~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[DanGR]

I'll update Wario as soon as I have the time to. This week is Pikachu!

 

[Dr. Hyde]

vs. Pikachu

ooh me first!!

heehee yes

Okay played a decent pikachu this weekend and I have some very good news for all you who have worries. The match is very latch based for me. You latch a yellow and then make your move. I haven't found any of the moves that remove yellow or the latch areas but I know that latching a Yellow on will screw the pikachu royally. She hated me for latching. Once you get on you wait for them to make a move to get the thing off, then approach with an attack.

Little things like a Down throw chain works three times so right off the start of the match or a fresh pika stock, grab and down throw, free percent damage is good. And then latch. lol

Ok now getting back to the stage after being knocked off is horrible. If a pikachu is under you just whistle armor. The Thunder is just near impossible to dodge with Oli's air dodge, for me at least. Fear the Up Smash and Down Smash of Pikachu. Actually fear every smash attack. Just be patient and wait for an opening.

Counter picking against pikachu is fairly easy for me. I ban Green Greens, personally. The approaching is bad if they aren't doing a move and the fact that you have to knock out blocks and/or jump over makes you a prime target for the rat.
I choose Luigi's Mansion which just screws pika over. Ceilings mean protection from Thunder and up smash KO's and Olimar can do nast tech chasing with the Up smashes on the level.
Same thing but not as easy on Sky world. Just don't expect the match to be as fun for you.

 

[nevershootme]

The first and most important rule to surviving against pikachu is escaping d-smash. It's not hard to escape and you will never be flown up again and eat a thunder. in layman terms, learn to DI out of there...

-The quick attack canceling is just there for a small percent hit and annoyance. But it does follow up with u-air or f-air without a hitch. But it may lead to a small jab lock through quick attack cancels if he trips you from neutral attack (note: this lock is not tested completely and do not worry too much about it)

-Yellow pikmin is your ultimate friend no matter what... you are perfectly safe to grab him with yellow if he's doing d-smash. be smart and don't get too close when grabbing ^_^

-If you do get caught in thunder, super armor that sucker or dodge.

-Pika's kill moves are n-air, thunder, and all smashes (except d-smash if you escape it)

-His forward chain throw will get you for up to 30%, but you can compensate that for your regular throw combo.

-If he's gonna side-b to recover, try to smack him hard with a purple or something. Good luck aiming.

-If the pikachu is a camper with thunder jolts... power shield as always and chuck it. even a latched pikmin will take a hit from the jolt and you are freely open to make the attack.

That's all i can provide at this time

 

[DanGR]

I haven't played any good pikachus yet.

off topic: wow, hyde. You've been the 1st to post almost every week. lol

Anyways, I here the pikachus have trouble approaching sometimes, but others find it easier. Their basic approach is thundershock> uptilt or dtilt and then they go to the air to finish their combos. If y'all haven't noticed from any videos or experience, they love to use a scary tech they discovered called QACing. They cancel their quick attack(upB) into any move:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzaADQ1Ii4

This match is a great example of it's uses. I'm not sure how to counter except to maybe use your shield b/c it's hard for the pikachu to grab out of it. Just don't jump after them when they're QACing(i think) cuz they'll screw you in the air.

Some great stuff y'all

 

[St. Viers]

um, as a wario user, I'll try and shed some light on this.

Wario's advantages in this matchup:

*His aerial maneuverability makes it *slightly* less annoying to approach olimar from air.

*Once he gets olimar offstage, olimar shouldn't be coming back, due to successful/aggressive edge-guarding

* f-smash > thrown pikmin, and I believe olimar's f/d-smash, due to SAF at startup. No color pikmin resists him.

Disadvantages:

*no projectile, meaning less options when dealing with pikmin

* Olimar has an excellent anti-aerial game.

* Olimar's ground/low air game is far better than warios, and wario's weight makes it easier to chain attacks.

Thats all I got for now >_>

 

[DanGR]

Thanks for your input. Anything is appreciated. You know anything about pikachu?

 

[Kashakunaki]

Umm... Pikachu's down smash is gay?

Seriously, though, I got nothin'.

 

[DanGR]

haha, you got that right man. I'm so tired.

Edit: wow, I just spammed my own thread. how sad...

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I have to say that Up+B spamming seems annoying as heck but I notice that after the hit Pikachu was right next to the player. So I figure a shield and up tilt would fix the problem but I don't know any pikachu with advance tech.

 

[DanGR]

yah, that's what I think too. They can't perform a grab out of it, and if they attack, you can shield. I'm more worried about QACing(upb canceling) into a nair, over and over and over. It lowers shields like any other move. I'm not sure how to punish it.

 

[Jarri]

Pikachu, eh? Gonna have to play Hansi and stelzig a lot this week, as they both main Pikachu. I'll be back later with some stuff, but I can say already that his smashes are the pwnage.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Vs. Pikachu, latch yellow pikmin. He has a hard time getting rid of them compared with other characters, because most of his fast attacks are electric.

 

[DanGR]

Wario info has been updated. We still need some info in the "how to win?" section though.

 

[Jadedlink]

Most of this has been said, but here is my personal take.

My old roommate used pikachu. He was decent at best, but I still got lots of hands on experience with pikachu. First, yellow pikmin are important in this match. Pikachu is annoying, but you can annoy pikachu back with yellow pikmin. It helps to jump over pikachu's neutral b and latch a pikmin instead of just throwing a pikmin and stopping his neutral b.

Second, learn to punish pikachu. His all of his down attacks, down special, d-smash, dair, are easy to punish if they don't connect. Learn to dodge his thunder in the air or WAC it. And third, grab. Your grab is longer than most of pikachus attack so use shield grabs as much as possible. You can easily out spam and out range pikachu so take advantage of it. Camping out is a good strategy against pikachu. Don't get too aggressive or you could get a d-smash in your face.

Don't forget that a thrown pikmin stops his side b. So if you see him charging up throw a pikmin in front of him.

I don't know a strategy to stop pikachu's QAC nairs. I'm going to have to play a few more matches against some pikachu players I know. Olimar's smashes might be able to stop his nair, but i'm not too sure.

 

[Puddin]

From my own experience against a friend who, well I dont know I guess "Secondary" mains Pikachu, really isn't that hard to spam him and claim to be "good" but he just loves to try and out-camp me (Olimar) by spamming Neutral B so what I do is jump at him as if I'm going to attack, he will stop and jump in the air to try and Down Air Smash me where I would have been if I had actually gone in for the attack and like Jadedlink said run in and punish him for being so **** predictable. Pikachus Down Smash is annoying as hell...and hurts like a *****

 

[DanGR]

Thank you for your posts y'all.

I have some questions:

Is there a move that just has great priority over pikachu in general? Ex. Does uptilt outprioritize pikachu's dair, nair, and nair or somethin?

How should Olimar edgeguard, if at all?

Are Pikachu's aerials as good as wario's? (so is being in the air a +) If so, when?

And, what's the matchup score? like 5/5? That sounds about right.

 

[gallax]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164602

This is a thread about how pika should deal with olimar. It has some really good info about our strategy. Read it and see what we try and avoid so that you can do it more. Also...go pika!!!!!

 

[DanGR]

thanks, I'll check it out. I think I posted in there a while ago though...

 

[DarkStraw]

Pikachu is easy to outspam so long as he stays on the ground, MOST good pikachu's will jump in the air and spam, which makes things harder. What i like to do if they are jumping in the air spamming is this:
You know where the thunder shocks are comming from, throw pikmin through them, yellows will go through the thundershocks to hit pika (i think). i dont have a problem doging thunder (downB) with airdoge. His downsmash is easy to aviodwith your range, you just space him so long as he's not spamming it, if he spamms it, just DI out (press the up button repeatidly untill your out).does about 4 damage if you DI out correctly, compared to 15 full damage if you let it all hit you. Takes practice to DI out of it when they arent spamming it though, harder to see it comming.

Pikmin on him, or in his path will stop his headbutt. If your really haveing trouble with his downsmash you can try jabbing whenever he gets close, i think it comes out faster than his downsmash, i dont use this method, but i think it works. Your Fmash outranges his, if you have a yellow i think it goes through his.... otherwise his goes through yours, if you space so your out of ranges of his it dosent matter much though. AS in most olimar matchups, i think its best to outspam him, if both spam eventually most all of your pikmin except yellow will die, leaving you with lots of yellows. He will eventually have to approach and then when he does you will be ready for him with fmash's grabs and downsmashes

I think this is an even match or olimar has an advantage.

Im not really sure what to rate this matchup, usually i can beat pikachu, but today i played a really good one and he beat me. I think my problem was i wasent trying to outcamp him...i tried to approach and lost... i wont know for sure till i play him again.

 

[DanGR]

hmmm, interesting stuff^ Airdodging the thunder isn't very easy though.

 

[Jarri]

DanGR, perhaps you should add the names of the people that gave tips in the first post?

 

[Dr. Hyde]

nah, its fine just to have the information up on how to win. Names just adds clutter in my opinion.

 

[DarkStraw]

You dont just airdoge the thunder, you aviod going over pikachu when he will obviously use it. Aviod situations where he can use it and your fine, they like to use it near the edge, and if your a platform above them etc. Its rare they get a chance to use it against me, and then i can airdoge the rest (or try my best, i guess id say its 50/50 on how often i get hit when i try to airdoge it) If you play a campy olimar you wont be approaching pikachu anyways, which further limits how he can use his downb(thunder)

 

[DanGR]

DanGR, perhaps you should add the names of the people that gave tips in the first post?

I quoted you and added you name after the quote already. It's all good.

Edit: you mean for everyone, even people I didn't quote? I can just thank the Olimar community and visitors for their help and we've got that covered. As for quotes, I gave specific credit for those contributions.

nah, its fine just to have the information up on how to win. Names just adds clutter in my opinion.

I put the quotes in "..." for that very reason.

You dont just airdoge the thunder, you aviod going over pikachu when he will obviously use it. Aviod situations where he can use it and your fine, they like to use it near the edge, and if your a platform above them etc. Its rare they get a chance to use it against me, and then i can airdoge the rest (or try my best, i guess id say its 50/50 on how often i get hit when i try to airdoge it) If you play a campy olimar you wont be approaching pikachu anyways, which further limits how he can use his downb(thunder)

That's sounds better. So it shouldn't be a problem? I think I read somewhere that it's their best kill move.

 

[Jadedlink]

Actually, dodging thunder is easy once you get the timing down. I

Pikachu likes to d-smash when your recovering from the edge of the stage. Just remember never fall on top of pikachu.

Always jump when you are on the edge or attack when getting off the edge. Never roll up from the edge with pikachu waiting there.

Another thing about the d-smash. Never roll near pikachu. You will get d-smash'ed.

 

[shrinkray21]

Okay Pikachu - didn't read everything from above so some of this may be repeats.

Pros-

1) Yellow Pikmin - However, please for the love of god, don't think latching one yellow will change anything - one quack to nair and the thing is dead - however, good for bad pikas.

2) Olly's grab game can outdo the fair using pika - be careful of quick fingered pikas b/c of the small lag at the end of a fair. They will down dodge and avoid the grab -

3) Ledge game - Pikas recovery off the edge will not kill you - but be careful to not go below the ledge off the level or they will Q.A. back to the edge and leave you hanging - however, their up b has startup lag which means SPIKES!!! :D.

Cons

1) Pikas downsmash is awesome - it is very very quick and lasts a long time - if you get stuck in it...smash di out of it...if it hits you straight up DO NOT AIR DODGE IMMEDIATELY - any attack or dodge when you are hit straight up will follow in a thunder.

2) Quack Canceling is vicious against olimar when used correctly - be warned.

3) short hop to neutral b is also very potent - easiest is to pshield rather than downdodge.

4) be careful of fair hopping. the move is fast and dangerous.

Overall - both sides have benefits so I'd say 5/5 Even match

 

[Puddin]

Are Pikachu's aerials as good as wario's? (so is being in the air a +) If so, when?

That's a bit of a toughy since Wario's air game is beastly, I dont know many characters with better air then him, Jiggly though =\

Don't know too much about Pikachu's Air game, except that he has that spiny thing like Sonic, but with Electricity. I do know Pikachus Neutral Air has priority over Olimars so thats something to watch out for if your just short hoping for an Nair. As for his DAir, if Olimar is on the ground it would take precise aim to stop Pika with an Usmash because when Pikas Dair hits the ground the electricity spreads out, so if you arn't directly under Pika, and timing your Usmash perfectly you'll get punished, all it takes is for Pika to DI next to you on the ground.

As for Pika's Dair vs Olimars Nair they both get canceled and deal damage to each character, from what I've been able to test. As for their Side Aerials it all depends on the timing, Olimar's has better range but Pikachus is faster, it can also depend on the Pikmin you use because the Yellow have a wider range, as mentioned in various other threads. All in All their air game is probably equal, one possibly having a better advantage over the other but I havn't done too much testing.

 

[DanGR]

So, would y'all say that fair and nair are the most feared ones? watch out for those specifically? It seems like I'd be more worried about his nair, with that great priority, but I'm not sure.

 

[Puddin]

We should have more tests to see exactly how much priority Pikas Nair has, I'm guessing it's only over Olimars Nair but Olimars Nair has priority over a lot which must mean Pika has prioity over more then Olimar does! oh noes! I actually did do some more tests with Pikachus Nair and from what I can tell, if Olimar is a safe distance and uses Fair he can simply cancel it with no harm to either player, but that wasn't close enough for Pikachu to even hit Olimar wich is just another example of Range over Speed.

But when using it while Pikachus Nair was in range, most of the time it took priority over Olimars Fair, so it would seem Pikachus Nair is definitely something to watch out for. Of course we cant just try it once and conclude that we should never get in the air with Pikachu, obviously we should do more to test this.

Well thats the bad news, now it's time for some good news. I tested Pikachus Fair vs Olimars Fair and right now it looks like Olimars Fair takes priority over Pikachus Fair and so does Olimars Nair. soooo point Olimar. lol

 

[DanGR]

^yeah! Anyways, that helps him out a bunch. SHfairs can be punished via fair from Olimar. Thundershock can be punished if you run beneath him and upsmash, or you can jump back and throw pikmen. nair>jab from pikachu. does that work? I need to go to training mode some...

 

[Puddin]

you mean like short hoping and using Nair on Pikachus headbutt spam? yeah Nair takes priority over Pikas infinite jab

Edit: what do you think about Olimars Utilt? It's basically the same as his Nair but maybe different priority? we should test the two and see what kind of priority they have over attacks, I know his Utilt has priority over Wolfs Fsmash but if you were falling into Wolfs Charged Fsmash, would an Nair take priority over it like his Utilt? thats an interesting something we should test.

Actually never mind, I just tested the Fsmash Wolf thing and his Nair still has priority =\ but maybe they still have different priority over some attacks.

 

[DanGR]

No^, I mean pikachu using nair and then jab.(sorry) Kinda like sheik's nair, jab combo that works everytime if she can space well enough.

I'm pretty sure uptilt has more priority than nair. It's a ground move, and aerials tend to have less priority over ground moves, in general. But I'm not sure. I wouldn't think nair>wolf's fsmash, but it's not really a problem to me. at least.

 

[Puddin]

Oh ok, lol I dont know about that have we talked Pikachus specials? because most every neutral attack and tilt in the game can stop his Nspecial. All of Olimars attack, tilts, smashes, neutral, everything can stop Pikas Nspecial but really what cant? A Pikmin stops his Fspecial but thats all that can really be stopped.

 

[DanGR]

oh, i forgot about that one. thanks for the info. umm.. what else... his recovery? how should olimar act when pikachu is recovering. Should he just wait for him to get back? or is edgeguarding him actually useful?

 

[Puddin]

If you have time (which I seriously doubt) you could ATTEMPT to edge guard, but Pikachus Up B is fast and if you arn't faster you will be the one who gets edge guarded it would probably be safer to just wait for him, check your Pikmin order, and rearrange them to get ready for your next attack or something like that.

 

[DanGR]

yes. that sounds right^. I think that's everything, unless you have something else to add extra. We've gone over his approaches, priority, recovery, specials, and aerials.

Edit: oh, we need a general way to win. like...what to do generally against Pikachu. I think it'd go along the lines, of "be patient and ab/use your range advantage more than you would normally. Nair is especially good in this matchup, and don't forget to follow up after throwing! (especially the yellows)

 

[Puddin]

lol, Excuse the spam but I have to say, I just fought a friend maining Wario and NEARLY got my *** handed to me on a silver platter, I had three stock and him one but he got me down to one, and nearly killed me, before I was able to shield grab with a purple pikmin with him at 178% Just thought I'd say considering this is a match up thread, and you covered Wario, but I was struggling to stay out of the air this guy knew how to play Wario and wasn't going to let me use Olimars ground game easily.

Edit: eh I couldn't just come on here and talk about a match, I HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE!! uhh general strategy to win, I love to play mind games with my Pika maining friend, who seems to think that everything is so black and white that I will continuously jump over to him, let him jump above me and use a Dair, so I like to mess around with his thinking that I'm going to just sit under his Dair. But thats just my way of fighting my friend, not every Pikachu will play the same but mind games to trick them into a Dsmash or one of the "punishable" moves is always effective.

Also something to note against Pikachu is to be extremely weary of getting yourself cornered and thrown of an edge, where Pikachu will proceed to spam Nspecial to keep you off, this is extremely annoying AND effective against Olimar for two reasons.

1. Olimar has incredibly short Invincibility Frames after grabbing a ledge, making you an easy target for Nspecial spam.

2. If you do get caught, unfortunately dieing may be the only way out because the constant spam of electricity keeps knocking Olimar off, and eventually separating/killing all your Pikmin which will inevitably lead to your death so beware the edge.

Also if you are against the edge and the Pika is Nspecial Spamming, try to stop it with something OTHER then your shield because you will be knocked off by the electricity if you just use the shield to stop it.

Sorry, WoT (Wall of Text)

 

[DanGR]

I'm kinda busy right now, but if you read the matchup info I posted in the OP, would it have helped you any? Also, is there anything that you can tell that I'm missing?

 

[Puddin]

What about priority over Pikas Dash A, I herd they like to abuse his speed with that, and that they liek Mudkipz. I'd test priority over his Dash A but it's 12:17 AM where I am and I don't know why I'm still awake. Well looking at the other character "Bios" I was wondering if we've got Behavior? I suppose against Olimar Pikachu would want to be a bit aggressive to stop our camping, or try to out camp us with Nspecial most likely try and outcamp Olimar because he is faster so if we take an aggressive approach we're punished. Also both players would have to be cautious at hight percents, because both Olimar and Pikachu are light, KO'd at low percents, and have good KO Power. Well they'd be cautious at high percents because of their KO Power...

I don't know I'm tired.

Although I have always wondered why Pikachu users jump when using Nspecial, it's not like it increases the range or anything it just moves in a straight line. Pikmin on the other hand, their range is greatly effected by jumping. I dunno, maybe I should go to the Pika boards.

 

[DanGR]

go to bed. Pikachu's general approach is to try and thundershock and followup with a fast tilt(preferably uptilt) to start a combo or something if you block or spotdodge the thundershock. They'll have to play aggro b/c olimar outcamps pikachu. and they have a lot of options to approach. They can QAC around all over the place,(similiar kinda to wario jumping around) and quickly shoot a thundershock and begin to approach. Other times, they'll QAC to your backside and dair the ground behind you. They love the SHfair, dsmash combo. (If the first fair hits they'll drop and do the dsmash or sometimes uptilt>nair) So, in general, they love to move around and look for an opening in your defense.