the doubles meta right now so Greninja is just kinda there during it.

I think Greninja could do a good job as a partner for Bayonetta. Bayo can use Bullet Climax without issues because he's too small to be hit by the shots and Greninja's F-Throw and B-Throw send opponents at a pretty good angle to set up a D-Smash edgeguard with Bayo. I'm not exactly sure how their combo tools would synergise with each other though.

Might be worth noting that you can substitute on her Bullet Climax if opponents are nearby, might even be possible to catch them in the upwards sub. I did this with Corrin's counter anyway, except that his counter > substitute, plus he could spam it till all the bullets are done.

Yeah I also found his F-throw and B-Throw easy to follow-up from with other chars. I'm wondering if there's anything partners can do out of Greninja's footstool/and or up air spike combos.

 

[Eddy]

I think Greninja is a great doubles character, because you can observe with him the whole situation thanks to his mobility in the air and the ground. Yeah youre right that greninja is more a " support" character in teams, and hes one of the best at this, when i see wholes in the gameplay of the opponent i usually sneak in with a fair/nair and jumping around sometimes is really effective with him lol the only flaw this team has is the killing problem but greninja can get them with his bthrow/dthrow into shieks usmash for example but we didnt utilize it at beast tbh we didnt even know about it I only switch in teams to CF/MK when i think the stage is more beneficial for this characters than greninja the MU also plays a role sometimes, but overall i think greninja is a very good doubles character because hes so safe overall and can interrupt the opponents gameplay/tactis almost anytime

 

[Y2Kay]

Wassup my ninjas? ◥ θ┴θ◤

How you boys enjoyin' not being underrated for a change? Being slept on had it's perks. It feels quite strange for so many people to agree with me with how good greninja is, but it's only for the best though!

However, as it has been for a while, the Sheik MU is a real issue. We should definitely meet up on discord and discuss it, any kind of counterplay and strategies we could come up with together would be really good.

istudying really believed this character can go far, even in the direst of times. There was times when even I thought he was a hopeless optimistic, but he was right!

istudying did make a major breakthrough with the character Sunday, but it can't end here. Sorry clan, but hiding in the shadows is over. We've been found out. Everyone now realizes greninja is a dope character. We can't hog it to ourselves. Now do you wanna croak under pressure and drown like Pacman, or do you want to become the staple character he is capable of?

My corny inspirational speech is over, hope yall are having a good day.

 

[Smeefy]

Question how would you get into the greninja discord I picked greninja back up after switching from puff

 

[Jaguar360]

Question how would you get into the greninja discord I picked greninja back up after switching from puff

Post in this thread. Shotcalla will invite you.

 

[Mocha]

Some stuff...

 

[FullMoon]

Mocha The trailer for the newest Smash tournament here in Rio included a picture of me with the plushie you gave me haha

 

[Mocha]

Mocha The trailer for the newest Smash tournament here in Rio included a picture of me with the plushie you gave me haha

Hype! Can I also just say that 'Koopacabana' just sounds so cool?

Plushie pic with you ftw (made me really happy to see it lol). Good luck with the tourney and the rest onwards!

 

[FullMoon]

Hype! Can I also just say that 'Koopacabana' just sounds so cool?

Plushie pic with you ftw (made me really happy to see it lol). Good luck with the tourney and the rest onwards!

The plush was my good luck charm during the tournament so after I took 1st place I decided that hey why not take a picture with it. It's probably one of the better pictures I've taken because I'm not photogenic at all and even then I still look highly dorky =V

This one tournament might end up being streamed so that might be my first time being in a stream for an offline tournament which both makes me happy and also a little nervous I have to admit.

Thanks by the way!

 

[31IV]

What the frog.

1:34 mark, if it doesn't work for everyone
(lag aside, that match was probably my worst in weeks)

 

[Silvia]

This is the most info I've ever seen. I'll post tips if I have any.

 

[ROBnWatch]

What the frog.

1:34 mark, if it doesn't work for everyone
(lag aside, that match was probably my worst in weeks)

Greninja will move forward sometimes when using Shadow Sneak if the direction is held for a short while. That coupled with the fact that he won't move off an edge while doing so, and the mechanics of the moving platform probably caused that.

 

[free33]

where did everyone go? the whole greninja forum has been silent the past like 5 days.

 

[ROBnWatch]

where did everyone go? the whole greninja forum has been silent the past like 5 days.

We're (Shadow) sneaking around...

 

[Jaguar360]

where did everyone go? the whole greninja forum has been silent the past like 5 days.

College sucks.

 

[KERO]

So, I was messing around in the lab with Substitute, and I may have figured out why we aren't intangible during the start-up of Sub's counter-attack: I'm almost certain we were meant to be. I don't believe I've seen this documented in any frame data, but Greninja should technically be intangible during the entirety of his re-appearance until the hitbox ends (or at least right before it ends). However, there's a strange catch to this: he only gains that intangibility if he begins his re-appearance on the ground and transfers into the air or vice versa at some point before the hitbox ends (I would imagine this period also includes the frames before the hitbox comes out, but this would only be possible if the ground below him either appeared or disappeared during that small window as he does not move during those frames). Assuming Greninja is hit by an opponent on ground level, all counterattack angles besides ones that send him downward technically will start him on the ground (this is why, if you double jump and Sub into, say, a Usmash and then attack straight upward, you'll get another double jump, because you technically touched the ground). For some strange reason, though, Greninja does not gain any intangibility until he leaves the ground. You can see this by having Greninja do a side-ways counterattack and note how he doesn't get the "flashing" intangibility signal until the moment he leaves the stage. This also works in the reverse: if Greninja is hit by a standing opponent and begins a side-ways counterattack off-stage, the moment he comes back on-stage, he is considered to have undergone a state transition from aerial to grounded and gains intangibility for the remainder of the hitbox's duration. Because Greninja does not actually leave the ground until after after the hitbox of the counterattack comes out during any of the upward counterattacks, he is left vulnerable for that small amount of time; I feel very sure in saying this probably wasn't intended (intangibility being dependent on Greninja going through a state transition just seems... bizarre).

You can test this intangibility by countering through a Smart Bomb or Bumper; it's a really weird quirk. Sorry if this stuff was already known; I've been pretty busy, so I haven't had much time to keep up. It's largely useless outside of doubles, but still a weird thing to note. Also, I'm working on some new data in regards to when we're able to escape Sheik Uair (it will cover every possible rage percentage since knowing when we can simply Shadow Sneak out of a Uair will probably be important for those that still want to try and play this MU). I'll try and have it out by next Monday if I can (I'll just make a post in the dedicated thread).

Edit: I will note that this does mean that the direction that makes Greninja go nearly straight along the ground with the upward diagonal kick is probably the safest and most reliable counterattack since he goes through the state change quite a bit away from the opponent but still goes straight at them for the counterattack, and I don't believe the attack itself hits any later than the other counterattacks in most cases.

 

[Y2Kay]

The only thing cool I was able to find was that the spike of U air can lead into tippered up smash. Someone probably knew this already

 

[TheblackGreninjaplayer]

Hey guys, i'm new here. I'm from Quebec,Canada, the only place in Canada where we talk french and i play smash 3ds, maining and for certain MU's. I was just a lurker here, but now i'm starting my true path in the smash community! Nice to meet you ! I also liek frogz I might have a Fetish Lol, nah i just really like gren, he's my fravrit pokeman (did you get that meme refference ?)
◥｡θ┴θ｡◤

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Hey guys been a while since i've posted on here... Discord sorta took over lol whats up?
Did you guys check out the Greninja hitbox visualization? there's some pretty useful stuff there..

 

[KERO]

Welcome to the boards, BlackGreninjaPlayer! Happy to have you participating! Hope you can be a bit more active than I've been lately haha. Also, no shame in loving frogs =x Greninja being a frog is the entire reason why I mained him! I could probably go on for hours about why I love frogs lol.

Also... so, after an incident where I played a Japanese Greninja on FG that I would say is a bit better than me (Nerikeshi) earlier today, I did a search on him out of curiosity. Turns out, he mentioned me on Twitter, so I decided to introduce myself. Welp, now both Shiki and he are following me on Twitter, and it was brought to my attention by a friend that Shiki has known about me for a while. I'm not great at Japanese, so figuring out what they're saying about me is difficult, but... this was not at all something I expected to happen, and I have no idea what to think about this.... Never really considered myself anywhere near being good enough to be noticed by Shiki or any other Japanese frog.

 

[ReRaze]

(I'm sorry I've been living under a rock) but could someone humour me as to what it means when a post gets 'd

 

[FullMoon]

(I'm sorry I've been living under a rock) but could someone humour me as to what it means when a post gets 'd

When someone posts something right before you do it yourself, people usually refer to that as being ninja'd. Since we have a ninja character in this game, we just call it being Greninja'd.

I believe before Greninja showed up the term was Sheik'd, not sure on that. Pokémon also had the term Ninjask'd for that before Greninja showed up.

 

[Mocha]

Next time you froggies ever team with a Bayonetta, try out this team combo...

Can kill as early as 50%ish percent depending on character weight, stage, and how fresh Shadow Sneak and Bayonetta's Upsmash is. When the moves don't cancel each other out, the opponent will get hit by either move. Even if you don't get the kill, it's great for racking up damage c:

You can also get a free sweet spot Upsmash with Greninja out of her Forward Throw at really early percent. At around 30-50, Greninja can follow up with an up air spike.

 

[Lavani]

While doing some research on angles, I learned that Greninja's usmash not linking properly against opponents standing on platforms is fully intentional.

There's three different autolink angles - 365°, 366°, and 367° - with slightly different functions. The angle used by usmash's first hit, 366°, launches vertically instead of being autolink if the opponent is grounded. Ergo, opponents standing on a platform will always be launched up and out of the move. If the move used 365° or 367° instead, it would link into the second hit just fine.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[FullMoon]

While doing some research on angles, I learned that Greninja's usmash not linking properly against opponents standing on platforms is fully intentional.

There's three different autolink angles - 365°, 366°, and 367° - with slightly different functions. The angle used by usmash's first hit, 366°, launches vertically instead of being autolink if the opponent is grounded. Ergo, opponents standing on a platform will always be launched up and out of the move. If the move used 365° or 367° instead, it would link into the second hit just fine.

Just thought I'd share.

That's really weird, I can't really get why they would make it do that intentionally. It's not like Up-Smash would be broken if that could be done.

It's so bizarre how the developers made Greninja intentionally wonky. First his crouching hitbox and now that is intentional too? Plus they never took out the hitstun cancel.

 

[RosalinA]

Hey guys I have Lucario secondary (main in customs) and I'm wondering if he loses to Greninja, or if he beats him. It would also help to know if he's higher or lower than Lucario on the tier list.