Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[FullMoon]

That tech isn't exactly new, I've seen people doing a looong time ago.

I also both managed to destroy Olimar before and then proceed to lose to said Olimar twice. I guess he adapted to my playstile =P

 

[Mocha]

Found this over on the Pac-Man boards.

Since Substitute doesn't factor the power of the triggering hit and can be used to attack upwards unlike other counters, I can see this being a nice option to keep in mind for the matchup.

(if it isn't clear, idle Hydrant triggers Substitute)

-insert obligatory Hydrant being water-type benefit for Greninja here-

That's cool though, never thought about trying against the Hydrant. Ty o:

Just getting home after a big tourney (+100 entrants).

Got 9th. Greninja only.

Lost a set in pools vs a Fox player (who placed 7th). Lost in winners vs Diddy (the guy who won), and in losers vs Olimar (Guy placed 4th).

Learned some things:

- The Fox matchup (after losing 2-0 in pools, 5-1 in friendlies, and winning 4-1 today).
- Diddy is freakin' homo. I mean, its a winnable matchup, but damn it I have to train a lot for this one X_X
- Mario matchup is harder than I though. A really good mario bodied me in friendlies.
- Greninja definetly beats Olimar.. Just need to play more.

Oh btw. I really don't know how to deal with Diddy's banana. Any tips?

EDIT:

The new Fox tech is really annoying (the first and second jab thing).

Good stuff Kite!

I prefer dash attack to catch items with Greninja, but just watch your predictability of course. Sometimes even holding a banana in your hand can cause the Diddy player to start acting funny, so use that as an opportunity to punish them if they do anything silly. Vs Diddy you really have to be more slippery than usual to avoid his grabs :/

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

As for the jab tech with fox, would it be possible for us to shadow sneak out of it?

 

[Mocha]

So what's this I'm hearing about a patch update?

For the 3DS?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So what's this I'm hearing about a patch update?

For the 3DS?

The Amiibo patch update? Yeah, it's just what it says it is, nothing more...I think.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

The Amiibo patch update? Yeah, it's just what it says it is, nothing more...I think.

The .gifs in your signature continue to intensify.

 

[FullMoon]

It could also have removed some techniques though. I'm just worried they might have taken out our Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel. I have no way to test it right now.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

It could also have removed some techniques though. I'm just worried they might have taken out our Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel. I have no way to test it right now.

I hope not... Or else it'll feel like another punch to the gut.

 

[Deleted member]

pls no moar nerfs... ;-;

 

[FullMoon]

I'm not too certain on this but I think we lost Shadow Sneak while shielding. No matter what I try Greninja always drops the shield when I start using SS. I could be getting the timing wrong though.

Shadow Sneak out of shield, Platform Shadow Sneak, U-Air Spike and Hydro Bubble are all still in though.

 

[Lavani]

I'll look into shadow sneak ATs later

doing the rounds with several characters atm while juggling chores so it might be awhile

 

[FullMoon]

Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel is still in. The one time a Sheik CPU decided to rapid jab me I managed to Shadow Sneak out of it.

Delayed Shadow Sneak is still in as well. The only thing I'm not sure about is Shadow Sneak while shielding.

 

[Lavani]

son of a *****

running shadow sneak's gone

 

[Mocha]

son of a *****

running shadow sneak's gone

are you serious?
after all the time I spent practicing it today...

 

[FullMoon]

son of a *****

running shadow sneak's gone

Oh man, that's what I feared since I couldn't test it properly. Are you sure about that and that you just aren't missing the timing?

 

[Lavani]

The timing's completely free to get if you use the Hold L settings in training, it's definitely gone.

Lucario's Extremespeed hitstun cancel was patched too so I'm a little skeptical about SS hitstun cancel actually being intact, haven't gotten to that or shielding sneak yet

 

[FullMoon]

The timing's completely free to get if you use the Hold L settings in training, it's definitely gone.

Lucario's Extremespeed hitstun cancel was patched too so I'm a little skeptical about SS hitstun cancel actually being intact, haven't gotten to that or shielding sneak yet

SS Hitstun Cancel is still in, I tested it against Sheik's rapid jab and I managed to use it to escape and I could see the smoke from the attack come out a few times even when I wasn't able to fully escape it.

 

[Lavani]

If you can shadow sneak out of Ganondorf's flame choke before you hit the ground, that would be a better way to confirm it. Lots of jabs don't true combo (Marth can Counter out of some, Jiggs can rest in the middle of them, etc) so I'm a tad wary about that method.

 

[FullMoon]

If you can shadow sneak out of Ganondorf's flame choke before you hit the ground, that would be a better way to confirm it. Lots of jabs don't true combo (Marth can Counter out of some, Jiggs can rest in the middle of them, etc) so I'm a tad wary about that method.

I could try but the CPU is being very uncooperative right now.

 

[Lavani]

it's okay I got it already

SS hitstun cancel is safe still

 

[FullMoon]

Oh, okay. That's a relief.

R.I.P Running Shadow Sneak, we didn't even get to truly abuse you.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Posts from @ 13Bit , as in that guy that made that AT video for Greninja, seem to match up with what we've been hearing.

edit: uh oh, am I allowed to use pictures with curses in them?

 

[Mocha]

Platform shadow sneak still needs to be tested.
I saw your post @ FullMoon hope you're right that it's still in

Why does Sakurai hate frogs so much? ;-;

 

[FullMoon]

Platform shadow sneak still needs to be tested.

Why does Sakurai hate frogs so much? ;-;

Still in. I just tested it again and I could get it right once on one of the lower platforms in BF. Couldn't do it on the top one though it's probably because I'm bad at timing it.

 

[Lavani]

I think shield sneak is gone but I was never good at doing that to begin with

Other transition-related things were patched (like Palutena's Super Speed storage) so I'm inclined to think these were just general system changes that happened to remove ATs from us rather than Sakurai deliberately saying "**** frogs"

 

[13Bit]

Testing out some of Greninja's AT's

Platform shadow sneak is okay.
Shadow Sneaking out of a shield is still here.
Running Shadow Sneak is now dead R.I.P
Shadow Sneak whilst shielding appears to be gone, don't quote me on this.
Up Air spiking is still in.

Everything else is also good! I'll be sure to update if I find anything else but for now I must sleep.

Rest in pepperoni running shadow sneak.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Why does Sakurai hate frogs so much? ;-;

 

[FullMoon]

I wonder if there's just something about Shadow Sneak that makes removing it's hitstun cancelling properties impossible to do without breaking the move somehow. Seriously that tech is such a trooper to avoid the axe so well while other moves that could cancel hitstun lost that property.

Anyway, at least we can still enjoy Running Shadow Sneak on the Wii U for a while before it's inevitably cut in the Wii U update.

... Not that I could ever get the timing right on it, so at least the ATs removed don't affect me as much. It still sucks though.

 

[Lavani]

At this point I'm positive Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel is actually a feature. So many other moves have had it removed at this point, I see no reason that it wouldn't be gone for SS too if Sakurai didn't want it to be a thing.

 

[13Bit]

All I want is a world with blue frogs that can roam free without the fear of being ruined even further.

SAKURAI PLZ

Ah well, I don't think anyone even used running shadow sneak anyway, shield shadow sneak was more useful in my opinion so I'm kinda sad to see that it might also be gone. I also spend a lot of time playing online (because here in the UK there's like 3 or 4 smashers?) so the timing on these things was a nightmare.

 

[Lavani]

Running Sneak was useful because it let you use it as a combo tool, and it was nice for certain edgeguard situations like fsmashing your opponent across the stage and chasing. I'm honestly really sad that it's gone.

 

[Mocha]

All I want is a world with blue frogs that can roam free without the fear of being ruined even further.

SAKURAI PLZ

Ah well, I don't think anyone even used running shadow sneak anyway, shield shadow sneak was more useful in my opinion so I'm kinda sad to see that it might also be gone. I also spend a lot of time playing online (because here in the UK there's like 3 or 4 smashers?) so the timing on these things was a nightmare.

I was actually testing all the shadow sneak AT's today for the first time - it's just so ironic that this had to happen today. And I feel you about wifi lag. If you can pull any of that stuff off in a bad connection, major props to you, cause that stuff gets you on the road for multiple sanity breaks.

 

[Gunla]

Wait, did this say anything about balancing?

 

[FullMoon]

Running Shadow Sneak could've been a great tool once people learned how to do it consistently, but it's kinda something that's hard to pull off in the heat of the moment. I mean, the combo with Water Shuriken is really cool, but other than that it just feels like something that's hard to keep in mind while you're busy fighting.

It'll be certainly missed though, losing an option always sucks. I always forgot Shielding Shadow Sneak existed though, I could see uses for it but I never really remembered about it's existance.

 

[Gunla]

@ Spirst , can you update the thread?

I'm trying to download that patch now.

 

[Spirst]

@ Spirst , can you update the thread?

I'm trying to download that patch now.

You mean our AT thread? If so, just did it now. This sucks.

 

[Gunla]

It's not anywhere near as bad as other nerfs. Running SS was a stunt to pull off anyways, and we still got lots of stuff.

Right now, I'm trying to get on to see if there's actual balances or if it's just bugfixing/removing things that weren't intended.

 

[Lavani]

or if it's just bugfixing/removing things that weren't intended.

From what I've seen, it's that.

CPU AI and some other minor things I don't care about also changed. I guess if you have a New 3DS you can use amiibos now, for example.

If balance changes happened we'll see it in the data files, so I'm just waiting for Dantarion to dump stuff on that front.

 

[Gunla]

Another thing, apparently in addition to whenever Mewtwo is released, we'll get another amiibo patch in the summer for older 3DS systems.

 

[mimgrim]

Welp. Good thing I haven't put much time into Shadow Sneak. Been to busy working on Pump angles and getting myself to stop using Shadow Sneak instead of Pump by accident (don't understand why I seem to end up doing this a lot more with Greninja then any other character).