The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread (QA frame data added: 1/26/11)

[KayLo!]

Updated..... just small stuff.

- Minor formatting changes.
- Corrected/added note on Pika's ledge grab FAFs.
- Added note to jump squat frames.

Prime, are all the CG numbers in this thread right? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783

I wanna make sure before I put them in here.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You should get rid of the ones that say "You can footstool at any time" but not the ones that you can footstool at the beginning because it helps with the diminishing factor.

 

[KayLo!]

Agreed.... I don't like the fully footstool-able ones being in there either.

--

Random but something interesting on Pika's smashes: fsmash and dsmash come out pretty **** quickly from a charge.

Fsmash
From Charge, Hits On: 2

Usmash
From Charge, Hits On: 5

Dsmash
From Charge, Hits On: 2

So for people who like to mindgame with charged smashes, the difference between, for example, an uncharged fsmash (frame 15) vs. one coming from a partial charge can mess up your opponent's timing sometimes. (Falco's fsmash has a similarly large difference, which is probably one of the reasons they catch people with charged fsmashes all the time.)

 

[Pikabunz]

Updated..... just small stuff.

- Minor formatting changes.
- Corrected/added note on Pika's ledge grab FAFs.
- Added note to jump squat frames.

Prime, are all the CG numbers in this thread right? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783

I wanna make sure before I put them in here.

Yes, all those numbers should be right. I still need to add some characters on that list though.

 

[Captain L]

turn around uair

Hey guys, you can buffer a turn around uair after dthrow. It's actually harder to do than the dash jump uair though so I just thought post it here in case somebody finds a crazy use for it.

Somebody posted THIS VIDEO on Dedede boards and I just tested now, it works for buffering a turn around jump after dthrow on Pika. Still it's 4 inputs instead of 3. Here's how it works anyways for people who don't want to watch the video:


dash in opposite direction
crouch
jump
uair/anything

All within the buffer window, and you'll be facing away from your opponent.

edit: ninja'd by k prime in a different thread

 

[Pikabunz]

You explained it better though. Funny how we got the same idea after watching the vid. Great minds think alike. ika:

 

[bigman40]

Might as well start playing this game with a stick with this stuff coming out.

 

[KayLo!]

I'll make sure to add the reverse uair when I do the regular one. Belated thanks L and Prime. <3

Finished the glide toss section (mostly because I finished Zelda's and copypasted lol), still working on the CG ones.

4.5 Glide Toss Breakdown [GLDT]

Glide tossing is a technique that allows you to slide a noticeable distance as you throw an item. Though Pikachu can't spawn any items of his own, it can be useful in matchups where the other character can (Diddy, Peach, etc.).

How to perform:

- Input roll in the direction you want to slide; then,
- Input item toss in any direction on the appropriate frame

Throwing the item on frame 1 of Pikachu's roll results in a super glide toss (a little less than half the length of FD).
Throwing the item on frames 2-4 of Pikachu's roll results in a short glide toss.​

The result:

Pikachu will slide while throwing the item.​

Because you can vary both the direction you slide and the direction you throw the item, glide tossing is useful as a mixup and as a way to string into other moves from an item throw.

 

[Captain L]

Pikachu's jab can lock opponents at medium to high percents. To jab lock an opponent they must be on the ground after missing a tech or being footstooled so they are lying down. Just jab, walk forward a bit, and repeat. With good SDI your opponent can get too far ahead of Pikachu for him to continue, but if they don't then you can keep going until you reach the edge of the stage. Your opponent will have a forced get-up after the jab lock so you can either forward smash or land the explosion of thunder if there are no platforms above you.

Due to move staling, even if you can jab lock your opponent once your jab can stale too much to continue the jab lock any further. I've listed percents that the jab lock works at and how many times you will be able to jab your opponent until the jab is too staled to continue locking them. The percents are when you START the jab lock, so even though jabbing metaknight 8 times at 68% will bring him well over 69%, you still can't get a complete jab lock.


57% - Single Jab
59% - Two Jabs
61% - Three Jabs
62% - Four Jabs
64% - Five Jabs
66% - Six Jabs
67% - Seven Jabs
68% - Eight Jabs
69% - Complete Jab lock


68% - Single Jab
71% - Two Jabs
73% - Three Jabs
76% - Four Jabs
78% - Five Jabs
80% - Six Jabs
82% - Seven Jabs
83% - Eight Jabs
84% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
64% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
70% - Five Jabs
71% - Six Jabs
73% - Seven Jabs
74% - Eight Jabs
75% - Complete Jab lock


57% - Single Jab
60% - Two Jabs
62% - Three Jabs
64% - Four Jabs
65% - Five Jabs
67% - Six Jabs
68% - Seven Jabs
69% - Eight Jabs
70% - Complete Jab lock


66% - Single Jab
69% - Two Jabs
71% - Three Jabs
73% - Four Jabs
75% - Five Jabs
77% - Six Jabs
79% - Seven Jabs
80% - Eight Jabs
81% - Nine Jabs
82% - Complete Jab lock


59% - Single Jab
62% - Two Jabs
64% - Three Jabs
66% - Four Jabs
67% - Five Jabs
69% - Six Jabs
70% - Seven jabs
71% - Eight Jabs
72% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
64% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
69% - Five Jabs
71% - Six Jabs
72% - Seven Jabs
74% - Nine Jabs
75% - Complete Jab lock


57% - Single Jab
60% - Two Jabs
62% - Three Jabs
64% - Four Jabs
65% - Five Jabs
67% - Six Jabs
68% - Seven Jabs
69% - Eight Jabs
70% - Complete Jab lock


57% - Single Jab
59% - Two Jabs
61% - Three Jabs
62% - Four Jabs
64% - Five Jabs
66% - Six Jabs
67% - Seven Jabs
68% - Eight Jabs
69% - Complete Jab lock


68% - Single Jab
71% - Two Jabs
73% - Three Jabs
75% - Four Jabs
77% - Five Jabs
79% - Six Jabs
81% - seven Jabs
82% - Eight Jabs
83% - Nine Jabs
84% - Complete Jab lock


55% - Single Jab
58% - Two Jabs
59% - Three Jabs
61% - Four Jabs
62% - Five Jabs
64% - Six Jabs
65% - Seven Jabs
66% - Eight Jabs
67% - Complete Jab lock


63% - Single Jab
67% - Two Jabs
69% - Three Jabs
71% - Four Jabs
73% - Five Jabs
74% - Six Jabs
76% - Seven Jabs
77% - Eight Jabs
78% - Complete Jab lock


58% - Single Jab
60% - Two Jabs
62% - Three Jabs
63% - Four Jabs
65% - Five Jabs
66% - Six Jabs
68% - Seven Jabs
69% - Nine Jabs
70% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
64% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
69% - Five Jabs
71% - Six Jabs
72% - Seven Jabs
74% - Nine Jabs
75% - Complete Jab lock


56% - Single Jab
59% - Two Jabs
61% - Three Jabs
62% - Four Jabs
64% - Five Jabs
65% - Six Jabs
66% - Seven Jabs
67% - Eight Jabs
68% - Complete Jab lock


57% - Single Jab
60% - Two Jabs
61% - Three Jabs
63% - Four Jabs
64% - Five Jabs
66% - Six Jabs
67% - Seven Jabs
68% - Eight Jabs
69% - Complete Jab lock


65% - Single Jab
69% - Two Jabs
71% - Three Jabs
73% - Four Jabs
75% - Five Jabs
77% - Six Jabs
79% - Seven Jabs
80% - Eight Jabs
81% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
65% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
70% - Five Jabs
72% - Six Jabs
73% - Seven Jabs
75% - Nine Jabs
76% - Complete Jab lock


60% - Single Jab
63% - Two Jabs
65% - Three Jabs
67% - Four Jabs
69% - Five Jabs
70% - Six Jabs
72% - Seven Jabs
73% - Eight Jabs
74% - Complete Jab lock


69% - Single Jab
72% - Two Jabs
75% - Three Jabs
77% - Four Jabs
79% - Five Jabs
81% - Six Jabs
83% - Seven Jabs
84% - Eight Jabs
85% - Nine Jabs
86% - Complete Jab lock


62% - Single Jab
66% - Two Jabs
68% - Three Jabs
69% - Four Jabs
71% - Five Jabs
73% - Six Jabs
75% - Seven Jabs
76% - Eight Jabs
77% - Complete Jab lock


64% - Single Jab
67% - Two Jabs
69% - Three Jabs
71% - Four Jabs
73% - Five Jabs
75% - Six Jabs
77% - Seven Jabs
78% - Eight Jabs
79% - Complete Jab lock


62% - Single Jab
65% - Two Jabs
67% - Three Jabs
69% - Four Jabs
71% - Five Jabs
72% - Six Jabs
74% - Seven Jabs
75% - Eight jabs
76% - Complete Jab lock


65% - Single Jab
69% - Two Jabs
70% - Three Jabs
73% - Four Jabs
75% - Five Jabs
76% - Six Jabs
78% - Seven Jabs
79% - Eight Jabs
80% - Nine Jabs
81% - Complete Jab lock


58% - Single Jab
62% - Two Jabs
63% - Three Jabs
65% - Four Jabs
66% - Five Jabs
68% - Six Jabs
69% - Seven Jabs
71% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
65% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
70% - Five Jabs
72% - Six Jabs
73% - Seven Jabs
75% - Nine Jabs
76% - Complete Jab lock


55% - Single Jab
58% - Two Jabs
59% - Three Jabs
61% - Four Jabs
62% - Five Jabs
64% - Six Jabs
65% - Seven Jabs
66% - Eight Jabs
67% - Complete Jab lock


63% - Single Jab
67% - Two Jabs
69% - Three Jabs
71% - Four Jabs
73% - Five Jabs
74% - Six Jabs
76% - Seven Jabs
77% - Eight Jabs
78% - Complete Jab lock


67% - Single Jab
70% - Two Jabs
72% - Three Jabs
74% - Four Jabs
77% - Five Jabs
79% - Six Jabs
80% - Seven Jabs
82% - Eight Jabs
83% - Complete Jab lock


66% - Single Jab
69% - Two Jabs
71% - Three Jabs
73% - Four Jabs
75% - Five Jabs
77% - Six Jabs
79% - Seven Jabs
80% - Eight Jabs
81% - Nine Jabs
82% - Complete Jab lock


61% - Single Jab
65% - Two Jabs
66% - Three Jabs
68% - Four Jabs
70% - Five Jabs
72% - Six Jabs
73% - Seven Jabs
75% - Nine Jabs
76% - Complete Jab lock


63% - Single Jab
66% - Two Jabs
68% - Three Jabs
70% - Four Jabs
72% - Five Jabs
73% - Six Jabs
75% - Seven Jabs
76% - Eight Jabs
77% - Complete Jab lock


70% - Single Jab
74% - Two Jabs
76% - Three Jabs
78% - Four Jabs
81% - Five Jabs
83% - Six Jabs
85% - Seven Jabs
86% - Eight Jabs
87% - Complete Jab lock


65% - Single Jab
68% - Two Jabs
70% - Three Jabs
72% - Four Jabs
74% - Five Jabs
76% - Six Jabs
78% - Seven Jabs
79% - Eight Jabs
80% - Complete Jab lock


66% - Single Jab
70% - Two Jabs
72% - Three Jabs
74% - Four Jabs
76% - Five Jabs
78% - Six Jabs
79% - Seven Jabs
81% - Eight Jabs
82% - Complete Jab lock


53% - Single Jab
56% - Two Jabs
57% - Three Jabs
58% - Four Jabs
60% - Five Jabs
61% - Six Jabs
62% - Seven Jabs
63% - Eight Jabs
64% - Complete Jab lock


65% - Single Jab
68% - Two Jabs
70% - Three Jabs
72% - Four Jabs
74% - Five Jabs
76% - Six Jabs
78% - Seven Jabs
79% - Eight Jabs
80% - Complete Jab lock


58% - Single Jab
62% - Two Jabs
63% - Three Jabs
65% - Four Jabs
66% - Five Jabs
68% - Six Jabs
69% - Seven Jabs
71% - Complete Jab lock


66% - Single Jab
70% - Two Jabs
72% - Three Jabs
74% - Four Jabs
76% - Five Jabs
78% - Six Jabs
80% - Seven Jabs
81% - Eight Jabs
82% - Complete Jab lock

Choose what you think is worth memorizing. I did not individually test characters who have identical weights as others (Yoshi and Wario for instance) but testing Pikachu/Metaknight and Falco/Olimar proved that identical weights will have identical lock percents (weights taken from AA's internal value thread).

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That's amazing...I was actually thinking about testing it somehow...but apparently you have it covered.

THANK YOU SO MUCH IT HELPS SO MUCH WITH FOOTSTOOL LOCKS!

 

[Pikabunz]

Very nice, Captain L!

If you don't want decimals, you can use handicap and go to a stage with walk-offs like Green Hill Zone and stand off screen to increase your percent by whole numbers.

 

[KayLo!]

If you don't want decimals, you can use handicap and go to a stage with walk-offs like Green Hill Zone and stand off screen to increase your percent by whole numbers.

Omg, never thought of that. Thanks Prime (even though it wasn't meant for me)!

 

[Captain L]

Kprime that's exactly* what I did, but unfortunately I found out that it increases at a very fast rate of decimals when you do that. I tried to get out of the bubble as soon as possible once I was at the right percent, but my tests were sometimes slightly off.

This is the reason for that note on Pikachu and Metaknight. I knew they should've been exactly the same, but I got different results at 68 and 69 percent. After redoing it a bunch I found out you had to be out of the bubble at like EXACTLY 68 percent in order for the jablock not to work indefinitely.

*not on green hill zone

EDIT: ignore this, apparently I was doing it wrong earlier.

 

[Pikabunz]

Hmm, how sure are you about this? I've done some test to prove that it doesn't increase by decimal and it didn't seem like it did.

 

[Captain L]

I have no idea what I was doing wrong but it's working fine now.

EDIT: I know what I did wrong. Since I knew Pikachu and MK were the exact same weight after the first bunch of results I just tjolted the Pikachu to speed up time, not realizing that it would put a decimal in. I'm pretty sure I did everyone else correctly though, double checked some of them just to make sure and it's still what's up there.

 

[KayLo!]

Did some updating!

- Added block advantage for everything except specials.
- Frame data is now complete for everything except specials, tech rolls, and trip durations.
- Removed hitlag, shield hitlag, and shield stun since they're not important to know.

Prime is working on a total frame breakdown for QA, so I'll post that once it's done. If anything's confusing, let me know!

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pikachu has 0 safe options on shield....good thing our grab is scary, otherwise people would be shielding all day vs us.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, Pika is pretty *** vs. shields, although there's spacing + shield push to consider (not that he's very good at either lol).

Dtilt is pretty much the only safe thing we have on block. & grab obv, like you said.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

D-tilt is amaaazing :D

 

[Leaf.]

Didn't you hate d-tilt esam?

 

[Tagxy]

Very awesome update.

tbh what annoys me the most is his lack of a safe kill move. Most attacks are punishable when they hit a shield, but kill moves tend to get shielded more and a lot characters at least have that one smash or tilt they can hit a shield with and be safe (MK - fsmash, snake - utilt, lucario - fsmash).


As a few asides... full hop autocanceled dairs are nice on a shield. Also pika is good at punishing most things opponents can do after shielding. And my new favorite thing to do to potential spot dodgers/shield droppers/people air dodging close to the ground is fair :D (ill elaborate some other time).

 

[Dark 3nergy]

D-tilt is amaaazing :D

after watching you use Dtilt in tournament i've pretty much started using it in different situations on the ground. That coupled with some occasional jabs make pikas grab game better if we get a trip.

 

[Pikabunz]

So I was testing a bunch of grab break stuff and found out that the earliest you can break out of a grab is frame 20 except for one character who breaks out at frame 21. Can you guess who that character is?

ika: ika: ika: ika: ika: ika: ika: ika:

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why does Pikachu have randomly bad things This and the tripping stuff...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

[KayLo!]

The trip thing is a myth according to Prime. Everybody's trips are ~the same.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Really? O.o

 

[KayLo!]

Really really! I dunno if he tested all 3 kinds of trips, but he tested the forced one (the one from attacks/bananas).

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

And the other two would be normal tripping (from a dash) and...pivot tripping?

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, I think you get a different animation if you trip while pivoting (SlipTurn in OSA2.... running trip is SlipDash).

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So, there is a spot in Pikachu's jab which has a 100% trip rate. I haven't perfected the spacing, but a video should be up today or tomorrow about it.

Get hype

 

[Pikabunz]

Hmm, you sure about that? On OSA it says jab has a .10 trip rate on all it's hitbubbles.

 

[PZ]

Success rate for trips please?

 

[KayLo!]

They're in the OP.

But other things influence trip rates too.... mostly knockback + trajectory angle I think.

 

[Tagxy]

Im really good at tripping with jab :D

 

[PZ]

They're in the OP.

But other things influence trip rates too.... mostly knockback + trajectory angle I think.

no i was talkin about the hitbox esam is implying and yea a stale ganondorf dair trips so knockback n staleness have the most part

 

[KayLo!]

He said 100% in his post......

 

[PZ]

He said 100% in his post......

like how many times did he try it on the hitbox err...nvm

 

[AtneyB]

Gotta see that **** *_*

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Or i was just INCREDIBLY lucky. Earlier today I did it 9 times in a row, jabbing, letting them get up, jabbing, letting them get up, etc.

 

[KayLo!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mat04WG-l7w

Anything is possible. x.o You probably did just get lucky.