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Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

Talazala

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Ok, so I found out last week that there was this Greninja player that goes where I go (CMU weeklies), and is actually pretty good and placed 3rd. Two questions:

1. Is this one of you guys.
2. Why is there not a Greninja tournament result thread?
 

Marilink

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I'm convinced that Greninja vs. Kirby is one of the weirdest matchups in the game. So many odd and janky things happen when these two characters fight.

Later today I have a Gfy to share with you all where Triple R KO's me with Kirby's Rock...while I'm directly above him. It's dumb.
 

bc1910

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I've been getting a ton of kills through Up throw -> Uair lately. It stops true comboing at 90% (it's hard to combo past like 60% but possible, you just have to double jump quickly) but the 50/50 mixup between jumping out and airdodging is very real. Uair is usually quite stale though so sometimes it fails to snag the kill, but since Greninja jumps so high it's usually okay.
 

BlueTerrorist

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So I got 9th at NeoNebulous NYC #3 with Greninja as sub. My Greninja was on stream against Zee's Villager (Was using customs). I was Sonic until the Villager match when I cp'ed to Greninja and my Greninja held up well even though I lost.

I'm gonna focus more on Greninja as a primary for a good while. Hope to do you frogs proud as I go.
 

Oblivion129

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Lol what.

http://gfycat.com/DampIncompleteHypacrosaurus

I swear, the weirdest stuff happens in the Greninja/Kirby matchup.

edit: The best response I've seen to this gif so far was on the Minnesota Smash Facebook group: "In Soviet Russia, rock kicks you"
On activation, Kirby's rock has a hitbox surrounding it. Another fun fact is that you can penetrate his rock with a move that breaks shields, but Greninja doesn't have one.

What catches my attention is that sliding Utilt. I didn't know Perfect Pivoting had such a slide on Greninja's Utilt. Looks great.
 

Makani

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Check out my post in the Advanced Techniques thread, there's a better version of the Perfect Pivot going around. Seems like this newer version slides ever further.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
What's everyone's C-Stick set to? I just switched it to tilts from smash attacks to practice the new tech aMSa discovered and it's feeling much easier to control my character that way.
 

Marilink

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Tilts for me. Perfect Pivot Utilt is real nice. (And it's also very nice for that movement Amsa was doing. Which I have dubbed the Imperfect Pivot because I'm a dork.)
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Been getting sooo frustrated with smash lately... I like playing people better than me for experience; usually I can go 50/50 with them or at the very least 40/60, but these past few days I've only been winning like 30/70, which sucks too since I'm trying so hard to get good at this game. Anyone else have off days? Sometimes I feel like I'm better off just selling my entire setup since there's no hope... :/
 

Marilink

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^Honestly, my advice would be to take a break for a couple days. Play through another video game and take your mind off of Smash for a bit, then come back when you feel refreshed. Sometimes you can just go too hard, and when things start getting frustrating, it's best to step back and take things easy for a while!

I've definitely been there. It's a very common feeling; just take some time to clear your head, and then things will look up. Hope you feel better soon!
 

Xanj

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Newbie here, I've recently gotten my hands on a GCC-adapter, and I was wondering: How do you guys input aerials? Do you input them manually, or use the C-stick?
 

Kite0692

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Newbie here, I've recently gotten my hands on a GCC-adapter, and I was wondering: How do you guys input aerials? Do you input them manually, or use the C-stick?
It depends. I use both depending on the situation. But actually, the best setting for Greninja IMO would be setting ''attack'' for C-stick. That way you can buffer Uair out of a Up-Throw (If you don't set it to ''attack'', then an Usmash will come out instead of an Uair) and you can do tilts way easier. Just try to get used to do smashes manually.

Oh, by the way, I set ''L'' for ''jump'' so I can do OoS way easier. I recommend it 100%.

EDIT:

guys, on another note, I have read before somewhere that Greninja beats Diddy, how's that?
 
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Space thing

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Dec 29, 2008
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Ok, so I found out last week that there was this Greninja player that goes where I go (CMU weeklies), and is actually pretty good and placed 3rd. Two questions:

1. Is this one of you guys.
2. Why is there not a Greninja tournament result thread?
10 days late, but that sounds like me. Man on a ledge weeklies right?
 
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Coffee™

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Just here to share some random matchup knowledge.

Been messing around with the Greninja vs Rosaluma recently and there are some things I've found that make this matchup really annoying for Rosa.

The last hit of Greninja's Bair and Dash attack will always desync Luma, making it really easy to knock it off the stage. Spaced Bair on shield is safe so you can literally spam that until Luma gets hit. Also Ulthrow on Rosa generally gives Greninja enough time to get to Luma with DA so that's also something to bring to the matchup. I feel like for 3/4 of the matchup between these 2 Luma isn't even a factor.

Also, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks are the frog's best and worse matchups and why.
 

FullMoon

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Worst... I'd probably say Fox. Unlike Sheik he has no trouble killing us and he can be just as hard to get a hit on as Sheik.

Best? Probably one of the heavies. Maybe Ganondorf since even in spite of his huge power, Greninja runs circles around him and can very easily rack up damage against him. Plus Greninja is strong enough to KO him before rage can become too much of an issue and Ganondorf is super easy to gimp too. It's basically two characters that are all about reads going against each other, but one of them has a projectile, better recovery is faster and probably has better frame data as well. Can't bode well to Ganondorf. Though even then it's easy to underestimate him sometimes and get wrecked for your arrogance, like it has happened to me before.
 

Marilink

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I believe that Fox and Pikachu are our worst matchups. They just outmaneuver us, which is really obnoxious when usually our biggest strength is our mobility. They have safe options on our shield and safe Out of Shield options. Their grab games do a number on us, their dash attacks are fast and excellent, and they are both impossible to gimp.

I think our best matchups are against Fire Emblem characters. Marth/Lucina don't give us much trouble because their range and frame data is even worse than ours, coupled with inferior mobility. Ike is just so slow, so as long as you don't get read like a book, you should be able to dodge him and make his life difficult. Robin is tricky, but has a really hard time keeping Greninja out long enough to set up anything that great. All three of these characters are forced to recover low against us, which makes them prime for gimping and covering options.
 

FullMoon

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I believe that Fox and Pikachu are our worst matchups. They just outmaneuver us, which is really obnoxious when usually our biggest strength is our mobility. They have safe options on our shield and safe Out of Shield options. Their grab games do a number on us, their dash attacks are fast and excellent, and they are both impossible to gimp.
Funny that you say Pikachu when I think the overall consensus is that Greninja is probably Pikachu's second worst MU.

Also I don't think Ike loses to Greninja, it's probably even because of all those auto-canceling aerials with huge range he can spam.
 

Marilink

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The Pika boards think that Greninja is a bad matchup for them? Hmm. I'd love to see their reasoning behind that, because Pikachus run circles around me.

You're right in saying that Ike is the best of the 4 characters I mentioned, but I still think we have the edge in that matchup.
 
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Makani

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When I run into a well played Pikachu I feel it's more in their favor than Greninja's to be honest. Their aerials beat ours just about every time.
 

Oblivion129

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I personally have a harder time against Shulk, Fox, Falcon and Ness. I'd say vs Ike and Marth it's pretty even.
 

Shinobi1

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Oct 5, 2014
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Sometimes when I UP B under the ledge I hit the area under the ledge and fall to my death with out gaining another UP B, but I am still able to do other moves such as SIDE B. Also this isn't occurring because I needed to be closer to the ledge since I have had this happen to me many times even when I am almost right under it. Got any ideas on how to prevent this?

EDIT: I just had it happen to me when I am horizontally recovering with UP B. Greninja just hit the ledge and fell.
 
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Coffee™

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K. So I'm going to comment on a few of these matchups.

Worst... I'd probably say Fox. Unlike Sheik he has no trouble killing us and he can be just as hard to get a hit on as Sheik.
Fox has no trouble killing in terms of kill power however, Usmash is hard to land if you play safe. He also can't approach very well either. He generally doesn't have to which is what makes his b&p game so strong but he can't do that to Greninja as he'll just keep getting grabbed for it. He's also really susceptible to Usmash and Uair combos due to his fall speed.

Fox generally covers Greninja's landings and overextensions well though so it can be tedious in a sense, but played defensively with aggression on confirms makes it really hard for fox.

The Pika boards think that Greninja is a bad matchup for them? Hmm. I'd love to see their reasoning behind that, because Pikachus run circles around me.
In short, once Greninja stays grounded in the matchup it becomes hard for Pika to get safely. He also has issues with landing the kill for the same reason. Pika is also light so Greninja's moves can kill early if you secure a read. (Pika is hard to trap so keep that in mind). Uthrow is generally my go to for easy kills here since it's generally pretty easy to grab him.

At the moment I think Sonic and Shiek are his worst matchups. Sonic more so than Shiek.
 
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FullMoon

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Sonic is a really weird MU for me. I feel like I can't hit him at all most of the time since he just shields everything and his D-Air can have no lag upon landing. I've gone against a Sonic player who's currently 9th in Anther's Ladder and while I got 3 stocked once, I still managed to win a set both times we faced each other, though at least one of them was due to a SD. I feel more like there's something about the MU that I just don't get yet. The guy even said I had a scary Greninja so I guess I must be doing something right.

Sheik honestly doesn't feel too bad to me anymore. After getting some practice against them I learned how to get around them and take full advantage of her lack of kill power. If you'd ask me now I'd probably say the Sheik MU is just 55:45 in her favor. I currently struggle with Fox and Sonic a lot more than her.
 

Space thing

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I pretty much agree with @ Coffee™ Coffee™ about Fox. We can punish his mistakes pretty easily and I feel like we can deal with his crazy movement by just walking and being ready to Jab/tilt most of the time. It's still not an easy match-up, but I don't think it's a bad one.

I personally find myself having trouble with most projectile heavy characters like the links. I also find Mario and Luigi to be pretty annoying, but all of these are likely just my personally match-up issues rather Greninja's. I'm really not sure who Greninja is particularly good or bad against really.
 

Ludiloco

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I don't think your difficulty against the Mario Bros. is just you, they are very solid characters and give a lot of other characters trouble. Neither of them tend to struggle in most matchups. As with a lot of Greninja's matchups, they are annoying in neutral and a cakewalk in advantage.

Also: Those of you saying the Pikachu boards call Greninja a bad matchup might want to check the dates on the posts. I haven't seen Greninja talked about in a while but I saw some posts from October before the nerfs. Which makes sense.
 
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FullMoon

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There is a post by @SolidSense that explains why Greninja can be problematic for Pikachu pretty well.

Also Greninja beats Luigi 60:40, I even stopped by the Luigi boards once to give them advice for fighting Greninja since they looked like they could use something like that.
 

Coffee™

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Sonic is a really weird MU for me. I feel like I can't hit him at all most of the time since he just shields everything and his D-Air can have no lag upon landing. I've gone against a Sonic player who's currently 9th in Anther's Ladder and while I got 3 stocked once, I still managed to win a set both times we faced each other, though at least one of them was due to a SD. I feel more like there's something about the MU that I just don't get yet. The guy even said I had a scary Greninja so I guess I must be doing something right.
Sonic gets away with too much free pressure on Greninja's shield and Greninja's lack of lasting hitboxes don't exactly help ether as far as retaliating. Sonic is also able to break through Greninja's zoning really really easily. I honestly feel like this is a clear "worst" matchup for him at the moment.

Sheik honestly doesn't feel too bad to me anymore. After getting some practice against them I learned how to get around them and take full advantage of her lack of kill power. If you'd ask me now I'd probably say the Sheik MU is just 55:45 in her favor. I currently struggle with Fox and Sonic a lot more than her.
Honestly I Shiek's ability to kill is a bit understated. She has a decent amount of setups for killing and Greninja isn't exactly heavy. I need to play the matchup out some more but I'm just seeing defensive Shiek being a huge pain going forward. Greninja doesn't play the horizontal spacing game well with her.

I don't think your difficulty against the Mario Bros. is just you, they are very solid characters and give a lot of other characters trouble. Neither of them tend to struggle in most matchups. As with a lot of Greninja's matchups, they are annoying in neutral and a cakewalk in advantage.
Greninja beats both of them solidly.
 
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FullMoon

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Honestly I Shiek's ability to kill is a bit understated. She has a decent amount of setups for killing and Greninja isn't exactly heavy. I need to play the matchup out some more but I'm just seeing defensive Shiek being a huge pain going forward. Greninja doesn't play the horizontal spacing game well with her.
I'm going mainly from experience, I've faced some great Sheiks before and 80% of the time I would live past 140% unless they managed to gimp me or I was hit by a F-Smash at the edge.
 

Coffee™

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I'm going mainly from experience, I've faced some great Sheiks before and 80% of the time I would live past 140% unless they managed to gimp me or I was hit by a F-Smash at the edge.
It happens from time to time if the Shiek player just can't land the kill but as the game progresses people will start to apply the kill setups she has way more readily (and she has a lot). Shiek can net kills through the use of Bouncing Fish, Bair Uair and even Nair via various trap setups generally around the 100-150% on most characters.
 

Ekans647

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Sorry I haven't posted in the last while. I was busy dealing with my other characters. Could you guys catch me up with what I've missed? Anything cool relating to Greninja's metagame?
 
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BlueTerrorist

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Sup my fellow ninjas. I just got back from a tournament and got 3rd using Greninja as a primary. I can post a link soon. May also have vids later. Not a bad start in terms of maining Greninja for tourneys, still needs more polishing but Greninja is definitely improving at a fast rate.
 
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