~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[BlackWaltzX]

I always thought we outspammed Falco. Severely. Like.. I can't see the problem that you all appear to have with falco. His B is his greatest weakness against us. Hell, When we charge a smash attack, our pikmin tank B for us! If it's yellow, it takes it to full charge and comes back all the way. Even more, if you F+B a yellow on him, ity stops B. If you toss it in front of him and let the yellow come back, you are protected at that elevation.
Wolf is the most difficult ONLY because of his B having a bayonnet thingy on it.

When they foward B, you can grab it, downsmash it, upsmash and semi-charged fsmash it, of course there maybe more, but these are the obvious.

If you latch pikmin on him while he recovers, he hits the pikmin's hit boxes, slowing him down. This makes him recover slowly and you can grab the ledge even easier.

Downsmash beats his foward smash, down smash shouldn't hit you generally...

The largest problem here is his dash attack. Which, in itself generally doesn't hit you, but, they can cancel it to an upsmash for easier kills.

Also his down+B annoys us.

How to beat him? Outspam him. If you don't know how, learn to do it better. Maybe get a yellow to be in your line and latch him. Once he stops shooting, grab him or whatever.


Also, watch out for his jab.

 

[asob4]

it's not the lasers that are the real problem, as those can be stopped, but the annoying *** shine that reflects the whole time it's out and stops our pikmin from working.
i played a campy falco and all he did was SHDL > shine
it was the worst thing imaginable and i lost due to being frustrated at how gay he was being. anything to win my.....-grumblegrumble- but yeah
the shine is the main problem, everything else is easy.
pray he takes you to jungle japes. as long as you control either the center or the right side of the stage you can't lose. just make sure you know how to get out of the chain grab with ease

 

[DanGR]

It's kinda like ness v zelda. Neither wins the camp war b/c din's can be absorbed and pikfire can be reflected. It's more about spacing well than it is approaching. If you can space unpunishable fsmashes and grabs perfectly throughout the match, you should do well overall.

 

[Redemption]

In the end, he can reflect your pikmin onto to you, but you have to avoid his laser. Advantage falco in the camping department. As an Olimar, you alsmot have to approach to within Fsmash range, and then play the regular spacing Olimar. The second he is far from you, you are in deep water.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I didn't read all the posts but I just wanted to throw out that a Down throw at 0% can be done at least twice before Falco can DI out of it. If Falco does DI out of it I think that the best idea would be to run and UP smash or run behind and pivot grab. Just my two cents. Also read the latch thread I made. Latching a Yellow correctly prevents lasers and Yellows can be Forward smashed through the lasers.

 

[asob4]

you can dthrow > dthrow > fair > dthrow > up smash > up air > up air/b
you can do that on all spacies, sometimes more dthrows. especially in wolf's case >=] it's a chain grab to ~30% hehe

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I just did a quick search for Olimar vs. Kirby discussion, and I found nothing in this thread. I was helping a fellow Olimar player (Snail) in another thread, and this is what I put for approaching against Kirby. You are absolutely encouraged to criticize this suggestion (I WANT it.). I am obviously not an Olimar player, so it is hard to give advice FOR an Olimar player BY a Kirby player in this match-up. I would be REALLY surprised if all of you agreed to this. I also directed his attention to this thread.

...So...anyway...

Snail:

Olimar vs Kirby (an approach)

NEVER approach Kirby. Kirby has so many defensive options against Olimar, it is not funny. So I will not even bother discussing how to approach Kirby.

So...

Camping is still your best bet. This forces Kirby to approach, and it is better than Olimar approaching Kirby. Keep both feet on the ground, since Olimar loses against Kirby in the air. Probably your best moves for Kirby's non short-hopped aerial approaches are (sliding) u-smash, (short hopped) u-air, and Pikmin Chain (whatever it is called; up-B) against Kirby.

Try pivoting and dash-dancing to keep Kirby guessing (especially against short-hopped b/f-air approaches) and try to be next to him near the end of his aerials (aerial-move DI {e.g. a b-air moving towards Olimar} for Kirby is least effective and cool-down lag). Learn Kirby's spacing so you can spot opportunities for a shield grab (whenever Kirby fails his spacing). Essentially, keep Olimar like an anti-air gun.

Against Kirby's ground approach, if you have the proper pikmin up front, you should probably grab. Olimar should also spam Pikmin Throw. Kirby will:
1. Go into an aerial approach (I discussed how to stop)
2. Roll (and you punish)
3. Dashing Shield slide (you try a grab or d-smash/tilt)
4. F-tilt (try another Pikmin throw, or grab/f-tilt)
5. Final Cutter (shield it if from afar, try a sliding u-smash if close)
6. SHAD (move backwards, since Kirby will input a buffered f-smash)


I think as a rule of thumb, keep Kirby in the air, up-throw when you grab, and stay in the middle of the stage. I think it is unusually important for this fight to learn the Kirby's style (so you can read his movements and punish AKA mindgames) for his approaching.

Choose platform stages like Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Smashville (easier to keep Kirby above you and read his tech if he is stuck on a platform above; watch out for platform-dropped aerials), ban Final Destination (harder to keep Kirby above you).

Sounds hard? Well, it is in Kirby's favor. Still winnable, though.

Slightly (60-40) in Kirby's favor, I should have wrote...oh well. I shall check back and gather information.

 

[DanGR]

The week is almost over. What do y'all think should be the next matchup? Kirby sound good?

 

[asob4]

finally you helped on the AiB thread >_>
well we can use the numbers from that thread and discuss them further here
crash course match ups ftw

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I just did a quick search for Olimar vs. Kirby discussion, and I found nothing in this thread. I was helping a fellow Olimar player (Snail) in another thread, and this is what I put for approaching against Kirby. You are absolutely encouraged to criticize this suggestion (I WANT it.). I am obviously not an Olimar player, so it is hard to give advice FOR an Olimar player BY a Kirby player in this match-up. I would be REALLY surprised if all of you agreed to this. I also directed his attention to this thread.

...So...anyway...



Slightly (60-40) in Kirby's favor, I should have wrote...oh well. I shall check back and gather information.

Okay I have a problem with this. I have never been approached by a Kirby outside of him trying to work his chain grab magic.

IF you camp then you are going to have to wait out and it's a painful match. Nothing but bair from Kirby and me throwing pikmin trying to latch one so I can have a shot at him with a real move.

Olimar can't be grounded against kirby, unless you plan on running underneath him, which I advise against.

honestly this match up is just a pain in general. Save your up smash until Kirby is over 85% then it's guaranteed unless its a white pikmin. I see where snail comes from but I disagree. Final D is where I would take Kirby, the more he stays in the air the more I'm familiar with how the match will be.

 

[DanGR]

finally you helped on the AiB thread >_>
well we can use the numbers from that thread and discuss them further here
crash course match ups ftw

yah, I got kinda annoyed the way it was going over there... anyways, I'd rather talk about each matchup separate from the numbers. This is more of a matchup help thread, not a matchup chart. get what I'm sayin'? We could, I guess, but I think it'd need a whole new thread separate from this one.

about kirby

I agree with you man. you can't just sit there. you have to be VERY mobile and move around a lot. In my experience, it's more about punishing spacing errors than anything else. Pivot grabs, and well spaced fsmashes work well to accomplish this.

Everyone-kirby sound good for next week?

 

[asob4]

there were some *******s but up until they came everything went just fine. i've been having to do all the match ups pretty much by myself and through only my own experiences. mr. x was awol >_>
well when we're going over it the way we are right now, like each week = character, the numbers play a rather large role as we can discuss how the actual match up is relative to the numbers.
if we were to do a separate match up help thread then the numbers wouldn't matter, but that isn't the case
either way it's all good to me ^^

 

[DanGR]

OH!, you mean take the numbers they got over there and discuss them one at a time as we move from character to character? Idk what I was thinking. sorry, that'll be good. Just be sure to bring up what they have each character change.

 

[asob4]

yes exactly lol

 

[Snail]

Kirby would be good. I have tons of trouble with him >.< Running around and staying mobile is exactly what I've been doing, but the problem is actually doing damage that way since he shakes off the pikmin extremely easily, and his aerials seem to have lots of priority x.x Camping isn't effective either, but approaching is probably even worse.

Either way, discussing Kirby here will probably help me a lot, so I vote in favor of Kirby as next week's discussion xD

 

[asob4]

never go to weegee's mansion vs kirby 0_o baaaad experience

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Dr. Hyde:
I still say camping is Olimar's better option.

My reasoning for platform stages is that I would want Kirby above me as long as possible, and platforms help.

I want more comments on this!

 

[Dr. Hyde]

never go to weegee's mansion vs kirby 0_o baaaad experience

Umm you mean Olimar's mansion, and no, the stage is perfect for dealing with Kirby. Pillar's that extend the time moves are out when they hit, cielings that let you chain up smashes.
I disagree

Kirby would be good. I have tons of trouble with him >.< Running around and staying mobile is exactly what I've been doing, but the problem is actually doing damage that way since he shakes off the pikmin extremely easily, and his aerials seem to have lots of priority x.x Camping isn't effective either, but approaching is probably even worse.

Either way, discussing Kirby here will probably help me a lot, so I vote in favor of Kirby as next week's discussion xD

Why have you never posted in the Olimar boards?

Dr. Hyde:
I still say camping is Olimar's better option.

My reasoning for platform stages is that I would want Kirby above me as long as possible, and platforms help.

I want more comments on this!

I'm not saying don't camp, I'm just saying be very mobile while doing it. I go from one side of FD to the other in like three throws. Geh as heck but it works and my opponent agree that if he hits me off I'm a goner. I can see how platforms help but I prefer a wide stage and Battlefield is more of a "brawl' stage than a camp stage imo

 

[DanGR]

if you haven't noticed, this week is kirby's week. I'll update the OP.

 

[asob4]

you haven't played a kirby who knows weegee's very well o_0
every kirby i've ever played loves that stage. the solid platforms allow him to hover right above you head, out of range of everything but up smash/b/tilt, and attack. and even then he can avoid your attacks like the plague. don't get caught in an up air chain, it's horrible.
though the minute you get an up smash it's over ^^

 

[Puddin]

Awww, I was gone all weekend and couldn't get a final say on Falco. Oh well, I have to be honest I have never fought a good Kirby. The only Kirby I have ever fought is a friend of mine who was playing him for the hell of it so I have absolutely no experience with him.

But like I said I have never played Kirby so I don't really know their play style but Kirby with Pikmin power is an annoying thing because the Pikmin hit you and give Kirby and opening, so don't let him suck you up?

Well I did my part XD seriously don't expect much from me this week I could test the priority I guess.

 

[DanGR]

you can still give your input on the falco matchup if you want to. I haven't written the summary yet.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

My arrival must be timed well to get into a Kirby discussion. The SSBB Kirby community rates this fight as 60:40 (Kirby's favor).

you haven't played a kirby who knows weegee's very well o_0
every kirby i've ever played loves that stage. the solid platforms allow him to hover right above you head, out of range of everything but up smash/b/tilt, and attack. and even then he can avoid your attacks like the plague. don't get caught in an up air chain, it's horrible.
though the minute you get an up smash it's over ^^

I never heard of a SSBB Kirby player play on that stage or suggest it...I guess you are right about the u-smash part, though.

That reminds me: I need to pay a visit to SSBB Stage Discussion.


Dr. Hyde:

I can also see how Final Destination can work for an Olimar. I would just prefer to try and keep Kirby above the stage for a chance at a shield grab (during a platform-drop {back aerial}) or maybe a u-smash. I do realize this is a double-edged sword against Olimar if the roles were reversed (an aerial punishment).

I am beginning to think that Olimar should take Final Destination, though.

...

I had a post about Kirby's approach; I still want more comments on it.

 

[asob4]

twilght kirby is the one who took me to weegee's and proceeded to beat me

 

[WhoseReality?]

The SSBB Kirby community rates this fight as 60:40 (Kirby's favor).

I think this depends on the Olimar's recovery ability and KO ability. As long as the Olimar knows how to make it back to the stage and is familiar enough with the matchup to perform KO moves at low percents then you could easily flip that stat.

It also helps to know that it is REALLY difficult to grab kirby out of the block before he can swing his hammer. (It was news to me considering the block was lunch time in melee.)

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Ok hearing things I don't like.

Olimar mansion = hell for Kirby, not going to explain this unless you have no common sense to stay on the bottom of the stage and set up camp. Not Vice Versa

Where Kirby does the block he is still lunch for pikmin. I know the Kirby I play will bait me to try and grab him so he just pops up and safe. If you see the block fall and hit the ground start tossing.

Tomato- I know the platforms are good for what you are mentioning but what I care about in this match up is not being touched.

See the Kirby I've played will get 36% easy with the grab @0%. The only way for me to avoid this is to be able to not get touched by Kirby and spam pikmin.

The reason, the ONLY reason, I ever spam pikmin is to make the opponent do something to get them off. This way I get an approach better than a shield grab since it is an aerial most of the time.


This is the sole reason I choose FD. To stay away and not get hit.

BTW Ban Rainbow Road. Never play kirby or D3 there. its just not a fun stage from my experience.

 

[DanGR]

I'm not sure how Luigi's mansion could be any WORSE than BF or FD against Kirby. upair combos against you should happen anyways, regardless of stage. The only thing I see that would happen differently on LM than on BF or FD would be kirby having to stay near ground level, which is better than him being in the air. I'm leaning towards hyde on this one.

 

[asob4]

Ok hearing things I don't like.

Olimar mansion = hell for Kirby, not going to explain this unless you have no common sense to stay on the bottom of the stage and set up camp. Not Vice Versa

you think i didn't try to set up and control the floor? he knew exactly what he was doing and how to counter everything i did

 

[Awex]

I've played 2 Kirbys in tournament so far.

It's an interesting matchup. Pretty even but still in Olimar's favor. His priority is better than yours mostly so it's best to just space like a mofo and go for up smash kills from the ground. (out of shield is best)

Kirby's dair goes through up smash but not up air, so punish them for attempting it when you would normally running up smash with a SH uair.

Also try not to let him steal your ability, cause his pikmin spam is pretty annoying. >>

 

[Dr. Hyde]

you think i didn't try to set up and control the floor? he knew exactly what he was doing and how to counter everything i did

how did he counter you? If Kirby approaches me on the bottom of the stage I move to the 2nd floor and then drop while UP+B. I want to know what the Kirby did. This troubles me.

 

[TwilightKirby]

twilght kirby is the one who took me to weegee's and proceeded to beat me

how did he counter you? If Kirby approaches me on the bottom of the stage I move to the 2nd floor and then drop while UP+B. I want to know what the Kirby did. This troubles me.

lol so I have to say asob/skank... you were the first good olimar player i played... and yeah i had noooo clue how to play olimar until about the last stock of the third round lol.

So luigis mansion was just a pick I came up with because I had started using it for robs since it made them have difficulty killing off the top and I figured it would be the same for olimar since he had such a good upsmash, but I didn't think about how itd juggle me. I think I would pick either jungle japes or rainbow cruise next time depending on what you ban lol.

Not quite sure about the jungle japes... I think olimar wouldn't be able to recover if he missed his upb since his pikmin would all die in the water... the main reason I think about it is because of the super high ceiling though. Upwards kills wouldn't work on that stage and olimar couldn't juggle. I would have to experiment with it but rainbow cruise I'm pretty sure would work well for kirby XD

Anyways I haven't really played a good olimar besides that one match but heres what I picked up on:
Olimar probably has the best ground game out of any other character. Also Kirby can't easily approach olimar. I find the easiest way for kirby to win this is for olimar to try and approach kirby. Kirby however can approach by going at a near 45 degree angle. Pretty much the exact angle that luigis mansion let me approach from lol.

I would say that the main objective for the olimar player would be to stay one the ground since it feels like I can get bursts of damage when I get a throw off or something so that they are off the ground. Olimar can in no way compete against kirby in the air, except maybe uair vs dair.

Oh and kirby can kill Olimar really early too by just using his kill moves earlier than they would actually kill since kirby can edgeguard easily and even if olimar does manage to recover kirby can get some damage off. The kirby player can watch to see if olimar would be able to recover or not if he grabbed the ledge. If he can the kirby player can take the opportunity to get some damage on Olimar. If not kirby can hog the edge all he wants since unless he is at high damage he can easily recover from an upb spike.

Oh and Kirby spitting olimar under the stage would be certain death so I would say edgeguarding kirby would be a very bad idea. lol Kirby can inhale olimar out of all of his aerials (remember skank when you tried to aerial me three times in a row and I just inhaled you out of them every time? =P) hmm so yes kirby owns the air and olimar owns the ground. Brawl however is much more aerial based than ground based and kirby is more capable of killing olimar than vice versa, so kirby would definitely have an advantage.

Oh yeah lol skank didn't I abuse luigis mansion to knock you at downward angles and gimp you at like 30%? XD

I would like to play some good olimars though since I had nooooo clue what olimar was like when I played you lol.

 

[Puddin]

Not quite sure about the jungle japes... I think olimar wouldn't be able to recover if he missed his upb since his pikmin would all die in the water... the main reason I think about it is because of the super high ceiling though. Upwards kills wouldn't work on that stage and olimar couldn't juggle. I would have to experiment with it but rainbow cruise I'm pretty sure would work well for kirby XD

I would like to play some good olimars though since I had nooooo clue what olimar was like when I played you lol.

First things first, if Olimar falls into the water of Jungle Japes he is dead, he would not even be in the water long enough to lose any Pikmin this is definitely not a good Olimar stage. Rainbow Cruise is always a bad stage for Olimar because of the lack of grabable ledges, and various other reasons off the top of my head the moving stage hurting his camping ability.

You make Olimars Usmash seem like his only kill move albeit it is a great move Kirby and Olimar are both light characters that pack quite a punch.

This is oddly convenient because I need experience with a Kirby player and you need experience with and Olimar player, so PM me sometime and we can have some friendlies to get some experience against each others character. Maybe then I can post for Kirby!

 

[TwilightKirby]

Yeah Olimar can kill other ways but in this matchup its his best kill move... fsmash works too just not as well lol

Plus can't olimar kill off the top with throws or something? o.O haha its been awhile but I remember dying off the top the most

Anyways online doesn't count =P lol I've stopped playing wifi really cause it didn't really help me that much o.o

and I think skank is going to to Race's tourney this weekend so maybe we will play some friendlies? I needs to try out jungle japes on olimar =D lol.

 

[asob4]

haha well you handled me very well for only playing one olimar. i've been compared to mr. x hehe ^^ /arrogance
the character match up is huge obviously.
i really didn't know what to do when you got me in the juggles, i was just so amazed haha
remeber when i got you with like 10 up smashes and a down smahes for death? hmmmm lol jk
yeah i'm gonna be at races if i have a ride there hopefully which i don't see why i wouldn't
we'll settle this whole match up with some friendlies and discussion.

also, at nexus i played a kirby in doubles and i banned weegee's and he was saddened to say the least lol

oh and i'll more than likely ban cruise. but i'll also go g&w haha

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Tomato- I know the platforms are good for what you are mentioning but what I care about in this match up is not being touched.

See the Kirby I've played will get 36% easy with the grab @0%. The only way for me to avoid this is to be able to not get touched by Kirby and spam pikmin.

The reason, the ONLY reason, I ever spam pikmin is to make the opponent do something to get them off. This way I get an approach better than a shield grab since it is an aerial most of the time.


This is the sole reason I choose FD. To stay away and not get hit.

I can never combo an Olimar up to 36% from 0%. There should be enough frames in between any throw for Olimar to escape after the first throw.

Also, I have acknowledged that Final Destination is better.

I would agree that a Kirby trying to get a pikmin off would be a good time for an approach, though.

I think this depends on the Olimar's recovery ability and KO ability. As long as the Olimar knows how to make it back to the stage and is familiar enough with the matchup to perform KO moves at low percents then you could easily flip that stat.

Olimar is NOT going to recover against a good Kirby. All it takes is a good shove off the stage by Kirby, and Olimar is not returning. The other problem is that most moves Kirby has are anti-pikmin. Olimar has several assets; Kirby just has a bit more.

 

[Snail]

Why have you never posted in the Olimar boards?

I only got Brawl last week, and I'm a little shy (; I'll be posting here more though, after I get back from Berlin (13th of July).

Either way, as for stages... I haven't really been able to find anything that works in Olimar's favour. The mansion worked okay but the walls break easily and it's not much better than Battlefield or FD for me. I do best in Shadow Moses Island, (No recovery problems, Kirby's upsmash is worse than his Hammer/Fsmash, easy KO's with Usmash etc) but it's rather questionable if that stage will even be a counterpick :/

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I only got Brawl last week, and I'm a little shy (; I'll be posting here more though, after I get back from Berlin (13th of July).

Either way, as for stages... I haven't really been able to find anything that works in Olimar's favour. The mansion worked okay but the walls break easily and it's not much better than Battlefield or FD for me. I do best in Shadow Moses Island, (No recovery problems, Kirby's upsmash is worse than his Hammer/Fsmash, easy KO's with Usmash etc) but it's rather questionable if that stage will even be a counterpick :/

Oh well sorry for sounding harsh :/ I know SMI is banned. The stage is too good for Olimar.

I can never combo an Olimar up to 36% from 0%. There should be enough frames in between any throw for Olimar to escape after the first throw.

Also, I have acknowledged that Final Destination is better.

I would agree that a Kirby trying to get a pikmin off would be a good time for an approach, though.

Olimar is NOT going to recover against a good Kirby. All it takes is a good shove off the stage by Kirby, and Olimar is not returning. The other problem is that most moves Kirby has are anti-pikmin. Olimar has several assets; Kirby just has a bit more.

I'm sorry but if I miss a jumping air dodge after the down throw I get into deep trouble with Justice's Kirby, a local but good up and coming Kirby. And I completely agree with the last part about getting bumped. I tend to whistle only when I feel I'm in danger or I need a kill e.x. Kirby Forward Smashes I whistle and save my behind while I get to Up smash.

lol so I have to say asob/skank... you were the first good olimar player i played... and yeah i had noooo clue how to play olimar until about the last stock of the third round lol.

So luigis mansion was just a pick I came up with because I had started using it for robs since it made them have difficulty killing off the top and I figured it would be the same for olimar since he had such a good upsmash, but I didn't think about how itd juggle me. I think I would pick either jungle japes or rainbow cruise next time depending on what you ban lol.

Not quite sure about the jungle japes... I think olimar wouldn't be able to recover if he missed his upb since his pikmin would all die in the water... the main reason I think about it is because of the super high ceiling though. Upwards kills wouldn't work on that stage and olimar couldn't juggle. I would have to experiment with it but rainbow cruise I'm pretty sure would work well for kirby XD

Anyways I haven't really played a good olimar besides that one match but heres what I picked up on:
Olimar probably has the best ground game out of any other character. Also Kirby can't easily approach olimar. I find the easiest way for kirby to win this is for olimar to try and approach kirby. Kirby however can approach by going at a near 45 degree angle. Pretty much the exact angle that luigis mansion let me approach from lol.

I would say that the main objective for the olimar player would be to stay one the ground since it feels like I can get bursts of damage when I get a throw off or something so that they are off the ground. Olimar can in no way compete against kirby in the air, except maybe uair vs dair.

Oh and kirby can kill Olimar really early too by just using his kill moves earlier than they would actually kill since kirby can edgeguard easily and even if olimar does manage to recover kirby can get some damage off. The kirby player can watch to see if olimar would be able to recover or not if he grabbed the ledge. If he can the kirby player can take the opportunity to get some damage on Olimar. If not kirby can hog the edge all he wants since unless he is at high damage he can easily recover from an upb spike.

Oh and Kirby spitting olimar under the stage would be certain death so I would say edgeguarding kirby would be a very bad idea. lol Kirby can inhale olimar out of all of his aerials (remember skank when you tried to aerial me three times in a row and I just inhaled you out of them every time? =P) hmm so yes kirby owns the air and olimar owns the ground. Brawl however is much more aerial based than ground based and kirby is more capable of killing olimar than vice versa, so kirby would definitely have an advantage.

Oh yeah lol skank didn't I abuse luigis mansion to knock you at downward angles and gimp you at like 30%? XD

I would like to play some good olimars though since I had nooooo clue what olimar was like when I played you lol.

Yeah two things I want to say about your approach which I'm annoyed didn't get punished. Up and B. Seriously it's Olimar's counter to a Fairing Marth and Tornadoing MK. It works on Kirby. And yeah I don't ever go near the edge. And if I do it's becuase the Kirby dropped down and wants to get footstooled twice.

Also don't forget that 2 110% I'm gonna be looking throw KO you. I never use Back throw on Kirby until he's ready to die same, with Up throw. If a Olimar player saves those two throws they will kill you very easily.

The Morale of the story for Olimar never get close until it's time to kill. Have Spacing and camp wars the entire game but never up smash, the exception is the mansion, or throw back or up until Kirby is above 80% and even then only go for it when it's a sure thing. If it doesn't look like a sure thing then you don't have enough pikmin on Kirby to kill me or Kirby isn't trying to get them off.

 

[shrinkray21]

Kirby is a beast - he's a well rounded character with a great grab game - solid aerials and awesome kill moves.

1) Watch your shield grabbing - when a kirby WOP with bairs - he doesn't need to hit the ground and he'll be in grab range for a VERY VERY short time - a missed shield grab will get you hit with his next move.

2) The dair to fsmash is vicious here! Actually, just the dair in general could win the match for the kirby - shielding this move is a bad choice - roll out of it if you can - watch for the fsmash after the roll.

3) At low percents, Kirby will throw every time and go for up air - Olly cannot get out of one throw to up air - but he should never get hit with more than that - mash jump!

4) Quick kills will win this match for either side - kirby can be spiked out of his up b :D...that's just awesome and will destroy their spirit - PRACTICE THIS TECHNIQUE B/C IT WILL WIN YOU KIRBY MATCHUPS I PROMISE - I can't stress this enough - spike kirby out of his up b - like all matchups - watch for purples and up smash opportunities - but don't telegraph it.

5) Kirby can kirbicide - this can lose you matches - watch your edge game. You can also be spit out under the stage for death as well.

6) Pikmin latch "can" work but its not your best option - throw all white and a few of the others, but keep your line number high - you'll need the recovery.

 

[WhoseReality?]

Olimar is NOT going to recover against a good Kirby. All it takes is a good shove off the stage by Kirby, and Olimar is not returning. The other problem is that most moves Kirby has are anti-pikmin. Olimar has several assets; Kirby just has a bit more.

Well that's what my point about recovery was. Some Olimars can be easily edgehogged and some can't. Some kirbys can effectively edgehog and some can't. It's pretentious to say that as soon as you get an Olimar off the stage he's not coming back.

Is there such a thing as an Anti-pikmin move? Pretty much any attack will remove pikmin, and the use of most attacks will leave an opening to approach depending on spacing. I don't think Kirby has any kind of magical defense against pikmin (like MK).

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Kirby is a beast - he's a well rounded character with a great grab game - solid aerials and awesome kill moves.

1) Watch your shield grabbing - when a kirby WOP with bairs - he doesn't need to hit the ground and he'll be in grab range for a VERY VERY short time - a missed shield grab will get you hit with his next move.

2) The dair to fsmash is vicious here! Actually, just the dair in general could win the match for the kirby - shielding this move is a bad choice - roll out of it if you can - watch for the fsmash after the roll.

3) At low percents, Kirby will throw every time and go for up air - Olly cannot get out of one throw to up air - but he should never get hit with more than that - mash jump!

4) Quick kills will win this match for either side - kirby can be spiked out of his up b :D...that's just awesome and will destroy their spirit - PRACTICE THIS TECHNIQUE B/C IT WILL WIN YOU KIRBY MATCHUPS I PROMISE - I can't stress this enough - spike kirby out of his up b - like all matchups - watch for purples and up smash opportunities - but don't telegraph it.

5) Kirby can kirbicide - this can lose you matches - watch your edge game. You can also be spit out under the stage for death as well.

6) Pikmin latch "can" work but its not your best option - throw all white and a few of the others, but keep your line number high - you'll need the recovery.

My replies:
1. I guess I can agree with that. Kirby could even try to land behind Olimar and grab.
2. I think Olimar's u-air should out-prioritize Kirby's d-air, so use that instead.
3. Correct
4. Correct, although it is somewhat harder for a horizontal edge-guard for both characters.
5. Correct: Also, Kirby's (better) set-ups to Kirbycide/swallowcide: running~>short-hop~>Inhale and ledge-hop~>Inhale (just keep it in mind).
6. Pikmin Throw is the best opportunity to create an approach=probably the better option. In this fight, Olimar is in a camp war until he can catch Kirby trying to get rid of pikmin.

Well that's what my point about recovery was. Some Olimars can be easily edgehogged and some can't. Some kirbys can effectively edgehog and some can't. It's pretentious to say that as soon as you get an Olimar off the stage he's not coming back.

Is there such a thing as an Anti-pikmin move? Pretty much any attack will remove pikmin, and the use of most attacks will leave an opening to approach depending on spacing. I don't think Kirby has any kind of magical defense against pikmin (like MK).

To the first point: We are talking about what the top levels of a character are reasonably capable of and what they can do to each other (I said "against a good Kirby...good shove off the stage"). Admittedly, not every Kirby can edge-guard an Olimar, but a good Kirby is reasonably able to consistently.

I admit that the first statement was an emphasis on Kirby's edge-guarding, though.

To the second point: Kirby's attacks destory pikmin and can easily maintain spacing (such as his side aerials).