The PokéLab: Pikachu Research Thread (QA frame data added: 1/26/11)

[Pikabunz]

The cgs in Melee weren't that hard to read and react to. Would you say Snake has a guaranteed cg with dthrow?

 

[The Truth!]

The player has maaaaany more options with snake dthrow. Get up attack alone ruins it because it forces the player to chose between shielding/spot dodging and not shielding/spot dodging, requiring lots of extra frames to cover that option.

In addition to rolling left, right, just getting up, or even staying on the ground. However, I have seen snakes destroy people with dthrow on platforms, because one or more of those options is limited.

 

[Pikabunz]

I think Marth can just sdi far enough so Pika can't reach with a single QA and a double QA won't hit Marth. So yeah, even if you could read/predict him, it's not gonna work.

 

[The Truth!]

You mean after theyre hit with the QA the first time? Just always end up next to them. I think most people already knew it wasnt a zero death since they can just go to the edge unless they hit jab lock percent.

 

[Pikabunz]

I mean anytime they're hit with QA during the QAL. I wonder how QAL works in stages with slants, like YI. (hmm)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It doesn't...YI sucks with QAL. If you are hitting them down the slope they get up, and since Pika's QA is weird on that level anyway...it just makes it bad.

 

[Zodiark]

I was playing with my CPU when I did that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbmAHGfoJ-U

WTF ? I'm not sure but I think I jump then fair fastly out of the ledge :o . I kept the .bin.

 

[Pikabunz]

We still don't know how this works exactly. We tried figuring it out a few pages back after seeing it in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK9fOHNSDpU#t=4m17s

At least now we know for sure that it has something to do with that ledge specifically.

 

[The Truth!]

Nah it works on other stages too. I tested it awhile ago, but its not very practical anywhere else, or even really there.

 

[Pikabunz]

What makes it not practical? And get replays of you doing it on other stages, cause I don't believe it.

 

[Zodiark]

It looks just like a platform cancel but with Fair we just have to find the right timing to do this :/

Edit : WTF ? I managed to Uair out of Fair by practicing on frigate . I just dropped out of the ledge then jump -> fair and continually DIing forward then Uair

Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFRf62tur9k

Now I'm sure , it's just a "fair cancel" ( but cancel like a platform cancel) and you can do whatever you want out of that !

 

[The Truth!]

I already posted a write up about it, I dont really care if people believe me or not, lol. You can read the post if you want to know about it cause Im not writing it again. Ill give a summary though, it requires a ledge with a lip and a wall directly below that you can wall jump on. Variations of those make it easier or harder. If Im not lazy sometime Ill look for the post, it might be in the PBR.

 

[Pikabunz]

It looks just like a platform cancel but with Fair we just have to find the right timing to do this :/

Edit : WTF ? I managed to Uair out of Fair by practicing on frigate . I just dropped out of the ledge then jump -> fair and continually DIing forward then Uair

Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFRf62tur9k

Now I'm sure , it's just a "fair cancel" ( but cancel like a platform cancel) and you can do whatever you want out of that !

I couldn't really see the fair coming out. What texture is that, btw?

I already posted a write up about it, I dont really care if people believe me or not, lol. You can read the post if you want to know about it cause Im not writing it again. Ill give a summary though, it requires a ledge with a lip and a wall directly below that you can wall jump on. Variations of those make it easier or harder. If Im not lazy sometime Ill look for the post, it might be in the PBR.

Like what stages? FD and PS1?

 

[Zodiark]

Frigate texture is http://www.mediafire.com/?lmzzmxtg255

 

[Pikabunz]

Oops, I meant the one on Pikachu.

 

[~Radiance~]

prime. i know its not really anything new, but i was going to make an updated vid on pikasliding and tactics and uses of it tonight. was wondering where you would want me to put it once i finish since idk if it deserves its own thread, i just feel that its easily one of pikas most useful and practical AT's that we have discovered

 

[Pikabunz]

Hmm, the video thread is probably the best place right now. I really should update that soon. I think someone should make a thread for all of Pika's useful ATs such as pika sliding and the scaring. You wanna do that FZ?

 

[~Radiance~]

Hmm, the video thread is probably the best place right now. I really should update that soon. I think someone should make a thread for all of Pika's useful ATs such as pika sliding and the scaring. You wanna do that FZ?

yeah id love to!

im gonna be doing it like by recording the TV tho sadly, but i can do that def. Im doing it this way cuz i wana insert my input verbaly, i thik itd help alot

 

[Pikabunz]

You can get someone like me or Nombre to record them then we'll send the vids to you so you can add in the commentary.

 

[Roller]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Do this, FZ. Your pikasliding vid was informative and everything, but the vid quality was awful. You can still record your voice while doing it, then just synch the 2 (audio/video) files after.

 

[Pikabunz]

Here's something minor and random I found. Ground jolts do 5% instead of 6% when hitting someone who is hanging on the ledge.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

interesting, do attacks in general do less to those on the ledge?

 

[Pikabunz]

Nope, just ground jolts. Air jolts still do 9%.

Edit: As long as they're in the air when they get hit, ground jolts will do 5%.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Why on earth would they bother programming that in the game? It serves no perpose that I can see...

 

[KayLo!]

Oh, if you only knew some of the dumb stuff programmed (or not programmed, in some cases) into Brawl.....

 

[Stealth Raptor]

yeah so much dumb stuff, like ganons fair

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

I don't exactly know HOW to do studies or anything... But I'm just storming up an idea, for Pikachu, using electric attacks on the Castle Siege statues in the second room will slow down the attack, making the dsmash hitbox stay there longer, (if this makes sense?) A way to abuse the statues? Or just not worth it?

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, you can extend hitboxes on the statues.

It helps sometimes. *shrug* Nothing game-changing, tho.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It helps more with thunder than D-smash. D-smash has like...no range so people with slight disjoints can just charge and hit us. Thunder...destroys everything :D

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

It helps more with thunder than D-smash. D-smash has like...no range so people with slight disjoints can just charge and hit us. Thunder...destroys everything :D

Not on CS? The Platforms are on top of the statues, Thunder can't go through.

 

[KayLo!]

I mainly use them for lagging fsmash.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

O_O! I Can confirm that the Statues DO make Marth's Tipper Lag, which is very unfortunate...

 

[The Truth!]

If someone gets the chance, could they get some frame data on ledge cancel stuffs? Mostly information starting from the beginning of startup and giving:

-for ledge snap on what frame pika becomes invincible (frame range if necessary)
-for regular ledge cancel/perfect ledge cancel the frame that youre allowed to start doing anything like jumping, moving, aerial, etc.
-and if its different from the above to, the frame where the QA is actually interrupted/cancelled either during the attack or cool down.

If that last one doesnt make sense just ignore it, lol. I want to add it to the thread I made.

Also maybe add my ledge thread and FZ's pikaslide thread to the beginning? I dunno if theres other threads that should be there too. Thanks!

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't get the last one...

 

[The Truth!]

You mean the knockback growth?

If so I think the only way to really use it is to compare it to other moves. Itd be cool if we could compare it to other characters moves too. I think low knockback/low growth and high knockback/high growth are probably the best moves from a knockback standpoint. Low knockback/high growth probably is pretty good too.

I was surprised how much initial knockback T1 has, no wonder it can kill so early.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Oh nvm I get it.

 

[KayLo!]

Low base KB + high KB growth is ideal imo. Having a mix of them all is the best tho..... otherwise you end up with bull**** characters like Zelda who can't follow up on anything or set up kills for ****.

There's also a third type of KB that has to do with weight, but we can ignore that for now.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Is there any set knockback in this game? I know there was for certain moves in melee.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, but Pika doesn't have any moves like that.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Moves that have set knockback would be...a few people's jabs (like jab 1-2 if they have 3). There aren't that many in this game...