The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread (QA frame data added: 1/26/11)

[KayLo!]

The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread​

​

( Currently under heavy construction. )

This thread is for researching and discussing the technical aspects of Pikachu. If you have any ideas about techniques or would like to request for something to be tested, feel free to ask or contribute!

Credit goes to K Prime, ESAM, Tag, Scissors Sir, and others who have researched, pulled frame data, and helped to further develop Pika's metagame.

[COLLAPSE=Current Projects & Requests]- Complete Frame Data (KayLo!/K Prime)
- Shield Pokes (KayLo!/Smash Lab)[/COLLAPSE]

TABLE OF CONTENTS
( To skip to a section, Ctrl + F and search for its 4-letter code. )
Section 1: Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]

1.1 Ground Moves [GRND]
1.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]
1.3 Specials [SPCL]
1.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]
1.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]
1.6 Item Moves [ITMM]​

Section 2: Chaingrabs [CHGB]

2.1 Fthrow CGs [FTHW]
2.2 Buffered Dthrow CGs [DTHW]​

Section 3: Quick Attack Shenanigans [QSHN]

3.1 QA Overview [QAOV]
3.2 Quick Attack Cancel (QAC) [CNCL]
3.3 Quick Attack Lock (QAL) [QLCK]
3.4 Quick Attack Ledge Tricks [QLDG]
3.5 Recovery Carryover Lag (RCO) [RCVL]​

Section 4: Techniques [TCHN]

4.1 Jab Lock [JBLK]
4.2 Uair > Footstool [FTSL]
4.3 Dthrow > Buffer Dash > Uair [DBFU]
4.4 Pikasliding [PKSL]
4.5 Glide Toss Breakdown [GLDT]
4.6 Banana-Footstool Lock [BNFL]
4.7 Cross Thunder [CRST]
4.8 Lightning Lockdown [LTLK]​

Section 5: Miscellaneous Data [MSCL]

5.1 Base Knockback and Knockback Growth [BSKN]
5.2 Dtilt Hitstun Advantage (incomplete) [DTLT]​

Section 1: Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]

*Visible Hitbubble Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255734

Hitbox Active: Frames during which an attack's hitboxes are active.
FAF (First Actionable Frame): First frame on which you can perform another move.
Invincibility: Frames during which Pikachu will take no damage.
Fresh Damage: Fresh damage values for each hit.
Trip Rate: Chance, by percent, for a move to trip. Will only be noted for values higher than 0.
Landing Lag: Aerials only. Number of frames Pikachu lags when he hits the ground during a move.
RCO (Recovery Carryover): In certain situations, some characters carry over lag from their up B and suffer extra lag the next time they land normally or with an aerial.
Autocancel: Aerials only. Frames during which Pikachu can land without an aerial move's landing lag. (He will instead suffer normal jump landing lag.)
Advantage on Block: Frame difference between Pikachu's FAF and the opponent's. Counted from first hit frame per damage value.​

1.1 Ground Moves [GRND]

Spoiler

Jab
Hitbox Active: 2-3 (rapid jab hits every 5th frame starting from 2)
FAF: 22 (single jab)
Fresh Damage: 2.1
Trip Rate: 10%
Advantage on Block: -12 (normal shield drop) / -19 (jump/grab OOS)

Dash Attack
Hitbox Active: 5-16
FAF: 50
Fresh Damage: 7.35
Advantage on Block: -35 (normal shield drop) / -42 (jump/grab OOS)

Ftilt (all angles)
Hitbox Active: 5-10
FAF: 30
Fresh Damage: 10.5 (up-angled) / 9.45 (unangled) / 8.4 (down-angled)
Advantage on Block: -14 (normal shield drop) / -21 (jump/grab OOS) (all angles)

Utilt
Hitbox Active: 7-13
FAF: 24
Fresh Damage: 7.35/6.3/5.25 (more damage closer to Pika)
Advantage on Block: -7/-7/-8 (normal shield drop) / -14/-14/-15 (jump/grab OOS)

Dtilt
Hitbox Active: 7-9
FAF: 19
Fresh Damage: 7.35
Trip Rate: 30%
Advantage on Block: -2 (normal shield drop) / -9 (jump/grab OOS)

Fsmash
Hitbox Active: 15-22
From Charge, Hits On: 2
FAF: 50
Fresh Damage: 21 (frames 15-17), 17.85 (frames 18-20), 14.7 (frames 21-22) (hitbubbles extend on frames 18 and 21)
Advantage on Block: -26, -24, -21 (normal shield drop) / -33, -31, -28 (jump/grab OOS)

Usmash
Hitbox Active: 9-16
From Charge, Hits On: 5
FAF: 44
Fresh Damage: 14.7/13.65 (frames 9-10) (more damage closer to Pika), 11.55 (frames 11-12), 7.35 (frames 13-16)
Advantage on Block: -22/-23, -21, -21 (normal shield drop) / -29/-30, -28, -28 (jump/grab OOS)

Dsmash
Hitbox Active: 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19, 21-22, 24 (7 hits)
From Charge, Hits On: 2
FAF: 55
Fresh Damage: 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 3.15
Trip Rate: 30% (last hit only)
Advantage on Block: -44, -41, -38, -35, -32, -29, -25 (normal shield drop) / -51, -48, -45, -42, -39, -36, -32 (jump/grab OOS)

Standing Grab
Hitbox Active: 6-7
FAF: 30

Dash Grab
Hitbox Active: 9-10
FAF: 39

Pivot Grab
Hitbox Active: 10-11
FAF: 36

Grab Pummel
Hitbox Active: 3
Fresh Damage: 2.1

Shield
Active On: 1
Shield Drop: 7 frames

Spotdodge
Invincibility: 2-20
Total Duration: 22 frames

Forward/Backward Roll
Invincibility: 4-19
Total Duration: 31 frames

Taunts
Up Taunt FAF: 90
Side Taunt FAF: 81
Down Taunt FAF: 90​

1.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]

Spoiler

Nair
Hitbox Active: 3-25
FAF: 40
Fresh Damage: 12.6 (frames 3-5), 6.3 (frames 6-25)
Landing Lag: 25 frames
RCO Landing Lag: 34 frames
Autocancel: 35-39
Advantage on Block: -25, -24 (normal shield drop) / -32, -31 (jump/grab OOS) (does not include landing lag)

Fair
Hitbox Active: 10-12, 14-16, 18-20, 22-24, 26 (5 hits)
FAF: 40
Fresh Damage: 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 2.1, 3.15
Landing Lag: 15 frames
RCO Landing Lag: 21 frames
Autocancel: 1-9, 35-39
Advantage on Block: -23, -19, -15, -11, -5 (normal shield drop) / -30, -26, -22, -18, -12 (jump/grab OOS) (does not include landing lag)

Bair
Hitbox Active: 4-5, 8-9, 12-13, 16-17, 20-21, 24-25, 28-29, 32-37 (8 hits)
Landing Hitbox: 2 frames
FAF: 60
Fresh Damage: 1.05, 1.05, 1.05, 1.05, 1.05, 1.05, 1.05, 4.2 (aerial hits) / 4.2 (landing hit)
Landing Lag: 30
RCO Landing Lag: 41
Autocancel: 1-3, 50-59
Advantage on Block (aerial hits): -48, -44, -40, -36, -32, -28, -24, -19 (normal shield drop) / -55, -51, -47, -43, -39, -35, -31, -26 (jump/grab OOS) (does not include landing lag)
Advantage on Block (landing hit): -21 (normal shield drop) / -28 (jump/grab OOS)

Uair
Hitbox Active: 3-8
FAF: 28
Fresh Damage: 6.3/5.25 (frames 3-4), 5.25/4.2 (frames 5-8) (more damage closer to Pika)
Landing Lag: 24
RCO Landing Lag: 33
Autocancel: 1-2, 18-27
Advantage on Block: -15/-16, -14 (normal shield drop) / -22/-23, -21 (jump/grab OOS) (does not include landing lag)

Dair
Hitbox Active: 14-26
Landing Hitbox: 2 frames
FAF: 48
Fresh Damage: 12.6 (aerial hit) / 4.2 (landing hit)
Landing Lag: 40
RCO Landing Lag: 55
Autocancel: 39-47
Advantage on Block (aerial hit): -27 (normal shield drop) / -34 (jump/grab OOS) (does not include landing lag)
Advantage on Block (landing hit): -34 (normal shield drop) / -41 (jump/grab OOS)

Jump
Jump Squat Duration: 4 frames (to short hop, hold jump for 4 or less frames; to full hop, hold jump for 5 or more frames)
Note: Jump squat frames can be canceled into a usmash or an up b.

Short Hop Air Time: 40 frames
Full Hop Air Time: 60 frames

Soft Landing: 2 frames
Hard Landing: 4 frames
Soft RCO Landing: 15 frames
Hard RCO Landing: 24 frames

Airdodge
Invincibility: 4-29
Total Duration: 49 frames​

1.3 Specials [SPCL]

Spoiler

Thunder Jolt
Jolt Released On: 19
FAF: 59
Ground Jolt Duration: 100 frames
Air Jolt Duration: 99 frames*
*Note: When an air jolt hits the ground, it becomes a ground jolt and will last 100 frames from that point.
Fresh Damage: 6.3 (ground jolt) / 9.45 (air jolt)

Skull Bash
Hitbox Active: 18-? (no charge)
FAF: 91 (no charge)
Fresh Damage: 7.35 (no charge) - 26.25 (maximum charge)
Advantage on Block: ?

Quick Attack
Hitbox Active: 15-19 (QA1), 30-34 (QA2)
Fresh Damage: 3.15, 2.1
Advantage on Block: ?

Thunder
Hitbox Active: 15-74 (bolt) / 43-74 (shockwave)
FAF: 79 (thunder hits Pika) / 88 (thunder misses Pika)
Invincibility: 43-50 (shockwave only)
Fresh Damage: 10.5 (bolt) / 17.85 (shockwave)
Advantage on Block (shockwave): ?​

1.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]

Spoiler

Ledge Grab
Invincibility: 1-34 (invincibility can carry over into ledge drop actions)
FAF: 12 (for ledge attack, roll, or jump) / 14 (for ledge drop or climb)
Note: Pikachu must wait at least 30 frames after releasing the ledge before he can re-grab it.

Ledge Attack <100%
Hitbox Active: 22-24
FAF: 54
Invincibility: 1-20
Fresh Damage: 8.4
Advantage on Block: -21 (normal shield drop) / -28 (jump/grab OOS)

Ledge Attack >100%
Hitbox Active: 55-59
FAF: 70
Invincibility: 1-59
Fresh Damage: 10.5
Advantage on Block: -4 (normal shield drop) / -11 (jump/grab OOS)

Ledge Climb <100%
Invincibility: 1-30
FAF: 33

Ledge Climb >100%
Invincibility: 1-56
FAF: 60

Ledge Roll <100%
Invincibility: 1-24
FAF: 50

Ledge Roll >100%
Invincibility: 1-60
FAF: 80

Ledge Jump <100%
Invincibility: 1-15
FAF: 16

Ledge Jump >100%
Invincibility: 1-26
FAF: 27​

1.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]

Spoiler

Tech
Invincibility: 1-21
FAF: 27

Tech Roll Forward
Invincibility:
FAF: 42
Roll Length: 35.99 (units unknown)

Tech Roll Backward
Invincibility:
FAF: 42
Roll Length: 32.41 (units unknown)

Flop
FAF: 27

Stand (Back/Stomach)
Invincibility: 1-22
FAF: 30

Get Up Attack (Back)
Hitbox Active: 13-14, 18-19 (2 hits)
FAF: 50
Invincibility: 1-19
Fresh Damage: 6.3, 6.3
Advantage on Block: -27, -22 (normal shield drop) / -34, -29 (jump/grab OOS)

Get Up Attack (Stomach)
Hitbox Active: 17-18, 23-24 (2 hits)
FAF: 51
Invincibility: 1-24
Fresh Damage: 6.3, 6.3
Advantage on Block: -24, -18 (normal shield drop) / -31, -25 (jump/grab OOS)

Get Up Roll Forward (Back)
Invincibility: 1-14
FAF: 36

Get Up Roll Forward (Stomach)
Invincibility: 1-19
FAF: 37

Get Up Roll Backward (Back/Stomach)
Invincibility: 1-19
FAF: 36

Dash Trip
Duration:

Pivot Trip
Duration:

Forced Trip
Duration:

Trip Stand
Invincibility: 1-17
FAF: 22

Trip Get Up Attack
Hitbox Active: 19-20, 31-32 (2 hits)
FAF: 50
Invincibility: 1-8
Fresh Damage: 5.25, 5.25
Advantage on Block: -22, -10 (normal shield drop) / -29, -17 (jump/grab OOS)

Trip Roll Forward/Backward
Invincibility: 1-10
FAF: 29​

1.6 Item Moves [ITMM]

Spoiler

Item Pick Up/Drop
Pick Up On: 7
Drop On: 1

Forward Toss (Ground)
Item Thrown On: 12
FAF: 29

Back Toss (Ground)
Item Thrown On: 14
FAF: 29

Up Toss (Ground)
Item Thrown On: 15
FAF: 29

Down Toss (Ground)
Item Thrown On: 8
FAF: 22

Dash Toss
Item Thrown On: 5
FAF: 39

Forward Toss (Air)
Item Thrown On: 10
FAF: 30

Back Toss (Air)
Item Thrown On: 14
FAF: 30

Up Toss (Air)
Item Thrown On: 14
FAF: 30

Down Toss (Air)
Item Thrown On: 8
FAF: 22​

Section 2: Chaingrabs [CHGB]

2.1 Fthrow CGs [FTHW]

Original thread: Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

2.2 Buffered Dthrow CGs [DTHW]

Original thread: Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread
Original thread: How to Buffer Dthrow Chaingrab - In Detail!

Section 3: Quick Attack Shenanigans [QSHN]

3.1 QA Overview [QAOV]

Quick Attack (part 1 only)
1-13: Startup
14: Startup / QA1 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 14 only; therefore, you may switch directions during startup.
15: Hitbox
16-18: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
19: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed / first frame able to input QAC actions
20: Ledge grab allowed / RCO activated
21: -
22-24: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
25: -
26: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
27: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal long)
28: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
29: Last frame able to input QAC actions
30: Cooldown / QAC frame
31-70: Cooldown
71: Freefall begins

Quick Attack (parts 1 + 2)
1-13: Startup
14: Startup / QA1 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 14 only; therefore, you may switch directions during startup.
15: Hitbox
16-19: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
20: Ledge grab allowed / RCO activated
21: -
22-24: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
25: -
26: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
27: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal long)
28: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
29: QA2 direction input*
*Note: Control stick position is read on frame 29 only; therefore, you may switch directions until then.
30: Hitbox
31-33: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed
34: Hitbox / ledge grab allowed / first frame able to input QAC actions
35: Ledge grab allowed
36: -
37-39: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
40: -
41: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
42: Hurtbox stretched (vertical long)
43: Hurtbox stretched (horizontal small)
44: Last frame able to input QAC actions
45: Cooldown / QAC frame
46-85: Cooldown
86: Freefall begins

Original thread: Quick Attack Item Techs

3.2 Quick Attack Cancel (QAC) [CNCL]

Original thread: QAC > Nair is a true combo

3.3 Quick Attack Lock (QAL) [QLCK]

3.4 Quick Attack Ledge Tricks [QLDG]

Original thread: Quick Attack Ledge Cancels

3.5 Recovery Carryover Lag (RCO) [RCVL]

Section 4: Techniques [TCHN]

4.1 Jab Lock [JBLK]

4.2 Uair > Footstool [FTSL]

Original thread: Uair > Footstool > QAL Potential Death Combo

4.3 Dthrow > Buffer Dash > Uair [DBFU]

Original thread: Dthrow Buffer Run Uair

4.4 Pikasliding [PKSL]

Original thread: Pikasliding: An In-Depth Look

4.5 Glide Toss Breakdown [GLDT]

Glide tossing is a technique that allows you to slide a noticeable distance as you throw an item. Though Pikachu can't spawn any items of his own, it can be useful in matchups where the other character can (Diddy, Peach, etc.).

How to perform:

- Input roll in the direction you want to slide; then,
- Input item toss in any direction on the appropriate frame

Throwing the item on frame 1 of Pikachu's roll results in a super glide toss (a little less than half the length of FD).
Throwing the item on frames 2-4 of Pikachu's roll results in a short glide toss.​

The result:

Pikachu will slide while throwing the item.​

Because you can vary both the direction you slide and the direction you throw the item, glide tossing is useful as a mixup and as a way to string into other moves from an item throw.

4.6 Banana-Footstool Lock [BNFL]

Original thread: Infinite on Diddy Kong

4.7 Cross Thunder [CRST]

Every now and then, something odd happens whenever I try to do a narrow thunder wall (short distance between T1 and Pika's body). This postwas rushed out of excitement and is far from a tutorial.

Anyways, we have what we have: a temporary fusion of T1 (Thunder 1 - the "rod" > vertical hitstun) and T2 (Thunder 2 - the explosion from rod hitting 'Chu > OUCH hitstun).

Personal Observations thus far:
1. Two different heights
2. High one can be done on either side of T1. However, observed instances thus far have Pikachu facing opposite direction of where he is facing during the jump. *still testing > Does the reversal of Pikachu's sprite affect the distance and hitbox requirement for the passing of T1 and the explosion of T2 at the same time?
3. Low one is MUCH lower with pikachu exploding near the TOP of the lightning rod next to the stage.

*Still testing: effects of stages, slants, and walls, different reversals, short/full/double/QAC hop, and its applications in aerial play, edgeguarding, and offstage "Wall with Pain" (LITERALLY).

This beta vid is going to be my first video on this topic. I would appreciate any help or would like to help anyone else who have also discovered this. Responses would be cool too! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCZJeaCdoFM

4.8 Lightning Lockdown [LTLK]

Original post: Lightning Lockdown

Section 5: Miscellaneous Data [MSCL]

5.1 Base Knockback and Knockback Growth [BSKN]

Original post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8328549&postcount=44

5.2 Dtilt Hitstun Advantage (incomplete) [DTLT]

Original post: Dtilt hit stun (incomplete)

 

[KayLo!]

Reserved just in case.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

QaC from stage to ledge edgehog.

- Can pika make it without getting stage spiked by dolphin slice? (pika's spritebox>QaC> sweetspot matched up against Marth's up-b sweetspot range)
- Exact spacing for QaC > non-freefalling fall (if in the event the opponent sweetspots first during the attempted edgehog, pika doesn't die like a newb). Can the spacing be acheived with a double jump t-jolt (to zone the edge) > QaC edgehog?
- The frame advantage from opponents sweetspotting invincibility to QaC edge-cancel-dropoff > jump > u-air(or other aerial). Why? I wanna kno if (when executed perfectly) pika can deal free damage--without getting swatted by an opponent's (i.e. Marth's) d-air or something--to a sweetspotted opponent if pika misses the QaC edgehog . At the very least, the frame advantage info for that situation to pika's u-air and n-air will be particularly helpful for those who are more daring in gimping.

-Pikachu's DAC u-smash while picking up an item on the ground (can pika REALLY kick diddy in the face if diddy attempts to grab the floored banana but you get there first?)

-What projectiles can pika's dash attack overpowers/cancels (for almost no lag--i.e. against samus, dash attack a missle canceled missile > both missile and dash attack cancel > immediate shield or d-smash?). Heck, if the Yoshi's have a chart of all the projectiles that can be cancelled with their dash attack/n-air/jab, then we can research pika's projectile cancelling options if we have nothing else to research. I find this info particularly useful against my brother's boomerangs and arrows (he plays TL, Arc-TheFallen-). Another more useful move to research is QaC in cancelling projectiles (i have canceled my bro's 'rangs and aerial arrows before).

-I have seen Aftershock thunder work not only on the ground and platforms but also on pikachu in the air after thunder 2... or am I mistaken? Can we 'Aftershock and opponent' after thunder 2 if we space it right? We know it refreshes (Stealth's thunair), but can it do Aftershock 30+ damage with good spacing (and probably an airdodging, stupid-DI'ing, recovering opponent)?

-*more like asking a favor than something practical to research* I posted WAY back long ago about pika doing a solo cross thunder offstage edgeguard. It still to this day remains pretty hard to do for me. Even if the move is useless in practicality, could some of you testers send me the numbers, stats, frames, or results of exactly how the move does or does not work--of course if any of you are have time and are willing to test/research. I'll be HAPPY to provide the results of my testings so far to you guys if it saves any trouble.

Hope that provides some hours of research material. If there is anything i can do to help just pm me.

Peace.

 

[KayLo!]

I can start on range next week. I've been thinking about a few ways I might be able to test it, one of which may include finding someone who can make me a custom stage texture.............

 

[Metatitan]

I could only find two pictures of anything that could be say a researching pikachu (I looked up just about everything on DA, from doctor pikachu to scientist pikachu). These unfortunately were the best two that I could find

 

[SuSa]

"-Knockback and growth rates"

I can do that using Project SA.

 

[KayLo!]

I like the first picture better. <3

 

[SilverSpark]

I have a few...

1) The vertical range of Pika's grab
2) Range of D-air: both animations
3) Aftershock
- How close you have to be to the lightning to get combo'd
- Max number of times some characters will get combo'd by it
- Characters more likely to get hit by it on stages with platforms like LC and BF
4) Dash Attack's hax range when you run and dash attack by the edge and it hits someone hugging the wall under you
5) Down-taunt.

 

[Pikabunz]

"-Knockback and growth rates"

I can do that using Project SA.

What's Project SA?

I'm going to use that first pika picture, but I think we can find a better one.

 

[KuroKitt10]

I'm willing to help out where needed - though I'm not really that experienced in testing this sort of thing (nor that good at the game >.>).

I suppose what I'm saying is - I'm volunteering myself as a humble servant to anyone who may need some aid in this =) I follow orders very well ^^

Mew.

 

[ElPared]

not sure where I should post this but it seems like something that needs to be researched in order to be confirmed.

I found out that on Luigi's Mansion you can do an Uthrow on the lower part, near the pillars where it's solid, and then lock them with an Utilt Similar to the Dtilt lock against walls. it was infinite when I did it, but I did it vs a lvl 9 computer so it could be that it can be tech'd or DI'd out of.

of course this could already be known, I didnt search thoroughly really (Just searched "Luigi's Mansion" in Pika forum and looked for a mention of the lock), but it isnt in the Pika tricks tread and I figured that if it works it can really improve Pika's matchup on Luigi's Mansion, especially since its easy to set up and hard to punish. I would research this myself but I lack the spiffy frame by frame testing tech that some of you guys have out there. Not to mention I haven't really got anyone to test with

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

not sure where I should post this but it seems like something that needs to be researched in order to be confirmed.

I found out that on Luigi's Mansion you can do an Uthrow on the lower part, near the pillars where it's solid, and then lock them with an Utilt Similar to the Dtilt lock against walls. it was infinite when I did it, but I did it vs a lvl 9 computer so it could be that it can be tech'd or DI'd out of.

of course this could already be known, I didnt search thoroughly really (Just searched "Luigi's Mansion" in Pika forum and looked for a mention of the lock), but it isnt in the Pika tricks tread and I figured that if it works it can really improve Pika's matchup on Luigi's Mansion, especially since its easy to set up and hard to punish. I would research this myself but I lack the spiffy frame by frame testing tech that some of you guys have out there. Not to mention I haven't really got anyone to test with

Human players can tech out of just the u-tilt if they hit the ceiling or the ground. Plus i think the u-tilt picks up a downed opponent so a jab-lock effect wouldn't happen either.

 

[~automatic]

LP is right. I ussually try to chase their direaction out of their tech or follow up w/ a neutral air or something.

Do we have pika's framerates laying around somewhere on the boards?
I haven't really looked at everything (barely saw the tournament results thread right now) so I'm a bit curious.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

I asked Kaylo for the greenlight and I'll decide to place the finding here--its pretty straightfoward, but does have a lot of potential for research (if anyone likes doubles):

Pikachu Team AT: Lightning Lockdown--Cross-thunder REVIVED!

This is a very situational but FUN pikachu team AT (advanced technique) made possible by brawl's shield, ledge, and pikachu-thunder physics. Silly Sakurai. :D

What Happens?
1) Pikachu does a close wall of thunder edgeguard
2) Doubles Partner runs in powershielding the thunder rod and shoving pikachu back into it.
3) Pikachu's lightning rod (thunder 1) flows almost completely down before finishing with the famous blue explosion (thunder 2) --> What was once a near impossible move to pull off, Cross-thunder has now become viable and still looks just as cool as ever!
4) All benefits of Cross Thunder (including both hitboxes, invincibility frames, and less aerial lag)
5) Partner (whoever I am teamed with...lol) is endowed with invulnerability to ALL HITBOXES of that one thunder (as a reward for finally giving me my most coveted AT in a practical form...lol)
6) If partner places the powershield/shield right, he/she will slide off the ledge with almost NO lag instantly after the powershield. Fun stuff ensues.... lol:

• Spikes
• Edgehogs
• Edgeguards
• Epicness!

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goyou4A6k2s&fmt=18

*Even if Pikachu is offstage, the opponent can still take advantage of the powershield-ledge-slide to pass through the thunder wall effortlessly*

Credits:

Legendary Pikachu, LDPK (me, writing this)
Arc-TheFallen- (TL main and seconds Samus *one in vid*... owns the Youtube Account)
Takushin (Fox/Marth in Friendlies)
WERK! (Samus main, For inspiration that made this discovery possible)
Ramen (Lucario)
Raven (MK)

And the Pikachu Smash World Community, for supporting me and other 'chus.

 

[Pikabunz]

Really nice find there LDPK. Maybe we will be seeing more pika in doubles.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

When you team with a kirby/MK you can get a guaranteed death at whatever %. The kirby U-throws, you go under where the opponent is, and thunder, and it kills the opponent off the top, much like the MK C4 trick.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Yea I've seen that too. Too much fun!

*Can't wait for the 2-vs-2 thread to progress*

Personally, I just like to have fun in doubles (at least... cuz i do better in tournies if i do it like that) using some of the 1v1 lower tier characters to mop up the top tiers. You should have seen the glow of suprise (the good kind, not the angry kind) on HRNUT & Cox(?)'s faces at HERB 2 when we faced off in doubles. They won (for the time being, but not next time... muahahaha!) but considering marth and G&W vs. Pika and Samus, I think we did good. lol.


~*For those of you who've missed my research post earlier, New AT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...88#post8104088 *~

 

[gallax]

it was hrnut and gdx that you faced.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

it was hrnut and gdx that you faced.

Oh yea... that's it. Thanks for the correctoin.

 

[Wiscus]

*lurks in*
If I can ever be of use in anything give me a shout! I'm not sure what I could do...but if you need someone to try something.....(hopefully my wi-fi will be stable)
*lurks back out*

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If a small character is shielding at the edge of a platform (or the stage) you can dash attack them once you are in the center of their shield, push them off the stage/platform, and footstool them. If you are on a platform, this can proceed to a QAL, or just have people in a bad recovering position.

 

[Pikabunz]

Hit Stun Advantage

Down Tilt Hit Stun Advantage

Mario (Fresh)
0%: +1
10%: +4
20%: +7
30%: +9
40%: +16
50%: +19
60%: +21
70%: True Knockback

Mario (Fully Stale)
0%: +0
10%: +1
20%: +3
30%: +4
40%: +6
50%: +7
60%: +9
70%: +10
80%: +16
90%: +17
100%: +19

 

[Twilight_Galaxy]

i would love to see some new tactics to up my pika but i still have to practice QAC dang it. The mindgames i try to use with pika even confuse me sometimes lol

 

[KayLo!]

ksdjlasdjklasdjls

HITSTUN! Yessss. Good stuff, Prime.

Spoiler

I'm obviously very tired right now.

 

[Zajice]

Psssssht. Hitstun in my Brawl?

Note to self:
Down tilt moar.

 

[Sovereign]

I've mentioned this in the Pika chat to see if anyone else has tried it, but I've managed to T-jolt(air) my friend's Bowser, and it knocked him down, and he forgot to tech it, and I chased him, almost immediately with a QA and only hit him once, but I could've continued into a QAL, does anyone want to test this out?

 

[KayLo!]

I've mentioned this in the Pika chat to see if anyone else has tried it, but I've managed to T-jolt(air) my friend's Bowser, and it knocked him down, and he forgot to tech it, and I chased him, almost immediately with a QA and only hit him once, but I could've continued into a QAL, does anyone want to test this out?

You can QAL anytime someone misses a tech, no matter what move caused it.

 

[Sovereign]

You can QAL anytime someone misses a tech, no matter what move caused it.

True. I just would rather find the moves that cause your opponent to tech more, so that it ensure:

A) Tech chases, which would lead into grabs, and other things.

B) QAL

C) QAL to Jab Lock for the death combo.

 

[Pikabunz]

Here's some data I gathered from using Project SA.

Damage - Damage obviously.
Direction - Angle of knock back.
Base - Base knock back.
Growth - Knock back growth.
Size - Size of the hit box.
Y/X Offset - Location of the hit box?

nair
damage 12
direction 361
base 100
growth 22
size 420000
yoffset 300000

nair weak?
damage 6
direction 361
base 100
growth 20
size 240000
yoffset 300000

fair
damage 2/2
direction 74/74
base 20/20
growth 40
size 360000/300000
yoffset 132000/0
xoffset 30000/0

fair last hit
damage 3/3
direction 50/50
base 90/90
growth 70/70
size 480000/420000
yoffset 132000/0
xoffset 30000/0

bair
damage 1/1/1/1
direction 150/150/200/200
base 100/100/100/100
growth 0/0/0/0
size 180000/180000/180000/18000
yoffset 120000/120000/540000/540000
xoffset 360000/-420000/-300000/240000

bair last hit
damage 4/4/4/4
direction 361/361/361/361
base 120/120/120/120
growth 40/40/40/40
size 270000/270000/240000/240000
yoffset 120000/120000/540000/540000
xoffset 360000/-420000/-300000/240000

bair landing
damage 4
direction 361
base 100
growth 10
size 480000
yoffset 240000

uair
damage 6/6/5
direction 80/80/80
base 60/60/60
growth 40/40/30
size 288000/345600/270000
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

uair
damage 5/5/4
direction 45/45/45
base 60/60/60
growth 50/50/50
size 288000/345600/270000
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

uair
damage 5/5/4
direction 115/115/115
base 60/60/60
growth 40/40/40
size 288000/345600/270000
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

dair
damage 12/12
direction 361/361
base 80/80
growth 20/20
size 404640/343320
yoffset 168000/0
xoffset 30480/0

dair landing
damage 4/4
direction 361/361
base 100/100
growth 50/50
size 480000/480000
yoffset 240000/240000
xoffset -240000/240000

dash attack
damage 7/7
direction 361/361
base 70/70
growth 40/40
size 331200/220800
yoffset 143040/40800
xoffset 30480/0

Attack11 (jab?)
damage 2/2/2
direction 0/0/0
base 30/30/30
growth 4/4/4
size 210000/180000/180000
yoffset 180000/180000/180000
xoffset 960000/690000/420000

AttackS3Hi (ftilt?)
damage 10/10/10
direction 361/361/361
base 100/100/100
growth 15/15/15
size 240000/210000/180000
yoffset -300000/0/0
xoffset 0/0/0

AttackS3S (ftilt?)
damage 9/9/9
direction 361/361/361
base 100/100/100
growth 15/15/15
size 240000/210000/180000
yoffset -300000/0/0
xoffset 0/0/0

AttackS3Lw (ftilt?)
damage 8/8/8
direction 361/361/361
base 100/100/100
growth 15/15/15
size 240000/210000/180000
yoffset -300000/0/0
xoffset 0/0/0

AttackHi3 (uptilt?)
damage 7/6/5
direction 96/88/88
base 124/124/124
growth 40/45/45
size 259200/230400/210000
yoffset 0/0/0
xoffset 0/-60000/150000

AttackLw3 (downtilt?)
damage 7/7/7
direction 361/361/361
base 100/100/100
growth 12/12/12
size 144000/230400/288000
yoffset 0/0/0
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

AttackS4S (fsmash?)
damage 20/20
direction 45/45
base 60/60/60
growth 70/70/70
size 228000/228000
yoffset 264000/264000
xoffset 552000/300000

AttackS4S (fsmash?)
damage 17/17/17
direction 42/42/42
base 70/70/70
growth 50/50/50
size 245999/245999/245999
yoffset 216000/216000/216000
xoffset 936000/552000/300000

AttackS4S (fsmash?)
damage 14/14/14
direction 70/70/70
base 60/60/60
growth 40/40/40
size 312000/312000/312000
yoffset 216000/216000/216000
xoffset 1380000/960000/540000

AttackHi4 (upsmash?)
damage 14/13/13
direction 85/85/85
base 90/90/90
growth 40/40/40
size 180000/240000/240000
yoffset 0/0/0
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

AttackHi4 (upsmash?)
damage 11/11/11
direction 90/90/90
base 90/90/90
growth 30/30/10
size 180000/240000/240000
yoffset 0/0/0
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

AttackHi4 (upsmash?)
damage 7/7/7
direction 40/40/40
base 48/48/48
growth 5/5/5
size 180000/240000/240000
yoffset 0/0/0
xoffset 0/-60000/180000

AttackLw4 (downsmash?)
damage 2/2/2
direction 170/170/90
base 30/30/30
growth 70/70/30
size 345600/345600/172800
yoffset 384000/384000/240000
xoffset -480000/480000/0

AttackLw4 (downsmash last hit?)
damage 3
direction 70
base 190
growth 70
size 720000
yoffset 384000
xoffset 0

 

[Pikabunz]

Exact Damage for Fresh Attacks

Jab - 2.1%
Ftilt(U) - 10.5%
Ftilt(N) - 9.45%
Ftilt(D) - 8.40%
Dtilt - 7.35%
Utilt - 7.35%
DA - 7.35%

Fsmash - 21% (sweetspot) / 17.85% / 14.7% (weak)
Dsmash - 15.75%
Usmash - 14.7%

Nair - 12.6% / 6.3% (weak)
Fair - 11.55%
Bair - 11.55% / 4.2% (landing)
Dair - 12.6%/ 4.2% (landing)
Uair - 6.3%

Pummel - 2.1%
Fthrow - 10.5%
Bthrow - 9.45%
Dthrow - 10.5%
Uthrow - 10.5%

Jolt - 6.3% (ground) / 9.45% (aerial)
Skull Bash - 7.35% (no charge)
Thunder - 10.5% (bolt) / 17.85% (T2)
Quick Attack - 3.15% (1st QA) / 2.1% (2nd QA)

 

[FzeroX]

Do you guys know about dthrow to nair. I'm not sure on what characters it works on, but everytime me and Z play at his house he uses it on my GaW and it works till like 50 percent

 

[Pikabunz]

Some info on ledge invincibility. Pika is special.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8257705&postcount=56

 

[bigman40]

Pretty interesting Prime. Thx for the information


....Zuzuzu....

 

[KayLo!]

Good ****, Prime.

Our resident mad scientist does it again.

 

[Pikabunz]

QaC from stage to ledge edgehog.

- Can pika make it without getting stage spiked by dolphin slice? (pika's spritebox>QaC> sweetspot matched up against Marth's up-b sweetspot range)
- Exact spacing for QaC > non-freefalling fall (if in the event the opponent sweetspots first during the attempted edgehog, pika doesn't die like a newb). Can the spacing be acheived with a double jump t-jolt (to zone the edge) > QaC edgehog?
- The frame advantage from opponents sweetspotting invincibility to QaC edge-cancel-dropoff > jump > u-air(or other aerial). Why? I wanna kno if (when executed perfectly) pika can deal free damage--without getting swatted by an opponent's (i.e. Marth's) d-air or something--to a sweetspotted opponent if pika misses the QaC edgehog . At the very least, the frame advantage info for that situation to pika's u-air and n-air will be particularly helpful for those who are more daring in gimping.

-Yes, Pikachu starts reaching for the ledge while he's still above the stage so it's impossible to be stage spiked if it's done correctly.
-Working on this.
-I don't get what you're asking here.

This thread needs to be more active!

 

[altairian]

Do you guys know about dthrow to nair. I'm not sure on what characters it works on, but everytime me and Z play at his house he uses it on my GaW and it works till like 50 percent

Doesn't fthrow->usmash do more damage and work on every character at low %'s?

 

[KayLo!]

Fthrow > usmash only works at really low percentages.... basically around 0%. After the opponent has some damage on them, they'll be able to DI away and jump, especially if they're light/floaty.

The percentages for dthrow > nair are a little more lenient, but it's usually better to dthrow > uair > nair (for more damage) or dthrow > uair > chase into an fair > try to follow up on the stun from that.

But..... yeah, dthrow > nair works. Not sure if it works all the way up to 50%, though.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

-Yes, Pikachu starts reaching for the ledge while he's still above the stage so it's impossible to be stage spiked if it's done correctly.
-Working on this.
-I don't get what you're asking here.

This thread needs to be more active!

Its been a while since then, but I think your ledge invincibility data you released a couple days ago sort of answered that question for me. I was wondering if certain opponents invincibility wore off before the edge-grab lag wore off--apparently pikachu has the least--YAY!

I was basically wanting to know the frames of lag the opponent's have grabbing the ledge and wondered if pika can get back on stage or position himself better BEFORE the opponent has a chance to react after the missed QaC edgehog (edge-cancelled successfully). Like the frame advantage between pika missing the ledge and ledge-cancelling and the opponents grab lag.

I wanted find a way/spacing so that maybe pika could have an almost "free edgehog" oppurtunity--that is, whether pika can ALWAYS attempt the QaC edge-hog and miss and STILL be able to QaC or jump back into "ready" position before the opponent can do anything (attack...) after lagging from the sweetspot. I need to look up the frames length for landing and QaC'ing again and compare them to the opponent's lag.

 

[altairian]

Fthrow > usmash only works at really low percentages.... basically around 0%. After the opponent has some damage on them, they'll be able to DI away and jump, especially if they're light/floaty.

The percentages for dthrow > nair are a little more lenient, but it's usually better to dthrow > uair > nair (for more damage) or dthrow > uair > chase into an fair > try to follow up on the stun from that.

But..... yeah, dthrow > nair works. Not sure if it works all the way up to 50%, though.

You know what, for some reason I read his post as bthrow, which is why i was confused about why you'd want to do it >_>

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Confirmed... Thunder glitch can straight up kill (as opposed opponent just falling to their death from confusion). Although very situational, i'd like to know the exact reason why this happens.... Thunder2 + samus up-b at the same time offstage = super flying samus that instantly dies (this time i caught it on video). I do think kaylo and I mentioned this before, but I was just again wondering why EXACTLY. This is akin to the d-air glitch and mario's cape glitch. It'd be cool if the research spawns new possibilities to gimp other moves than the ones observed before.

I'l get a vid up of what i am talking about if anyone is confused.

*currently cracked a method (updated 2009) of semi-bypassing youtube's low quality uploading. I am so happy! I will be uploading like crazy. I call this kind of upload HQ (HACKED-quality). Sample upload (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBQwpwKeh3Y) I've seen some of this quality work done by others... but it usually requires some pretty expensive pc tools. This is 100% legit and FREE. :D*

Edit: @ K-Prime... I am sorry for requesting so much information--kinda makes me feel like a selfish inquisitive jerk sometimes. Altogether, how many "scientists" do we have besides you ol' Prime? Are you feeling overworked? Must other people take on some projects? How do we do it? (sorry for the many questions again )