~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[hippiedude92]

lol sh fireball goes over olimar's head XD. hes too short XDDDD. what a nice advantage of his lol.

 

[Dabuz]

advice, ban bf, its a great luigi stage in this match, you need lots of room so fd if the best choice of neutrals in this match

 

[Olimarman]

advice, ban bf, its a great luigi stage in this match, you need lots of room so fd if the best choice of neutrals in this match

Jesus yes. Against Weegee, I usually pivot grab them when they land after using their aerials. You can sometimes run amd pivot grab his tornado also. Olimar really can't approach Luigi easily, so just hang tight and throw some pikminz till you get in a good position. Purples are also nice for throwing off Luigi's combos. While it may seem hard, this matchup isn't terrible once you get used to it.

 

[Dabuz]

yeah, your mainly going to have to try to punish him when he starts doing his kill moves like fsmash or bair at around 80%, when he is trying to do kill moves his attacks are laggy and a great chance for you to punish them

 

[asob4]

don't get jabbed, or you will get shoreyuken'd

 

[hippiedude92]

don't get jabbed, or you will get shoreyuken'd

don't get jabbed at all lol. or you will get : jab cancel (jab, crouch jab crouch repeat), jab roll'd (dunno if theres a name for it, but you jab, roll behind them, jab roll behind them again repeat),
jab cancel grab, jab cancel to any aerial, jab cancel to dtilt to a shoryuken, jab to any tilt..

man i can keep going on with this possibilities, so in general DON'T GET JABBED BY WIGI

 

[DtJ Hilt]

so was a matchup number decided on DanGR? 35:65? 40:60? I can see luigi competing with meta and marth as oli's worst matchup, personally.

On another note... why is rob listed as 35:65? O_o
sure, it's difficult for olimar, but it's not THAT bad. 40:60/45:55 is a bit more reasonable.. but there's no way rob could be even close to our worst matchup. But i dunno. I'll have to mm OS's Rob again tomorrow.

 

[DanGR]

Personally, I think 35-65 if the Luigi knows the matchup well. Maybe 40-60.

We haven't been to R.O.B. in a while, so the number may not be right. I'd put R.O.B. at 40-60. We can review the matchup if some people need help with it. Same thing with Peach. Nair out of shield is AWESOME against floating dairs. That alone pulls the matchup closer to even. I'd put it at 60-40-ish.

Any thoughts on who we cover next?

edit: I changed Rob to 40-60, Luigi to 40-60 to 35-65, MK to 35-65, and Peach to 35-65 for now.

 

[gantrain05]

so was a matchup number decided on DanGR? 35:65? 40:60? I can see luigi competing with meta and marth as oli's worst matchup, personally.

On another note... why is rob listed as 35:65? O_o
sure, it's difficult for olimar, but it's not THAT bad. 40:60/45:55 is a bit more reasonable.. but there's no way rob could be even close to our worst matchup. But i dunno. I'll have to mm OS's Rob again tomorrow.

wow i didn't know you guys considered marth one of his worse matchups, i generally only have alot of trouble with metaknights and falcos, you gotta use alot of power shielding to get inside marths zoning and **** with grab combos.

 

[Dabuz]

Personally, I think 35-65 if the Luigi knows the matchup well. Maybe 40-60.

We haven't been to R.O.B. in a while, so the number may not be right. I'd put R.O.B. at 40-60. We can review the matchup if some people need help with it. Same thing with Peach. Nair out of shield is AWESOME against floating dairs. That alone pulls the matchup closer to even. I'd put it at 60-40-ish.

Any thoughts on who we cover next?

edit: I changed Rob to 40-60, Luigi to 40-60 to 35-65, MK to 35-65, and Peach to 35-65 for now.

with good use of super armor allowing oli to live to 200% easily with robs predictable kill moves id say we have 60-40 advantage against rob

 

[Dyyne]

If you're good at di'ing out of his dsmash, that really helps too, since it is a pretty good kill move if not stale that is hard to whistle. Not that I'm good at it

 

[Fino]

lol sh HADOUKEN goes over olimar's head XD. hes too short XDDDD. what a nice advantage of his lol.

don't get jabbed, or you will get shoryuken'd

If luigi can't Hadouken it breaks the entire chain.... *see ken*

~Fino


EDIT: Swf is incredibly toon link
guess who's 1 infraction away from being legitly banned?
Can you infract me twice for one post? (since I can't double post how gay this is)

Just a reminder to everyone, jokes are not allowed on swf. Let's move to AiB

ON FLIPPING TOPIC: luigi is hard 60:40-65:35 imo. He's our worst match-up

This is why we should have someone who understands us to mod our forums

 

[Dyyne]

Lmao, fino your thread was too funny (the smash wiki one that was insta locked).

Anyway, yeah your infractions are kinda whack. Is sudai really giving them to you? Geez. And lul at

This is why we should have someone who understands us to mod our forums

Rough translation: "make me a mod!!!!!!!!" lul. Not saying you should or shouldn't be, just funny lul. Although I do agree with you about this issue <3



on topic: I feel like luigi is probably 65:35 if not higher. I say this because while the win ratio between equal skilled players at the top level may not be that, if we leave it at, say 60-40, that doesn't get across the point that he is very difficult compared to other less difficult chars.

 

[hippiedude92]

hm so have you guys concluded it? 60:40 in luigi's favor (if he doesn't know the matchup at all). 65:35 ( with CPs and/or if he knows olimar matchup extremely well). Sounds fair games ggs.

 

[DanGR]

hm so have you guys concluded it? 60:40 in luigi's favor (if he doesn't know the matchup at all). 65:35 ( with CPs and/or if he knows olimar matchup extremely well). Sounds fair games ggs.

Well, we're assuming 3 things.
1. Both players know the matchup very well.
2. Both players are equally skilled.
3. Both players represent top level play.
With those 3 taken into account, I'd say it's 65:35 Luigi.

Next character anyone?

 

[hippiedude92]

go mario go go go go =3. nice discussion guise.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

how about mewtwo next?

Spoiler

Lucario

 

[asob4]

i can agree with lucario

60-40 our favor
ok next?
lmfao

 

[omegablackmage]

GW v Olimar (input requested)

Hey guys,

Gw boards are rediscussing our matchup with olimar right now. If you guys have any valuable knowledge or experience you'd like to share with us, it would be appreciated.

Heres the thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kyas]

Lucario matchup

Okay, so I recently played Fogo's Lucario and he messed me up bad. Olimar is supposed to do pretty well against Lucario but I need to know how. Anyone have some tips?

 

[Stray Element]

If you see him flashing with a full aura sphere, try to keep at least one pikmin "thrown" in front of you, while its walking back it will stop the aura sphere. I just do this to take away another thing to worry about. Side B never helps me much in this match up because Lucario can just SH fair (which is one of his main approaches much like Marth) which will knock off all your pikmin.

I would also recommend playing as Lucario and figuring out the hitboxes, because a lot of his are very strange and long lasting. For example his up-smash still has a hitbox around his body long after the attack finishes. His forward smash has a hitbox that is much larger than the animation, and NEVER assume you are out of range of it, I got hit by it when trying to do a pivot grab with a blue at max range once.

Obviously try to get an up-smash in on him at around 90-100, if its fresh, and you aren't playing a stage like Japes you should be able to kill him before he gets to his... like 2x damage bonus level. That's all I have for now, I play a Lucario on a daily basis so if I can think of anything else I'll just add it.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, i play lucarios on a regular basis so I know the matchup pretty well (i'm not very good at explaining things though >.>)

When Lucario's on the ground you have an easy time out spamming him. Lucario's best way for removing pikmin is his nair. it has quite a bit of ending animation but doesnt have much landing lag at all, so dont try to punish it unless you're already close. Lucario's gonna try to outspace you when on the ground. FSmash, FTilt, Aura Sphere... sheild it all. He'll be too far away to do anything afterwards, obviously. Dont try to Airdodge/Side Step Aura Sphere/FSmash. They move at such an awkward speed and it's much MUCH better to just sheild. DEFINITELY dont try to rolling away from it. And rolling forward gives him a chance to punish. Just sheild.

When he's in the air, do NOT try to USmash xD. I use to try to USmash lucario after my Down Throw... it doesnt work. DAir comes out faster, has more priority, and just destroys olimar's USmash. Instead, try to time a pivot grab for his landing lag. He's really floaty so it should be easy to time. FAir also works wonders against lucario.

When You're in the air he's going to try to punish your landing lag. FSmash/Aura Sphere can get easy kills for him when he's at high percents. Whistle them. Whistle has almost no landing lag, and seeing how slow lucy's attacks are, it should be pretty easy to time. Lucario's also good at gimping olimar as well. I've found BAir to actually work surprisingly well against lucario... the hitbox stays out long enough for me to mindgame one in ;D

Your main kills are going to come vertically. Hyphen smash works wonders against lucy. Dash at Lucario, and he'll try to fsmash you. Power Sheild it and you'll have enough time to get in a free USmash. If you happen to get a grab at low percents the only followup you have is FAir. After that it's possible to lead into another FAir, or landcancelled NAir into USmash.

Dont try to gimp him. It's not worth the time xD
Edge Hog him? he can wall cling. Jump off the stage after him? he out prioritizes your aerials, and you'll easily get gimped.

Final Destination works well against Lucario. The extra room makes camping sexxy ;D
Ban Japes. Seriously. Lucario is too good at japes. Dont waste your ban on Rainbow Cruise. It's not that great of a stage for lucario. A smart lucario will take you to Frigate if japes is banned.







@Dangr/Sudai: Why dont we move this to the the Matchup Thread? We could even... say... make this the next character for discussion? ;D

 

[MiniTroika]

When are we going to start discussing Lucario? We've been talking about Luigi for too long now.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

it was never decided lucario would be next >.>

 

[asob4]

just start talking about him
geez guys how many times has dan said that???

watch out for dair, but uair goes through :D
early kills wreck him
stay grounded and go for the early kills ;D

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Here's what I posted in the Lucario Matchup thread that Kyas made:

edit: it's been moved to this thread :X

 

[jog]

Hilt has it right

i play against some good lucario's (trela and rockettrainer) and i also second him myself.

lucario is very good in the air. its nice that our up-air beats his dair but its hard to pull off half the time, you have to get it just right or a get face full of feet.

oli out camps luc too well and forces the approach which leads to grab>fair combo's which can lead to a few other things. i've found lucaio easier to combo against then most people. also i guess its something to mention (although lucario's should never use this move) that when you latch pikmin on lucario, they like to use double team. its just a bad move for lucario to use, it's easy to see coming, and all you have to do is shield then punish. just thought i'd mention that they'll throw DT around from time to time just because of pikmin latch.

also as hilt said please don't try to gimp lucario. its harder then people think it is, the fact that he can wall cling and curve ES makes it hard, unless he's just so far away that he would have to ES and get some ledge snap then go for it i guess. but olimar is too easy to gimp so trying to gimp him can lead to gimping yourself . also, lucario's bair off stage is too good at edge guarding so just WAC through it.

as for fighting lucaio, hyphen smashes are great against him. get grab happy. when lucario isn't in the air he doesn't have many options outside of fsmash and AS that really out range oli's grab. also throwing pikmin and spamming fmash is good when a little ways off from lucario since they'll soak up his AS. lucario lives forever horizontally and isn't the worst but doesn't have the best vertical livability. so up smash is your best friend in this match.

for stages i would also ban japes, and CP luigi's mansion and corneria. though be careful on luigi's because lucario's fsmash will stay out for a day and a half. but it does cut down on his AS spam.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

no, dont cp mansion against lucario... it's probably their best stage. Corneria is gonna be permabanned btw, so you cant take him there.

honestly i just take lucario to FD.... >.>

 

[Llumys]

I don't really have trouble against Lucario, but I've never played a great one. I usually just play defensively with smart toss walls to neutralize Lucario's projectile game. I honestly think Olimar has the advantage in this matchup, because Lucario's range isn't as good as Olimar's, and Olimar has more flexibility and speed when it comes to spacing. It'd be stupid to constantly approach in the air if the Lucario is smart and has good spacing, though.

Toss pressure.

 

[Fino]

If lucario grabs you... it doesn't count as touching the ground ( you're too short ) so when you're thrown you have to rely on your tether.


tl;dr don't get grabbed


~Fino

 

[jog]

no, dont cp mansion against lucario... it's probably their best stage. Corneria is gonna be permabanned btw, so you cant take him there.

honestly i just take lucario to FD.... >.>

weegee's is a good lucario stage but its not his best. we do better there then anyone besides MK. also corneria isn't banned here in texas *shrugs*

really for lucario i would say frigate, japes, and yoshi's island (brawl) are his best stages.

 

[DanGR]

You know, we're on Lucario in the matchup thread. I haven't updated the OP to show it, but there's some discussion already. I'll update in a sec.

 

[|RK|]

And just HOW does Olimar outcamp Lucario? Olimar is forced to approach US.

 

[DanGR]

Olimar's pikmin are far more spammable. It's that simple.

 

[Cook]

And just HOW does Olimar outcamp Lucario? Olimar is forced to approach US.

lolwut?

10umustbejokings




Seriously, Olimar can chuck pikmin WAY faster than Lucario can kamehameha, and the pikmin even stop aura sphere from hitting Olimar.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Aura Sphere to too telegraphed. If he throws it from the ground (which they usually do if you're grounded, unless they try to mindgame you >.>) then you can just jump over it, hit it with a pikmin, sheild it, etc.

I dont see (and havent seen) a reason to believe that olimar gets outcamped by lucario and has to approach.

 

[jog]

And just HOW does Olimar outcamp Lucario? Olimar is forced to approach US.

seriously?

pikmin snuff out ANY size AS that's thrown and are a lot easier to spam. olimar isn't forced to approach anyone really (except maybe snake and ROB). his whole game is camping.

 

[|RK|]

Tsk, that's not it at all. We don't have to do anything. Here I was thinking of ways to mindgame you guys to throw Pikmin at us and you do it for free! Well, this matchup makes Double Team useful at any time we please. Throwing Pikmin at us isn't the best choice. I thought you guys knew this? You and Snake allow for free Double Teams, but Pikmin allow it to be far less telegraphed.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

yeah we knew about it. But think. Is it so amazing that a simple sheild cant shut it down though. And you're too easy to punish afterwards. Just how much ending lag does the attack have anyways? You guys have frame data. Is it such an amazing trick that it goes unpunishable?

And regardless, to use this trick you STILL have to approach us. So even if it did work it wouldnt change the fact that we outcamp you.

 

[Rocann]

yeah we knew about it. But think. Is it so amazing that a simple sheild cant shut it down though. And you're too easy to punish afterwards. Just how much ending lag does the attack have anyways? You guys have frame data. Is it such an amazing trick that it goes unpunishable?

And regardless, to use this trick you STILL have to approach us. So even if it did work it wouldnt change the fact that we outcamp you.

yes it's basically unpunishable and so what if lucario "has to" approach (which isn't true, it's really difficult to put damage on him from a distance), he's got good ways to get in