Social The Perfect Specimen Of A Man Returns!- A Wario Return Thread

[Rakurai]

After much digging around, the only meaty bit of new Wario info I could glean is the bike has enough knockback to KO middleweights in the low 100% range at the edge of FD if it's thrown upward, which makes it a bit scarier as an edgeguard option now.

It seems like it's strictly the direction the bike is thrown in that influences its damage now, not the velocity, as it still does 19% even if it hits as it's landing as opposed to at the start of the throw.

EDIT: The healing from eating projectiles also seems to be around 20% of the damage it would've dealt, as a fully Dark Samus neutral B healed a measly 6%. It seems like it has a minimum healing value though, as wimpy stuff like uncharged Aura Sphere was noted as healing 2% still. Doesn't seem to produce any significant effect on waft charge either.

 

[C-G]

I know you can angle 1 minute waft, can you angle Fully Charged Waft?

 

[Connor66]

Bit of a reach, but I like to think that Wario's new D-air animation is inspired by his "diving into a pipe" animation from WL:SI, with the spin being a reference to how he enters pipes in the handheld Wario Land games.

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[Rakurai]

I know you can angle 1 minute waft, can you angle Fully Charged Waft?

The angled waft seems to have occurred as a result of residual momentum or some such because people who've had hands-on time with Wario mentioned that it can't be done manually.

...Now I'm hoping Wario has some new form of momentum control glitch similar to his weird DI shifting/wectoring glitch in Smash 4.

 

[Madwario]

Smash 4 Wario left me a bitter taste.

Not only did they remove Warios famous black and White costume, they removed his side * bash. Listen, Wario is Wario Land, Wario is not WarioWare. Wario Land 3 is what every damn kid at the schoolyard played when they got bored of Pokemon.

I hope sidebash is back in Ultimate and i can finally choose my black and white costume again. I havent unlocked Wario yet but i hope i wont be disappointed

 

[Rakurai]

The bike's KO power scales pretty drastically on how much momentum it has when it hits after being thrown.

Forward throws kill almost 50% later then upwards if it isn't being thrown from a higher platform.

 

[AquaTech]

Smash 4 Wario left me a bitter taste.

Not only did they remove Warios famous black and White costume, they removed his side * bash. Listen, Wario is Wario Land, Wario is not WarioWare. Wario Land 3 is what every damn kid at the schoolyard played when they got bored of Pokemon.

I hope sidebash is back in Ultimate and i can finally choose my black and white costume again. I havent unlocked Wario yet but i hope i wont be disappointed

Disagreed! At my school we all were playing WarioWare Mega Microgames on our GBA's.
I'm finding Wario to be viable against any opponent so far, loving his build and speed.

 

[C-G]

Who needs a bike when you violate the speed limit anyways?

 

[Tasokun]

Anyone happen to know any suggestions/tips against sword characters, specifically these three: Shulk, Chrom, and Roy? Seems I can't get in to kill them. Also does Wario have any non-waft kill confirms?

 

[Rakurai]

You usually want to dance around just outside of the range of sword fighters to bait them into whiffing something. With how spammable/safe nair is now, you can honestly just keep throwing it out constantly at a safe range then maneuver fall on somebody if they leave themselves open.

Wario's best bet for KOing people outside of the waft is to get them off stage and gimp them or set up a ledge trap using the bike (I throw it straight up, space myself to catch potential ledge rolls, then try to punish whatever option they do choose). Dash attack is basically a faster version of ftilt now, too, so it works well for tech chases and punishing.

He sadly still doesn't seem to have any proper kill confirms into his tilts or smashes at percents where they'd be deadly (Though late hit nair into bair can do the trick at certain percents if they're at the edge).

 

[_Keno_]

Anyone happen to know any suggestions/tips against sword characters, specifically these three: Shulk, Chrom, and Roy? Seems I can't get in to kill them. Also does Wario have any non-waft kill confirms?

You should always chase these characters off stage with fair. You can go REALLY far out there and still return with the bike

 

[C-G]

Anyone happen to know any suggestions/tips against sword characters, specifically these three: Shulk, Chrom, and Roy? Seems I can't get in to kill them. Also does Wario have any non-waft kill confirms?

Dtilt into Dash attack kills at the 130% range

 

[Slip33]

I know it's coming, but I can't wait till they release on youtube Wario's Final Smash being done on every character.

 

[Tasokun]

Thanks for the tips everyone, it's been a little easier to fight Roy now, but Shulk is still just impossible for me.. I feel like I'm getting hit for more damage after every time I hit him.

 

[Rakurai]

I did some testing on what Wario can/can't bite in regards to side Bs and it notably works 100% of the time on Incineroar, both Pits, and Sonic.

The former two are normally difficult to challenge due to the long-lasting super armor, so being able to beat them cleanly when it's a popular kill option for both is really helpful.

Lamentably, you can't bite Ganondorf or Ridley due to their arms being intangible.

 

[C-G]

Did some Jab Lock labbing. Jab now does actually Jab lock, which is great for us that have trouble timing fast fall Fair. You can connect pretty much anything after a jab lock, but the most important ones can be hard. Specifically, Fsmash and Waft.

Full Waft is faster than Fsmash, but you need to be closer. Your window is tighter than you'd

Fsmash needs you to connect with the jab as soon as possible. You can connect with it, but for whatever reason, the longer you take before jabbing, the harder it seems to connect

Double Jump Fair -> Fair still works but I'm not gonna rely on that one as much as it seems more finnicky this time around and can risk a restand.

Any of Wario's other usual kill moves like (Ftilt, Dsmash, Dash) work absolutely fine

 

[C-G]

Found (ha, "Found". This thing is probably mad old but I've never seen it) an odd shortcut today that really only seems to benefit Wario. It's a button combination that allows for OOS Wafts.

The long of it is that when using jump+attack in this game, it always give you short hop no matter how long you hold the button. If you throw in special moves, the special move cancels the aerial and you get a short hop aerial. The combination is jump+attack+special roughly all at the same time. It's inconsistent to me and my old hands, but other WAH users might find use in it/might find it easier.

 

[_Keno_]

When does Waft reach KO potential?

I know theres a full charge time before you start glowing, but doesnt it reach kill power before that?

 

[Sari]

When does Waft reach KO potential?

I know theres a full charge time before you start glowing, but doesnt it reach kill power before that?

After about a minute, Wario will be able to do a half waft that moves him up a bit which has some good kill power.

 

[Rakurai]

Wario's kill options are honestly good enough now that I hardly ever find myself feeling like I need to use a waft before it's fully charged in order to secure a kill.

The spike in power the waft gets on the last 10% of its charge time or so is definitely worth the wait when it can let you delete someone's stock in a single combo/string.

 

[Deleted member]

I was happy when i saw that he got the shoulder bash from Warioland back.

 

[Jeck]

If I want to get better at Wario should I be watching Tweek or some other community member? He doesn't seem to have as big if an online presence as I wanted.

 

[Sari]

Which stages do you guys think are the best for Wario? Maybe it's because I'm so used to FG but I really hate Battlefield.

 

[C-G]

Which stages do you guys think are the best for Wario? Maybe it's because I'm so used to FG but I really hate Battlefield.

Battlefield's pretty bad because of how great it is for his worst matchup: Swordies. Wario can shark OK, but that's not REALLY his forte. And platforms can also interfere with his aerial game. Stay away from Battlefield, YIB, Lylat or Castle Siege.

Anywhere there's a long stretch of land for his combos and pressure to turn into tech chase. Layouts that have platforms but also big open areas are also fine FD, Smashville, The Pokemon Stadiums, Kalos, and Wario Ware are all fine choices

 

[Vengeance_NS]

are spacies and swordies just losing MUs for us? i struggle so bad vs any swordie and fox and his pals(tho falco is a bit easier )

 

[C-G]

are spacies and swordies just losing MUs for us? i struggle so bad vs any swordie and fox and his pals(tho falco is a bit easier )

Swordies are historically and hilariously bad, but only the Marthcina matchup is 'force you to change characters' levels of bad. None of the others have the perfect blend of speed and coverage they have, and Wario can AT LEAST find holes in their gameplan to abuse to make the matchup not horrible.

Spacies Is a tough matchup, but doable. They have speed to catch and kill you, but their low range means they do have to box with you, and Wario's boxing game isn't bad.

 

[MERPIS]

Maybe this was done before, but has anyone been testing the new up throw? That thing combos, extremely well mind you. Heck it can actually lead into waft's rocket hitbox at extremely early kill percents (70% on SNAKE) You can DI it but wario can just react to that by jumping in the direction of it right before wafting.

 

[popemanz]

I think people need to learn that his weakness is sword and even then he's at a 100-0 chance

 

[MERPIS]

I think people need to learn that his weakness is sword and even then he's at a 100-0 chance

I don't think swords dwarf him THAT much in this game, maybe just marcina/ike but the rest are more than doable

 

[popemanz]

no wait did put that in backwards

 

[_Keno_]

Wario can go very far off stage, and sword characters all have **** recovery. Definitely able to make it up there in my exp

 

[MERPIS]

Dudes I think dtilt into dash attack is an actual huge deal, it kills BOWSER at 136% from mid stage, and it usually has around a 25-35% window depending on the character, but on bigs and heavies its like 50% or so. And since dtilt is so safe to use you can kill extremely well from neutral if you can get a dtilt

Oh and are we considering the new buffed utilt and nair to be some of his best moves or are they still kinda bad? Also is ff uair good in neutral or is it, as well, still kinda mediocre in neutral

 

[Rakurai]

Nair and utilt are two of the easiest moves to combo into the waft out of and probably his best combo starters in general.

FF uair is the most damaging way to get combo strings going but also the hardest to connect with. I'm not sure if it even works on shorties like Pichu.

On an unrelated note, I hope they patch up B so that it connects all of its hits more reliably because I've noticed people falling out of it really often if it's not hitting them dead center.

 

[MERPIS]

So, can we all agree that Wario is top tier? They fixed just about all of his biggest flaws in smash 4, his kill power is now actually somewhat good with multiple kill confirms into waft, combos into dash attack, dash attack itself, bair now killing stupid early and bike as an item being really good pressure at the ledge which can actually kill now. Nair is obnoxious, uair is obnoxious, fair is obnoxious, he actually has good ground moves now with utilt and dtilt. He actually has really damaging combos now from utilt spam, which is like smash 4 mario up tilt but it does more damage, hits both sides with much better range, and it scoops better at 0% Uthrow now combos decently from low to mid percents. Then we can't forget the stupid comeback and win con that is waft, which now combos from up tilt at kill percents. His only actual problem is being walled out and his kinda bad range, though his annoying in and out play style negates both of these to a minor degree, he probably still has a few -2s like the marths and probably Ike/shulk but other than that I don't see a single MU that wario can't beat

 

[C-G]

Ike and Shulk are manageable. Shulk's got angle problems and Ike's too slow. But yeah, he's really putting up numbers. He's been in 4 different Grand Finals in 2 weeks. Really going to work

 

[MERPIS]

Ike and Shulk are manageable. Shulk's got angle problems and Ike's too slow. But yeah, he's really putting up numbers. He's been in 4 different Grand Finals in 2 weeks. Really going to work

Even if Tweek were to drop him we still have Gluto and Reflex to take names

 

[Emaxxy]

If I want to get better at Wario should I be watching Tweek or some other community member? He doesn't seem to have as big if an online presence as I wanted.

I don't think tweek really streams, but he might play on Cosmos stream since they are both in the LOFT. Just watch his sets at Let's Make Moves. Other players to watch are TheReflexWonder or just Reflex. He came in second at Kumite in Tennessee. He was a top Wario in Smash 4. Those VODs should be on the VGBootcamp youtube because they streamed the event. The last player to watch out for is Gluttony. He is the second best player in Europe for Smash 4 behind Mr. R and he's been maining Wario since brawl. He won Wanted which was a french tournament and he also won Valhalla 2 solo-maining Wario. VODs are going to be your best bet to learn more things you can do Wario. There probably won't be many guides.

 

[Rakurai]

I think the biggest takeaway I got from watching both Reflex and Gluttony is that people tend to be unprepared for bites, particularly turnaround bites with Wario's spammy air game forcing them to shield if he breaks through their spacing.

They pretty much never got punished for throwing it out in close quarters while people were shielding; only when they did it at a distance in anticipation of them moving forward with a special.

I also found it a little odd that neither of them went for the patented bike waft two frame even with the bike in position and the waft ready.

 

[MERPIS]

I think the biggest takeaway I got from watching both Reflex and Gluttony is that people tend to be unprepared for bites, particularly turnaround bites with Wario's spammy air game forcing them to shield if he breaks through their spacing.

They pretty much never got punished for throwing it out in close quarters while people were shielding; only when they did it at a distance in anticipation of them moving forward with a special.

I also found it a little odd that neither of them went for the patented bike waft two frame even with the bike in position and the waft ready.

I wonder if bike waft at the ledge works differently now?

 

[C-G]

There's too much setup and not enough need for the 2 frame now. Between airdodging changes, nerfed recovery, usefulness of bike projectile, and the additional setups into Waft it's just a low priority