~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[cutter]

fair>sideb works unusually well against olimar, and that's all he needs really

Powershield and punish.

his fair alone is reason enough for a disadvantage

Powershield it and punish.

I do agree offstage his Fair poses problems but on the stage it is easily powershielded and punished like any other attack.

 

[asob4]

it's easy on paper, but when you're actually playing a smart marth it's different

double fair is hard to punish, especially if it's a retreating fair

not like we haven't come up with ways to get around it, but it is still a solid approach against olimar
it shuts down nearly all our other options

 

[cutter]

it's easy on paper, but when you're actually playing a smart marth it's different

double fair is hard to punish, especially if it's a retreating fair

not like we haven't come up with ways to get around it, but it is still a solid approach against olimar
it shuts down nearly all our other options

If Olimar can stop G&W's turtle I don't see how Olimar struggles with Marth's Fair. Especially since Marth has no projectile and is forced to approach. Also Olimar's grab outranges everything Marth has.

 

[OlimarFan]

w00t we're on Snake now
We should spend two weeks on this guy

P.S. Snake has the best tilts in the game. His F-Tilt can rack up 21 damage (8, 13) and his U-Tilt can KO Olimar around 90%

 

[asob4]

If Olimar can stop G&W's turtle I don't see how Olimar struggles with Marth's Fair. Especially since Marth has no projectile and is forced to approach. Also Olimar's grab outranges everything Marth has.

but GnW can't double turtle at ground level :/
it's hard to explain, but it works against us

 

[Snail]

Snake is a fun matchup. He's heavy, big and powerful, his camping game rivals Olimar's and all of his mines and projectiles are a pain to get around. However, he is easily combo'd and edgeguarded and his air game is worse than Olimar's. I think the key to this matchup is getting Snake into the air and keeping him there as much as possible, giving him little time to camp. If he places his Dsmash mine anywhere you can just throw a pikmin on it, so you don't have to worry about that much.

Does anyone have any info about where to latch Snake? If he is forced to use his tilts to shake off pikmin, that would be great since it'll diminish his KO moves... But yeah :/ I dunno.

 

[Barge]

Campy snakes are a pain, and somehow his Upsmash to gimp olimars recovery usually hits me D:
Fsmash Kos at about 50-70%. Theres always like 5 bombs/grendades/mines on the field..... D:
I really hate fighting snakes. Im just basing this off my opinion, its 60-40 for me.

 

[TheWii]

If you can get a grab on Snake hes doomed but its much harder than usual because of his broken range on ftilt, if you try to shieldgrab after the first hit you will get hit by the second hit because of the broken range. Same thing if you run to him, you will not grab him first hes the one thats gonna ftilt you. Pivot grabs solves this problem but you cant pivot grab all the time because then he will know what you are up to.

But Snake is a big target so Pikmin spamming will distract him so that you can go in for a grab.

I play the smart defensive Snake, he really good. Hes the fu*cking king of grenades lol!

I would say 60:40 (Olimars favor) if you are meeting the aggressive type, 55:45 if you are meeting the smart defensive one.

read that about snake

 

[CALOZ]

Campy snakes are a pain, and somehow his Upsmash to gimp olimars recovery usually hits me D:
Fsmash Kos at about 50-70%. Theres always like 5 bombs/grendades/mines on the field..... D:
I really hate fighting snakes. Im just basing this off my opinion, its 60-40 for me.

i agree with you

cappy snakes are a pain. and when trying to recover the snakes always spam upsmash just to kill you =/.

The mines really hurt me when your in a stage that has platform. They always put them on one on the platforms and not matter where you at. At the bottom of it you'll still get hurt from it =/

 

[RichBrown]

I'll comment more on snake later, I have a little experience with this matchup, but one thing I will say is that a lot of the snakes I've played tend to use double jump and cipher right away, getting them WAY above the stage. When I'm edgeguarding a snake, I try to jump where they are going, not where they are. Get way above them, it will scare the hell out of them because it's easy to set up a spike from here. A lot of snakes will also airdodge and youll get hit by the cipher when you do this, so you can also try to bait them into airdodging, then punish accordingly.

 

[Excellence]

Snake only gives me trouble when he can punsh me against the ledge then batter me with tilts. It's freaking ridiculous that he can have both monsterous range, priority, damage, and knockback. Fortunately, you can grab him until he gets pissed and goes back on the defensive.

 

[Polish Rifle]

Snake only gives me trouble when he can punsh me against the ledge then batter me with tilts. It's freaking ridiculous that he can have both monsterous range, priority, damage, and knockback. Fortunately, you can grab him until he gets pissed and goes back on the defensive.

I think that's the key Excellence. Getting Snake on the defensive. I used to have a lot of problems with Snake and Diddy Kong players and I found the problem was that they were more aggressive.

Now if I can get a player chasing me and dodging my thrown Pikmin, I can grab or smash them away and momentum is in my favor. I still can't fend off edge guarders though :-(

 

[asob4]

aggressive is the best way to play vs snake, unless he's doing extreme camping, then you camp him back, but better ^^

 

[ThePacifist]

In my experience playing Snake is incredibly tedious, the non-stop barrage of explosions and ungodly knock back make him one of the more challenging characters to face. That being said, a Snake in the air is easily exploitable, his up b leaves him wide open for any number of mid air attacks (especially spikes) and if you can keep Snake in the air and avoiding your attacks he will have little time to make mines and nades. Timing, as with all characters is key, but once you get through the field of bombs that a good Snake player should have flying through the stage at all times you can exploit his predicable heavier moves and keep your opponent guessing with Olimar's quicker ones.

 

[OlimarFan]

does he really need to go far offstage vs olimar? fair>fair in quick succession while falling > edgehog
it will ruin any olimar

True.

fair>sideb works unusually well against olimar, and that's all he needs really

Or N-Air> Side-B. I saw Dogma do that.

his fair alone is reason enough for a disadvantage

Yeah. But I'd give Marth only a 55-45 advantage over Olimar.

 

[asob4]

the whole marth match, for any character is a spacing game. if you space better you win

 

[RichBrown]

the whole marth match, for any character is a spacing game. if you space better you win

playing marth is extremely similar to playing G&W in terms of spacing. requires a lot of patience/keen awareness for an opening.

but yeah, snake woo. throw pikmin at his explosives, it'll piss him off. I landed a Fb(purple)-dthrow-fair-dthrow-fair-dair 0-death on my friend's snake the other day on smashville, twas awesome ^_^

 

[OlimarFan]

Snake is a fun matchup. He's heavy, big and powerful, his camping game rivals Olimar's and all of his mines and projectiles are a pain to get around. However, he is easily combo'd and edgeguarded and his air game is worse than Olimar's. I think the key to this matchup is getting Snake into the air and keeping him there as much as possible, giving him little time to camp. If he places his Dsmash mine anywhere you can just throw a pikmin on it, so you don't have to worry about that much.

Does anyone have any info about where to latch Snake? If he is forced to use his tilts to shake off pikmin, that would be great since it'll diminish his KO moves... But yeah :/ I dunno.

Try to latch Snake around his back.

Campy snakes are a pain, and somehow his Upsmash to gimp olimars recovery usually hits me D:
Fsmash Kos at about 50-70%. Theres always like 5 bombs/grendades/mines on the field..... D:
I really hate fighting snakes. Im just basing this off my opinion, its 60-40 for me.

i agree with you

cappy snakes are a pain. and when trying to recover the snakes always spam upsmash just to kill you =/.

The mines really hurt me when your in a stage that has platform. They always put them on one on the platforms and not matter where you at. At the bottom of it you'll still get hurt from it =/

I actually love fighting Snakes, especially campy Snakes. Olimar's Pikmin can, infact, 'outcamp' Snake's projectiles.

For instance, Snake's Nikita can be punished by latching a Pikmin on to him.

Grenades are easier to avoid than Pikmin. I'm not saying dodging grenades are easy, but they're definitely easier than avoiding 3-4 Pikmin, not to mention fast, White Pikmin.

Finally, I also believe that Snake's Mines can be tripped by Pikmin.

Therefore:
CAMPY SNAKES<<<<<OLIMAR'S PIKMIN

 

[Puddin]

Actually I don't think Pikmin can trip mines, if by tripping the mines you mean them walking back after throwing them then no they can't. But I'm not sure exactly how you are referring to tripping them.

I'm not sure how Olimar's Pikmin outcamp his Nikita because he can just move it was Olimar jumps.

Anyway the funniest thing is that [most] Snake players think that their tilts are god and outrange everything, so subconsciously spam them against anyone when Olimar can simply grab them and punish their ignorance. Really funny to watch because even after being grabbed and punished they still believe that we may slip up and actually land a hit on us with their tilt.

 

[asob4]

Actually I don't think Pikmin can trip mines, if by tripping the mines you mean them walking back after throwing them then no they can't. But I'm not sure exactly how you are referring to tripping them.

for snakes dsmash, the mine, any pikmin can trip it as long as it is not in your line wwhere it is invulnerable.
you can toss it past and it will walk over it and activate it, if you do a smash, they will trip it, i even think you can do a grab and they will trip it

 

[Snail]

I think Pikmin are invulnerable during grabs, but I know sideB definitely works. Which is all you really need, anyway.

 

[OlimarFan]

I'm not sure how Olimar's Pikmin outcamp his Nikita because he can just move it was Olimar jumps.

If you latch a white Pikmin on him, I'm sure he will cancel his Nikita.

 

[DanGR]

Outcamping Snake- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5246931#post5246931

 

[Puddin]

I think Pikmin are invulnerable during grabs, but I know sideB definitely works. Which is all you really need, anyway.

You, however are not.

for snakes dsmash, the mine, any pikmin can trip it as long as it is not in your line wwhere it is invulnerable.
you can toss it past and it will walk over it and activate it, if you do a smash, they will trip it, i even think you can do a grab and they will trip it

I think every characters smash trips it, some just aren't as lucky as Olimar...

 

[Poink]

-Luigi's manision: Don't pick this. The tornado alone makes this a big nono.

You can grab metaknight out of mach tornado and drill-dash.
It's the best thing olimar has against the spammy metas.
I see Luigi's mansion being good against Meta especially if it tempts them to spam tornado.

 

[DanGR]

You can only grab the tornado if it's touching the ground. Better MKs will use the tornado to float just above the ground to avoid grabs.

 

[Dyyne]

I don't play the best snakes sadly, so I'm afraid for when i play a good one . Olimar punishes snake very well for many of the things that snake does, as puddin said. Also, olimar cannot grab snake while snake is doing his up b (the thing where he can't do his up b again if he is grabbed), but I'm not sure if maybe you can grab him if hes actually sliding along the edge, maybe you can then.

 

[Barge]

Hey guys, how do snakes do the sliding upsmash thing?
And why do they drop their grenades then throw them?

(fail at fighting and knowing snake)

 

[Excellence]

Mortar Slide is the name for the sliding up smash and it's done by Dash Attack Canceling. What you need to do is cancel your dash attack during the first frames.

 

[CALOZ]

Maybe they drop it cause your close to him and he shield and you get hurt without shielding

When they do the dash attack at you and then they use the up smash to do that sliding i think its called motal slide

 

[OlimarFan]

And why do they drop their grenades then throw them?

More mobility. You can do more stuff with 'em.

 

[Ken Neth]

In my opinion, the matchup is pretty even, maybe with a slight advantage to oli. I played a good oli for awhile about a month ago. Here is what I remember from the matchup.

Olimar out-camps snake by far. I lost every match where I tried to camp him back. In the time it takes to cook a grenade I would have mulitple pikmin thrown on me and Oli had plenty of time to predict and shield the grenade's explosion.

Since camping didn't work out too well, I then went to approaching with mortarslides. Then he would just smash me out of it since the mortarslide has very little priority. Or he would time the grab and combo me from there. Another approach I used that worked better was to just run towards him and when I got within grab/smash range I would shield or spotdodge depending on whether he tried grabbing or attacking. After he would make his move I would ftilt or grab.

Snake seemed to beat Oli in the air unless Oli was coming from below because snake's dair isn't usually effective. Also, once off the edge Oli is pretty easy to kill. If he was close enough to get back without an upb I would jump off and nair or bair him to his death.

In order for snake to win, I had to: Play aggresive and keep him as close as I could so he didn't have an opportunity to pikmin camp, avoid his grabs, and try to get him off the edge. I would lose when I let him camp. So IMO for Oli to win he needs to play defensively and camp until snake is forced to approach and then react appropriately.

This might not be completely accurate since it was over a month ago and that's all from memory, but that is what I remember from it. Hope it helps.

PS. This thread helped me a lot in a tourney on saturday. A couple pages back it talked about how luigi's mansion is a good stage for Oli and a sonic player counterpicked that stage against me in the finals since it sucks for snake. Then I remembered this thread

It's the third match in this playlist. (youtube is blocked where I am so I can't pull up the exact link, sorry) Feel free to critique my oli, I would appreciate it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXhp7...x=0&playnext=1

 

[Puddin]

Also, once off the edge Oli is pretty easy to kill. If he was close enough to get back without an upb I would jump off and nair or bair him to his death.

Discovery of the Century.

Seems like you would be posting this on the Snake Boards rather then here, lol.

 

[DanGR]

This week's Char? Ideas anyone? Methinks Luigi maybe.

Also, whats the concensus ont he Snake matchup odds? 60-40 sound about right? (I think it's about 55-44 or 60-40. Either would do for me)

 

[Ken Neth]

Discovery of the Century.

I know!! What would you guys do with out me?! jk, I knew you guys know that. My post just seemed to have only oli advantages and I had said it was an even matchup so I figured I'd add snake's advantages too.

And about posting it in the snake forums, Dangr started a thread in there that linked us to here and asked us to contribute. So I'd figure I'd help out by giving the match up from snake's point of view. Sorry if it was all common sense to you Olimainers.

 

[asob4]

it's cool, at least you're agreeing with us that it is somewhat advantageous to us olimainers :D

 

[Kinzer]

I didn't want to make a thread just to redirect people but the Ike boards are currently discussing the Matchup between him and Olimar, feedback from people who main Olimar would be very appreciated, as we have hit a rock in the discussion.

If you're interested the link is here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192160

 

[Kyas]

Here's my general tips about fighting Snake (I fight him all the time with a friend so I know the ins and outs of his moves).

Snake's mines can be detonated without consequence by simply rolling over them (hit them with the middle of your roll).

Snake's cypher is your friend; not only does Olimar spike Snake through it, but the fact that the cypher's hitbox cancels your downward momentum makes spiking far less risky. You must spike Snake THROUGH his cypher, since Olimar's Dair is too weak to knock Snake off of it.

Snake's Ftilt combo has a ghost hitbox only slightly smaller than Utilt.

Snake can out-jab and out-tilt you. Basically, the only time Snake should be in your face is while he is struggling to free himself from your pikmin.

Fsmash and grab are great for stopping Mortarslides.

Snake's dash attack has a ghost hitbox that can catch you off guard.

Finally, there's one combo I call the "Snake Eater." Olimar can do it at low percents on Snake. If you have a red or yellow (blue can work, too) followed by anything but white and purple, followed by another yellow, then you can grab Snake and do these moves in rapid succession:

Dthrow -> Hyphen Smash -> Short Hop -> Uair -> Double Jump -> Uair

Fastfall to the ground and get ready to tech chase.

 

[Snail]

^ That combo is pretty awesome. Does the common Dthrow-Fsmash-Dthrow-hyphen smash-Nair/Uair work?

 

[Kyas]

Ah, yes, I forgot about Dthrow Fsmash combos! I'll have to look into that one, it sounds sexy