~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[Redemption]

Can we do Falco next? I seem to have A LOT of trouble with him

 

[asob4]

don't up smash under them, do up tilt/air otherwise their moves go right through yours
campy falco's are gay

 

[DanGR]

Can we do Falco next? I seem to have A LOT of trouble with him

we can talk about it on saturday. I try to update on monday.

 

[asob4]

but we have like nothing on marth yet
he needs two weeks haha

hmmm i'll try to get some input from BoA this saturday even though he plays lucario now

 

[Puddin]

Eh. Marth can't approach from the ground easily, since he will just get grabbed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Marth out-range Olimars grab? I would test it but I've been far too busy with Pikmin 2 lately... sorry I know he out-ranges Purple Pikmin, but I'm not sure about Red and Yellow. Probably not Blue and White though, but again not entirely sure.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

Olimar's grab is like 3 times the length of Marth's sword.

 

[DanGR]

I like the progress we're making!

but seriously, if you're gonna try and shieldgrab marth all day, you might as well just run and grab behind you when he lands instead, cuz he's gonna be applying to much shield pressure for you to just sit there.

 

[asob4]

rolling/spot dodging is the way to go ;D

or
according to awex, if you use *****mar you'll 3 stock any marth, so go with that

 

[Wazzle]

Great thread, good matchup advice. I'm wondering if there is something like this, except how olimar and character "x"'s compatibility on a team.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Okay well if Marth is gonna be in the air UP+B or F+B with a Purple. This knocks him on the ground and causes him to change strats. This basically is best on Platform Stages.

If Marth does his Forward B, just fricking run. Seriously. Nothing works better.
If you want something safe against it shield or just not be there. Honestly I hate WACing but I'm doing it more and more now, I did it a lot in the past, but when you can't dodge whistle and roll or jab is your best hope.

As far as Wolf being worse. No. Never. Stick to the topic.

 

[Icythaco]

(first post. ever.)

I've noticed that mind games work great against marth, especially if he's spamming his counter. I like to run at him and just keep on going past him w/out attacking (followed by a quick turn+grab, or somesuch), or short hopping him w/out attacking, especially if he's on a platform above me. Regardless, I generally like to delay my attacks against marth anyway. Anything to make him pull out that counter, which'll set him up for a nice combo or a smash. I generally like to act aggressive with my movements w/out actually culminating in any (expected) attack--anything to tempt him into taking that juicy Dspecial bait--and follow up during counter's exploitable lag time.

I've found the average marth player online to be particularly susceptible to spamming counter while in the air, and delaying your expected attack slighty will bait the counter and allow you to pull off an easy aerial during marth's lag while you're both free falling.

More skilled marth players probably won't be as reliant on counter, but an unpredictable game never hurts.


BTW, Please correct me if anything I said is obvious, stupid, or otherwise. I'm still learning.

On a side note, humillity sucks.

 

[asob4]

congratz on making your first post? lol

most marth's i've played don't use counter too much, only one really has
i can usually never get close to any marth so it's best to try to keep distance and chuck purple's to get an opening for the grab/smash

shielding all of side b or rolling past it is the only way to get past his approach if you have no other way to stop it

marth's spam side b for the most part and the key to this match up is knowing where their attacks will stop so you can be right out of range and grab them

 

[Puddin]

If I fought a Marth spamming counter I would be in pure Olimar heaven. Obviously spamming it they would become extremely predictable, so simply predict. Fake an approach, let them use counter anticipating your approach and run in for a grab. Of course a good Marth wouldn't spam Counter, still use it, but not spam it for fear of becoming predictable.

 

[Excellence]

Personally, I hate approaching with Olimar, I think he shouldn't have to. If your opponent is Marth, throw Pikmin in his face until he gets near you. There is little Marth can do while he is above you, take that time to forward smash him. Whenever Marth makes a move, the play usually stays consistent in their strategy, use the predictability factor to your advantage.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rwSFlCdP53U&feature=related

While Mr.x Didn't play Flawless he did a great job. If you look at Marth's approaches and where he's at in his Fair you see that the UP+B would hit as well. I can understand why not to use the UP+B but you have to admit this match shows many good things Olimar should do what he should watch out for.

The F+B From Marth: 1:50 the F+B can be Shielded and punished if you have littlem ore than a full shield this mean not shielding or staying campy or aggressive.

2:46 The throw is just out of range with the Blue when F+B finishes. And since Marth didn't DI properly he was combo'd nicely.

While the Marth didn't have experience against the Olimar it shows the basics of a Marth playstyle to look out for.

 

[asob4]

i played a marth today, and i can say for a fact purple pikmin make a huge difference
getting hit with a stray purple completely throws off their game
also, battlefield(for neutrals) is amazing against him
i killed him all three stocks with a red up smash @ ~95% through the platforms, decayed

 

[DanGR]

I'm going to be gone all tomorrow and maybe sunday at a tourney so starting MONDAY, the discussion will be about Falco. Until then, it's still marth's week, as I need some more info for the OP. Thanks~

 

[asob4]

i'll test out all the up smash kill percents if anyone wants me too
i'll be free on sunday

 

[DanGR]

I took on that project before the summer began, but it fell b/c there's too many variables you have to account for: sweetstpot, ceiling height, pikmin color, and DI. You can if you want, but be aware.

 

[asob4]

i'll just do it on neutrals with the tip of the attack (where most hits will take place) through a platform

no point in doing whites since that's why too high of a percent
now it's only 5 :D
red kills him at ~95% with a tip through a platform on battlefield
now red is done :D

 

[Puddin]

Well the new week is starting, so who do you think we should do? I assume most of the Olimar boards have seen the "how to fight Diddy" thread and a lot have posted on it so we should just go ahead and cover Diddy Kong.

Diddy is my vote.

 

[asob4]

on AiB they're doing a match up thread (because the chart is jank) and this week is oli
i've been doing a lot of the match ups and some more input would help

p.s. i already used the 4 from here

 

[Redemption]

What happened to Falco?

 

[DanGR]

oh, my bad. I'll edit the OP in a minute. I agreed with falco. This week is falco! Sorry about the update. I've been pretty busy the past couple weeks. :/

What should I give as the difficulty level of Olimar v Marth? I was thinking 6:4 Marth? Better safe than sorry eh?

 

[Redemption]

I think 6:4 is fair, maybe a bit too generous but it'll do. As for falco, campy falco's on FD can honestly go #$% themselves. They laser you as soon as the match starts, so you have to time your pikmin plucks. Then once you have your 6, you try to hop over the laser and pikmin toss... only to have falco reflect them. My friend plays a really campy falco, and even though I manage to beat him 70% of the time, it is purely based on the fact that I am better than him. It just feels like falco is perfectly suited to fight olimar. Either that, or I'm wrong and I'm not approaching this battle properly.


Oh and for reference and comparison, I'll post what the falco board wrote in their matchup thread for olimar:

Week #3 : Olimar

* Behaviour : Olimar s pretty versatile... When he's far away, he sends you Pikmins. But when he's close, he can grab you with his sick range, smash you with his Pikmin, use his UTilt, or even use SH Aerials...
* His scaring moves :
- Pikmin Throw : A move that Olimars love spam at a long distance. If you didn't reflect them, you can easily remove stuck pikmen with Nair, Jabx3, or Phantasm.
- Grab : Amazing Range... The only way to avoid the grab is to play defensive. If you are too aggresive, he will calmly grab you.
- Up Tilt : Very annoying move. It lasts a long time, and is a very good defensive move. The only move that you should shield (for a while), then shieldgrab.
* How to win ?
- Phantasm is NOT your friend against a great Olimar. A lot of his moves outpriorize it....
- Play defensive and a patient game. SHL and SHDL perfectly timed are very useful.
- Let him go to you. Don't run into a stationary Olimar.
- Chaingrab is less effective against a good Olimar, since he can escape it a a certain percent. And if you miss the grab, you will get grabbed... However, down-throw to spike is very useful.
- If you have to approach, Dair at a diagonnal angle and Bair can be great.
- U-Smash, if used by surprise, can be very effective to kill.
- And last but not least, if you hang the ledge while he's trying to recover... He will simply fall to his death ! :D This simplifies a lot the edgeguard.
* Match-Up (Average) : 5/5. If you lay a patient game, with moves at the perfet moments, you will very probably win.

 

[DanGR]

I helped them write that. ^__^... >_>

I have a lot to say, but I'd rather have y'all talk about the matchup and combine y'alls knowledge instead of having me rant about how uptilt>falco in general.

I guess for some conversation movers, I'll ask some questions:
How do you safely approach falco?
How to dodge lasers efficiently?

 

[Puddin]

- Pikmin Throw : A move that Olimars love spam at a long distance.

- Let him go to you. Don't run into a stationary Olimar.

- And last but not least, if you hang the ledge while he's trying to recover... He will simply fall to his death ! :D This simplifies a lot the edgeguard.

That first statement is extremely ironic considering campy Falcos

Who outcamps who? I'd think Falco because of his reflector but I dunno

Huh! WHAAAT?! grabbing the ledge will....MAKE OLIMAR DIE?! They found out the secret to beating Olimar.

Falco probably has the best laser out of the three Space Furries, Wolf's might be better but it's slower then Falcos. Laser spamming Foxs are a joke to Olimar though. But Falcos is fast and stuns, which definitely makes approaching a campy Falco difficult.

The first thing to decide is the stage, the stage can make a huge difference against a campy Falco , maybe one with platforms? Say Battlefield, let the Falco camp with lasers and just jump onto the platform making them either approach or jump to shoot one laser at you at a time. From what I can tell this could be very effective at Battlefield, because approaching with F-B would probably end in death XD

 

[DanGR]

Falco's lasers outspam Olimar's pikmin. The hitstun on the lasers make this a sad reality. :/

 

[Puddin]

I figured they would, so how exactly do you guys think platforms would help? Obviously if Falco knows he can out-camp Olimar he is going to spam the lasers, maybe not all but whatever it takes to win right? So would platforms help or hinder Falcos spam game?

Falco is like a fast King DeDeDe, Chain Grabs and an Infinite. Lets talk edge game. I've fought quite a few Falcos in my time as an Olimar main and the on thing I seem to notice is that that have two ways trying to keep us from getting back on the stage. Standing from a distance, jumping and shooting the lasers or standing at the edge spamming their infinite to keep me off. Anyway what do you think about being on the edge against Falco?

 

[whodat]

Falco really isn't as much trouble as you are all making him out to be. The only thing that he really has over olimar is his laser is actually annoying. Everything else that he has can be either out prioritized or shield grabbed.

Second he is a fast faller which means that olimar get a free chain grab unless you grab with a purple up to 40% and all of you olimar players know that you can get a lot more than that, but that's just minimum. Also yellow pikmen go through lasers and can't be thrown off by shine. Use those to your advantage.

Just like all space animals, Falco's recovery is minimal. He can be gimped just like the rest also his doesn't go as far as Wolf or Fox.

 

[Puddin]

haha, were we really making him out to be such a serious threat? All we've been talking about is stage counter picks and how he outcamps us.

Just a side note, my personal favorite approach is to SH towards him, then when I'm near him jump and fast fall and use the whistle.

 

[DanGR]

I'm just sad that I can't spam-throw my fellow ground dwellers. It's just different, that's all. On a side note, it's easier and safer to edgeguard falco than most characters, b/c you just wait until he starts his upb before you jump down to spike.

 

[asob4]

aggressive falcos aren't that much of a problem, it's the campy ones that are horrible. on AiB i put him as 55-45 either way... at least i think i did

 

[Excellence]

Okay, no. Your R.O.B. guide isn't very helpful against a R.O.B. who doesn't camp. The R.O.B. I play isn't a camper in the least, unless I'm off the edge, in which case he'll knock projectiles into Olimar to send him off screen. What about gathering some information on that?

 

[DanGR]

Considering I don't play against Rob regularly, I got my info from everyone who has visited this thread. If you have something to contribute, then please do. But don't come in here and say that the Rob you play against isn't normal and expect me to beg for your mercy.

Edit: My guide is pretty straightforward. Just stay outside of his nasty range and camp with fsmashes and grabs. throw pikmin to bother him. If he jumps, either shield it out, or roll away. If you're coming back to the stage and he's shoving you off with the projectiles, then whistle it out, and try to get back that way. You have to be patient. It's one of Olimar's hardest matchups. (if not the worst) My Rob guide is more of a guide to help you not make a fool of yourself rather than to win. If you don't like it, then make your own. that simple.

To everyone else, we still need some info on falco. It's almost the end of the week and we still have to discuss falco's recovery, defensive game, and how to approach.

 

[Starzonedge]

Crawl under the lasers with Down Tilt. One grab against Falco and he'll most likely have over 40-50% depending on what combo you decide to use and how you read his DI as he lands back down. If they like to Side B towards the stage, just charge your F-Smash. If they start to smarten up and go for the ledge, then time it right so you grab the ledge right when the "TING" sound plays.

 

[Dotcom]

Does any one know a Falco player... if not i'm pretty sure i could grab one.


^ has more experience against Falco's than me
<has no experience against Falco's
V has more experience against falco's than me

 

[Puddin]

I know someone who uses Falco, I think he has an account on the boards so I'll ask him and have him PM you or post here, by the way Protoman You have died of Dysentery. lol...

Olimar's Dtilt really isn't an effective way of avoiding the lasers. He can duck under them but at the rate of which Falco can spam them he would only be able to dodge one before being hit by the next during ending lag.

I've tested it at full spam speed (lol) and every other laser Olimar would be able do duck under and slowly approach Falco, any competent player wouldn't stand there spamming the lasers while you approached, at a slow pace might I add. Conclusion, Laser Ducking is not an effective or very useful way of approach.

Like the rest of the Space Furries Falcos recovery is limited, but remember so is Olimars so I guess just be careful when going out to edge guard. One thing I've noticed is that Falco (along with Fox) likes to grab the ledge, jump up, and use the Side B as means to get back onto the stage this can be very annoying, but easily punished by shielding the blow and running in for a grab during landing lag.

 

[Dotcom]

I love Up Smashsing against the Falco's that jump up and side B. Especially with a Blue Pikmin that has the best priority of all our little friends, an with a little anticipation, This can lead to a kill sometimes.

 

[Zap657]

Shameless advertising.

As for facing Falco, one well placed latched yellow pikmin can prevent Falco from using his laser at all.

Also, in my experience Falco players seem to like spamming down-B when (if) you try to approach. Kicking the reflector in your face not only racks up damage but has a high possibility of making you trip/fall over. Luckily you can easily duck and dtilt your way around it..

Falcos will most likely prefer using side-b to recover rather than the laggy up-b, so gimping can be difficult. If you think he'll just barely make the edge or you think you can get the timing right, by all means go out and edgehog/guard him, otherwise wait until he's below the stage to attempt anything.

As for which stages, a stage with platforms such as BF or SV would probably be best, as FD is a good place for laser spam.