Social The Perfect Specimen Of A Man Returns!- A Wario Return Thread

Waht is your favorite Wario

  • Brawl Wario

    Votes: 20 19.8%
  • Smash 4 Wario

    Votes: 20 19.8%
  • PM Wario

    Votes: 36 35.6%
  • I want a new Wario

    Votes: 24 23.8%
  • I hate Wario

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Total voters
    101

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#1

The Perfect Specimen of a Man Returns-
A Wario Return Thread

Wario is a 2x Smash veteran who stars in his many other series such as: Wario Land, WarioWare, Wario Woods, and Wario World. No matter which one you know him from, Wario is the oddly lovable, burly strongman behind the zigzagged 'stache. Whichever you prefer, it's all Wario.

Movesets:
No matter which one you prefer Wario has seen a slightly different moveset in every Smash game he's been in. Here's a place to learn about his past, present, a hopeful future movesets.
:4wario: (it's a link to his moveset)
:wario: (also a link)
:warioc: (still linking movesets)

Costumes:

Stages:
Past, Present, Future?
A stage based on various minigames from the WarioWare games.

To see further transformations of this stage click here
A stage based on a minigame of the same name from Game&Wario. The stage takes place in 9-Volt's room, where 5-Volt comes by to check on you. If you're with her line-of-sight she hits you with a powerful attack. More info can be found here
A stage paying homage to older Wario games, with the same layout as the first section of the WarioWare, Inc stage



The Debate Goes On:
The interpretation of Wario in Smash is very much a hot topic to Wario fans. Taking most of his inspiration from WarioWare, many earlier fans of Wario aren't too pleased with his Smash Bros design. Regardless of your feelings,this is the place to share your thoughts on how you want Wario to return to Smash Switch. Please keep it civil, it's just a game.
 
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#2
Aside from having a stronger moveset that is less centered around WAFT, I just want see some visual changes to his attacks based on his abilities and transformations from his platforming games. Mainly from Wario World and the Land series.


Examples:

-His famous shoulder bash returns as his F-Smash (or maybe a new Dash Attack)

-He burst into flames during his Nair based on his Hot Wario form.

-The current back air, but Wario puts on the viking's helmet before he lays his head back. The horns give Wario more range and
launch at a more horizontal angle on hit.

-He does the Pile Driver from World for his Up-Throw. Acting like ROB's, but it creates an explosion which can hurt nearby opponents.

-Wario shakes the opponent like in Wario Land Shake It (AKA The Shake Dimension) for his Pummel.

-Up B: Spring Wario, (It's the same move as the current one but with a different animation) Wario coils up and quickly jumps and
spins like a spring.

-Idle Animation: Wario get's impatient and mumbles "Come on come on, pick it up and play"

-KO Voice Clip 1: Wario shout "Doh I Missed" from Mario Party 1 & 2.
 

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#5
Literally the only thing they need to do is make his Shoulder Bash his Dash Attack.

If DK can get his Rolling Attack as his Dash Attack, Wario can get his Shoulder Bash for the same input.
I like how PM handled his Shoulder Bash. It's a really important part of Wario, and I feel like a dash attack would downplay that. Would be better than no shoulder bash at all though
 

Quillion

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#6
I like how PM handled his Shoulder Bash. It's a really important part of Wario, and I feel like a dash attack would downplay that. Would be better than no shoulder bash at all though
Well, they can make it abnormally powerful and fast for a dash attack. I'd honestly prefer to have both the bike and shoulder bash.
 
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#7
Just give him his Shoulder Bash back and (possibly) replace his side-neutral tripping attack with the ramming headbutt from WL4 and I’ll be fine...

Wario keeps his most liked Brawl/4 moveset specials while he gets his most iconic move back.

Also include some goddamn songs and remixes for once. Trophies too if possible.
 
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#8
Yeah, the reason I don' think one or two move changes is enough is because it doesn't really capture the spirit of those moves.

Wario uses a shoulder rush to break blocks because has superhuman strength. That aspect is lost when the rest of his moves have him wobbling and prancing like a helium filled clown. The shoulder rush is an indication that his combat style should be that of a heavy brawler, you know what I mean?
 

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#9
Dash attack makes sense for the shoulder bash, just make it so that you can crouch cancel it to get the slide instead, like in WL4. A multi function dash attack would be fun.

Would be a waste to change any of his current specials, anyway. Bike and Bite are pretty top tier, Waft could have a visual change to be less gross but serve the same function (Wario Bomb works here I guess?) since the whole thing is the character's main hook. I think Corkscrew's alright, makes sense one thing had to give, especially with Bike being used for recovery and all.

The character's not great because they were way too conservative with his options. They clearly didn't have want to give him reliable kill confirm with Waft being a thing, but that didn't matter when Waft is stupid hard to confirm into anyway, you're better off making a read with it. He's just waaay too much effort and risk for low reward, he shouldn't be this frustrating to use. Honestly he felt like an afterthought, his design doesn't flow well in this game, he's lacking a lot of options other characters have, he barely got patched and there was the whole thing with him being secret for some reason. Yeah I dunno, I hope this game ends up better for him in any case. Tires and UAir killing would be good starts.

Shoulder Bash and Wectoring please.

And more Wario Land/non-Ware music this time.
To be fair, there's barely any Ware music either! The one new one in 4 was Japanese exclusive for whatever reason.
 
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Quillion

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#10
I think the Waft just needs a bigger hitbox, one that expands with charge. I can't count how many times I thought it would hit in Brawl but it didn't, leading to me never using the move in 4.
 

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#11
That's what made Rose Waft so goooooooood. The hitbox was enormous and it charged faster. It didn't kill as early, sure, but it had far more utility.
 
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#12
Hmm, seems my thread got moved. Oh well, nice to see more activity!

But Wario has always been both wacky and super strong in all of his games. I don't see why we can't mix the two sides.
The things he does are wacky, certainly. But his implied physical abilities are superhuman strength, elasticity and durability. Nowhere in his games does he really prance around like a helium-filled gasbag, throughout the Wario Land games he's always flaunted his raw strength. You should read the Wario Land 4 instruction manual to get a good sense of how he sees himself.

I loved this booklet, it was wildly entertaining, I miss when instruction manuals were fun to read.

https://media.nintendo.com/nintendo...vcCYOFUt/uUUuZ5pCq2aqQKKBDjbr9KwLQhW4TAxv.pdf
 
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Quillion

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#13
Nowhere in his games does he really prance around like a helium-filled gasbag
You literally mean like this?



I know the Wario fandom is small, but you'll find that most people agree that Wario Land 2 and 3 are the pinnacle of the Wario Land series due to balancing the wackiness with Wario's brute strength. Wario Land 4 and Shake It aren't held in as high of a regard because the wacky situations that Wario gets into were severely downplayed for a generic health system.
 
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#14
You literally mean like this?



I know the Wario fandom is small, but you'll find that most people agree that Wario Land 2 and 3 are the pinnacle of the Wario Land series due to balancing the wackiness with Wario's brute strength. Wario Land 4 and Shake It aren't held in as high of a regard because the wacky situations that Wario gets into were severely downplayed for a generic health system.
Puffy Wario is a transformation, not his normal state.

I love all the Wario Land games, but my personal favorite is 4. It's true they made the health system more generic but the benefit was that they took a traditional platforming formula and perfected it rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
 

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#15
Yo my thread got jacked. S'all good tho.

Well, they can make it abnormally powerful and fast for a dash attack. I'd honestly prefer to have both the bike and shoulder bash.
I don't like the bike, but I can respect that. Still I think the Shoulder bash needs some importance. Maybe make it neutral b with a charge or something?
 
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#16
I like how PM handled his Shoulder Bash. It's a really important part of Wario, and I feel like a dash attack would downplay that. Would be better than no shoulder bash at all though
That also neutered his recovery, which is one of Wario's biggest strengths.

Anyway, I posted earlier in the thread about changes I think they should make to make him more like the Wario we know:

Honestly all they really need to do is make his walk/run cycle not stupid, replace his dash attack with the shoulder bash and his dair with the butt slam and he'd be enough like his games without pissing off people who liked his old playstyle. I'd also like it if they replaced his down smash with the earth shake punch, his up b with that flying ball attack from Wario World and either his up or down throw with the pile driver, but beggars can't be choosers.
Basically, my though was that Wario is clearly not much like his games and many people are very upset by that (myself included), but a lot of people really like Wario's playstyle in Smash Bros. and would be very upset if he became a completely different character (myself included). Now that this is a veteran thread, I thought I might as well post all the changes I want to see (relating to making him more like Wario Land/World):

Aesthetics:
  • Get rid of his dumb tap dancing walk/run cycle and have him move like the other characters
  • More fluid motions in general
  • Give the visuals/sfx on his moves more of an impact like in Wario World
  • Make his classic costume the default
Ground Attacks:
  • Dash attack changed to shoulder bash
  • Up tilt and D-tilt animations changed but function the same
  • Bring back Brawl's F-smash
  • D-smash changed to the Earth Shake Punch from Wario Land: Shake It
Aerial Attacks:
  • N-air replaced with the current D-air. The body hitbox will function like the old N-air, while the head hitbox will function like the old D-air (that way won't really be getting rid of a move)
  • B-air animation changed to Wario throwing an elbow, but functions the same
  • D-air replaced with his signature ground pound
Throws:
  • Pummel replaced with shaking the opponent like in Shake It
  • Up throw replaced with piledriver from Wario World
Specials:
  • Up special replaced with Corkscrew Conk from Wario World. It travels as far vertically at its peak and even further horizontally, but increases falling speed (unless cancelled, which puts you into helpless). Deals only one hit, but it has KO potential. For those of you who don't remember it, it's this:
 
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#17
Oh boy, Wario...love the guy, he's my favorite Nintendo Character.

However, I gotta say I rather dislike the way he played in Smash4...his moveset seemed to be made for hit and run Gameplay....which is just sort of boring. Sure, landing those true combos into Waft is satisfying, it get's stale after a while, too.

I rather wish for a more dynamic Wario who has more of an impact to his moves.

Brawl F-smash and the Tremor-Punch from Shake it would be a great addition to his moveset, whereas a shoulder Bash dash attack with high Knockback might be pretty satisfying to connect with (especially aftra possible f or d-throw)
 

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#19
I want to put more effort into the OP. Anyone have any suggestions just let me know.
 

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#21
Since I haven't responded to this thread, I guess I'll just chuck my opinion out that I think it's very doable to reconcile both WarioWare and Wario Land in one moveset, I don't think they're so different, but I'd love to keep the Danny Devito character alive and well, immature or not I think he brings a distinct style to the game.
 

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#22
I want to put more effort into the OP. Anyone have any suggestions just let me know.
Pictures would be neat. Especially since this is more focused on his actual Smash version(so WarioWare stuff, maybe noting his current songs and which game they were in). Go all out~

As much as I like Wario Land, I honestly grew to love Wario in Smash. While I'm not a giant fan of fart attacks and such, I think it works well for him and still keeps within his character. Him being gross is more in-line with his Japanese portrayal(including in Wario Land), though I do want the Shoulder Bash to return(assuming we aren't getting a second version of playable Wario, of course, which could be interesting).
 

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#23
Pictures would be neat. Especially since this is more focused on his actual Smash version(so WarioWare stuff, maybe noting his current songs and which game they were in). Go all out~

As much as I like Wario Land, I honestly grew to love Wario in Smash. While I'm not a giant fan of fart attacks and such, I think it works well for him and still keeps within his character. Him being gross is more in-line with his Japanese portrayal(including in Wario Land), though I do want the Shoulder Bash to return(assuming we aren't getting a second version of playable Wario, of course, which could be interesting).
I'll try and add some current Smash Bros stuff, (as well as PM as that's my favorite interpretation personally), but don't know really how I'll go about it. Like, do y'all think I should just add random pics, or what?

I'll also add any movesets or costumes people choose to make for him or want to see in the future.

I was also thinking of making the title "The Man Of Many Faces" or something like that, based on the debate of what Wario people want to return. Thoughts?


Edit: Added some stuff to the OP
 
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Quillion

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#24
Well, since this thread has been split back into its original components, I would still like to insist that it's possible to combine Ware and Land into one portrayal.

The only things they need to add to Wario are the Dash Attack and maybe the Ground Pound. Otherwise, there aren't much elements that are so recurrent to Wario's character in Land that are both integral to that series and incredibly different from what Ware does.
 

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#25
Wario does deserve to have some adjustments to his Smash 3DS / Wii U moveset. For starters, give his f-smash some super armor so that it's harder to interrupt.
 

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#26
Has anyone here played the PM Wario? If so any thoughts on his attacks?

I love PM Wario, Shoulder Bash side b, DSmash ground pound, that punt for FSmash, I like his weird dair even though I'm not generally a fan of dive attacks
 

Quillion

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#27
Has anyone here played the PM Wario? If so any thoughts on his attacks?

I love PM Wario, Shoulder Bash side b, DSmash ground pound, that punt for FSmash, I like his weird dair even though I'm not generally a fan of dive attacks
PM Wario is to Land Wario what official Wario is to Ware Wario. Still really isn't ideal IMO.
 

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#30
Speaking of Wario, I do wonder what'll be of the Kat & Ana and Ashley Assist Trophies if Wario returns?
It's probably a little late for these three characters to change appearances to match those in WarioWare Gold. Granted, Kat & Ana's design in Gold is... shall we say... inferior to Game & Wario.
(Kat & Ana's design differs between Brawl and Sm4sh.)
 

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#31
Speaking of Wario, I do wonder what'll be of the Kat & Ana and Ashley Assist Trophies if Wario returns?
It's probably a little late for these three characters to change appearances to match those in WarioWare Gold. Granted, Kat & Ana's design in Gold is... shall we say... inferior to Game & Wario.
(Kat & Ana's design differs between Brawl and Sm4sh.)
I hope its too late, those look awful.
 

Grizzexploder

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#32
Change down smash to a ground-shaking punch like in Shake It
Bring back Shoulder Bash as forward smash and dash attack
Make down air Ground Pound
Make pummel a shake like in Shake It
Change forward throw into an aim-able throw like in Shake It
 

Wario Wario Wario

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#33
am I the only one who wants Biker to stay default? it's much more unique than a fat yellow Mario.

to me, the appeal of Wario is how UNcool he is and how little regard he has to what others say. I understand why older fans dislike Wario's current depictions, considering that old adverts (1990's-early 2000's) depicted him as a pure evil hypnotist who quite literally fetishizes destruction, and that's what they're used to (I grew up on WarioWare), but I don't think that's the correct depiction for Smash. a buff guy who just breaks everything doesn't have the same appeal to me as a guy who farts on others' faces, bites them and then runs them over with a bike.
 

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#34
am I the only one who wants Biker to stay default? it's much more unique than a fat yellow Mario.

to me, the appeal of Wario is how UNcool he is and how little regard he has to what others say. I understand why older fans dislike Wario's current depictions, considering that old adverts (1990's-early 2000's) depicted him as a pure evil hypnotist who quite literally fetishizes destruction, and that's what they're used to (I grew up on WarioWare), but I don't think that's the correct depiction for Smash. a buff guy who just breaks everything doesn't have the same appeal to me as a guy who farts on others' faces, bites them and then runs them over with a bike.
Personally I think his "fat Mario" look is more iconic, and would be the way to go. I'm also fine with the biker outfit tho, and just happy they included both so people don't have to choose.

I think this mentality should be applied to his moveset as well. I'm honestly not in love with his bike, but that's just because I'm pedantic and don't like giant vehicles popping up out of nowhere, and I also fell in love with his PM side special. Outside of that, I really have no qualms with his moveset outside of the lack of ANY shoulder bash. I'd like certain changes here and there, but I can also live with his design as is.
 

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#35
I think that his 'yellow fat Mario' look is more iconic, but that's because of the Mario sports/karts/parties as I also think that WarioWare has become his more iconic series, though that might change if the supposed new Land outing is good enough. It may have come after his initial series but outside of Nintendo fanboys the Ware series is far more well known.
 

Quillion

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#36
Now here's an interesting thread from what is probably the only Wario fansite there is. It details the quest of one man to set the record straight on how Wario games have sold over the years.

I'll post the sales data in this post:

Games that shipped over a million copy

Nintendo actually provides on its quarterly reports whenever a game ships over one million copies worldwide. A NeoGaf user found Nintendo has PDF listing all million-selling first-party games and made a thread about it. I'm not going to repost the PDFs since you can just go there, but I'll recopy the data relevant to the Wario games.

(none of the following include sales of download copies)

Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land

-Shipped 5.10 million copies worldwide, making it the best-selling Wario game and the 10th best-selling (first party?) Game Boy game

-Sold 1.59 million copies in Japan alone according to an old Tokyo Game Show slide, making it the best-selling Wario game in Japan

Wario Land 2

-Shipped 1.46 million copies worldwide

-Sold 260 733 copies in Japan, total

Wario Land 3

-Shipped 2.20 million copies worldwide

-Sold 254 968 in Japan

Wario Land 4

-Shipped 2.20 million copies worldwide

-Sold 484 591 in Japan

-Sold 719,055 in the US

Wario Land: Shake It

-Shipped 1.06 million worldwide

-Sold 114 263 in Japan

Wario Ware

-Shipped 1.10 million worldwide

-Sold 622 898 in Japan

-Sold 245,572 in the US

WarioWare Touched

-Shipped 2,47 million worldwide

-Sold 1 136 255 in Japan, making it the best-selling WW there and the 2nd best-selling Wario game in Japan after the original.

-Sold 320,850 in the US as of August 2005. I will try to find the lifetime data for this game later.

WarioWare Smooth Moves

-Shipped 2.36 million worldwide

-Sold 658 422 in Japan

Games that did not break the million barrier


Now this is getting interesting. All of these games did not ship a combined amount of one million worldwide, so they were not included in the above PDFs. NA and Japan sales data is still available for most of these games.

Wario World


-Sold 142 618 in Japan

-Sold 263,264 in the US

WarioWare Mega Party Games

-Sold 400 785 in Japan

-Sold 136,825 in the US

WarioWare Twisted

-Sold 463 938 in Japan

-Sold 114,195 in the US (According to Oscar Lemaire in the above-linked blog post, it had sold less than a thousand in its opening month. That's some pretty good legs...)

Master of Disguise

-Sold 289 872 in Japan

WarioWare Do It Yourself

-Sold 187 404 in Japan

- I don't have US sales data but it's likely the game did not sell well as it was quickly and massively discounted. A few years back, whee Super Mario 64 DS still sold for $40 new, DIY was sold $5 new at Best Buy (mind you, this was before the NWN shutdown)

Game & Wario

-Sold 63 567 total in Japan according to Famitsu. Media Create has it at 70k.

-According to the NeoGaf "leaker" Creamsugar (who had a NPD subscription or something), the game had sold 36k in its first two months in the US.

-The game did not make the Top 40 in the UK when it launched- if you removed games in console bundles and bundled with accessories, it was #40. There's a distinc chance Game & Wario sold less than one thousand in the UK.
As you can see, the Land series has sold about 12 million total. Meanwhile Ware has only sold about 6 million in total.

Wario Land has always been a consistently-selling series; even Shake It, which was considered to be a flop by some, broke a million. I think it's pretty clear that even at its worst, Wario Land is still more popular than Ware.
 

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#37
Now here's an interesting thread from what is probably the only Wario fansite there is. It details the quest of one man to set the record straight on how Wario games have sold over the years.

I'll post the sales data in this post:



As you can see, the Land series has sold about 12 million total. Meanwhile Ware has only sold about 6 million in total.

Wario Land has always been a consistently-selling series; even Shake It, which was considered to be a flop by some, broke a million. I think it's pretty clear that even at its worst, Wario Land is still more popular than Ware.
Ok, I was going to leave it until morning since it;s late here but that is actually such an eggregious misrepresentation of statistics that I can't bring myself to leave it. Numbers without analysis mean nothing, making an assertation based on numbers without making any judgements on those numbers is frequently misleading, and total games sold is a terrible metric to go by as its influenced by many outside factors.
So lets get into it.

  1. 5.1 Million of that '6 million copies' lead is from the first game, one that is actually under an entirely different brand than WarioLand. Yes, the first game still sold well and was popular, and I'm not implying that none of that is from it;s own merits, but the numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt considering it's still part of the 'Super Mario Land' series, the first of which has sold over 18 Million copies.
  2. Multiple of the WarioWare titles that are listed, and notably the majority of the ones that are in the 'less than a million' category skewing the 'sales on average' metric, are gimmick games that relied on features not core to the series. Twisted was a motion controlled GameBoy cartridge, D.I.Y relied on players developing their own microgames and only came with a quarter of the number of microgames of the very first one. Game & Wario, on top of being the only game on the underselling Wii U, was originally concieved as the tech demo bundled with the console before being taken over by NintendoLand, it's was largely marketted as a 'spiritual successor' mostly because it only came with 16 games.
  3. Hell, that guy lists a literal rerelease/port as it's own separate game, that's just inexcusible.
  4. None of this data is being analysed under the framework of its release window in the context of the system it's on. Like I said I'm tired and going to bed, not that I'd presume to be an expert in that kind of analysis, but that is incredibly important context.
  5. Take out Twisted and Game & Wario, which are literal tech demos, and combine the GC port with GBA's original and you're comparing 4 games to 7 for total sales, not even taking into account my first point about Wario Land 1.
  6. If you discount Wario Land 1 the two best selling games on that list are WarioWare (and I know, I can't just discount it entirely, this is just to proving how easy it is to twist this data)
I mean seriously, that's just plain and simple misrepresentation of facts right there. It's blatantly misleading to put those numbers out there and say

I think it's pretty clear that even at its worst, Wario Land is still more popular than Ware.
EDIT: This isn't to say that I think those numbers actually mean the opposite, I'm just focussing on the misrepresentation of WarioWare within those numbers. Wario Land is no doubt a popular series that sells well, that's why a lot of this is opinion and debate. Those numbers just don't settle it.
 
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#39
AH HA HA, WARIO TIME!

You better believe I have a lot to say about Wario. Honestly, I really feel he poorly represents the series as a whole. Not with his wacky, comical movements, those are fine, and do reflect a good part of Wario's uncaring attitude. I just feel there's a poor blend between Wario's various portrayals, heavily overemphasizing the Wario-Ware games over Wario Land and other more combat oriented Wario games. If they tried harder to strike a blend between these various games, I would be fine. At least with other commonly complained about characters, Sakurai at least makes an effort to at least acknowledge what people say he is ignoring. But with Wario, there seems to be none of that, in fact, his only Wario Land tool in his arsenal (Forward Smash, the Shoulder Bash) was axed for a generic punch (and his black and white Wario Land costume was also cut from the game) a very low blow to those who wished for more representation from other games. Sakurai did have a reason (he wanted to make Wario stronger, apparently), but there were many other ways he could have done it without further cutting into the people who wished for a balance between Wario's various games, and while I know this wasn't what he intended, it still comes off as just not caring. He's the only character who I really felt needed many big changes to reflect him as a whole.

Not to say these suggested changes came easy to me. Just the opposite, and take all this with tons of salt. When I looked to Wario's various games to try and come up with alterations to his moveset, I found myself struggling to decide what should be in and what shouldn't (basically, making him feel like brute force Wario from Wario Land, combined with the mellow, relaxed, laid-back Wario in other environments). I also actually found it hard to part with some moves from his official Smash portrayal, because despite being objectively bad to me.... well, I still have fun goofing off with them (and it does make me see why Sakurai was reluctant to make big changes, lol). I wanted to try to maintain that fun while keeping his evil fighter side intact. Blend together his WarioWare and Wario Land aspects. This isn't everything I came up with, but the basic fundamentals. (And I'm still figuring out what I want to do with his Shoulder Bash. It should be there SOMEWHERE).


AESTHETICS

* Someone is certain to ask, so I'll cross this bridge right now. Wario's default outfit is still his biker outfit, because I like it and it fits Wario well to me, plus it helps distinguish him from the Mario Bros. However, just like in Brawl, Wario has 8 variations of both his biker and plumbers outfits. If Little Mac can have 16 alternate costumes, why can't Wario?
* Wario's dash now looks like his running animation from Wario Land: Shake It! His old tap dancing run has grown on me and it reflects Wario's stupid, casual side, so I didn't want to part with it. It is now his walking animation. His general animations are more fluid (but some attacks are still pretty wonky)
* Wario is a bit more expressive. He now sneers visibly during specific attacks (like his smash attacks), and when sent flying a long distance, he looks shocked, as if thinking "How is this happening to WARIO?!" Somewhat related, he speaks more in general; for instance, when KOed off the side, he either says "Do'h, I missed" or "I hate you." This was done to separate him from the silent Mario Bros, and because it made it easier for his personality to shine through
* Wario has an extra idle pose. With a bored look on his face, Wario lazily picks his nose and looks at the booger on it. Similarly, some of his victory poses have been altered. During the victory pose with his bike, he now either says "Wario..... the legend!" or "Now, you obey WARIO!" During a no contest or if he loses the match, Wario does not clap, like a few other characters; instead he faces away, gritting his teeth and closing his eyes in disgust.

GROUND MOVES

* After his neutral attack, he now does a quick strongman pose after the second hit.
* Wario now cruelly grins after preforming his forward smash, up smash, forward tilt, and down tilt.
* His current dash attack's properties are unchanged; however, the animation is different. Wario now rolls, akin to what he does in Wario Land 2 when pressing down on slopes.
* Forward Smash is slightly altered; Wario charges up, and instead of a backhand punch, he swings up in an heavy underhanded uppercut, scowling and yelling out "You suck!" upon unleashing it. One move meant to represent his more aggressive side from his platform games. He can fake it out by holding the attack button after the attack; this makes the move even slower, but he hits even harder.

AIR ATTACKS

*I was going to keep n-air the same, but I liked Runic_SSB's idea of giving it the animation of his current d-air and making it a best of both worlds between both moves, so Imma piggyback off that idea. The rest of his aerials stay the same in function overall. Up air will get it's power from Brawl back, because I really liked killing with it there.
* The exception is down air, which, as you may have guessed, is his Ground Pound. I mean, I really don't see what else I could replace it with. It's one of Wario's most iconic moves, and it would make a beast down air.

GRAB

* I decided to give some of his throws a bit of attention. After all, one prominent feature of Wario in games like Wario World is his crazy throws. He piledrives friggin' dinosaurs, for gods sake! Compared to that, his throws seem a bit... underwhelming. First, his pummel has been changed. He now violently shakes his enemy up and down, like in Wario Land: Shake It! Honestly, should have been his pummel from the start.
* Forward throw received a visual upgrade; instead of slamming the opponent with his ***, he leaps up and violently dropkicks them to the floor. Another move meant to show off his more aggressive side. I know what you'll probably say, hitting people with his *** is also something that Wario would do, and it reflects his character well. I realized that.... so I made his *** slam his back throw again, like in Brawl, removing the Wild Swing Ding. This may be a controversial decision, but I did it for a contrast of his aggression and his crudeness between his forward and back throws.
* To make up for the loss of the Wild Swing Ding, I revamped his up throw. Now, he jumps up and PILEDRIVES THEM INTO THE GROUND, smashing them into the pavement and dealing high knockback, like a total badass, and yelling "Yeah!" afterwards. He bounces up a bit afterwards in the air and strikes a pose afterwards, 'cause he's Wario. If Sakurai wanted to make Wario stronger, this is what he should have done.

SPECIAL MOVES

*Chomp and Corkscrew are entirely unchanged, except Chomp can now throw people backwards, but the basic idea is still intact.
* His side special, I'll spend plenty of time talking about. His bike the other hand has received a few upgrades. For one thing, he has the tires from Brawl back. For another thing, when he rides on that bike, he always takes his hands off when he does a wheelie. Also, I made him look more relaxed when riding the bike in general, and sometimes when he taunts, he lays down on his side, like in Mario Kart 7 artwork (the middle image at the top of the very first post in this thread).
* Wario Waft..... well, he can keep it. He'd totally fart on people. Just a few things; as Quillion said, increase the hitbox size of a full charge Waft. I too, have missed plenty because of the bad hitbox placement. Also, at percents where it kills, both Wario and the opponent pause in place briefly upon a successful hit for a little more than a second, and then the opponent flies to his/her death. If you press the taunt button after hitting with a fully charged Waft, then Wario will yell, "Have a rotten day!"

And now, let me break in to talk about his most famous move. His Shoulder Bash. You may have noticed I did not discuss it anywhere. That's not to say I don't want it in his moveset in some capacity; I really really do. I just couldn't figure out where. My current decision (that will probably go back and forth a lot), is this; he gets it as a custom Side Special (assuming since, it would be easier than ever to port assets directly from SSB4, they actually take the time to explore customization to it's fullest potential). I didn't want to make it a dash attack because I felt Wario's trademark attack deserved better. I was considering making it replace the Bike..... but I just couldn't get rid of it. So I decided for now to make it a custom Side B. It functions just like it does in Super Smash Flash 2, including getting very powerful at the very end, except instead he yells "Hurry up!" upon using it.

So that's my moveset suggestions. I tried a meet in the middle approach. I love the Wario Man's portrayal in both Wario Land and WarioWare, and in my moveset ideas, I wanted to mesh together the best parts of both. I tried to make both the part of Wario that's an evil, buff guy who destroys **** and the part of him that's an uncool, uncaring guy who, as Wario Wario Wario put it so well, "guy who farts on others' faces, bites them and then runs them over with a bike" shine equally, and I hope I succeeded in doing this. What do you guys think? I really want some feedback on these ideas.
 
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DNeon

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Messages
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NNID
D_Neon_Lamp
#40
AH HA HA, WARIO TIME!

You better believe I have a lot to say about Wario. Honestly, I really feel he poorly represents the series as a whole. Not with his wacky, comical movements, those are fine, and do reflect a good part of Wario's uncaring attitude. I just feel there's a poor blend between Wario's various portrayals, heavily overemphasizing the Wario-Ware games over Wario Land and other more combat oriented Wario games. If they tried harder to strike a blend between these various games, I would be fine. At least with other commonly complained about characters, Sakurai at least makes an effort to at least acknowledge what people say he is ignoring. But with Wario, there seems to be none of that, in fact, his only Wario Land tool in his arsenal (Forward Smash, the Shoulder Bash) was axed for a generic punch (and his black and white Wario Land costume was also cut from the game) a very low blow to those who wished for more representation from other games. Sakurai did have a reason (he wanted to make Wario stronger, apparently), but there were many other ways he could have done it without further cutting into the people who wished for a balance between Wario's various games, and while I know this wasn't what he intended, it still comes off as just not caring. He's the only character who I really felt needed many big changes to reflect him as a whole.

Not to say these suggested changes came easy to me. Just the opposite, and take all this with tons of salt. When I looked to Wario's various games to try and come up with alterations to his moveset, I found myself struggling to decide what should be in and what shouldn't (basically, making him feel like brute force Wario from Wario Land, combined with the mellow, relaxed, laid-back Wario in other environments). I also actually found it hard to part with some moves from his official Smash portrayal, because despite being objectively bad to me.... well, I still have fun goofing off with them (and it does make me see why Sakurai was reluctant to make big changes, lol). I wanted to try to maintain that fun while keeping his evil fighter side intact. Blend together his WarioWare and Wario Land aspects. This isn't everything I came up with, but the basic fundamentals. (And I'm still figuring out what I want to do with his Shoulder Bash. It should be there SOMEWHERE).


AESTHETICS

* Someone is certain to ask, so I'll cross this bridge right now. Wario's default outfit is still his biker outfit, because I like it and it fits Wario well to me, plus it helps distinguish him from the Mario Bros. However, just like in Brawl, Wario has 8 variations of both his biker and plumbers outfits. If Little Mac can have 16 alternate costumes, why can't Wario?
* Wario's dash now looks like his running animation from Wario Land: Shake It! His old tap dancing run has grown on me and it reflects Wario's stupid, casual side, so I didn't want to part with it. It is now his walking animation. His general animations are more fluid (but some attacks are still pretty wonky)
* Wario is a bit more expressive. He now sneers visibly during specific attacks (like his smash attacks), and when sent flying a long distance, he looks shocked, as if thinking "How is this happening to WARIO?!" Somewhat related, he speaks more in general; for instance, when KOed off the side, he either says "Do'h, I missed" or "I hate you." This was done to separate him from the silent Mario Bros, and because it made it easier for his personality to shine through
* Wario has an extra idle pose. With a bored look on his face, Wario lazily picks his nose and looks at the booger on it. Similarly, some of his victory poses have been altered. During the victory pose with his bike, he now either says "Wario..... the legend!" or "Now, you obey WARIO!" During a no contest or if he loses the match, Wario does not clap, like a few other characters; instead he faces away, gritting his teeth and closing his eyes in disgust.

GROUND MOVES

* After his neutral attack, he now does a quick strongman pose after the second hit.
* Wario now cruelly grins after preforming his forward smash, up smash, forward tilt, and down tilt.
* His current dash attack's properties are unchanged; however, the animation is different. Wario now rolls, akin to what he does in Wario Land 2 when pressing down on slopes.
* Forward Smash is slightly altered; Wario charges up, and instead of a backhand punch, he swings up in an heavy underhanded uppercut, scowling and yelling out "You suck!" upon unleashing it. One move meant to represent his more aggressive side from his platform games. He can fake it out by holding the attack button after the attack; this makes the move even slower, but he hits even harder.

AIR ATTACKS

*I was going to keep n-air the same, but I liked Runic_SSB's idea of giving it the animation of his current d-air and making it a best of both worlds between both moves, so Imma piggyback off that idea. The rest of his aerials stay the same in function overall. Up air will get it's power from Brawl back, because I really liked killing with it there.
* The exception is down air, which, as you may have guessed, is his Ground Pound. I mean, I really don't see what else I could replace it with. It's one of Wario's most iconic moves, and it would make a beast down air.

GRAB

* I decided to give some of his throws a bit of attention. After all, one prominent feature of Wario in games like Wario World is his crazy throws. He piledrives friggin' dinosaurs, for gods sake! Compared to that, his throws seem a bit... underwhelming. First, his pummel has been changed. He now violently shakes his enemy up and down, like in Wario Land: Shake It! Honestly, should have been his pummel from the start.
* Forward throw received a visual upgrade; instead of slamming the opponent with his ***, he leaps up and violently dropkicks them to the floor. Another move meant to show off his more aggressive side. I know what you'll probably say, hitting people with his *** is also something that Wario would do, and it reflects his character well. I realized that.... so I made his *** slam his back throw again, like in Brawl, removing the Wild Swing Ding. This may be a controversial decision, but I did it for a contrast of his aggression and his crudeness between his forward and back throws.
* To make up for the loss of the Wild Swing Ding, I revamped his up throw. Now, he jumps up and PILEDRIVES THEM INTO THE GROUND, smashing them into the pavement and dealing high knockback, like a total badass, and yelling "Yeah!" afterwards. He bounces up a bit afterwards in the air and strikes a pose afterwards, 'cause he's Wario. If Sakurai wanted to make Wario stronger, this is what he should have done.

SPECIAL MOVES

*Chomp and Corkscrew are entirely unchanged, except Chomp can now throw people backwards, but the basic idea is still intact.
* His side special, I'll spend plenty of time talking about. His bike the other hand has received a few upgrades. For one thing, he has the tires from Brawl back. For another thing, when he rides on that bike, he always takes his hands off when he does a wheelie. Also, I made him look more relaxed when riding the bike in general, and sometimes when he taunts, he lays down on his side, like in Mario Kart 7 artwork (the middle image at the top of the very first post in this thread).
* Wario Waft..... well, he can keep it. He'd totally fart on people. Just a few things; as Quillion said, increase the hitbox size of a full charge Waft. I too, have missed plenty because of the bad hitbox placement. Also, at percents where it kills, both Wario and the opponent pause in place briefly upon a successful hit for a little more than a second, and then the opponent flies to his/her death. If you press the taunt button after hitting with a fully charged Waft, then Wario will yell, "Have a rotten day!"

And now, let me break in to talk about his most famous move. His Shoulder Bash. You may have noticed I did not discuss it anywhere. That's not to say I don't want it in his moveset in some capacity; I really really do. I just couldn't figure out where. My current decision (that will probably go back and forth a lot), is this; he gets it as a custom Side Special (assuming since, it would be easier than ever to port assets directly from SSB4, they actually take the time to explore customization to it's fullest potential). I didn't want to make it a dash attack because I felt Wario's trademark attack deserved better. I was considering making it replace the Bike..... but I just couldn't get rid of it. So I decided for now to make it a custom Side B. It functions just like it does in Super Smash Flash 2, including getting very powerful at the very end, except instead he yells "Hurry up!" upon using it.

So that's my moveset suggestions. I tried a meet in the middle approach. I love the Wario Man's portrayal in both Wario Land and WarioWare, and in my moveset ideas, I wanted to mesh together the best parts of both. I tried to make both the part of Wario that's an evil, buff guy who destroys **** and the part of him that's an uncool, uncaring guy who, as Wario Wario Wario put it so well, "guy who farts on others' faces, bites them and then runs them over with a bike" shine equally, and I hope I succeeded in doing this. What do you guys think? I really want some feedback on these ideas.
I like the effort you've put in, but the shoulder bash could still fit in well in a couple of places IMO. There's the forward Smash obviously, but also if you're willing to get rid of Wild Swing Ding for the *** throw then the front throw could, instead of being a drop kick, have him pick them up and plant(pitfall) them then step back a bit and wind up a shoulder bash to launch them.
 
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