Social The Perfect Specimen Of A Man Returns!- A Wario Return Thread

[C-G]

It's less about the Hitbox extension and more about the Waft's hitbox and the ledge mechanics.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Bike is/was a crutch for a man who didn't have a lot going for him. I'm glad to sacrifice some bike worth to get all the goodies currently headed his way.

Such as more evidence of Fair stopping projectiles when he defeats KKR's Cannonball here at 0:26. I wouldn't be surprised if it was only physical projectiles though

Any projectile that clangs will pretty much be fair game of being stopped by the f-air, assuming that the damage difference between the two is rather small.

 

[MERPIS]

Alright, I'm gonna reply to this once and no further just because there's not much point in playing theory fighter right now.

Wario doesn't lose to disjoints, he loses to walls. Characters who use their disjoints to wall you out the entire match and get kills with proper spacing. This is not the same as characters using projectiles; Wario's aerial mobility means he WILL get in at some point, and his new buffs means he will be a better boxer when ontop of them (Nair in particular now that it doesn't suck). Of all the characters you listed, I would say that Marthcina is the only one I could see walling Wario out so often that the matchup is hella out of his favor, and that matchup has been historically bad.

Regarding the others. ICs want to get in. I don't see too much of an issue with keeping them out, and Nair should do a fine job of separating the two of them.

Roy is gonna be in your range enough that you should be able to box with him fine enough. Plus, in addition to Chrom, you WILL edgeguard him thoroughly.

Castlevania has sharp, linear angles. Wario is a mosquito that bobs and weaves like he's Puff. Not only will you be able to navigate his projectiles effectively, but once you get in you have a substantial advantage.

Hyrule boys all have their own flaws that Wario can exploit. Regarding Wario, they've got projectiles and swords to wall him out, but their disjoints aren't nearly as infallable as Marthcina. He has to commit to those options and use projectiles to cover. Young Link will probably be the hardest since he uses projectiles to get in rather than out, but his sword is pretty stubby in comparison, and I don't think he'll be able to really capitalize on disjoints, much like Roy.

GnW got too many of his moves replaced and they need research, so I'm not going comment on that one

I don't see how the Villager matchup has changed in a negative way from 4 to Ultimate, and as stated earlier, he's all projectiles. Skill based matchup IMO. Isabelle's new specials are both more dangerous, but aren't as spammable, so if you can get in they won't be problems.

Bayo was a losing matchup because Smash 4 Bayo was absurd and had Brawl Snake hitboxes. Both of these have been toned down substantially. Time will tell how much that matchup has changed.

How did he do against mewtwo in smash 4?

 

[C-G]

How did he do against mewtwo in smash 4?

It wasn't particularly noteworthy. You had to be careful on approach, and the long limbs could give you trouble, but like others, he had a hard time getting Wario off him when he got in, and there were noted holes in Mewtwo's walling that could give Wario the openings. Another skill based matchup, it was about momentum.

 

[Treked]

Does the ***** slap KO as early as his old side tilt? I heard it has less lag, same damage but less knockback and I want to be sure.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Does the ***** slap KO as early as his old side tilt? I heard it has less lag, same damage but less knockback and I want to be sure.

It looks the exact same as the old ftilt, just with a different animation. Frame data and damage is the same, so safe to assume the knockback isn't any different. (Doesn't look like it is honestly.)

 

[C-G]

Bair Trips too

 

[MERPIS]

Bair Trips too

why
WHY
W H Y

 

[Rakurai]

I'm wondering whether or not they actually made Wario's fair have a higher chance to trip then other moves now.

I guess we'd have to look at matches of other characters and see how often they cause trips with random moves.

 

[C-G]

I'm wondering whether or not they actually made Wario's fair have a higher chance to trip then other moves now.

I guess we'd have to look at matches of other characters and see how often they cause trips with random moves.

I made a thread about that in GD. Nothing so far, but silence can speak volumes

 

[C-G]

So after seeing more footage, I've come to the conclusion that tripping overrides knockback. In Smash 4, when a move caused too high knockback, they'd stop tripping, but I've seen too many times where Fair would launch a heavier, less damaged character than the Chrom at 60+% in that one video.

 

[MERPIS]

So after seeing more footage, I've come to the conclusion that tripping overrides knockback. In Smash 4, when a move caused too high knockback, they'd stop tripping, but I've seen too many times where Fair would launch a heavier, less damaged character than the Chrom at 60+% in that one video.

This is good right..?

 

[C-G]

This is good right..?

Well, one one hand, it's bad because it pretty much kills any chance of the trip hitbox on Fair being something we can reliably replicate. On the plus side, it means that any Fair has the chance to be deadly at higher percents. The question is now, how OFTEN does it trip.

 

[C-G]

A few more small observations

1) Chomp does indeed heal from projectiles it eats, not just items and people. It also seems to have increased healing the stronger the projectile. Saw it eat a low power Lucario Aura Sphere and heal for 2.2%. This may make matchups against dedicated projectile spam much easier.

2)Utilt seems to actually be worth a damn now. It's got a semi-decent combo potential and the hitbox looks pretty big

 

[MERPIS]

Am I the only one who loves the trope of “heavy character with good air speed”? It makes heavies feel so damn good and fun to play especially with a good move to weave with like wario or wolf’s fair. It makes me feel that the heavy in question is much more agile and nimble than they lead on to be and thus being heavy this is also the case

 

[C-G]

Bair has a weird hitbox

 

[Rakurai]

A few more small observations

1) Chomp does indeed heal from projectiles it eats, not just items and people. It also seems to have increased healing the stronger the projectile. Saw it eat a low power Lucario Aura Sphere and heal for 2.2%. This may make matchups against dedicated projectile spam much easier.

2)Utilt seems to actually be worth a damn now. It's got a semi-decent combo potential and the hitbox looks pretty big

The fact that the chomp has variable healing makes me doubt that it gets boosted waft charge from it on top of that.

And yeah, utilt looks almost as combo happy as Smash 4 Mario's now.

 

[WarioJim]

Bair has a weird hitbox

At least it looks like good weird.

 

[C-G]

It's worth noting, that in fighting games where life plays a key factor, there's a large difference between 'Does nothing' and 'Does the opposite'. In this case, having recovery on a Projectile eater means Zoners will sweat significantly more, as the time out chance is that much harder

 

[MERPIS]

At least it looks like good weird.

It looks like smash 4 shulk’s bair

 

[Rakurai]

It looks as though the hitbox extends a fair bit further back now, possibly because his head grows even more freakishly huge during the initial active frames on the attack.

 

[C-G]

You know, a thought occurs to me. With being able to angle Waft and Utilt being a good combo starter, I wonder if Utilt into Waft Rocket could be a true combo now

 

[Sari]

So the entire Ultimate soundtrack has leaked and we got hit hard:

https://pastebin.com/DkpUAg81

Apparently there is not a single new Wario song at all. No new remix, no new ported song, nothing. I think Wario and Final Fantasy are the only series to not receive at least one new song for Ultimate.

 

[Rakurai]

Well, that's disappointing.

Was really hoping they'd at least put Body Rock in the game.

 

[Treked]

So the entire Ultimate soundtrack has leaked and we got hit hard:



https://pastebin.com/DkpUAg81



Apparently there is not a single new Wario song at all. No new remix, no new ported song, nothing. I think Wario and Final Fantasy are the only series to not receive at least one new song for Ultimate.

 

[Treked]

At least Mona Pizza and Mike's Song comebacked.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Kid Icarus and Punch Out didn't get anything new either.

I kinda saw this coming, tbh. I would've at least taken Body Rock, but oh well.

 

[C-G]

Compiling a list of changes to Smash and what that means for Wario, either by how they affect him or other characters. Some of these are still coming in and I'm pulling this list from a Wiki, so be warned.

Universal Jumpsquat of 3- Buff. Self-explanatory

Recovery nerf- Mixed leaning towards buff. On one hand, his recovery took a hit, but on the other, he's an edgeguard character and now he can do that effectively.

Shield Grab Nerf(slower overall)- Neutral Change. Grabbing has never been Wario's go to punish, and his grabs are meh.

Aerial Shield Stun nerf (aerials hitting shields cause less shield stun)- Nerf. As someone who pesters shields, this can be frustrating and unsafe.

Perfect Shield Change - Neutral Change. Doesn't affect him in any particular way.

Damage Multiplier in 1v1 - Buff. Wario's hit and run style means he doesn't rack up damage very well, so the new percent boosts are welcome.

Footstool/Jab locking - Nerf. These were integral for setups in Smash 4. Here's hoping they aren't needed.

Full hop/Double Jump speed increase - Buff. Wario tends to use Full Hops often between Nair and Fair. This leads to an increase in bob-weave/hit-run shenanigans

Dash Dancing- Buff. With the new Dash attack, Wario is on the ground more, and can be dangerous with it. Previously his ground movement was a weakness, and while not a strength, is now a more viable option.

Act from Dash- Mixed leading towards Neutral Change. This will need to be tested a bit more, but none of the new moves Wario would gain access to would be worth going after. This can change as we learn more about the properties of his moves.

Jab change- Mixed leading towards Neutral Change. Wario's jab is one of his worst move. Unlikely to be relevant.

Extended Charged Smash window - Mixed leading towards Neutral Change. This could have some uses in ledge trappings, but otherwise is too niche to say.

Air dodge changes- Mixed leading towards Buff. This is one of those 'Others hurt more by it than my character' buffs. Wario's existing mobility allows him to better chase air dodges and punish better.

Loss of Rage- Nerf. As a heavy, Wario could easily get to rage state and live for a long time better than most. On top of that, Rage Waft was a scary trump card.

No running through characters- Buff. This means dancing around shield is the better way to cause left/right shenanigans. Wario's good at that.

Aerial Landing Lag Reduction - Buff. Self-explanatory.

Meteor Spike Changes- Neutral Change. Doesn't affect him in any particular way.

Rolling/Sidestep changes- Neutral Change. Wario stays safe by being mobile.

Total:
Buffs- 6
Mixed/Buff- 2
Neutral- 4
Mixed/Neutral- 3
Nerf- 3
Mixed/Nerf- 0

 

[Spinosaurus]

I believe canceling out of dash works similar to RTC, so Wario should get a lot from dtilt out of dash. (Utilt now too, honestly)

Rolls being worse is a boon for him too I'd say, especially backroll being a lot worse.

 

[C-G]

I believe canceling out of dash works similar to RTC, so Wario should get a lot from dtilt out of dash. (Utilt now too, honestly)

Rolls being worse is a boon for him too I'd say, especially backroll being a lot worse.

But we don't know what Dtilt itself will get Wario. Utilt is more promising but at the same time, the hitbox might not be good enough.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But we don't know what Dtilt itself will get Wario. Utilt is more promising but at the same time, the hitbox might not be good enough.

I know Dtilt to dash attack is true, that's a lot of damage and a potential kill confirm.

In Smash 4 RTC Dtilt to half waft was a true combo, so that might be the case with dash cancel dtilt.

 

[C-G]

I know Dtilt to dash attack is true, that's a lot of damage and a potential kill confirm.

Source?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Source?

I don't know if there's footage of it out there, but a bunch of people from the Wario discord that played the demo mentioned as much. Besides, dtilt to DA was true in Smash 4, and this new DA is only 1 frame slower.

 

[C-G]

I don't know if there's footage of it out there, but a bunch of people from the Wario discord that played the demo mentioned as much. Besides, dtilt to DA was true in Smash 4, and this new DA is only 1 frame slower.

This is good news. Mostly about Dtilt, but also about the speed of DA. I'll let the Mixed rock, but I'll update it later.

EDIT: I am very certain you can OOS Bair punish anything in this game, infront or behind him. The hitbox seems to be his entire body

 

[Rakurai]

I really hope someone posts some really solid Wario play to dispel the "Wario is nerfed" cult mentality that seems to be floating around, because I really can't see him being worse then he was in Smash 4 when practically everything in his kit was improved outside of the bike (Which arguably still got buffed in some ways due to being easier to keep on-stage without ledge crashing and also having actual knockback when thrown), and losing footstool combos is kind of mitigated by him having a stronger combo game in general due to better frame data/landing lag.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Am very happy he got the iconic tackle back. Wtf were they thinking removing it in Smash 4. I'll test the Dtilt combo tomorrow.

 

[Rakurai]

The one thing I want to know most about Wario is whether or not the waft charges more from eating stronger projectiles.

I'm not sure just the healing alone would be enough to deter people when it seems to heal for less then the amount the projectile would've done.

 

[WarioJim]

I'm starting to see all of these twitter clips of multiple characters, but where are the Wario clips man!

 

[WarioJim]

If there is someone trying tech, can I get a link to them?

 

[C-G]

I'm with you there. Where's the WAH combo video?