~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[cutter]

This isn't a match where you trade blows, it's a match-up where Olimar throws Pikmin at GaW, waiting for him to slip up and make a mistake so that he can grab him and combo. What you're being faced with is Bair spam, lagless Nair approaches, and being KO'd at 60% from a combination of Dsmash and edgehogging.

This is Brawl, not Melee.

 

[Snail]

Olimar is very easy to gimp, but who needs to do all that when you can just edgehog him?

G&W's advantages aren't really small because he limits Olimar to a small well-protected zone called grab range.

This isn't a match where you trade blows, it's a match-up where Olimar throws Pikmin at GaW, waiting for him to slip up and make a mistake so that he can grab him and combo. What you're being faced with is Bair spam, lagless Nair approaches, and being KO'd at 60% from a combination of Dsmash and edgehogging.

Edgehog =/= instant death.

Olimar isn't limited to one specific zone - you can camp at long range and fight at mid range. You just have to get out of close range encounters to avoid dthrow-dsmash but you can still techroll that.G&W isn't impossible or anything... At least, I don't feel the matchup is that one-sided.

Dsmash has huge range but can be shieldgrabbed. Playing defensively, waiting for an oppertunity to shieldgrab and getting G&W above me worked decently for me. And fsmash walls did pretty well too o.o

 

[Kyas]

I'd say Mr. Game & Watch has the advantage against Olimar. Olimar can be edgehogged for a kill if he's knocked far enough horizontally and a lot of Mr. Game & Watch's attacks do just that. People are going to fling around Olimar's grab range, but Game & Watch could just as easily avoid the ground all together using Turtle or Neutral Air into his Up B clearing him of Olimar's range. Pikmin can be dispatched of instantaneously using Neutral Air and I already mention how to kill Olimar in about 60%; given that Mr. Game & Watch's spam attacks, particularly Down Smash send you flying at low percentages.

The match-up should stand at 40-60, Mr. Game & Watch's advantage.

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXJZuyqXKow

 

[Stiltzskin]

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXJZuyqXKow

Lulz, did you see me spam upsmash at the end? phew, good thing gaw's dsmash is so slow.

 

[Kyas]

Lulz, did you see me spam upsmash at the end? phew, good thing gaw's dsmash is so slow.

A little upsmash spam never hurt anybody... except your opponents.

Got anything to say about the matchup, Stiltz? I'm all ears :D

 

[Stiltzskin]

Pivot grab is your friend. Nuff said.

 

[RichBrown]

His general high priority, low range cc skills are mostly nullified by gw's long range, high priority attacks. The only moves that olimar has that will outrange or beat gw's moves consistently are his up b and his up air. Other than his pikmin tossing (which we already covered), he has almost nothing to approach with (keep in mind we removed grabbing from the equation for now).

I mentioned it earlier, but you are forgetting Fsmash. Olimar has one of the farthest reaching (if not the farthest reaching) Fsmash in the game. G&W spends a lot of time in the air using Fair and Bair, I've had success landing a Fsmashes to keep distance.

I'd rate this 55/45 G&W. I've gotten in a reasonable amount of practice with this matchup, and it really isn't that bad. Ya just have to stay really, really focused. It's kinda like diddy (who I think we should cover next if we haven't already): one player can rack up about 50% on the other in a matter of seconds if they know how to capitalize on even the slightest mistake.

 

[Excellence]

This is Brawl, not Melee.

Everytime I see some poor ******* post This is not Melee," it really pisses me off because hell, COMBOS EXIST! A combo doesn't have to be something inescapeable, and if you're under that misconception you need to go pull out a dictionary and read the defintion. Don't even say the definition of a ****ing Melee combo because as you said, this is BRAWL - redefine your definition. Want a combo?

Edgehog =/= instant death.

Olimar isn't limited to one specific zone - you can camp at long range and fight at mid range. You just have to get out of close range encounters to avoid dthrow-dsmash but you can still techroll that.G&W isn't impossible or anything... At least, I don't feel the matchup is that one-sided.

Dsmash has huge range but can be shieldgrabbed. Playing defensively, waiting for an oppertunity to shieldgrab and getting G&W above me worked decently for me. And fsmash walls did pretty well too o.o

Okay, people tell me how you intend to get in the air with Mr. Game & Watch around, that's what I mean by zone - you're limited to safe ground play - the air is too dangerous. And no, the match-up isn't impossible because I beat noobs all the time, and me being a noob myself that says something.

In my opinion, it's easy to push Olimar to the edge of the stage, pressure him into a roll and finish him off with DSmash. It may be effective to shield grab, but I still don't think it's enough to give you some sort of advantage.

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXJZuyqXKow

Because Hylian lost, I'm assuming you're against my claim? Hylian edgehogged Stilz early in the match which shows you how easy it is when well timed. If Hylian timed those ledgehogs a little better he'd probably have got in another hog. You can say that Olimar isn't easy to edgehog, but he is, people have just figured out ways to avoid where in other characters there isn't much a need to.

In reguards to the video, Hylian is WAY too agressive, and he/she knows it because Emblem Lord was so kind as to disect his match against Marth to show him. Olimar, who is probably more defensive than Marth, is also extremely difficult to play agressive against. Aside from that did you see the stage? It was Battlefield, Olimar's best stage.

 

[DanGR]

Everyone- Sorry I'm bad at explaining things. I don't make things clear enough often.

This does not make ANY sense at all. Marth having "safe approaches" ? What are these? If it involves Dancing Blade / Fair those are punishable. Marth is played best as a defensive character; punishing opponent's mistakes as the game goes along.

MK has the best pressure game in Brawl followed by G&W. They are probably the only two characters that can play very aggressively and get away with it despite Brawl's very defensive nature.

MK and G&W also have better gimping games than Marth and so do characters like ROB. I'm very confused.

If Marth had NO safe approaches, he'd be just like all the other characters that Olimar has 70-30 matchups against.

From my experience playing matches, watching matches live, and watching recorded matches, Marth has a couple safe approaches. Technically he doesn't, but he's got so many options that it's too hard to predict which one he'll choose.

A properly spaced double fair wall happens to be one of the safe approach options that Marth has. This usually doesn't work against most characters, but it does v Oli. If he jumps and fairs immediately after the falling fair, it'll knock away any grab, fsmash, or upsmash retaliation. Dancing blade works well to counter against grabs as well. (not having grab armor and all)

If your shield is down at all, double fair to dancing blade is too good to do anything against it. The fairs will pressure you into shielding, and the dancing blade will interupt any grabbing. The down portion(green) pokes shields well.

I never said Marth had a better gimping game than those characters. I said he has a good gimping game. This is one of the things that helps him against Olimar- as does his range, speed, and amazing versatility.

I'm sorry if you don't agree.

Maybe what some of you aren't really seeing are the other aspects of how olimar plays (not trying to say that you don't know how to play your character, read on). Lets say olimar didn't have a long grab reach, and that he had a grab reach similiar to say gw's for sake of argument. How would he fair in the matchup?

Well, that would mean...
-no shieldgrabbing the turtle, one of your most reliable approaches
-no pivotgrabs on defense.
-harder time landing the grab for a throw kill
-harder time landing a grab for comboing (very big)
-much shorter combos

The matchup would be very onesided. GaW would have about a 70-30 to 80-20 matchup against Oli imo. Grab is Olimar's best move. It's the best grab in the game. It's one of the best attacks in the game imo. It can make or break him.

As far as his camping ability, its quite easy for gw to nullify that with either a dtilt or a nair. Nair makes it incredibly easy for any latched pikmin to be expelled because it hits all around his body. GW can even approach by simply sh'ing nairs at oli on the way to him because this move autocancels very quickly and there wouldn't be much time before gw is in the air again.

For the most part, that's very true, though you'd have to be more careful when you get closer to oli, because we can grab dtilt and nair spammage. It's not just as easy as "simply sh'ing nairs".

Also, you have to realize that the pikmin aren't neccesarily our source of damage. The damage is an added benifit. They're just there to ensure that you're pressured into using attacks such as nair and dtilt that can be punished, (not very easily though) and also to force you to approach. Nothing else.

His general high priority, low range cc skills are mostly nullified by gw's long range, high priority attacks. The only moves that olimar has that will outrange or beat gw's moves consistently are his up b and his up air. Other than his pikmin tossing (which we already covered), he has almost nothing to approach with (keep in mind we removed grabbing from the equation for now).

Fsmash is a great spacing tool as well. As are SHfairs. The turtle technically outranges our fair, but that's a bair v a fair. It's...different, to say the least.

Lets look at recoveries. You guys know well enough that olimar's recovery sucks. Its not the worst in the game, but its quite easily gimped. Things that can gimp it? Quick hitting moves with good reach that knock olimar back out... fair. Long range quick attacks near the ledge to eat dj attempts... dtilt. Offensive up b to cover sneak attempts from the olimar to get to the edge... gw has that as well. I feel as though gw is more than equipped to handle olimars recovery. As far as i know, olimar has little to edgeguard gw, mainly because he can go so low to recover vs olimar. Is there any weight to his grab going below the edge? or is this to difficult to perform most of the time?

True, though I'd like to hear more about GaW's offstage options against a recovering Oli. The whistle is quite underestimated.

The only other thing i can think of is quirks like his down b having super armor. Super armor is excellent against high lag, powerful, one hitting attacks that leave players open. Say, against a dk it would be excellent against his giant punch or whatnot. However, gw's use a lot of multi hitting attacks to approach (turtle is no surprise, nair, uair), which can really hurt the super armor approach. Other than against smash attacks and the fair, im not sure how well the SA approach will work.

His whistle can be used effectively against every nonmultihit attack in the game. We can just airdodge the high lag and powerful attacks. We still take the damage when we whistle. There's no reason to use the whistle there.

Against longlasting attacks such as sheik's, yoshi's, and luigi's nair, the whistle will cancel the hitbox,(still taking damage) as if the attack really did hit the opponent. After landing the hit, the hitbox vanishes.

The beauty of Olimar's whistle is that it actually can be used to punish very low lag attacks such as an fsmash or an upsmash from GaW. The whistle has extremely little lag as well.

Think about it this way, you hit Olimar with a dsmash. He takes no knockback. If you have any lag,(anything more than MK's dsmash) we'll use any attack we choose to punish you, which can include any of our most reliable killers.

Also how well does olimar do vs the up air? Someone mentioned that the dair works well against the up air (personally i've never seen it but ddd's can do something similiar so i wouldn't be surprised, i'll take your word for it). As far as i can remember the dair doesn't increase your falling speed right? Thus wouldn't doing a dair leave you really open for a nair immediately after the up air?

I don't understand.:O

edit: at the end of this vid maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNtIILstZQ&feature=related

If i had to rate this matchup, without olimar's grab included, i would say it was extrememly one sided. Olimar's main approaches and quirks seem pretty nullified by gw, oli can't edgeguard gw, and i feel as though gw can edgeguard olimar pretty **** well. Its probably somewhere between 7-3 and 8-2 for gw w/o his grab.

I agree, though Olimar doesn't get most of his kills through edgeguarding anyways. Oli can kill GaW from a purple upsmash at less than 80% on FD, or through a purple upthrow at somewhere around 100. I'll have to go check the exact numbers.

Now lets think about how the grab actually affects this matchup, and does it make enough of a difference for it to be an even matchup? First off, it gives him an amazing approach, i can agree with that. I play olimar a lot and i use his grab way more than most characters, and for good reason, its sick. OOS, i feel as though against gw's turtle its good, but not good enough as it is possible to outspace your grab.

It's quite easy to shieldgrab the turtle. A simple and very quick run into a shield can ruin your spacing. If you use the turtle to approach, you should be expecting a shieldgrab.

If i decide to land behind you with a nair, you wouldn't be able to turn around a grab before i grabbed you i don't think.

True, but because of Olimar's small size, speed, and versatitly, it's very hard to get that close to Olimar anyways. It's not as simple as landing a nair on his backside and then grabbing. It's more like, if you ever get the chance Shnair straight over his back, then grabbing would be a good choice.

Because gw has quite a bit of aerial movement, its difficult for olimar to run away and grab most of the time, especially when you consider how much reach the turtle has.

The turtle is no problem. I see it as a weaker version of ike's fair.

In conclusion, his grab definitely makes up an integral part of this matchup, but i don't feel its enough to make it even. As i have stated in our matchup thread, 6-4 gw feels like an accurate depiction of the matchup for the reasons stated above. Please, counter arguements welcome, considering im not an olimar master and i do make mistakes and misjudgements.

I don't agree. :/

Sure thing. I'm no GaW expert either. I make mistakes as well, and I like debates.

I wrote this kind of quick. Just point out any obvious errors I made, and I'll address them.

edit: @excellence-

 

[Excellence]

edit: @excellence-

What does this picture have to do with me? Are you trying to say I'm a joker-themed cat or...

 

[DanGR]

Lol, no. It just seems like you're always aggravated by something. You never joke around or anything.

"Everytime I see some poor ******* post"

"Don't even say the definition of a ****ing Melee combo"

Life's too short. Lighten up.

 

[Barge]

</3 turtle and fish bowl. And whatever the hell he holds in fair (bread box)?

 

[Barge]

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXJZuyqXKow

Wow, I dont know if it was just me, but the audio was off. And they spent 1 minute picking a stage, could have at least cut that part off

Edit: Can't delete a post? -_-

 

[Puddin]

Lol, no. It just seems like you're always aggravated by something. You never joke around or anything.

"Everytime I see some poor ******* post"

"Don't even say the definition of a ****ing Melee combo"

Life's too short. Lighten up.

Exactly! Life is not long enough for one to develop the ultimate 0 death Melee combo, therefore we must devote every second of said life to discovering it!

 

[DanGR]

^Umm, exactly...

Wolf actually has a 0-death COMBO on DDD. It's something like bair>upair>bair>bair>bair>bair>sideb. look it up on youtube.

Edit: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQwUxGCcmQ It's really upair, bair, upair, bair, bair, sideb

 

[Kyas]

Because Hylian lost, I'm assuming you're against my claim? Hylian edgehogged Stilz early in the match which shows you how easy it is when well timed. If Hylian timed those ledgehogs a little better he'd probably have got in another hog. You can say that Olimar isn't easy to edgehog, but he is, people have just figured out ways to avoid where in other characters there isn't much a need to.

In reguards to the video, Hylian is WAY too agressive, and he/she knows it because Emblem Lord was so kind as to disect his match against Marth to show him. Olimar, who is probably more defensive than Marth, is also extremely difficult to play agressive against. Aside from that did you see the stage? It was Battlefield, Olimar's best stage.

I suppose that was a rather douchy way to express my dissent. Yes, I do disagree with your statement that the matchup is 6:4 in favor of G&W.

Battlefield is a good stage for G&W, as well: he can platform cancel most of his arials in order to continue combos. If there was any advantage on Olimar's part, it was minimal. Also, what else can G&W do but be aggressive?

Besides, Stiltz 2-stocked Hylian (who is, in fact, male; I've played with him before) on FD in round 3.

 

[Excellence]

Lol, no. It just seems like you're always aggravated by something. You never joke around or anything.

"Everytime I see some poor ******* post"

"Don't even say the definition of a ****ing Melee combo"

Life's too short. Lighten up.

You know what, you're so right I am usually aggravated, annoyed, or frustrated with someone before I post. I might go as far as to say that it's somewhat motivating for me to post. Reguardless, I will try to 'lighten up' for my own good.

I suppose that was a rather douchy way to express my dissent. Yes, I do disagree with your statement that the matchup is 6:4 in favor of G&W.

Battlefield is a good stage for G&W, as well: he can platform cancel most of his arials in order to continue combos. If there was any advantage on Olimar's part, it was minimal. Also, what else can G&W do but be aggressive?

Besides, Stiltz 2-stocked Hylian (who is, in fact, male; I've played with him before) on FD in round 3.

Olimar is very good on Battlefield. The platforms all abuse of UpTilt, Up Air, and UpSmash which are all very good moves for Olimar. I don't think I need to elaborate on potential uses for UpSmash because I know you know them and probably a few I'm missing or don't.

The small stage means GaW cannot retreat using his UpB and get away safely. If he lands on a platform you can almost be assured that Olimar is going to hurt you with something, probably Up Air unless he kills you with Up Smash. There's a limited use of Key on GaW's part because he's got three platforms blocking his way and he cannot hit Olimar through a platform because he's so short. See what I mean now?

Mr. Game and Watch can be not agressive in the same way Meta Knight does, playing a smart offensive. I know that sounds contradicting but you can attack, retreat and punish instead of attack, attack, attack, hammer, and gimp. I think a better would may have been cautious.

I didn't even know about the three stock on Final Destination so thats a bit of a strike on my argument. Then again, I bet Hylian was still the extremely agressive GaW that he always is. If you want examples of what I mean, check the GaW threads and look for Emblem Lords analysis on Hylian's match against Roy_R a defensive Marth.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This matchup I think is more than 6/4 in favor of G&W. Maybe 7/3. And I've really played this matchup a lot.

BF is better for G&W than it is for Olimar. It's because G&W is simply a lot better at punishing things above him. He can N-air through the platform and if you try to jump out of shield, you will easily get Up-Bed or U-air stalled. Also, it means less time dealing with Olimar's camping and grab game to an extent. You also must put this into perspective. How does Olimar get past both G&W's U-air and N-air, two moves which are very difficult to air dodge and do up to 17% when they hit? Up-B also is very good for getting Olimar off stage where he is at a pretty significant disadvantage. The platforms also give G&W a way AROUND Olimar's U-smash. G&W can simply shield and Up-B OOS and on the top platform Olimar isn't going to be U-smashing there. Olimar's U-air has multiple hits, so you can SDI out of it.

In my post at the other thread, basically I summed up how G&W has two attacks that Olimar has a hard time dealing with. The D-tilt cannot be punished at all unless if G&W uses it repeatedly and Olimar goes for a grab, and a grab only. B-air on the other hand can punish ANYTHING Olimar does. These aren't G&W's only means of pressure, as he can usually do stuff like N-air -> D-air which is likely to shieldstab, or leaves him the option of jumping away if the N-air missed Olimar. G&W also happens to be one of the best edgeguarders, while Oliamr has one of the worst recoveries. A well placed F-air is pretty dangerous to Olimar's recovery.

 

[cutter]

Not ONCE did I say "combos don't exist in Brawl". They're still around. However they are BY FAR harder to do in Brawl because of the greatly reduced hitstun. The majority of combos in Brawl are pre-programmed multi-hit moves or simple strings of a few moves that do minor damage.

A competent player can escape attempts at combos in Brawl because of airdodging or just being able to do a quick move back to interrupt the said attempt at a combo.

*vid*

You can airdodge out of the 4th hit. Even if you manage to get this whole thing off you commit suicide.

 

[Snail]

Okay, people tell me how you intend to get in the air with Mr. Game & Watch around, that's what I mean by zone - you're limited to safe ground play - the air is too dangerous. And no, the match-up isn't impossible because I beat noobs all the time, and me being a noob myself that says something.

In my opinion, it's easy to push Olimar to the edge of the stage, pressure him into a roll and finish him off with DSmash. It may be effective to shield grab, but I still don't think it's enough to give you some sort of advantage.

Wow, you don't have to be an *** about it. If you disagree, that's fine, but seriously...

"The matchup is impossible because I constantly lose to G&W players better than me, and me thinking I'm a good player that says something!"

See whut i did thar?

 

[DanGR]

How is GaW supposed to approach safely? I had an arguement with a friend about this. "GaW doesn't have any safe approaches" he said. I said "Sure he does." He said, "Like what..."

I couldn't think of any.

-Bair, fair, dair, and nair are shieldgrabbed.
-If he's too high off the ground, a simple upair or upb should do the trick.
-No special moves can be used to approach.
-Nair over the back of Olimar into a grab is too far fetched. He's not going to be close enough to pull this off. Olimar will be constantly spacing with fsmashes, grabs, and pivotgrabs too much.

Thoughts?

 

[cutter]

Not a single character in this game has a 100% safe approach. MK and G&W have really good approaches and are the two best approachers but even their approaches are punished because of very low shieldstun and easy powershielding.

Any character can punish any non-grab move in this game just by powershielding.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Olimars shilded grabs & grab range alongside his constant back to back F/D/Usmash spacing if need be, should mess GW's simple layout of approaches completly up. Only thing he could do is throw bacon, try to confuse you partially. Or SH Bairs to shield poke. Could Nair or use a lagged key perhaps. But I don't know, i'm not a expert on the matter regarding the 2 vs each other. (It does sound good on paper if anything)

I'm with DanGR a 100 overall though. If you play it according to Olimars strentghs against GW's weaknesses, You shouldnt have much a problem with GW in my eyes.

 

[DanGR]

Not a single character in this game has a 100% safe approach. MK and G&W have really good approaches and are the two best approachers but even their approaches are punished because of very low shieldstun and easy powershielding.

Any character can punish any non-grab move in this game just by powershielding.

The difference is that most characters have great difficulty defending against GaW's approaches. I'm saying that Olimar has a specific defending advantage against GaW because most of GaW's most reliable approaches can be simply shieldgrabbed. This helps rack damage easily.(most of his racking options start with a grab)

Olimar has to get GaW to around 80% to kill him via purple upsmash. A normal grab combo/string on GaW racks about 20-30%. You do the math. GaW has trouble approaching against the best defense in the game. Does this not even matter?

 

[omegablackmage]

can someone list the safe approaches olimar has?

 

[Snail]

can someone list the safe approaches olimar has?

Grab.

Why would we want to approach anyway? We have pikmin spam :/

 

[Kyas]

can someone list the safe approaches olimar has?

Olimar is mostly a defensive character who is supposed to wait for the opponent to attack him. However, in certain matchups like Snake, the main approach you'll have to use is pikmin throw to shieldgrab. Otherwise, just wait for them to do something and counter.

 

[Neb]

How is GaW supposed to approach safely? I had an arguement with a friend about this. "GaW doesn't have any safe approaches" he said. I said "Sure he does." He said, "Like what..."

I couldn't think of any.

-Bair, fair, dair, and nair are shieldgrabbed.
-If he's too high off the ground, a simple upair or upb should do the trick.
-No special moves can be used to approach.
-Nair over the back of Olimar into a grab is too far fetched. He's not going to be close enough to pull this off. Olimar will be constantly spacing with fsmashes, grabs, and pivotgrabs too much.

Thoughts?

|G&W Approaches.
+Tightly spaced, full hoped bairs. They can't be punished even by a pivot grab, the G&W could easily just jump to avoid the grab approach/land-then-spotdodge/punish the grab lag. If Olimar goes for the risky hyphen usmash, he eats dair, while up-b can be air-dodged, then followed with a FF aerial.

+Chef toss, either 2-3 foods, it neutralizes aerial/grab/pikmin toss, and smash approach, taking in account its priority, arc, and stunning hitbox. A G&W can cook some of that and approach with a mean SH/Full Hop air game that leaves Olimar intensely pressured.

+Faking approaches with empty SH's. Punish mistakes.

+Spot-dodge-canceled dashes to carpet the Olimar's grab range. From there G&W could angle an up-b during the lag and parachute cancel a bair behind Olimar for a backdoor approach that's difficult to punish. If the bair misses, it leaves G&W in a tight situation that can be avoided with another Upb.

+DI'd air-dodges.
+Nairs from behind, if they're shielded, G&W can punish with point-blank dair, or second jumped bairs. Shield that, and Olimar gets hammered, or the G&W could just fake an aerial and smash, or grab. Watch can easily mix this up with a FH bair approach into an auto-canceled nair for even less lag.
_________________________________
I'm sure there's more, but I don't wanna turn this into a tl:dr. But either way, once G&W gets Olimar into the air, its just as bad as G&W being in one of Olimar's grab chains, even though G&W can escape said chains with Upb.

 

[Homsar, a Trendy Tote Bag]

Grab.

Why would we want to approach anyway? We have pikmin spam :/

D-tilt and B-air DEVOUR pikmin. Pikmin spam isalmost worthless when Oli is too far away.

 

[Olimar369]

I love these threads, so helpful:D

 

[asob4]

D-tilt and B-air DEVOUR pikmin. Pikmin spam isalmost worthless when Oli is too far away.

which is why we can approach wwith it, closing the gap with pikmin being tossed mercilessly, while you sit and dtilt all them we will attempt to grab you out of your dtilt
of course, this is not fool-proof, and the dtilt has very little ending lag, nevertheless it is still an option for approaching if need be

 

[Excellence]

Wow, you don't have to be an *** about it. If you disagree, that's fine, but seriously...

"The matchup is impossible because I constantly lose to G&W players better than me, and me thinking I'm a good player that says something!"

See whut i did thar?

Yes I do. You've taken something I've said, spun it, and rewrote as it would apply to you. I really have to say, you did an excellent job, but if you're constantly losing to Mr. Game & Watch I suggest that you have someone explain why you suck at the match-up or enlighten you as to what you need to be focusing on.

This matchup I think is more than 6/4 in favor of G&W. Maybe 7/3. And I've really played this matchup a lot.

BF is better for G&W than it is for Olimar. It's because G&W is simply a lot better at punishing things above him. He can N-air through the platform and if you try to jump out of shield, you will easily get Up-Bed or U-air stalled. Also, it means less time dealing with Olimar's camping and grab game to an extent. You also must put this into perspective. How does Olimar get past both G&W's U-air and N-air, two moves which are very difficult to air dodge and do up to 17% when they hit? Up-B also is very good for getting Olimar off stage where he is at a pretty significant disadvantage. The platforms also give G&W a way AROUND Olimar's U-smash. G&W can simply shield and Up-B OOS and on the top platform Olimar isn't going to be U-smashing there. Olimar's U-air has multiple hits, so you can SDI out of it.

In my post at the other thread, basically I summed up how G&W has two attacks that Olimar has a hard time dealing with. The D-tilt cannot be punished at all unless if G&W uses it repeatedly and Olimar goes for a grab, and a grab only. B-air on the other hand can punish ANYTHING Olimar does. These aren't G&W's only means of pressure, as he can usually do stuff like N-air -> D-air which is likely to shieldstab, or leaves him the option of jumping away if the N-air missed Olimar. G&W also happens to be one of the best edgeguarders, while Oliamr has one of the worst recoveries. A well placed F-air is pretty dangerous to Olimar's recovery.

I don't know what to say other than, "No." You don't really seem to be understanding that Olimar will constantly be pelting you with FSmash as you try to make these approaches.

I really don't think you don't understand Olimar's abilities and because I'm pressed on time I can't point them out for you until I get the chance to edit.

 

[Kyas]

This matchup I think is more than 6/4 in favor of G&W. Maybe 7/3. And I've really played this matchup a lot.

BF is better for G&W than it is for Olimar. It's because G&W is simply a lot better at punishing things above him. He can N-air through the platform and if you try to jump out of shield, you will easily get Up-Bed or U-air stalled. Also, it means less time dealing with Olimar's camping and grab game to an extent. You also must put this into perspective. How does Olimar get past both G&W's U-air and N-air, two moves which are very difficult to air dodge and do up to 17% when they hit? Up-B also is very good for getting Olimar off stage where he is at a pretty significant disadvantage. The platforms also give G&W a way AROUND Olimar's U-smash. G&W can simply shield and Up-B OOS and on the top platform Olimar isn't going to be U-smashing there. Olimar's U-air has multiple hits, so you can SDI out of it.

In my post at the other thread, basically I summed up how G&W has two attacks that Olimar has a hard time dealing with. The D-tilt cannot be punished at all unless if G&W uses it repeatedly and Olimar goes for a grab, and a grab only. B-air on the other hand can punish ANYTHING Olimar does. These aren't G&W's only means of pressure, as he can usually do stuff like N-air -> D-air which is likely to shieldstab, or leaves him the option of jumping away if the N-air missed Olimar. G&W also happens to be one of the best edgeguarders, while Oliamr has one of the worst recoveries. A well placed F-air is pretty dangerous to Olimar's recovery.

Okay, first off, Olimar can grab G&W between dtilts when they are spammed. Olimar can effectively counter both N-air and D-air by running away and pivot grabbing as G&W reaches the floor. G&W's D-air is beaten every time by Olimar's U-air. B-air is easy for Olimar to shieldgrab or whistle if his shield is depleted. F-smash outspaces all of G&W's important attacks, and if G&W uses upB to escape usmash spam, Olimar will be there with uair when he falls back down. Uair can only be SDIed out of when Olimar hits you with its edge.

The difficulty airdodging nair (i'm not sure who you've been playing but dair is rather simple to dodge) is irrelevant to a good Olimar, who will only approach G&W from below when he is in the air, anyway.

 

[omegablackmage]

gw players don't just sit there and dtilt while waiting for olimar... its a lot easier just to intercept any pikmin you throw with a neutral air. if you see them run at you, guess what, their gunna do their one approach, grab. Seems telegraphed enough to me.

 

[IcyLight]

ugh g&w is one of the hardest matchups i have to do during a tourney, because mr. omegablackmage up there ***** me every time i vs. him xD

The main thing you need to do in this matchup is to watch out for his bair. Unless you have a full shield he will ALWAYS knock you directly out of your shield with his bair. The best option i can think of is to stay a medium range from gw, as if you were to fight a snake. Spamming grab becomes predictable so try not to spam it recklessly. Also, pikmin spam does no benefit for you in this matchup, as his nair will eat all your pikmin. If you are going to throw a pikmin make sure it's a white one and it's thrown randomly he might not expect it. Or try to throw it directly after a grab.

Speaking of grabs, never d-throw a gw he will be put into a good position to punish you for doing so. Either f-throw or u-throw unless at high % with a blue pikmin; in which b-throw will suffice.

AND REMEMBER! PURPLE UPSMASH CAN KILL GW @ ~ 90%! This is very critical if you can sneak this off and get a kill. And again, don't start spamming u-smash when you have a purple your up-throw from purp is almost as effective.

GL--i rate this matchup, personally, a 6-4 because there are very few great G&W out there but when you fight them it's a *****.

 

[Dotcom]

7 -3 Game and Watch lol. That is not correct!
that would mean Game and Watch is one of Olimar's hardest matchups( which he is not by far

 

[Olimarman]

AND REMEMBER! PURPLE UPSMASH CAN KILL GW @ ~ 90%! This is very critical if you can sneak this off and get a kill. And again, don't start spamming u-smash when you have a purple your up-throw from purp is almost as effective.

GL--i rate this matchup, personally, a 6-4 because there are very few great G&W out there but when you fight them it's a *****.

Purple usmash kills mid 60s.

6-4 is a bit of a stretch. If not neutral than 55/45 G&W. Yes his priority kills you but its all controllable. Space yourself well and abuse grabs.

 

[DanGR]

Hey guys, can we try to focus on how to play the matchup instead of the matchup odds?- like random tips and suggestions against GaW? This is a guide thread...I don't know everything.

 

[Snail]

I don't know everything.

Lies and slander! :D

 

[Kyas]

ugh g&w is one of the hardest matchups i have to do during a tourney, because mr. omegablackmage up there ***** me every time i vs. him xD

The main thing you need to do in this matchup is to watch out for his bair. Unless you have a full shield he will ALWAYS knock you directly out of your shield with his bair. The best option i can think of is to stay a medium range from gw, as if you were to fight a snake. Spamming grab becomes predictable so try not to spam it recklessly. Also, pikmin spam does no benefit for you in this matchup, as his nair will eat all your pikmin. If you are going to throw a pikmin make sure it's a white one and it's thrown randomly he might not expect it. Or try to throw it directly after a grab.

Speaking of grabs, never d-throw a gw he will be put into a good position to punish you for doing so. Either f-throw or u-throw unless at high % with a blue pikmin; in which b-throw will suffice.

AND REMEMBER! PURPLE UPSMASH CAN KILL GW @ ~ 90%! This is very critical if you can sneak this off and get a kill. And again, don't start spamming u-smash when you have a purple your up-throw from purp is almost as effective.

GL--i rate this matchup, personally, a 6-4 because there are very few great G&W out there but when you fight them it's a *****.

For the bair, Icy, I'd recommend running away and pivot grabbing. Could you explain the way G&W punishes dthrow? Also, never waste your upthrow, just in case you get a grab with a purple.