The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread (QA frame data added: 1/26/11)

Tagxy · Dec 25, 2010

Jabbing until someone trips is pretty legit. Its something Ive used in tournament, but its worth messing around with it in practice mode so you get a feel for it. I've used it against Prime too.

Also I know what the trip rate says, but I tend to get a trip within the first 4 jabs almost every time. Jabs 2 and 3 in particular tend to get the most trips for me.

KayLo! · Dec 25, 2010

Like I said, knockback and trajectory factor into it too.... so even though the trip rate says 10%, it could trip more/less than that at certain percents.

[FBC] ESAM · Dec 25, 2010

Yeah, I couldn't really get it. I would get 3 in a row and then mess up. Oh wellz.

PZ · Dec 27, 2010

Actually some trip animations can b seen therefore you could possibly stop jabbing than follow up with w/e.

_Kadaj_ · Dec 30, 2010

Edit nvm I see it

What exactly is shield disadvantage, is it the same as Shield Drop Adavantage?

rPSIvysaur · Dec 30, 2010

Shield Disadvantage is basically the inverse of Shield Advantage since Shield Advantage is almost always negative.

KayLo! · Dec 31, 2010

^

I prefer shield advantage since the negative number seems more intuitive. =X

_Kadaj_ · Dec 31, 2010

Mamachu knows

PZ · Dec 31, 2010

So shield advantage is the amount frames they have to do a certain move and shouldn't there be ps advantage or it really doesn't matter?

KayLo! · Dec 31, 2010

Time-wise, all pshielding does is eliminate shield drop frames.... so it's the same as jump/grab advantage.

Captain L · Jan 3, 2011

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11719892&postcount=249

Finished everybody and added a write-up about what the jab lock actually is so you can link it to the first post if you want.

Everybody except ganon that is.... and I'll do him tomorrow.

PZ · Jan 3, 2011

Captain L said:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11719892&postcount=249

Finished everybody and added a write-up about what the jab lock actually is so you can link it to the first post if you want.

Everybody except ganon that is.... and I'll do him tomorrow.

Very Nice work!

Flutter NiTE · Jan 3, 2011

Captain L said:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11719892&postcount=249

Finished everybody and added a write-up about what the jab lock actually is so you can link it to the first post if you want.

Everybody except ganon that is.... and I'll do him tomorrow.

Niiiiiiiice!!! good stuff brahh

KayLo! · Jan 3, 2011

Thanks, Captain L! I'll add that and Prime's QA data to the OP sometime soon.

Masky · Jan 20, 2011

..........

[FBC] ESAM · Jan 20, 2011

You did it at Seibrik's, I did it at home.

KayLo! · Jan 26, 2011

Quick Attack Frame Data

Courtesy of Prime + a little additional testing, here's detailed frame data for QA. I'll add it to the OP..... eventually. =X

* RCO (Recovery Carryover): Once RCO activates, you will get extra lag on your next landing from a jump or aerial. (See OP for specific numbers.)
* QAC Frame: If you're near the ground during this frame, cooldown and freefall are canceled and you're free in the air. You will get RCO lag on your next landing. Note that you can buffer QAC jumps/aerials.
* Cooldown: During these frames, Pika cannot fastfall and can only grab the ledge if he's facing it. If you land during cooldown frames, you will suffer 30 frames of landing lag.
* Freefall: Pika can now fastfall and grab the ledge facing either way. He will suffer RCO lag when he lands.

Quick Attack (part 1 only)
1-13: Startup
14: Startup / QA1 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 14 only; therefore, you may switch directions during startup.
15: Hitbox
16-18: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
19: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed / first frame able to input QAC actions
20: Ledge grab allowed / RCO activated
21: -
22-24: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
25: -
26: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
27: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal long)
28: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
29: Last frame able to input QAC actions
30: Cooldown / QAC frame
31-70: Cooldown
71: Freefall begins

Quick Attack (parts 1 + 2)
1-13: Startup
14: Startup / QA1 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 14 only; therefore, you may switch directions during startup.
15: Hitbox
16-19: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
20: Ledge grab allowed / RCO activated
21: -
22-24: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
25: -
26: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
27: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal long)
28: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
29: QA2 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 29 only; therefore, you may switch directions until then.
30: Hitbox
31-33: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
34: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed / first frame able to input QAC actions
35: Ledge grab allowed
36: -
37-39: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
40: -
41: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
42: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
43: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
44: Last frame able to input QAC actions
45: Cooldown / QAC frame
46-85: Cooldown
86: Freefall begins

[FBC] ESAM · Jan 26, 2011

D-throwing at ledge (Like agaisnt wario on platforms)

On platforms, works on Wario (All the time) Olimar, Squirtle and Ivysaur (Some of the times).

You can also CG MK on the edges of stages from 16-79%, then get another D-throw u-smash bringing them to...98? Hopefully posting here will make prime post the numbers he did.

Leaf. · Jan 26, 2011

That happens JUST from them being over the edge of the stage?

Pikabunz · Jan 26, 2011

That's with Pika being on the edge facing towards the stage.

Leaf. · Jan 27, 2011

Oh. Damn.

Nice frame data guys.

KayLo! · Jan 27, 2011

I finally finished this. x.x

Nothing big, just a video of Pika's hitbubbles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX2eeVeclB4

Thunder's pretty cool-looking! & slo-mo fsmash too cute.

global-wolf · Jan 27, 2011

Wow, thanks KayLo and Prime! And slo-mo Pika is adorable.:3

Stealth Raptor · Jan 27, 2011

thank you kaylo :D you confirmed my hypothesis on what the hitbox of thunder was <333

[FBC] ESAM · Jan 27, 2011

Damn...but that doesn't explain why the end of thunder has like 5 hitboxes if it doesn't hit Pikachu.

Stealth Raptor · Jan 27, 2011

well it shows that there are multiple hitboxes within thunder itself. now why sometimes only one of them hits and sometimes it hits multiple times is beyond me. perhaps staleness has sort of effect? i really want to see what the thunder hitbox looks like when it hits the ground without pikachu, and what it looks like when the bolt touches someone without pikachu being there. and if there is anyway we can recreate the multi hit thunder with hitboxes active it could be very revealing in how it works

[FBC] ESAM · Jan 27, 2011

But it is only at the end that it happens...it is really weird.

Stealth Raptor · Jan 27, 2011

i know! one of the most common circumstances where it has happened for me was when i like used thunder and someone dash attacked me out of it before the thunder hit, and they preceded to get hit by multiple thunders. also i seemed to get semi frequent double hits when i had a tall character sit underneath a platform of battlefield and jumped into it. i could never devine a real set of circumstances or causes that made it happen

KayLo! · Jan 27, 2011

Stealth Raptor said:
i really want to see what the thunder hitbox looks like when it hits the ground without pikachu, and what it looks like when the bolt touches someone without pikachu being there. and if there is anyway we can recreate the multi hit thunder with hitboxes active it could be very revealing in how it works

I can get vids of that -- esp thunder hitting the ground, which I should've added to the original video.

Argh.

Idk if it'll look 100% accurate since the hitbubble .pac doesn't always interact correctly with hurtboxes (iirc), but it should give some sort of idea of what might be going on.

Also, electric moves are just weird. Even with Zelda..... they just do weird, unexplainable things sometimes.

Leaf. · Jan 27, 2011

Would getting QA hitbubble data do anything for it? I kinda just wanna see it.

KayLo! · Jan 27, 2011

I asked Bio a while ago, but the .pac he gave me didn't work, and I sure as hell dunno how to do visible hitbubble stuff. I can ask the Lab again if y'all want me to request it.

KayLo! · Jan 28, 2011

I managed to get a video of the thunder stuff you wanted Stealth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__AnAdTwzys

The most I got was 3 hits tho.... couldn't get all 4, and I could only get it to work consistently on BF with some platform help. I got 2 hits on Lucario out of a lock too, but I didn't manage to record it. ><

Honestly, idk why sometimes people get hit more than once and sometimes they don't. If you watch ZSS getting hit by a normal T1, you can see that she still passes through more thunder hitboxes.... but she doesn't get hit again. But in the multihit instances, for some reason the other hitboxes add more damage.

In other tests, I purposely SDI'd back into the thunder, and it still didn't consistently hit more than once. So I don't think it's a matter of DI or anything. Just a weird glitch I guess. *shrug*

Stealth Raptor · Jan 28, 2011

yeah i suspected DI early on, but that didnt really make sense. thanks for doing that kaylo :D very interesting to see. like most moves, once one of the hitboxes hits it flags the rest of the set of hitboxes so that they dont hit the opponent, so you dont get three hits from a pika fsmash for instance. but sometimes it hits multiple times and i could never figure out a cause OTHER THEN it always happens where the thunder hits the ground

Laem · Feb 17, 2011

so the thunderbolt coming down on pika (i presume this would be the "shockwave") has only 5 frames of cooldown?

KayLo! · Feb 17, 2011

Yeah. It's not as laggy on the end as people usually think.

Stealth Raptor · Feb 17, 2011

yeah its a great frame trap on lesser opponents, anyone good can punish thunder no sweat though

Pikabunz · Mar 15, 2011

Testing!!!

{colsp=6}

Pikachu
| Hitbox | FAF | Base Damage | Shield Advantage | Notes
Jab | 2-3 | 22 | 2 | -12 | 10% Trip Rate. Rapid Jab hits every 5 frames.
Dash Attack | 5-16 |50 | 7 | -35 | ---
Ftilt | 5-10 | 30 | 10/9/8 | -14 | Can be angled. Does more damage the higher the angle.
Utilt | 7-13 | 24 | 7/6/5 | -7/-7/-8 | Does more damage closer to Pika.
Dtilt | 7-9 | 19 | 7 | -2 | 30% Trip Rate
Fsmash | 15-22 | 50 | 20/17/14 | -26 | Electric . Does more damage closer to Pika.
Usmash | 9-16 | 44 | 14/13 | -22/-23 | Does more damage closer to Pika.
Dsmash | 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19, 21-22, 24 | 55 | 2+2+2+2+2+2+3 | -25 | Electric. 30% Trip Rate (last hit). Hits 7 times.

rPSIvysaur · Mar 15, 2011

Sexy table man.

Stealth Raptor · Mar 15, 2011

needs more table

rPSIvysaur · Mar 15, 2011

A table inside a table. Inception.

The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread (QA frame data added: 1/26/11)

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