~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[TheWii]

I was in trainingmode for 40 minutes but I still cant shorthop easily when I do side-b. Its easy to SH forward but not backwards.

 

[asob4]

practice moar
you'll get the timing down eventually

i sure am thankful i messed around with doc in melee, i perfected retreating b moves :D

 

[Dark.Pch]

Olimar has to bait Peachs Moves. This matchup is all about baiting.

The problem I usually have with olimar is his combos. He is good at locking Peach on to then. And hard to get away from him after dude to her weight. You do not want to rush Peach. Same time Peach does not want to rush a smart olimar. You can punish Peaches mistakes easy.

Don't really try to beat the Fair to jab, you are not gonna grab her or get an attack out first. What you can do is wait for her to slap, then grab or attack out of the shield. if the Peach player catches on, switch it up.

Fair and Back airs are a good way to get inside Peach and setup something.You can attack the turnips or grab them. Then Peach wont pull out another one (unless they are dumb) cause you are close to her and you would punish her easy. Use lots of spacing moves so it becomes hard to hit you if you screw up, and have pikmin do the damage for you.

Peach has a better pressure game than you do. When she downs air your shield, Uptilt out of it when its done instead of rolling.Her dair does not start up that fast to abuse your uptilt. Or upsmash.

Save your jumps, don't use them right away. Peach can gimp you easy with turnips. so you will need that jump to make it back. So many times I gimped Olimar and he could have made it, if he not waste his jump as soon as he went flying.

Attack out of your shield alot, this can mess up Peach's Pressure game and you can take control. When you feel in danger, brake away. Let the pikmin do damage. Launch three at her, and keep three to yourself so you still have some range with the up-B if you get your attacking Pikmin killed and you get sent flying.

I tell you now, you roll alot, your easy kill. You will just move into Dairs. or Fsmashes. (well this is how I punish rollers) But if the Peach is not all that smart, you may just get away with it.

 

[Dotcom]

If you would continue.. I don't know if you will or not. But what would you say are the bteer stages for us to go to.

Also would you say 65 - 35 Peach are good enough numbers?

 

[DanGR]

I was thinking 70/30 at least. Much harder than Rob.

 

[asob4]

well we can get earlier kills on peach... if we are able to touch her that is

 

[DanGR]

I haven't gotten a lot of info on the peach matchup,(and I haven't played too many either) so it won't be very "full" when I get to updating the peach section. a bulk will be from Dark.Pch.(thanks) Anyways,

Next character suggestions? I was thinking yoshi? Have we done him yet?

 

[Snail]

I haven't gotten a lot of info on the peach matchup,(and I haven't played too many either) so it won't be very "full" when I get to updating the peach section. a bulk will be from Dark.Pch.(thanks) Anyways,

Next character suggestions? I was thinking yoshi? Have we done him yet?

Yoshi is fine I guess. I personally don't find Olimar vs Yoshi a hard matchup but it's hard to get any good info because so few people play decent Yoshi's (and the ones that do are horribly biased.) Apparently, it's in Yoshi's favour... I just don't know why, but whatever.

 

[Dotcom]

Fine I think me and Waltz could help seeing as we play USA's best Yoshi on a decent basis.

 

[Excellence]

I've got a friend who plays a great Yoshi, so maybe I could give some imput. As for Peach, I'm at a total loss and this will be the first Weekly Matchup that gives me some enlightenment.

 

[Praxis]

The Peach matchup is pretty horrible for Olimar. The only way the Olimar can win is heavy baiting and camping- Olimar literally has NO approaches on Peach.

If Olimar is to stand a chance, backing up and throwing pikmin till Peach's float runs out and rushing her fall is the best shot and hope you don't get fair'd. Running usmash works well and kills fast if you can bait her into giving you an opportunity, because Dair will stop your hyphen smash instantly.

A bad Peach can beat a decent Olimar by spamming float and dair. You have to be BETTER than your opponent to win this matchup, thus it is clearly significantly in Peach's favor.

I don't really know it from the Olimar's perspective that well, but I've only had one Olimar really give me trouble after learning the matchup very well (we had many matches). Sadly, it was on WiFi which is a poor judge. That Olimar gave me trouble by heavy baiting and a lot of pikmin camping, then slamming me when I was trying to rid myself of the attached pikmin. He won a couple matches when he first started developing that strategy, but I still won the majority.


A couple things-
Peach can use attached Pikmin as weapons by running up and using Toad- the attached Pikmin set off the counter into Olimar's face.

Peach can over-B or dsmash to immediately destroy all Pikmin attached. The over-B trick is actually hard to punish since it tosses her up in the air and moves her backwards.

Peach's floating dair cannot be punished by any of Olimar's ground attacks.

Peach's fair is her best kill move against Olimar, as she will not be sweetspotting a usmash often- Olimar is short enough that he is actually below the usmash sweetspot when he stands.

Peach is probably the best edgehogger in the game. Once Olimar is offstage, a skilled Peach will throw a turnip after him, then float against the ledge and try to predict when Olimar will up-B, and immediately release the float when that time comes. The instant Peach releases the float, she grabs the ledge and gets invulnerability frames, and then can climb the ledge for even more.

Peach will get the majority of her kills on Olimar off of gimps.

If Peach hits you with a turnip offstage, you're probably dead. However, there's not much you can do. If you airdodge the turnip, you'll lose too much vertical distance oftentimes, and same goes for catching it with an attack. Save your second jump to jump over the incoming turnip strike perhaps? Not sure how to advise.

And Peach will punish you heavily for rolling or spotdodging. The best time to punish her is if she tries to fall into an attack such as Fair.


IMO, 65-35 or 70-30 in Peach's favor. Peach is a hard Olimar counter.

 

[Praxis]

So how can Olimar counteract this? I say the secret weapon Oli has is his purple thrown Pikmin. Hop, throw the fatso, Peach falls, hit her with a smash a grab, whatever. Normal Pikmin will just latch - which Peach can then remove easily while dairing Olimars face in. :D
Purple Pikmin put Princess Peach in her proper place! Mainly the ground.

Entirely correct. Purple Pikmin can stop the float. Also, it's a great way to recover- ShadowHydra uses this on me when I send him offstage. Purple Pikmin get thrown at me while I float against the ledge, and I'm forced to release my float early to avoid the purple pikmin, increasing Oli's chance of getting back or at least being able to spike me off the ledge when he dies.

 

[DanGR]

Thanks for the info Praxis. I'll quote you when I get to the peach update.

Well, that's the end of the week. This week is Yoshi! I'll update the OP later when I get home.

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi can do terrible things to Olimar's Pikmin. Egg Roll goes right through them, while Egg Lay immobilizes Olimar and leaves the Pikmin at Yoshi's mercy.

 

[Deleted member]

Easy matchup for yoshi(i has tourny expereince on it). Olimars spam game is a bit frusterating, but its not too difficult with smart bairs and taking advantage of olimar pullin out new pikmen to get closer or better, get olimar in the air. Once olimar is in the air, egg roll easily deals with all of his aerials. Egg roll kills pikmen on you, but gets grabbed so dont approach with it. Off stage, olimar can usually get back if he isnt hit too far, but lets say u fsmash but dont kill, u can jump off and rising nair to finish him. I like dairing olimars on the ledge, if i hit its a stock, if not im still puttin the pressure on. His grab combos are tough so try not to get grabbed(rising bairs are good). 6-4 yoshi.

Egg lay to dsmash i dont use, but it probably helps a bit.

 

[Mmac]

One thing I like to do is that when Olimar is picking his Pikmin after a Stock Loss, I like to EggLay him as soon as his invincibility wears off, and kill all the Pikmin he just Picked >: )

 

[Kiwikomix]

I love this matchup because it gets a lot of good use out of Yoshi's "bad" (situational) moves like Egg Lay and Egg Roll. It's also pretty fun to do things like outcamping one of the best campers in the game.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Uair can easily kill all the pikmin on and near Yoshi's body, and the bair approach eats through pikmin easy. I would say this matchup is in Yoshi's favor when used properly.

 

[DanGR]

I love this matchup because it gets a lot of good use out of Yoshi's "bad" (situational) moves like Egg Lay and Egg Roll. It's also pretty fun to do things like outcamping one of the best campers in the game.

Outcamp? With what? Hopefully you're not talking about egg throw. >_>

*waits for protoman and blackwaltz*

 

[Chaco]

Alright, the newly found Olimar hater is here...you won't believe how good the one I play is. alright here goes, first of all egg roll against Olimar is a big no-no. He will grab you all day long, so what you want to do for approaches is:

Bair approach into Utilt into Uair into dair.

Always works for me, Yoshi has aerial priority so it's pretty much a good move to get some opening damage with.

Moving right along, Olimar's grab game is what really screws Yoshi over. Since you have insane grabs, and pretty orgasmic side B to go along with that...you get two white on us and throw us, we'll we're not a happy Yoshi mainer. But the thing for Yoshi is, he can kill Pikmin ever so easily, it's not a challenge in the slightest.

So do not throw all your Pikmin at us as we will get you airborne and kill the suckers then string you until Jesus comes back.

But that's all atm, I need food.

 

[asob4]

well since we all know that you have your ways with pikmin, there would be a very light amount of pikmin toss, so we would probably never be without pikmin.
we could whistle to get out of juggles

you can't out camp us
not even snake can, what makes you think yoshi can?

i lack knowledge vs good yoshi's, but grabbing does work tons :D

 

[Mmac]

SideB should only be used to Kill the Pikmin on you, and steamroll over the rest he throwing. I don't like to follow through because of what you said, I'll usually get grabbed.


Also I'm willing to play against anyone if you're interested

 

[Chaco]

I would but I despise playing Olimar.

 

[asob4]

i really hate wifi, try weroup or zori for wifi

 

[Kiwikomix]

"Outcamp"
I might have to reword this...
"Shut down Olimar's camping"
Capisce?

 

[TheWii]

Now I have been working on Shorthopping side-b and I can do but its ALWAYS in my mind, I always thinks about and it makes me make mistakes. I shorthop forward and side-b then DI backwards but sometime I by accident full hop och press b instead of side-b. When my opponents are in range of side-b do I must shorthop? Cant I shorthop side-b when they are far away and just regular side-b when they are in range? I look like a noob if I dont, dont know why. But side-b with no shorthopping always hit more when my opponent is in range.

btw it sounds like im a side-b spammer but im not, I just have problem with this.

 

[asob4]

if it is really messing your game up, then don't worry about it
not being able to SH toss isn't the end of the world.

 

[Dotcom]

Am I late? *heroic pose* Blackman has arrived.
Ok before I start its 6-4 in Yoshi's favor. Not really an argument I feel its fact. I am not biased for Olimar and like some character mainers I won't try to make him seem better than he is, or say a match up is different than it is. The match up isn't TOO hard for us but indeed it's a sort of an uphill battle. I am not a Yoshi expert. I have played PRiDE a number of times and we are even 3-3 at the moment. No this does not mean I am an expert fighting Yoshi, but I am about 95% certain this is the best Yoshi at the moment Not a hard counter *looks at the skank (not you skank I still <3 you) named Peach*

Looking at most of the Yoshi users posts saying, stuff like "outcamp", "shut down Oli's camping game" as well as "kill all the pikmin on or around Yoshi", it would be safe to assume that the Olimar's you play or have seen play do nothing but Spam Side B? Maybe I’m a little over assumptions but I mean c'mon do you think Olimar is good because of his Over B alone..? Short answer NO.

But you are for a good deal correct. This is one thing that gives credit to the 60-40 Yoshi. It is that any good Yoshi know that many of his moves kill a lot of our Pikmin. But any good Olimar knows in which matchups to abuse side B to the fullest, and which to use it sparingly either as a way to make an opening in the lag from the move they try to get them off with, or if we are about to go for a D throw combo and we latch to rack up damage even faster. I don't think many character boards give us credit past, the Over B spamming Olimar's they play with most of the time, and that upsets me... but I digress.

Yoshi's Over B? Don't. Unless there's an idiot who decides to get all six on you (or all he has on him is purple) You will get grabbed. It’s a simple fact that we here in the Olimar boards go by. Do something dumb and get grabbed. Not only does it work it is effective. If you want to get Pikmin off throw an egg at the spot where you could get grabbed from. I haven't played him in a while but if I remember correctly doing this not only gets Pikmin off of you, but it protects you from something nastee .

N another thing.

One thing I like to do is that when Olimar is picking his Pikmin after a Stock Loss, I like to EggLay him as soon as his invincibility wears off, and kill all the Pikmin he just plucked

Ok no offence here but this makes me think that you haven't even played the match up and you’re going on what you've heard.
Yes Egg Lay to Dmash kills all of our Pikmin (like I said in another thread except Purple an sometimes Blue, and this only works when we are on the ground.)
Do you have any idea how fast we can pull out 6 Pikmin? I think my man Dan (lol rhymeZ) said someting like 1.4 Seconds. I mean like c'mon 1.4 Seconds there isn't much time to do anything with that.. Sometimes I even pluck 6 before my invincibility runs off. Also you have to be relatively close for Egg Lay, Inside grab range so I don't know if you want to do this. Also Alot of users suspect an Olimar to pluck 6 as soon as he loses a stock. Some Olimainers won't even pluck 6. We will do 3 (3 Pikmin is about less than a second me tinks) and Punish you for daring to be so close to us. D Throw grab combo's when Yoshi(or pretty much any character) are bad.

Watch and Believe (shoutout to Andy G)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEWVGiLCLcI

Ok so now I’ll follow our regular format nothing added necessary because I have two REALLY long paragraphs above this. Soooo

Scaring Moves:
Bair: Anybody who has ever played a Yoshi, or even seen a Yoshi play knows that Bair is awesome. Fast, Multi Hit, able to drop out and into another move with almost NO room to Punish, oh and Priority is crazy. Yoshi's Bair can cancel our Upsmash.

Pivot Grab: Longer than Yoshi's regular grab and that speaks volumes about it. It's solid and kinda hard to predict especially when you're on the offensive. They can follow up with it, and you may get spiked out of it if you aren’t careful.

Egg Toss: You wouldn't think something this cute and harmless pwnz as much as it does. But think about the fact that we main a 6cm tall, huge nosed guy, with rainbow colored creatures following him around. It's a crazy move. It kills Pikmin on him, and Pikmin coming back to us. It's a good projectile and it stuns. Usually if they're on the stage they will spam this. I have seen it done from more than one Yoshi, and usually against an unprepared opponent not only did they not know what to do, but it racked up some damage, and kept the person from edge guarding.

For your Olimar benefit, know what a Dragonic Reverse is. This sexy little technique is usually combined with D-Smash (what I’ve personally had done to me) and is used to execute their Smash attacks faster than normal. To me it seems something like a wave dash. (Forgive me if I’m wrong)

Karamity's Dragonic Reverse Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8x1ErhiwP4&feature=related

Forewarning some will try to Egg Lay to DSmash. Kills all of our Pikmin except for Purple and sometimes blue. Just keep that in mind.


How to Win:
Gee - Are - Aye - Bee Him. or Her. or It. :/ . Grab, and Grab, and Grab. We outrange him on all but one of our grabs (here's looking at you Purple) and he is sooo susceptible to DThrow grab combo's it's kinda lolish. Oh and on a different note if you didn't need a reason to learn your Pivot Grab before... this is a match- up that will make you go home and practice it for at least an hour. It's a good part of our game because we are going to need to be under Yoshi most of the match. You want to be under him when he performs his aerials because most likely he is going to Bair, or Dair. With a Dair run to the other side and Pivot Grab. Bair the same but you might want to overshoot where you Pivot because retreating Bairs is one of the main way Yoshi attacks.

Keep your U Smash (unless your on Olimar's Mansion) and/or D Smash Fresh. If this mean going out of your way to use different moves (tilts, jabs, aerials) then do so. We have the benefit of killing faster than Yoshi does on us, and keeping those moves fresh is a great way of keeping it that way. You diminish your attacks too much and you’re at a huge disadvantage.

When Yoshi is on the ledge start throwing Pikmin. No not all of them keep at least 2 - 3 on you, but Yeah start chuckin. It's either gonna keep racking up damage until Yoshi throws an egg and then you repeat, or he's gonna get off the edge and do a laggy attack and you got back to the first thing I said in How to win.

Live under him. Utilt has priority so use that to rack up damage. Also we are most likely going to kill with USmash, just know when to use it. If there are going for a Bair either wait it out if it's a full hop, wait for them to land, or move to the opposite side of the tail and wait a bit before you do it there.

Stages:

Luigi's my bad Olimar's Mansion. If you main Olimar you should know why. Yes Bair cancels our little beast out but even if they tech it there's no time for them to do anything and we are right back at it. Shhh it's an Olimar Secret.

Battlefield: You know you love it. There's no room to camp anyway so this stage should get it out of your mind more. Also this is one of our better stage in general, so you shouldn't have too many problems here.

Ohh if the Yoshi likes to Spam Egg toss take him to Halberd and Stay under the platform :D .
If you don't believe me PRiDE told someone that was the best counter pick they had ever had took out on him. Not gonna say any names though .

 

[Puddin]

I had trouble with Yoshi on Battlefield, primarily because he would use eggs to try and stop me from camping so I would have to jump to avoid them and everyone knows how much Yoshi ***** Olimar in the air... it never really looked good But I did win =P

I love this matchup because it gets a lot of good use out of Yoshi's "bad" (situational) moves like Egg Lay and Egg Roll. It's also pretty fun to do things like outcamping one of the best campers in the game.

Yoshi's Egg Roll is easy to grab out of, especially with Olimars grab range and how predictable the egg roll is.

 

[Mmac]

Ok no offence here but this makes me think that you haven't even played the match up and you’re going on what you've heard.
Yes Egg Lay to Dmash kills all of our Pikmin (like I said in another thread except Purple an sometimes Blue, and this only works when we are on the ground.)
Do you have any idea how fast we can pull out 6 Pikmin? I think my man Dan (lol rhymeZ) said someting like 1.4 Seconds. I mean like c'mon 1.4 Seconds there isn't much time to do anything with that.. Sometimes I even pluck 6 before my invincibility runs off. Also you have to be relatively close for Egg Lay, Inside grab range so I don't know if you want to do this. Also Alot of users suspect an Olimar to pluck 6 as soon as he loses a stock. Some Olimainers won't even pluck 6. We will do 3 (3 Pikmin is about less than a second me tinks) and Punish you for daring to be so close to us. D Throw grab combo's when Yoshi(or pretty much any character) are bad. .

Ok, I'm not an Idiot, so don't treat me like one. You also forgot to calculate the time you have to get on the ground to do so. Not to mention that you'll eat out more time if you overdo it and press B more than 6 Times. I know it's fast, but I don't think it's fast enough if you go for all 6 (Unless you are on the stage where the respawn is close to a platform, Like Battlefield)

Also:

- Like I said, Eggroll as an Attack = Bad. Eggroll as a Counter Spam = Good. Just don't follow it through

- Bair beats out EVERY Pikmin Based attack (Except Grabs and UpB), and Uair beats out Dair. The only thing I'm not sure of is Uair. Yoshi's Nair works well too

- I'm not sure about Olimar Pivot Grab, But Yoshi can actually beat out Olimar's Regular Grabs with his Running Grab (Through Speed, not Range).

- Yoshi can escape the Dthrow Combo. He'll still do quite a chunk of damage, but you won't be able to do a full one (Or else the Olimar's I've played suck at it or something)

- Trying to Match Yoshi in the air is a BAD Idea.

- Yoshi can still hit you from underneath the platform on Halberd, all he needs to do is just don't Throw Eggs at full Power

And that's pretty much all I can think of right now

 

[Chaco]

To add on to that wonderful colage Mmac, I would like to add that is:

-Bair to Utilt, ***** you up good!

 

[Dotcom]

Don't mean to come of ignorant or anything and apologiez if I do.
Don't want this to turn into just argument about everybody's respective mains.


Maybe I was a little over reactive but Another mainer (though it was from a different char) said something along those same lines, and it turned out not to work because they were telegraphing what they were gonna do (I think it was Zard running in for a grab) and the Olimainer Pluck Canceled F Smash and was able to D Throw combo to about 74%.
Yes it is a viable option but not something you should be AIMING to do.

We have wayy more options than to just stand there and pluck 6 with you standing and waiting right in front of us.
We could either A) Pluck 2-3 (there's even a Unolimar who goes for one because that's how he prefers to play, there's only one of him though digressing again) which is takes less than a second. Even added from FinalD the time it takes to land and pluck three the invincibilty frames still have not ran out. Or We have the option to Pluck Cancel. Pluck Cancel = Pluck + C Stick in any direction and the pluck is cancelled( we can do this when we have No Pikmin i.e. the setup you stated) this gives you not only a good amount of damage, space enough for us to pluck 5 more without worry.

Oh yeah you guy's Bair to like Ftilt or Utilt is awesome i got setup with the Utilt into a full air. Soo much damage XD.
ww
yet again not insulting anyone's intelligence, just a statement.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Looking at most of the Yoshi users posts saying, stuff like "outcamp", "shut down Oli's camping game" as well as "kill all the pikmin on or around Yoshi", it would be safe to assume that the Olimar's you play or have seen play do nothing but Spam Side B? Maybe I’m a little over assumptions but I mean c'mon do you think Olimar is good because of his Over B alone..? Short answer NO.

So... if Yoshi doesn't enable Olimar to use his normal spamming move, I don't see how that's much different from shutting down his camping game. This is one of the few matchups where Yoshi can afford to approach, something he hates doing at pretty much any other time.

And yes, like Mmac said, good Yoshis don't spam egg roll in this matchup, just as good Olis don't spam Pikmin throw. But you would admit that, besides that, there are points in which it's good to throw a Pikmin or two. As such, there are points in which it's good to egg roll. Neither attack is completely useless, Yoshi just happens to be able to deal with the other less used move better than vice versa.

 

[asob4]

we can still just run around throwing pikmin here and there :/

 

[Dotcom]

In all the matchups iv'e had with PRiDE I dpn't recall him ever egg rolling. Maybe i'm wrong my memory sucks but ..no yeah i'm right. In all of our matches and some other matches iv'e watched of his he never Egg Rolled.

Do you guys have any ideas on which stage we would take you for our advantage. And Vice versa which stage you would perfer to take us too?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yoshi would probably counterpick on a non-FD stage, just to slow down your camping. He would also choose a smaller stage so as to KO you faster. So his choices would be Smashville, Lylat, and Yoshi's.
Oli would probably want the exact opposite.

 

[asob4]

all those stages are good for oli
i counterpick lylat usually

only if weegee's is banned of course ^^

 

[Dotcom]

it's not Weege's. It's Olee's. But that's a good counter.
Also battlefield, if you din't "do nuffin but Spam Over B Yo"

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I think were looking at either neutral or yoshi advantage???
Just wondering how the discussion is currently going.

 

[Snail]

I think were looking at either neutral or yoshi advantage???
Just wondering how the discussion is currently going.

Probably 60/40 Yoshi.