Dotcom
Smash Lord
Yes 60/40 Yoshi.
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~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~
- Thread starter DanGR
- Start date
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Nice avatar. Haha pointless spam.
So what are all of Yoshi's Advantages and how do we beat him?
asob4
Smash Champion
i don't think it's really that bad, but i lack good yoshi practice.
i had my friend play yoshi and try to be good and do bair combo's but i was able to overcome him
i had my friend play yoshi and try to be good and do bair combo's but i was able to overcome him
Mmac
Smash Lord
asob, Yoshi's isn't a character someone can just pick up and play in about 10 seconds.
I really want to play some Olimars though....
I really want to play some Olimars though....
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Lol, I gotta send you a couple vids.
Hai Im Fearless
Smash Lord
You're all wrong.
Olimar has complete advantage over Yoshi.
I played Pride (USA's best Yoshi) at Fast1 in the loser's bracket. I 2-0'd him, 2 stocking him each game.
There is a specific formula to beat Yoshi, you just have to realize how easy it is.
It is -ALL- about the shield grab.
Yoshi will approach with some arial (because if he approaches any way on the ground, you will just shield grab him there, or shield dsmash shield usmash whatever). After he does this arial, he will do something immediatly after, in an attempt to throw you off.
All you have to do to beat Yoshi is let him do his arial, let him follow up with whatever move it is (dtilt, ftilt, whatever), and then shieldgrab.
I did this over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and there was 0 ways in which pride could approach me. It was really that easy. It's 60\40 olimar, without any doubts in my head.
edit : Against egg, spot dodge it as it comes at you, and when it's slowly turning around, run up and up smash it. Worked every time. He only attempted to egg me 2 times before realizing this.
Olimar has complete advantage over Yoshi.
I played Pride (USA's best Yoshi) at Fast1 in the loser's bracket. I 2-0'd him, 2 stocking him each game.
There is a specific formula to beat Yoshi, you just have to realize how easy it is.
It is -ALL- about the shield grab.
Yoshi will approach with some arial (because if he approaches any way on the ground, you will just shield grab him there, or shield dsmash shield usmash whatever). After he does this arial, he will do something immediatly after, in an attempt to throw you off.
All you have to do to beat Yoshi is let him do his arial, let him follow up with whatever move it is (dtilt, ftilt, whatever), and then shieldgrab.
I did this over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and there was 0 ways in which pride could approach me. It was really that easy. It's 60\40 olimar, without any doubts in my head.
edit : Against egg, spot dodge it as it comes at you, and when it's slowly turning around, run up and up smash it. Worked every time. He only attempted to egg me 2 times before realizing this.
Mmac
Smash Lord
If he just did the same thing over and over and over again for 2 straight games.... then that doesn't sound like Pride at all....
Dotcom
Smash Lord
... I've beaten Pride too :/
and it's usually not that easy.
55 - 45. Yoshi.
... and you didn't even say anything about the pivot grab, something Pride usually does very well when playing at his best.
and it's usually not that easy.
55 - 45. Yoshi.
... and you didn't even say anything about the pivot grab, something Pride usually does very well when playing at his best.
Mmac
Smash Lord
From what I concluded from my games with Dan, It seems that if Yoshi isn't careful enough, He will be punished greatly. However, the same can be said to Olimar, especially if he only has 0-2 Pikmin on him. Yoshi also has better moves that get through Olimar's moves well, and Dair's can be a huge threat to Olimar when recovering.
Also, EggLay could help alot, but I never use it. I don't know when and where to use it so I can't really say. EggRoll still helps alot, you just need to use it when you know you are going to catch Olimar off guard, and it's pretty hard to punish if he knows how to use it (And I use it alot. Kinda strange when most people say that EggRoll is the more useless move, but I don't think it's useless at all).
I still think the Matchup is 6:4 Yoshi. However, if he doesn't know the matchup well, then he's probably going to get beaten bad (Dan completely owned me in the first few games :S)
Also, EggLay could help alot, but I never use it. I don't know when and where to use it so I can't really say. EggRoll still helps alot, you just need to use it when you know you are going to catch Olimar off guard, and it's pretty hard to punish if he knows how to use it (And I use it alot. Kinda strange when most people say that EggRoll is the more useless move, but I don't think it's useless at all).
I still think the Matchup is 6:4 Yoshi. However, if he doesn't know the matchup well, then he's probably going to get beaten bad (Dan completely owned me in the first few games :S)
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
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You were trying those first couple matches? I thought you were sandbagging. lol. Over time though, you beat me much more than I beat you. I wish I could get some offline matches against you. Online feels so sticky. You know how that is. :/
I disagree with shieldgrabbing yoshi. If he spaces well, you shouldn't be able to shield any attacks and get a grab off. His jab is much faster than our grab btw.
Everyone- I've decided that next week's character will be Wolf. I personally don't have any problems with him, but some Olimar's do. We'll start on monday. We're still on Yoshi until then.
I disagree with shieldgrabbing yoshi. If he spaces well, you shouldn't be able to shield any attacks and get a grab off. His jab is much faster than our grab btw.
Everyone- I've decided that next week's character will be Wolf. I personally don't have any problems with him, but some Olimar's do. We'll start on monday. We're still on Yoshi until then.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Well... Kinda....
I was out of focus in those first few.... Plus I haven't really played an Olimar in a month....
And yeah, Online blows when you need split second reactions. I almost aways pressed Airdodge, but I always got hit by your Usmashes >_<
I was out of focus in those first few.... Plus I haven't really played an Olimar in a month....
And yeah, Online blows when you need split second reactions. I almost aways pressed Airdodge, but I always got hit by your Usmashes >_<
Hai Im Fearless
Smash Lord
You wait for the jab, and shield grab after he jabs...
Pride is an amazing spacer, ask anyone that's played him.
He's one of the better brawl players I've played, but Olimar has advantage.
As for wolf -> If the wolf can space back airs properly (like our best wolf player), there's no way Olimar can approach. I've tried many things in many friendlies (he's a good friend of mine), and I'm done trying. I picked up metaknight for the first time and went even with him, so yeah. This is a game of matchups.
Snail
Smash Lord
Wolf is annoying as hell. Blaster spam is frustrating, approach from the air and you'll get shieldgrabbed, land out of grab range and get Fsmashed. There's just no way, apparently... I switch to Kirby for Wolf but I'd love to know how to beat him with Oli >_<
Excellence
Smash Champion
I had so many problems with the Wolf I played yesterday, I couldn't beat him more than once even after deciphering his entire gameplan (the match went 1 - 6 in his favor). The number of "F Bombs" and other swears of my choosing was indeed steep during these matches.
The match starts off with Wolf moving just into range to keep blaster effective and push you off the ledge. I tried Powershielding and get Fsmashes which on occasion went through my shield and left Wolf on my other side, then he followed up with Dsmash which is unbelievably fast. For anyone who's thinking it, don't try and bait a good Wolf to use the reflector, you don't have enough time to get to him - I tried, I failed. Nair kills Pikmin and lands lagless so that he can use Dsmash for the KO, which Bair can be used to ledgeguard if he doesn't KO you.
Approaching from the air worked maybe three times before he figured out what I was doing. I suggest dropping on his shield using Nair because most Wolfs don't know when it ends and will fail in trying to shield grab, at which point KO that sucker!
The toughest thing for me was getting back from the ledge, because I was dumbfounded at how he knew what I was doing. He spaced out so I would get hit with blast trying to jump up or off. Coming in with a roll got me smashed. About the only thing that worked was timing a powershield so that his blaster would hit, but then he'd just Fsmash and follow-up either pushing me back off or allowing me to escape.
Hitting him with well-timed purple Pikmin also worked, but it wasn't reliable because I rarely had them.
I hate this match-up almost as much as I hate ROB, I'm just going to stamp Meta Knight on it and call it a day.
The match starts off with Wolf moving just into range to keep blaster effective and push you off the ledge. I tried Powershielding and get Fsmashes which on occasion went through my shield and left Wolf on my other side, then he followed up with Dsmash which is unbelievably fast. For anyone who's thinking it, don't try and bait a good Wolf to use the reflector, you don't have enough time to get to him - I tried, I failed. Nair kills Pikmin and lands lagless so that he can use Dsmash for the KO, which Bair can be used to ledgeguard if he doesn't KO you.
Approaching from the air worked maybe three times before he figured out what I was doing. I suggest dropping on his shield using Nair because most Wolfs don't know when it ends and will fail in trying to shield grab, at which point KO that sucker!
The toughest thing for me was getting back from the ledge, because I was dumbfounded at how he knew what I was doing. He spaced out so I would get hit with blast trying to jump up or off. Coming in with a roll got me smashed. About the only thing that worked was timing a powershield so that his blaster would hit, but then he'd just Fsmash and follow-up either pushing me back off or allowing me to escape.
Hitting him with well-timed purple Pikmin also worked, but it wasn't reliable because I rarely had them.
I hate this match-up almost as much as I hate ROB, I'm just going to stamp Meta Knight on it and call it a day.
Snail
Smash Lord
And it works. Believe me, it's ten times more annoying for Olimar...
asob4
Smash Champion
i haven't had any problems with wolf ¯\(°_o)/¯
asob4
Smash Champion
i thought the DSF shrug would be a great contribution to this thread :D
it really doesn't though
i've played good wolf's and i've played spammy wolf's
i've been able to overcome them each time. the WoP is easy to get out of with a WAC and the lazers are easy to avoid
it really doesn't though
i've played good wolf's and i've played spammy wolf's
i've been able to overcome them each time. the WoP is easy to get out of with a WAC and the lazers are easy to avoid
Lasers are easy to avoid? What are you gonna do against them?
The cancel garbs, they cancel fsmash, the cancel pikmin throw...you can't duck under them or SH over them (too large hitbox). Yeah you can just airdodge or perfect shield them. You're not gonna win the battle like that
The cancel garbs, they cancel fsmash, the cancel pikmin throw...you can't duck under them or SH over them (too large hitbox). Yeah you can just airdodge or perfect shield them. You're not gonna win the battle like that
Snail
Smash Lord
Err ._. How do you avoid them then? Because I can't do it.
I've beaten spammy Wolves, but it usually comes down to jumping over lasers and spam sideB until I get a purple pikmin, toss it at Wolfs face, get a few quick hits in and start over >_<
asob4
Smash Champion
really? airdodge/power shield through them or spam pikmin. as they walk back they stop lazers
easiest way is just go to a platform stage :D lol
i really have never had a problem with a wolf spamming lazers
it doesn't disrupt me at all
and once i get a single grab in it's pretty much death for the wolf
I WANNA PLAY GERM!!! :[
easiest way is just go to a platform stage :D lol
i really have never had a problem with a wolf spamming lazers
it doesn't disrupt me at all
and once i get a single grab in it's pretty much death for the wolf
I WANNA PLAY GERM!!! :[
Awex
Smash Lord
From my experience blaster spam is more frustrating than destructive. Wolf's priority is more scary than his blaster.
You can jump over the blaster. Full hop. Really, you just have to avoid flat stages and places without platforms and blaster spam is far less annoying.
Once you get in there, lead with a nair to stop wolf's higher priority attacks and keep the pressure on. Giving a wolf his spacing is really really dumb.
Use up smash to combo and save down smash as a KO move. Wolf's recovery will lead to some earlier % KOs from the angle of a good down smash.
I'm 1-1 with wolves in tournament, but 1-0 with Olimar. (I failed with ICs vs Germ ;x) It's a difficult matchup, but not in wolf's favor. 50/50 I say.
You can jump over the blaster. Full hop. Really, you just have to avoid flat stages and places without platforms and blaster spam is far less annoying.
Once you get in there, lead with a nair to stop wolf's higher priority attacks and keep the pressure on. Giving a wolf his spacing is really really dumb.
Use up smash to combo and save down smash as a KO move. Wolf's recovery will lead to some earlier % KOs from the angle of a good down smash.
I'm 1-1 with wolves in tournament, but 1-0 with Olimar. (I failed with ICs vs Germ ;x) It's a difficult matchup, but not in wolf's favor. 50/50 I say.
Snail
Smash Lord
Yeah it's a lot easier on platform stages o.o
I guess I'll start learning to powershield then... Hard as hell on Wifi but whatever.
PhoenixAlpha
Smash Journeyman
I just played some more matches w/ my roommate to keep an eye on what was working and what wasn't.
Blasters pretty much force the approach since Olimar gets stifled pretty bad by them.
Yellow pikmin seem to hold up best against the blasters.
Approaching Wolf is really hard for me. It appears that his Fsmash outprioritizes mine and the grabs get stopped too easily. His smashes in general are too fast to defend against. Getting Wolf into the air (specifically above you) seems to be the best thing since it allows for Uair and Usmash.
I'm not used to doing Nair, so I'm trying to incorporate that into fighting Wolf.
My biggest issue is that grabs, camping, and the Fsmash are all harder to do/less effective against Wolf. It looks like the best range to be is point-blank, but I could be wrong about that.
Blasters pretty much force the approach since Olimar gets stifled pretty bad by them.
Yellow pikmin seem to hold up best against the blasters.
Approaching Wolf is really hard for me. It appears that his Fsmash outprioritizes mine and the grabs get stopped too easily. His smashes in general are too fast to defend against. Getting Wolf into the air (specifically above you) seems to be the best thing since it allows for Uair and Usmash.
I'm not used to doing Nair, so I'm trying to incorporate that into fighting Wolf.
My biggest issue is that grabs, camping, and the Fsmash are all harder to do/less effective against Wolf. It looks like the best range to be is point-blank, but I could be wrong about that.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
I've been cleaning up. sowy. ;( I actually started on Zero Suit today. I guess I can finish it right now. There's not much left. In about an hour it'll be updated.
For Wolf's bair wall, just WAC>land behind him>Dsmash. It should work well.
For Wolf's bair wall, just WAC>land behind him>Dsmash. It should work well.
I would have contributed to the Wolf week by now but I have little to no experience against Wolf, and have only fought one once against my friend the Brawl Messiah who can magically beat me with anyone he uses and only used Wolf for a short time.
In fact all I really know about Wolf is anything posted on his page on the Dojo... Of course this is an under-exaggeration but not by much.
His lasers are the slowest of the three Space Furries, but also the most powerful and with the most stun/knockback they are a force to be reckoned with (For Olimar anyway) The slow pace of Wolf's lasers make them easy to roll past, however the bayonette type thing on the end of Wolf's gun makes it hard to stop rolling close enough to him and pull off an attack afterwards with him still spamming even though you are passing his lasers.
Short Hoping does get you high enough to get over the lasers, but doesn't give you a lot of options afterwards because it just barely gets you over and unless you jump again, which is like doing a full jump in the first place, you won't get over the next inevitable laser. But as mentioned in previous posts the Wolf will stop spamming if you Full Jump and prepare to attack. You could WAC his attack and try to punish it but since most of Wolfs attacks Out Prioritize Olimars chances are this will not work.
Listen to me, and listen well Olimars Neutral Air and Utilt are your new best friends when it comes to the match up. They out prioritize almost every single move in Wolfs arsenal of Fast Long Ranged moves. From his Smash attacks (yes all of them) to his tilts (again yes all) but not his Jab, so watch out for that especially since it has good knockback (for a jab) use them as a substitute for your Whistle if you need to, it doesn't matter just USE THEM.
So let me summarize the above three paragraphs. Lasers are ****. Utilt and Nair **** Wolf. (For the most part)
P.S. I just had a quick thought, but I'm sure you all remember (but forgot) how they changed the name of the boards from Pikmin and Olimar to just Olimar. Which means it used to be in the P's. But does anyone think it would be funny if an old member of the Olimar boards went to the P's didn't see "Pikmin and Olimar" and thought they had deleted it or something? You know never thought to check the O's or maybe even C's for "Captain Olimar" I just thought it would be funny.
*Gives self pat on the back for having the largest post on Wolf but the least experience with said character.
That is what I said in two paragraphs...in just one sentence.
In fact all I really know about Wolf is anything posted on his page on the Dojo... Of course this is an under-exaggeration but not by much.
His lasers are the slowest of the three Space Furries, but also the most powerful and with the most stun/knockback they are a force to be reckoned with (For Olimar anyway) The slow pace of Wolf's lasers make them easy to roll past, however the bayonette type thing on the end of Wolf's gun makes it hard to stop rolling close enough to him and pull off an attack afterwards with him still spamming even though you are passing his lasers.
Short Hoping does get you high enough to get over the lasers, but doesn't give you a lot of options afterwards because it just barely gets you over and unless you jump again, which is like doing a full jump in the first place, you won't get over the next inevitable laser. But as mentioned in previous posts the Wolf will stop spamming if you Full Jump and prepare to attack. You could WAC his attack and try to punish it but since most of Wolfs attacks Out Prioritize Olimars chances are this will not work.
Listen to me, and listen well Olimars Neutral Air and Utilt are your new best friends when it comes to the match up. They out prioritize almost every single move in Wolfs arsenal of Fast Long Ranged moves. From his Smash attacks (yes all of them) to his tilts (again yes all) but not his Jab, so watch out for that especially since it has good knockback (for a jab) use them as a substitute for your Whistle if you need to, it doesn't matter just USE THEM.
So let me summarize the above three paragraphs. Lasers are ****. Utilt and Nair **** Wolf. (For the most part)
P.S. I just had a quick thought, but I'm sure you all remember (but forgot) how they changed the name of the boards from Pikmin and Olimar to just Olimar. Which means it used to be in the P's. But does anyone think it would be funny if an old member of the Olimar boards went to the P's didn't see "Pikmin and Olimar" and thought they had deleted it or something? You know never thought to check the O's or maybe even C's for "Captain Olimar" I just thought it would be funny.
*Gives self pat on the back for having the largest post on Wolf but the least experience with said character.
Don't hate on Asob lol.
That is what I said in two paragraphs...in just one sentence.
Excellence
Smash Champion
Play a good Wolf and see if you still have no trouble. -_- The match-up is in his favor for a reason(s). But mostly laser.
Jadedlink
Smash Apprentice
My most hated match up. Fsmash stops nearly everything of olimar's. Wolf's laser not only helps stop pikmin spam, but also easily kills any latched pikmin without having to waste any other move. (Not sure about all latch areas) Wolf's lasers also sends thrown pikmin away from Olimar. I believe they fly up when hit with the laser, but i'm not too sure. (Except yellows)
Wolf's reflector works great against Olimar too. Not only to reflect pikmin, but also up close, because of the stun effects and knockback.
I really don't have much to say on Olimar's behalf. Yellow pikmin absorb the lasers when being thrown and walking back. Throw a few pikmin short so they can help stop the lasers when walking back. Try not to use fsmash too much, since his fsmash goes through it and hits Olimar. It has been a while since I played a good wolf. I need to find one.
Wolf's reflector works great against Olimar too. Not only to reflect pikmin, but also up close, because of the stun effects and knockback.
I really don't have much to say on Olimar's behalf. Yellow pikmin absorb the lasers when being thrown and walking back. Throw a few pikmin short so they can help stop the lasers when walking back. Try not to use fsmash too much, since his fsmash goes through it and hits Olimar. It has been a while since I played a good wolf. I need to find one.
asob4
Smash Champion
i've played quite a few good wolf's and i've always managed to come out on top, even on their counter picks
it's always 2-0 :/
i do wanna play germ though, really bad >_<
and honestly, i'm just too lazy to explain in big long paragraphs
short, simple, and to the point is what i like ^^
it's always 2-0 :/
i do wanna play germ though, really bad >_<
and honestly, i'm just too lazy to explain in big long paragraphs
short, simple, and to the point is what i like ^^
snadmonkey
Smash Journeyman
I have beaten all the top olimars I've played. At first I was total nub to the matchup, but I've had some practice and now do not fear them at all. On the contrary to most wolfs i'm 100% offensive against olimar. Its just to ez against someone who tries to rely on grab and smashes. Land behind to reverse pivot grab works so well its not even funny. Jabs also give him trouble. Once oli is on the ground you have a large advantage, mix up the approachs betwene jabs and grabs and olimar will be force to fight you in the air some and wolf will have the advantage. If I really wanna camp olimar I can though, especially since wolf can simply reflect the pikmin back at olimar. But ya shop fair to reverse pivot grab and shop air dodge to grab really seem to give olimar lots of fits, and if he side steps grab wolf can usually jab him before being countered. Then mixup ur post throw follow ups with fsmash and downsmash and back air and you should win. Wolf doesn't need to outcamp olimar to win.
BTW, I have fought several olimars considered very good so don't even start that only works on nub olimar ****.
BTW, I have fought several olimars considered very good so don't even start that only works on nub olimar ****.
Snad is one of, if not the best Wolf I have ever played. He knows what hes talking about. Thnx for the info Snad.
OlimarFan
Smash Ace
Did you lose to him?
Dotcom
Smash Lord
Who are they just asking?
Iv'e never fought a decent wolf in real life.
and no matter what anyone says wifi isn't a true test of skill.
Iv'e never fought a decent wolf in real life.
and no matter what anyone says wifi isn't a true test of skill.
Snail
Smash Lord
I know, I know. But fighting people on Wifi does give you a general idea of the matchup. And I have a hell of a hard time against spammy Wolves :D
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