Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Kace Mono]

Kinda sad to lose another AT.. I had only just started learning it

 

[bc1910]

I don't think we should be getting too used to cancelling hitstun with Shadow Sneak, I'm 100% sure it's gonna get patched eventually. Surprised it wasn't patched out with running SS, maybe the devs don't know about it? People do tend to keep quiet about it. I'd say it'll be gone as soon as they take note of it, though.

 

[Kite0692]

Is it only patched in the 3DS version, or is it in the Wii u also?

 

[Lavani]

Wii U didn't get a patch yet.

 

[Ekans647]

I think all ATs are going to be patched eventually, since they weren't intended. I do hope we get less cooldown so we won't have to commit as much. And 1.0.3 Hydro Pump. I want that back.

 

[mimgrim]

If you are gonna talk about bringing something back from pre-1.0.4 Greninja (not that I ever really played pre-1.0.4 Greninja anyway) it should be about less lag on Shuriken. :L

 

[Kite0692]

That's the only thing it's going to get patched, so calm down, it makes no sense to patch every AT, that's silly. Running SS was too damn good.

 

[Marilink]

Diddy's Uair is an auto-kill above 100%?

better nerf greninja

 

[MartinAW4]

That's the only thing it's going to get patched, so calm down, it makes no sense to patch every AT, that's silly. Running SS was too damn good.

Are you serious? I`ve literally never used running SS in a real match. The timing was too strict to be used reliably. It was basically our least important AT and we wouldn`t have even noticed it was removed if we weren`t actively searching for it.

SS hitstun cancelling on the other hand gives us a great niche that no other character has. And with the recent rise in popularity of Jab cancel combos, being able to escape them as well as most multi-hits in the game is a huge advantage. So I`m very glad that we get to keep this AT for a bit longer.

What I don`t understand though is why Sakurai has the need to focus on removing obscure glitches that noone uses in practice anyway like running SS instead of fixing the glitches that matter, like the horrible hitboxes on Uair which prevent the last hit from connecting on certain characters, or the hitboxes on Usmash that don`t correspond with the graphics ever since they got reduced.

It really does seem like Sakurai is biased against our favorite frog.

Diddy's Uair is an auto-kill above 100%?

better nerf greninja

Yeah, and Sheik`s Fair is too safe on shield, so we better add 10 frames of landing lag to Greninja`s Nair to balance it out.

 

[mimgrim]

So much salt.

 

[Sneak Frog]

Aw man, just when I was just getting back into the rhythm of playing the frog after not doing so for a while...

 

[Kite0692]

How the nuts do you deal with Yoshi? I really hate him so much

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Am starting to love the ability to upload replays. Just on my first search I caught a couple matches from some character board regulars.

Transferring them to those with recording devices is now possible, and assuming you've friended some other mains, it might be a good way to see some things in action. I like the potential this feature has.

*I hope --- doesn't mind that I quoted this.*

This sounds like it could potentially be very, very useful.

 

[MartinAW4]

So much salt.

Sakurai must like his frogs nice and salty. I didn`t know he was into french cuisine.

 

[FullMoon]

Sakurai must like his frogs nice and salty. I didn`t know he was into french cuisine.

Doesn't salt kill frogs?

 

[Spirst]

Doesn't salt kill frogs?

 

[FullMoon]

I totally called that someone was going to post that gif.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Doesn't salt kill frogs?

Well, salt would make the froggie's skin dry up very quickly, which would be very bad for the froggie, so...

Yeah, probably. Lots of salt would be bad. :c

 

[Mocha]

Chin up, ninja ribbits.

Sakurai may hate frogs, but we don't, and losing a Shadow Sneak AT or two isn't as bad as it could have been. We'll pull through this, and stay strong.

 

[Lavani]

yeah but now I'm going to skid to a halt every time I try to running sneak after water shuriken or fsmash because of muscle memory

im mad

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2vh6sw/after_apex_save_stranded_smasher/

Hope it's OK to post this here, but yeah, our Greninja brother needs help. D:

 

[AkashicSword]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2vh6sw/after_apex_save_stranded_smasher/

Hope it's OK to post this here, but yeah, our Greninja brother needs help. D:

I've hit my goal. Don't fret, thanks for the mention.

 

[Jaguar360]

How the nuts do you deal with Yoshi? I really hate him so much

Now I'm even more conflicted between my two favorite video game characters Thanks Kite.

As for dealing with him...yeah, this is a bad matchup for our ninja frog. Greninja has to play aggressively in this matchup, as he's faster on the ground and can pressure Yoshi especially since Yoshi's laggy grab is not ideal for punishing. Greninja loses in the air most of the time since Yoshi has a superior air speed and faster aerials. Yoshi is hard for Greninja to kill since he has above-average weight and is difficult to give thanks the the super armor on double jump combined with the distance he gets on it and Egg throw's coverage. Speaking of Egg throw, Yoshi has the superior projectile since it has less endlag, can be aimed and it has good enough hitstun to follow up with or at least gain advantage.

I would advise staying on the ground most of the time except for when you go for the occasional short hop f-air/n-air/b-air. Mix up with dash attacks and dash grabs to apply pressure on the ground and get some jab combos on him. That's the best I can tell you for right now. Even though I main both of these guys, it is still difficult to get a grasp on the matchup.

 

[Gunla]

I've hit my goal. Don't fret, thanks for the mention.

Still, good to see that you'll be able to get back safely.

 

[KERO]

Wow, so they removed running Shadow Sneak and holding shield during Shadow Sneak, the second one being fairly obscure I thought, and yet the ridiculousness of not being able to override regular landing lag with a Shadow Sneak (thus allowing the indefinite Shadow Sneak) wasn't fixed? That's extremely strange.... Seems like a pretty glaring oversight.

Also, just for fun, decided to see what ledge options Dtaunt can cover for each character. Sorry about the messy list formatting. Word was being weird and crashed on me right after I got about half the cast finished. Managed to get a picture of it at least, and I plan to clean up the format later, but just decided to go ahead and do this for every character:

Perhaps I'll also make a gallery of how to space Dtaunt as well against some characters (some are oddly specific, such as Mii Gunner medium and above where you basically have to be teetering on the ledge to hit him out of his get-up attack).

 

[Ekans647]

So I just discovered the glory of SHFF Nair. My movement is now flows like a river. Not to salty over the loss of Running Shadow Sneak. But it's got me thinking, what area one us a for for Shadow Sneak? Is there an guide for it? Also, is it Fthrow or Dthrow that combos into Shadow Sneak? Thanks!

 

[Marilink]

^Nothing combos into Shadow Sneak, but it is a great Dthrow mix-up. Basically, if you notice that your opponent is air dodging immediately after Uthrows, you can trick them into air dodging after Dthrows and then hit them right in the face with an SS.

Glad to see that you made it back, Akashic.

 

[AkashicSword]

Making it back. Not there yet. I'm good monetarily though.

 

[Kite0692]

Now I'm even more conflicted between my two favorite video game characters Thanks Kite.

As for dealing with him...yeah, this is a bad matchup for our ninja frog. Greninja has to play aggressively in this matchup, as he's faster on the ground and can pressure Yoshi especially since Yoshi's laggy grab is not ideal for punishing. Greninja loses in the air most of the time since Yoshi has a superior air speed and faster aerials. Yoshi is hard for Greninja to kill since he has above-average weight and is difficult to give thanks the the super armor on double jump combined with the distance he gets on it and Egg throw's coverage. Speaking of Egg throw, Yoshi has the superior projectile since it has less endlag, can be aimed and it has good enough hitstun to follow up with or at least gain advantage.

I would advise staying on the ground most of the time except for when you go for the occasional short hop f-air/n-air/b-air. Mix up with dash attacks and dash grabs to apply pressure on the ground and get some jab combos on him. That's the best I can tell you for right now. Even though I main both of these guys, it is still difficult to get a grasp on the matchup.

I don't know If I'm really bad in this MU or If It sucks so bad. Any other thing you want to add? I'd really appreciate it. The reason why I hate this MU is because he can do whatever he wants in the air and I just can't punish it. Can't juggle because he moves too fast in the air, in fact, he's so dumb he can activate the counter and make it miss. I'm really trying to deal with this guy X_X so, any other thing would help a lot.

Btw, this may sound silly, but how do you punish his Side B? It deals 9% everytime it hits, I feel so dumb everytime I got hit by that lol.

 

[FullMoon]

^Nothing combos into Shadow Sneak, but it is a great Dthrow mix-up. Basically, if you notice that your opponent is air dodging immediately after Uthrows, you can trick them into air dodging after Dthrows and then hit them right in the face with an SS.

Glad to see that you made it back, Akashic.

Actually Dair can combo into Shadow Sneak at certain %s. Good luck actually pulling it off though, the timing seems pretty strict.

And I see people are already making use of my Dthrow combo.

 

[Jaguar360]

I don't know If I'm really bad in this MU or If It sucks so bad. Any other thing you want to add? I'd really appreciate it. The reason why I hate this MU is because he can do whatever he wants in the air and I just can't punish it. Can't juggle because he moves too fast in the air, in fact, he's so dumb he can activate the counter and make it miss. I'm really trying to deal with this guy X_X so, any other thing would help a lot.

Btw, this may sound silly, but how do you punish his Side B? It deals 9% everytime it hits, I feel so dumb everytime I got hit by that lol.

Forgot to tell you to utilize onstage Hydro Pump in this matchup. It's great for movement in this matchup and the pushback allows it to punish Yoshi's double jump, slowing his descent and allowing for a good setup into a smash attack. It's a nice safe move to use onstage.

You can also try to use Substitute on his eggs when you're edgeguarding, but I'm not sure how effective this will be with Yoshi's air speed.

Running U-smash is also useful as an anti-air, though you obviously need to be careful with it because of the endlag.

That's all I have to add. Just make the most of your ground options and try to apply as much pressure against him as possible.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

lol...poor Greninja. I saw the update and just thought; "Jeez...come on Sakurai, don't take anger from the balance complaints out on Greninja..."

 

[FullMoon]

Folks, my capture card has arrived!... Sorta, it was sent to my dad's office so I have to wait until he gets back home. But soon I'll be able to record matches in 1080p!

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

^Nothing combos into Shadow Sneak, but it is a great Dthrow mix-up. Basically, if you notice that your opponent is air dodging immediately after Uthrows, you can trick them into air dodging after Dthrows and then hit them right in the face with an SS.

Glad to see that you made it back, Akashic.

I perfer the Dthrow into upsmash mix-up instead.

Folks, my capture card has arrived!... Sorta, it was sent to my dad's office so I have to wait until he gets back home. But soon I'll be able to record matches in 1080p!

Awesomeee. Can't wait to see some more from you!

 

[Deleted member]

Folks, my capture card has arrived!... Sorta, it was sent to my dad's office so I have to wait until he gets back home. But soon I'll be able to record matches in 1080p!

Nice! What's your YouTube channel link so I can subscribe?

Also if anyone wants to watch, aMSa's streaming here: http://www.twitch.tv/amsayoshi

The game has been out for awhile now, so who does everyone think has the best Greninja so far?

 

[PurpleBanana]

Chin up, ninja ribbits.

Sakurai may hate frogs, but we don't, and losing a Shadow Sneak AT or two isn't as bad as it could have been. We'll pull through this, and stay strong.

Watch the next patch be.

"Greninja can land a ss after a down throw if they air dodge? Better nerf all of his kill moves by another 10%"

 

[Kace Mono]

Whats this about a DThrow combo now?

 

[FullMoon]

Whats this about a DThrow combo now?

 

[Kace Mono]

Thanks, i hadnt seen this yet. Gonna work it into my routine. = D

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Nice! What's your YouTube channel link so I can subscribe?

Also if anyone wants to watch, aMSa's streaming here: http://www.twitch.tv/amsayoshi

The game has been out for awhile now, so who does everyone think has the best Greninja so far?

Darn. Looks like I missed it.

I'm thinking aMSa has the best Greninja right now.