Social The Pichu Social & General Discussion Thread

[the muted smasher]

I mean the strong part of nair. For the platform nair is there a timing to it or just gotta mess around with it? I can't mess with this till Saturday and I already have been wanting to try some platforming

 

[schmooblidon]

Hmm I dunno, it did 12% the way I spaced it. Wouldn't it just depend on your position relative to your opponents?

Nair AIA to Grab

http://gfycat.com/FearlessUnripeAmurratsnake

You gotta be pretty close to them. This will work at low percent, at higher you will have to jc grab.

The timings are

Battlefield
1 - Jump
.
3 - Jump
9 - Nair
17 - Land
23 - Can move/attack

Dreamland
1 - Jump
.
3 - Jump
12 - Nair
20 - Land
26 - Can move/attack

Yoshis flat
1 - Jump
.
3 - Jump
4 - DoubleJump
7 - Nair
15 - Land
21 - Can move/attack
Fullhop won't work on the flat, but will at lower points of the slant. You can do later DJ timings, but nair timing changes.

PStadium
1 - Jump
4 - DoubleJump
9 - Nair
17 - Land
23 - Cam move/attack
Different DJ Timings will work, but change nair timing, Fullhop will never work.

 

[the muted smasher]

Nair grab is a cool combo but nair is +1 on shield and I always steal port one like a scumbag so being able to possibly get free platform grabs is really neat and what I'm seeing here.

 

[DerfMidWest]

What the kid is trying to say is that Pichu's nair acts more or less like a sex kick.

So throwing the move out right before hitting the ground on someone's shield gives him +1.

So he steals port 1 for port priority to beat out shield grabs with his own grab.

 

[Comet7]

i always thought pichu was a guy

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yeah in melee its a male pichu.

 

[the muted smasher]

I think gender is match-up based idc.

But really port fights can be weird like as puff I think 3rd is the best overall (think fox on fd in now cornered and you aren't running through lasers or stuck on a top platform

 

[DerfMidWest]

Port fights really only matter for certain characters.

Generally over spawn points if there isnt neutral start.

But it matters a fair bit for like ICs and G&w a few others.
Other than that it only comes into play for characters with +1s or +0s on shields.

 

[Comet7]

would it be mean if i counterpicked ice climbers against another pichu and spammed ice blocks? i don't even play ics but i think it'd be fun to try.

 

[the muted smasher]

I really hate pichu dittos so that's more or less what I'd do but if I really wanted to see them fail I'd pick peach.

Is there anything to do in that mu other than careful nair cross-up with pull back up-smash as a read mix-up?

I wish I could say f-smash might be good if I wd back while they ff their fc fair/nair and hope they make themselfes di in. But idk

Dair is amazing if done at the perfect time to force a thunder combo reset when they cc at 60%


Also thoughts, about 60% if I di up and jump perfectly I can escape sheiks chain throw has anyone messed around with di behind nair? Because the hitbox comes out in back 1st

 

[Comet7]

you could also try taunting. maybe down tilt pokes would work.

any tips for dealing with falco's lasers? i'm trying to get decent at powershielding but it's obviously not going to work every time and before i know it i have a falco on top of me smacking my shield. i guess counterpicking dreamland instead of fd would help?

 

[the muted smasher]

Dreamland is by far the worst place to take falco as pichu, he has to much control and lives so much longer than.

He can use platforms better than You and even more so when they are higher.

Ducking can make it easier and You can full hop jolt if You think you'll hit him trying to sh laser. Also frame perfect nair oos or sdi grab are really solid.

Pichu does best vs falco on fod and fd I feel

 

[DerfMidWest]

Dreamland is generally pretty bad for floaties against spaceys (and other characters who can platform camp)

 

[KingClubber]

Pichu had a great 2014 it seems, lot of new players giving him a try.

Still hanging in there i see @ DerfMidWest , what happen to lil andy? Does he still play pichu?

 

[Comet7]

actually, i'm gravitating toward sheik as my main for the sake of winning... i'll probably keep pichu as a falcon counterpick on fd at least or a general secondary. and i also feel bad because i would have taken a match off a marth with pichu if i didn't suicide.

 

[the muted smasher]

Mario/doc are really free as pichu honestly it's nearly even, all You do is make sure he can't approach or projectile spam and take Your time, rush him down and force him to 2nd jump then bam gimp ed.

I honestly am a fan of most floaties and falco for pichu. Or pichu vs sheik. Falcon is kind of dumb if he plays it right and stops wanting to knee everything.

Yeah I like those pick them apart fights most.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu had a great 2014 it seems, lot of new players giving him a try.

Still hanging in there i see @ DerfMidWest , what happen to lil andy? Does he still play pichu?

Well there is a name I wasn't expecting too see! Whats up dude?
My pichu is mostly retired, but he still pops up in friendlies and at locals here and there.
These days I mostly just like to talk about the lil man.

Mario/doc are really free as pichu honestly it's nearly even, all You do is make sure he can't approach or projectile spam and take Your time, rush him down and force him to 2nd jump then bam gimp ed.

I honestly am a fan of most floaties and falco for pichu. Or pichu vs sheik. Falcon is kind of dumb if he plays it right and stops wanting to knee everything.

Yeah I like those pick them apart fights most.

Mario is alright, but still kinda bad, but doc is absolutely brutal.
Wd back-> dsmash/fsmash stuffs pichu's fraudulent approach, pills arent the biggest problem but they still interupt your movement, bair straight walls pichu out, etc.
Pichu does fine if either of them are off stage, but thats about it.

 

[Comet7]

i got to play against boss in a tourney yesterday, and he showed me why this mu is horrible... nair still works like usual and i could kind of wall him out for a bit with dash dance d tilts but whenever i got hit...*painful memories*

 

[the muted smasher]

Why are You doing anything to doc when approaching? I'm a firm believer in sh and keep all option till the peak and doc will have wd back by that point and you pull back empty and doc can't punish that without playing something wild like wd in place bait. And You slowly work forward and our nair loses so I also 2nd jump at times.

I still think is only 40-60 just pichu has a solid edge on the neutral and if You can find those 2nd jumps the punishment game is a lot closer to even

 

[DerfMidWest]

Uuuuh... Wd back still prevents you from doing anything.
Doc/pichu is like 90-10.
Double jumping back doesnt do **** and it puts you in a worse position that doc can react to and punish.

Also boss was at a tournament in 2015? Thats pretty hype.
Next break TheCape out of retirement.

Oh I also found a really weird thing with pichu today (who I practiced for the first time in 6 months)
You can cancel agility into the ledge before the animation starts.
It still hurts you, but it's an easier invincible ledgestall to do consistently than the other ones.

You can also doraki jump out of it.
If I get a computer soon Ill make a video because its hard to explain.

I also found a really cool position to edgecancel agility on the lower platforms of battlefield via double wall jump under the stage, but thats significantly less applicable to the real world.

 

[the muted smasher]

Wd back puts him in the corner and I do an empty xD it's really easy just pick apart his wall slowly with movement and he has to be aware nair is there

 

[Comet7]

how many pichus does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

also yeah boss still goes to tournies. he's at smash at xanadu all the time...

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu is an electric mouse he doesn't have to screw any (thing/one)

 

[Comet7]

but he'll hurt himself ;-/

 

[the muted smasher]

It's worth it to brighten someone's day

 

[Comet7]

Pichu is an electric mouse he doesn't have to screw any (thing/one)

whoa whoa whoa, pichu's a baby pokemon, right???

 

[MudkipUniverse]

doraki jumping (actually called the instant ledgejump) is the best thing ever

 

[DerfMidWest]

the full name is the doraki instant walljump. It's named after doraki since he was the first one to really start experimenting with it back in the day and all that stuff.
And it's pretty decent. It's not exceptionally fantastic with most characters that can do them reliably, except for pichu since he can do them on all legal stages other than battlefield and his agility gives him a lot of options/tricks with it.

Someday I will explain all of my doraki tricks, but some of them are pretty tough to break down, so not today.

 

[the muted smasher]

Inv. Jump jump nair by itself is an amazing edge guard tool and where You do the one jump I smash side-b xD space animals hate it xD

 

[DerfMidWest]

bad space animals hate it.

 

[the muted smasher]

I thought I said bad but thanks for the correct xD.

I am generally no big on the idea of changing Pichu other than his sweetspot but I came up with an amazing idea today.

Links f-smash is +1 for his 2nd hit on f-smash so technically if link wanted to he has the mix up of delay or charging the 2nd hit.

I think that would be an amazing idea to apply to pichu, s d-smash and they wouldn't even have to change the animation xD. While yeah it wouldn't be amazingly safe on shield due to grab, it could really push for some shield stabs, build fast percent and the mix up would really be good when You cross someone up. I preffer buffers that makes a terrible move niche to aid for their pre build back bone. And I think pichu is all about his cross up nair mix up game

 

[Comet7]

Let's not compare the massively OP and combo-able shine to a really laggy F-tilt. Shine can be done in air, done twice in succession, can be jump cancelled, has set knock back protecting from retaliation even at low percents.

U tilt has 6 less frames end lag (15 for F-tilt you're vulnerable, as opposed to 9), and U tilt hits behind, above, in front. In my experiences it's just so much more effective and useful and seems to hit way further than it should. F-Tilt I never get that feeling and I feel exposed.

Against Marth I've also tried F-tilts and it just isn't worth it over all the other moves that could be done instead (after clanking you are left more prone, and Marth can hit faster you at the close recoiled distance than U-tilt). Even if F-tilt connects it sends them off in crappy trajectories leading to no set ups or combo opportunities. Same with using it to edgeguard, D-tilt is so much more superior since it send opponents down and away, and U-tilt pops them up for air juggling.

i'll reply here to avoid cluttering derf's thread even more

no move is safe by itself. if you do something, it can be punished. yes u tilt is better when you want to hit people far away, but f tilt DOES have those advantages. yeah, congrats if you can't find a place for it in a set or something, but it can most certainly be used. down tilt doesn't stay out as long and comes out at frame 7 compared to frame 5 and doesn't have the priority.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Oh we moved that conversation to here I guess. I already replied in my thread, but w/e.
Ftilt is amazing.

 

[kingPiano]

Oh we moved that conversation to here I guess. I already replied in my thread, but w/e.
Ftilt is amazing.

Nah for some reason Comet thought the conversation wasn't relevant to your thread so he replied here, I think it is so I kept it there.

I don't deny that F-tilt is a super move, but I'm talking about strictly against Marth. I've tried incorporating it into play against local tourney marths and I get punished or overwhelmed (or grabbed) easily. With U-tilt I have much more luck and it usually leads into 2 free utilts (low percent) and a nair or two at any mid-high percent. F-tilt has way too much end lag to follow up into any good combos and it knock them away too far, great for edge guard but not for neutral against marth, which is what I was referring to the whole conversation.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Well we were specifically talking about for the purpose of clanking, in which ftilt is generally far superior.
When you clank, moves don't have their normal cooldown.
Utilt is very effective against marth in certain positions, like if you manage to get under him and he can't safely dair or bair you, but I find myself using ftilt much more since it does force a knock down.
Nair->ftilt is a pretty guaranteed combo at low percents and I really like it in general since it puts you in position to tech chase.
Dthrow->ftilt is also good near the ledge since it puts marth on the ledge, and he's terrible there.

Utilt is decent, but you have to be more careful with how you use it. I usually opt for usmash instead depending on what percent they are at or if they are in the air.

 

[kingPiano]

Well we were specifically talking about for the purpose of clanking, in which ftilt is generally far superior.
When you clank, moves don't have their normal cooldown.
Utilt is very effective against marth in certain positions, like if you manage to get under him and he can't safely dair or bair you, but I find myself using ftilt much more since it does force a knock down.
Nair->ftilt is a pretty guaranteed combo at low percents and I really like it in general since it puts you in position to tech chase.
Dthrow->ftilt is also good near the ledge since it puts marth on the ledge, and he's terrible there.

Utilt is decent, but you have to be more careful with how you use it. I usually opt for usmash instead depending on what percent they are at or if they are in the air.

"but in general against marth you don't want to tilt at all in neutral."

Well I don't intend to clank, that is just a bonus side effect (Never said that was the specific motivation for using Utilt over Ftilt, it was Comet's). And sorry but I completely disagree about never using tilts on Marth, any good Marth player will expect you to 1. Jolt or 2. Come flying at him a mad man nairing and bairing (which they can easily obliterate you with even slow reaction times) U tilt and U air are really the only moves with generous hitboxes and small enough lag that don't leave you exposed to Marth. F tilt will of course clank but rarely will it ever hit in neutral unless it's just a really slow Marth with bad spacial awareness.

I personally use U-tilt as a mix up: with dash dance/WD to utilt you can catch a Marth quite often short hopping to aerials or dashing /WDing in for a grab (they don't expect a ground game from Pichu). From there it's combo city if it hits, can lead to a grab, tech chases, juggling. It's my main starter and helps a ton dealing in neutral. Now of course you can't spam it but after jumping around nairing and trying to bait a grab you have to use tilts to break it up and be unexpected. On the ledge is can also be used to pop them up and Nair if you feel like D tilt's hit box won't make contact. You can of course end any combo with an F-tilt, but you can say that about any or Pichu's ground approaches (even the laggiest dash attack, F-smash, etc).

To me up smash and U-tilt serve entirely different purposes and ranges. Up smash has a small area it can hit and it's a fast hit box. I almost only use it to punish and when I know the opponent is in hit stun or then they are recovering to edge and I know they will be coming from above helpless (OoS too, but I like to nair OoS instead)

 

[the muted smasher]

I'd like to point out Pichu's ears are non sense how can You hear anything liek that? Maybe they can roll like a couch shell.

I like them

I used to judge/figure out pichu players by how their ears looked when they naired (different times had an affect)

 

[DerfMidWest]

Uh using moves in general is really not the way to go with marth.
That matchup comes entirely down to spacing and movement.
You come in on the ground too hard you get smacked with dtilt or pivot fsmash.

I do like dash cancelled utilts if you read marths jump, but its not something Id go for too much.

Platforms are usually the way to go.

 

[kingPiano]

Uh using moves in general is really not the way to go with marth.
That matchup comes entirely down to spacing and movement.
You come in on the ground too hard you get smacked with dtilt or pivot fsmash.

I do like dash cancelled utilts if you read marths jump, but its not something Id go for too much.

Platforms are usually the way to go.

Well if you don't use moves or attacks and only use spacing and movement AND you don't touch the ground....how do you win
/s

Ok ok I'll be serious now heehee

The only good thing about playing high tiers like Marth are that most of the locals will just copy everything they see the top 8 doing, so they become extremely easy to read. WD back Fsmash, trying to go for ken combo, desperate to get grabs for combo starting, sitting below platforms Utilting. Not too much creativity.

That's what I'm finding cool about playing a low tier, no one knows what the hell you're gonna do. But you know exactly what they are gonna try. And it's funny to watch them react when they discover Pichu can grab OoS behind him Muhauhauhaaha!

But the depressing part is that even when they are predictable and slow to react they can still take stocks thanks to the sheer unbalanced matchup (even though you're outplaying them completely) :/

 

[Comet7]

some people catch on to the matchup quickly though, especially falcons who notice that you're still in hitstun by the time they can down throw again or knee, and marths who remember that pichu's hurtbox extends a lot with agility like pikachu's with quick attack.

dang i wish i could get consistent with shield dropping after marth's up tilts and forward smashes to get him with nair and up air...