~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[asob4]

also, for wario, upB cuts through any aerial approach he may use.
pretty sure up tilt also beats his dair

it can ONLY be even

 

[DanGR]

3GOD is right. Olimar doesn't have to approach.(air or not) Wario does. You have to be very mobile and move around while you bait grabs and dairs. uptilt has priority over wario's dair.(big thing to keep in mind) pivot grabs help phenomenally in this matchup as well.

ZSS- I've played only one good ZSS. She can combo very well. The main thing you have to avoid is her dsmash and her laser. That's what gets them started. stun laser will lead into a grab or into another dsmash that will lead into a variety of things ranging from upair strings to upb to pull you back down for another stun attack. Overall, try to throw pikmin to force her to be over-aggressive. She's a character that requires patience. If you can get her run in and fight close and personal, you should win the matchup. She takes advantage of her equally long range and her ability to manipulate your shield. Try to spotdodge her running approaches cuz she'll likely grab or dash attack>jab. punish grabs with your own grab combos and her dash attack hasn't enough lag for you to get fancy. Just try to use a quick dsmash to send her flying.

 

[asob4]

i found that being aggressive kept it close the whole time and camping won't help at all as she can kill the pikmin easily

 

[ph00tbag]

Just some data: ZSS can spam Plasma Whip underneath most Pikmin, but still out of range of your smashes and grab, so I'd imagine the neutral parts this game comes down in many ways to spacing. If she does get latched, you'll probably see her using bair to get rid of Pikmin, because it's entirely lagless upon landing. This isn't so bad, as doing so will wear down one of her best KO moves.

The big issue is whether you can KO ZSS before she knocks you off the stage. Olimar is much, much easier to gimp than ZSS, especially for ZSS, since she can be on the ledge, but her hurtbox is at a point where if you try to hit her with a purple, she can reel in, and be invincible when you try to Pikmin chain up to the ledge. This means that staying onstage is doubly important for Olimar in this match-up.

Even though Olimar has trouble with ZSS off the stage, he weighs more than she does (seriously, wtf?) and has a bit more power. IMO, the match is even, and depends on who can keep the match at their preferred pace the longest.

 

[asob4]

yes, it is 55-45 either way, me and fadedimage agree

 

[James Sparrow]

Spacing war like phootbag said. 50-50

 

[Dr. Hyde]

disagree but sure whatever makes you happy

not 50-50, there are things I'd like to say but nothing I would care to type

 

[asob4]

i would say 55-45 because it's anyone's game
though oli can kill faster than ZSS can due to his beastly pikmin

 

[joeysmash]

i think zero suit os a pushover. Olimar has nearly just as much range but more powerful and sometimes with less lag. Olimar has an advantage

 

[PrinceACE]

Okay I know I am a total noob but how come you guys have not done Metaknight yet? I think he would be the most important because he is probably the hardest match up.

I only fight one Zamus and it is pretty easy match up. The thing is I can get her off the stage and gimp EASY. For some reason when I play another gimpable character it turns into a edge guarding match.

 

[OlimarFan]

Okay I know I am a total noob but how come you guys have not done Metaknight yet?

All in good time, I guess.

 

[Dotcom]

I should be under most quoted people
*johns* lol.
Yup. Voting Meta Knight for next week though i most likely wont have comp access

BTW pit matchup is 60:40 us,

 

[asob4]

i DESPISE MK

mostly just space well and utilize any combo possible and up b, a lot

 

[PrinceACE]

BTW pit matchup is 60:40 us,

How the hell is pit 60:40?? I have a hard time against Pits because they spam and edgeguard

 

[Puddin]

Okay I know I am a total noob but how come you guys have not done Metaknight yet? I think he would be the most important because he is probably the hardest match up..

It's not that we don't realize he is one of the hardest match ups, but it's not like he is the only threat to Olimar and we need to address all of them, not to mention the fact that we take a week for every character so it would take a while to get around to all of Olimars bad match ups.

But yes Metaknight is a hard Olimar matchup...

Honestly I don't even know what to post about him, I just spam Fsmash when he tries to approach me but of course that doesn't always work because all of Metaknight's special attacks are for super approaching. I guess we could ask the Metaknight boards for help but they are full of noobs who use Metaknight simply to win =\

 

[DanGR]

I've already asked for them to come over to help. You can see how that worked out. >_> The reason I put off MK was b/c there's a bunch of threads already addressing how you should play against him. There aren't threads on how to fight Wario, Marth, and Kirby. Now we have one.

 

[Dabuz]

im good against mks, so do the mk week already

 

[DanGR]

this week is MK's. It's been up since yesterday. Look at the title.

 

[Dabuz]

but, we still have other unfinished weeks...

 

[shrinkray21]

Spacing war like phootbag said. 50-50

I had fun at the last tourney, olly vs ZSS...but I had ever MORE fun playing against snake :D

 

[ckm]

I am a metaknight main, and Id like to say that I feel this is 50-50 at best for MK.

The main thing about olimar that makes him a tough battle for me is his insane grab range. This allows for shieldgrabbing on virtually every approach. If the olimar player has decent timing, he can grab me on my way in as I rush in via a ground attack, and can shieldgrab any arial attacks I throw at him, even with good DI after the attack. The only option this leaves me when approaching an olimar player is to somehow attack with an arial and then land behind him... which usually ends up with me getting downsmashed afterwards.

Olimar can force MK to approach at all times due to his amazing damage due to pikmin, and his shield is suprisingly durable for such a lil guy. This means tornado is a less than stellar approach unless his shield is already somewhat diminished, as a good olimar player will shield the whole thing and then punish (which is suprisingly easy, given his great range).

Many MK players will disagree with my opinion on this matchup, but thats likely because they havent played enough good olimar players.

Obviously, MK's big advantage in this matchup is his superior air game, fast attacks, and his stellar gimping ability. This might sound like a huge advantage, but a good olimar player on the right stage (platforms own for you guys vs MK players) can negate these to the point that this matchup is a toss up at best, IMO.


Hope that helps your discussion. Please let me know if you have any tips for me against olimar players, I would appreciate it (particularly approaches that seem to work against you).

Thanks!

 

[Puddin]

I am a metaknight main, and Id like to say that I feel this is 50-50 at best for MK.

The main thing about olimar that makes him a tough battle for me is his insane grab range. This allows for shieldgrabbing on virtually every approach. If the olimar player has decent timing, he can grab me on my way in as I rush in via a ground attack, and can shieldgrab any arial attacks I throw at him, even with good DI after the attack. The only option this leaves me when approaching an olimar player is to somehow attack with an arial and then land behind him... which usually ends up with me getting downsmashed afterwards.

Olimar can force MK to approach at all times due to his amazing damage due to pikmin, and his shield is suprisingly durable for such a lil guy. This means tornado is a less than stellar approach unless his shield is already somewhat diminished, as a good olimar player will shield the whole thing and then punish (which is suprisingly easy, given his great range).

Many MK players will disagree with my opinion on this matchup, but thats likely because they havent played enough good olimar players.

Obviously, MK's big advantage in this matchup is his superior air game, fast attacks, and his stellar gimping ability. This might sound like a huge advantage, but a good olimar player on the right stage (platforms own for you guys vs MK players) can negate these to the point that this matchup is a toss up at best, IMO.


Hope that helps your discussion. Please let me know if you have any tips for me against olimar players, I would appreciate it (particularly approaches that seem to work against you).

Thanks!

I don't even use Metaknight and I [partially] disagree.

For some reason it is very difficult to grab Metaknight, probably because Metaknights Air game beats Olimars and his game in generall so he doesn't even have to approach via ground and if we do shield an aerial he will keep on us with hts multiple jumps to pressure us outta our shield. So our options are to roll away, spot dodge, or stop shielding to try and attack. And he need not even touch to ground to attack us and avoid grab, not to mention Shield Grab only goes on direction the only way of changing is to turn around.

Of course there is his speed to account for too =\ 6/4 Metaknight, maybe more.

 

[OlimarFan]

To be honest, I feel nervous when playing against an MK user. I never seem to get into my comfort zone.
I would usually counter MK by playing Snake...

 

[shrinkray21]

I LOVE fighting MK's...there is very little originality in this character and the matchup is EVEN IMO. Ways to win are simple.

1) Notes to everyone! There are two types of MK's...there are spammy ones that use b moves wayyyy too much and there are good ones with aerials. If a MK is using b moves too much...remember after about number 4-5 on each move, they no longer do really any damage. If they are good and are using aerials...see below.

2) Watch out for reverse shuttle loop and shuttle loop when you are out of jumps. You can whistle this very easily and actually is a better option than dodging.

3) All of MK's aerials are scary...duh...but only one of his smashes is...watch out for the dsmash...and occasional fmash and you should be alright.

4) MK dies really really really fast upwards. Upsmash is your friend here...you can upsmash and uptilt faster than he can double dair...so you have the advantage.

5) His best pikmin killing move is his nair...which has long lag if he's near the ground...therefore...latch IS a good option here...use it. MK has a difficult ground approach game to handle...purples really really help.

6) Finally...don't try to get in an aerial battle his Mk...don't be dumb :D...your grab game is everything here...you should get -0 to 50 very easily...and for the love of god...pivot grab his dash attack...however, watch dash attack to nair.

 

[ckm]

The only arial attack that has any success for me (as MK) vs a shielding olimar is dair. I can do successive dairs to wear away at the shield. however, this is not exactly foolproof. If I am not perfect with my spacing, I can easily eat an upsmash or uptilt. And as I said earlier.... sooner or later, if I want to keep pressure, I will be forced to land. If I land in front, Im screwed. I can try to land behind and avoid the dsmash, but again.. this does not work every time.

On FD, this type of arial assault works decently well... I am pretty good with dair, and I can fast fall between using upward-moving dairs to keep up some fairly good shield pressure. I can then retreat or land behind and continue the attacks from close range.

However, stages like Battlefield or Lylat Cruise make this almost impossible because of the platforms. It is very difficult to use successive dairs with the platforms in the way...often I will end up landing on the platform or the ground, and then Im in trouble...

Meanwhile, MK dies to upsmash and throws at relatively low percentages (which are very easy to obtain when using olimar... his damage is off the charts)

Show me a video of a skilled, defensive olimar (using grabs effectively, particularly shieldgrabs) losing decisively to a MK on battlefield, and I will admit to being wrong on this.

Until then, i think its fair to say that this is less of a bad matchup than you might think.

 

[TheWii]

Im having trouble with this Toon Link. His name is Pepito and he totally OWNs me! He 2 or 3 stocks me sometimes because his mindgames and combos with his boomerang is confusing my head and he is always jumping around doing his aerials and he sidestepp really good! And remember he plays with Izaw in tournaments and stuff. I seriously think he is the best TL player, hes great at mindgames, combos and owning the **** out of everyone.

 

[asob4]

go watch my vids vs a good toon link ^^

skank is teh name

 

[jtowns]

As a kirby player there are things you are missing from your guide. If you're looking for guidance for the dthrow combo potential, I have a thread up now: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187209

I am going to be looking more into this once my wii is fixed, but Dthrow Utilt Uaira nd possible dthrow again is possible against olimar. if anything olimar wants to di up in this situation, but that just leads to more combo potential for Kirby with rising uair. If you DI behind him he bairs, if you DI infront it turns into a dthrow. It's 4:30 in the AM though, so if this doesn't make sense I'm sorry

 

[TheWii]

I watched 2 videos and your Olimar is really good. Better than mine. That TL plays almost the same as the one im meeting but he doesnt do those confusing boomerang stuff.
I noticed that you dont always try to follow up with at fair or upsmash, why? Or is it just against that TL?

 

[DanGR]

I'll be gone all today. I'm goin' to another tourney to rep Olimar. Can you guys decide the next character?

 

[Snail]

I'll be gone all today. I'm goin' to another tourney to rep Olimar. Can you guys decide the next character?

Well then, since TheWii is having trouble with Toon Link, why not do him next? : )

Good luck at your tourney! Olimar pride >:O

 

[Jartravious]

Well then, since TheWii is having trouble with Toon Link, why not do him next? : )

Good luck at your tourney! Olimar pride >:O

yes please for toon link next

 

[Graz69]

i main with olimar, he is the ****!

 

[Puddin]

i main with olimar, he is the ****!

Thank you for sharing...I suppose thats why you post in the Olimar boards...

Yeah sure lets go with Toon Link.

 

[DanGR]

Just got back from the tourney. I used my own matchup thread to beat MookieRah (good Rob) I think I placed 5th or 7th or somthin. I left after I got knocked out. :/ We can begin the next character early b/c we've been covering MK for for about two weeks. This weeks character is the Toonster. Go at it. I'll update the OP later tonight.

 

[Kyas]

Im having trouble with this Toon Link. His name is Pepito and he totally OWNs me! He 2 or 3 stocks me sometimes because his mindgames and combos with his boomerang is confusing my head and he is always jumping around doing his aerials and he sidestepp really good! And remember he plays with Izaw in tournaments and stuff. I seriously think he is the best TL player, hes great at mindgames, combos and owning the **** out of everyone.

Against TL projectile spam, just powershield his arrows and boomie and when he goes in with a bomb, don't power shield it--just normal sheild. If you do, the bomb will bounce off and most TLs will rush right into it the first few times. Shield his arials and grab when he's landing. If he donesn't short hop, It's time for usmash. If he really starts spamming projectiles, just start spamming pikmin. His projectiles are owned by pikmin spam.

 

[TheWii]

Yeah but powershielding is hard. But I will try.

Thanks for helping.

 

[DanGR]

Yes kyas, Olimar can outcamp TL. If you're having trouble with arrow spam, just do full hopped pikmin throw spam to get over the arrows. The pikmin will cancel them out if they collide.

tourney-I made 7th. There were thirty peeps. Biggest one I've been to so far.

 

[Kyas]

Yeah but powershielding is hard. But I will try.

Thanks for helping.

One of the best ways to powershield more easily is to map shield to one of the face buttons. For instance, if you don't use X, map shield to it. The response is instant and, while not good for up close (your thumb needs to get back to A and B up close), is great against projectile spam. Also, if you whistle TL's dair while on the ground, you'll almost always have a sweetspot with dsmash. I'm fine using R against most projectiles, but for stuff like Pit's arrows and Pikachu's electro-bouncyball thingys, it's a nice option to have.

Olimar is a good counter for TL. So far, I've beaten every TL I've met except Santi. His anti-olimar game is really good :/

Oh and to Dangr: Congrats, man! I'm going up to Hylian's tourney on the 16th. That one should be around 30 and I hear theres an Olimainer who's going that's sixth in the power rankings for Texas! (Can't wait to meet him :D)

 

[Snail]

Yes kyas, Olimar can outcamp TL. If you're having trouble with arrow spam, just do full hopped pikmin throw spam to get over the arrows. The pikmin will cancel them out if they collide.

tourney-I made 7th. There were thirty peeps. Biggest one I've been to so far.

Meh, 7th is good :D I've never been to a tourney before. I'm shy -.- And there aren't a lot of tourneys where I live.

Well then... Toon Link... In the weekly character discussions in the Tactical Discussion section, it says Toon Link's biggest weakness is the sudden change in playstyle he has to make in order to KO anyone. Toon Link likes the same stages as Olimar does, basically the ones with a low ceiling. You can abuse that just as much as they can. Either way, they'll have to stop spamming projectiles eventually if they ever want a KO. The most common ways for TL to do this are his Uair, Fair (or Nair, at high percentages), Upsmash and Fsmash. Fsmash can be easily shieldgrabbed, even in between the two hits. It's the Fair, Uair and Upsmash you have to worry about.

The fair can be combo'd into with a couple of Bairs (or a grab, but meh. Most TLs avoid their grabs since they suck), but this doesn't work too well on Olimar at higher percentages. They can SHFF it too, usually throwing a bomb or boomerang first then following it up with the Fair. You can shield both or simply roll away. Upsmash... Just try not to be above him. He can run in and do a hyphen smash but that's kind of easy to see coming. Same for Uair, he can only use it when you're above him. Avoid that position and you'll be fine. He can also try KOing with his Dair, but this is extremely risky so most TLs will probably avoid it.

You can outcamp Toon Link because Pikmin easily outrange arrows, are faster and can't be shielded. This forces Toon Link to approach, and he's not very good at it. All of his approaches can be shielded and his grabs are pathetic, so abuse shieldgrabbing all you like. TL will approach with a bomb>aerial or a RAR. If you shield the first Bair, he'll land behind you. Don't let your shield down until he lands because he can follow up the bair with an arrow cancel if he sees you shield. As soon as he lands, grab him or Fsmash.

Toon Link is light, but he's hard to edgeguard. Vertical KO's work best. If he's above you, try to walk a bit to the right or left to avoid his Dair and punish the lag. You have to make sure to stay on the stage though. Toon Link isn't very good at edgeguarding but yeah, it's Olimar eh? :/

I'd say it's a 60/40 matchup in favour of Olimar, mainly because you can make him approach, something not many other characters can do.