~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[Zori]

take him to luigis mansion.

 

[IcyLight]

For uair i would mean at low % just to get him above you to combo a bit. stale moves usually wears off by the time you get him to 70-80 from a single uair. at low % if you dthrow i've had g&w's punish me by getting a free fair/nair off on me before i could even move after throwing. Maybe dthrow wouldn't be so bad if you run backwards away from him directly after throwing.

 

[DanGR]

For uair i would mean at low % just to get him above you to combo a bit. stale moves usually wears off by the time you get him to 70-80 from a single uair. at low % if you dthrow i've had g&w's punish me by getting a free fair/nair off on me before i could even move after throwing. Maybe dthrow wouldn't be so bad if you run backwards away from him directly after throwing.

I have a lot of practice against this type of retaliation. Sheik's attacks are very fast and easy to time to beat out Olimar's earials. Some things you can do against this are just shield after the dthrow and shieldgrab, you can dthrow>running grab>dthrow>running grab. Basically just follow his DI and grab when he lands. If he attack's you just shieldgrab it. Don't jump in the air against it, or you'll get punished.

 

[Awex]

Avoid platforms.

This doesn't mean only counterpick FD or something. I'll describe the set I had with a G&W last tournament.

Game 1: Yoshi's - I win game 1 with 2 stock remaining. Basically I spent the majority of the match waiting under the platform to grab and combo. It limits his aerial options severely, and allowed me to control the match. Pivot grabbing away from bairs is godly, hahaha.

Game 2: Rainbow Cruise - I lose by 2 stock, this match is irrelevant though because I did not use Olimar. ;x

Game 3: Battlefield - I win with 1 stock remaining. This was a highly questionable counterpick on my part that I don't think I'll use against G&W again. But it worked for what I wanted it to. I basically tried to do the same thing as on Yoshi's. Limit his approaches with platforms. However, this match was very back and forth. Whenever I got popped into the air, I had no control. Whenever I was on the ground, I had control. Ultimately I won, but not after taking 60 damage in one period of being in the air, and landing back down to smash.

I already play a pretty defensive Olimar, and patience is key in this matchup. Patience, and staying on the ground. ;x

 

[RichBrown]

Yup, the key theme I'm seeing here is staying on the ground. If nothing else, the most important thing to note is olimar wins on the ground, G&W wins in the air. It's extremely rare I'll ever full hop an attack ever against G&W. I do a lot of shorthopping around to bait G&W into an attack. A smart G&W is probably gonna do the same thing though, trying to short hop and bait you into whiffing a grab or something like that. The beauty in this is that Olimar has the ability to be more patient and force G&W to approach a bit earlier than he would want by using forward B.

I'd still give G&W the slight edge, around 55/45 (sorry dan haha) simply because if olimar makes a mistake, it's more punishable than if G&W makes a mistake.

 

[Excellence]

Why do we not have a Snake match-up guide?

 

[CALOZ]

Why do we not have a Snake match-up guide?

agree i really want to know how to beat him or tricks of how.

Especially camping snakes XD

 

[Barge]

upair eats through his dair. (Dont know if this has been mentioned)

 

[RichBrown]

Why do we not have a Snake match-up guide?

silly goose, it's G&W's turn, snake will get his turn eventually

I don't want to get into a discussion on snake now, since after all we are supposed to be discussing G&W, but snake isn't really one of Olimar's hardest matchups. In fact, I think it's a fairly even matchup, probably leaning towards Olimar.

We can debate that more when it's snakes turn, but my main point is that I think the point of this whole weekly topic thing is to talk about the more troublesome matchups and work our way down from there. I don't think we will be discussing ganon/Cfalcon/bowser for a while either

yeah. g&w. tech the Dthrow.

 

[DanGR]

I've got a thread on camping. It's in its early stages though: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5246931#post5246931

 

[OlimarFan]

Yup, the key theme I'm seeing here is staying on the ground. If nothing else, the most important thing to note is olimar wins on the ground, G&W wins in the air. It's extremely rare I'll ever full hop an attack ever against G&W. I do a lot of shorthopping around to bait G&W into an attack. A smart G&W is probably gonna do the same thing though, trying to short hop and bait you into whiffing a grab or something like that. The beauty in this is that Olimar has the ability to be more patient and force G&W to approach a bit earlier than he would want by using forward B.

I'd still give G&W the slight edge, around 55/45 (sorry dan haha) simply because if olimar makes a mistake, it's more punishable than if G&W makes a mistake.

Why not just keep your distance and Side-B him (it)? I see nothing wrong with this and he (it) must approach you.

Why do we not have a Snake match-up guide?

agree i really want to know how to beat him or tricks of how.

Especially camping snakes XD

*off topic*

Camping snakes aren't very hard to beat as Olimar. Besides, NC-Echo made a discussion thread on Snake.

 

[Excellence]

The Snakes I play are veterans and know when to and when not to camp. They are by no means restricted to that specific type of play and recently one of them has been giving me a lot of trouble.

 

[Dyyne]

Well, whatever stage description threads we have are dead, so I'm just going to post this here, and idk if its been mentioned....well, on pictochat (maybe greengreens too, havent checked), if you grab someone while the face is blowing wind, youll move backwards, and the pikmin holding him will stay stationary w/ him. I can't test more atm, but any ideas on comboing off of it?

 

[Dotcom]

We need A Stsage discusiion thread for somethings. Where do we take ame and watch by the way. I personally think this is one of the more important things you look at when going against someone in a tourney.
Maybe a 2 neutrals, 2 counterpicks per char. But maybe that's too much. Why not just the best 3 stages. Did all of the gay man watch mainers leave?

 

[RichBrown]

why Not Just Keep Your Distance And Side-b Him (it)? I See Nothing Wrong With This And He (it) Must Approach You..

yup, The Key Theme I'm Seeing Here Is Staying On The Ground. If Nothing Else, The Most Important Thing To Note Is Olimar Wins On The Ground, G&w Wins In The Air. It's Extremely Rare I'll Ever Full Hop An Attack Ever Against G&w. I Do A Lot Of Shorthopping Around To Bait G&w Into An Attack. A Smart G&w Is Probably Gonna Do The Same Thing Though, Trying To Short Hop And Bait You Into Whiffing A Grab Or Something Like That. The Beauty In This Is That olimar Has The Ability To Be More Patient And Force G&w To Approach A Bit Earlier Than He Would Want By Using Forward B.

 

[asob4]

ok sooo on wednesday i played like a million friendlies with lee puff (an amazing GnW) and the main thing you have to do is control the stage and pray for a small one with platforms.

if you can take control then it's VERY possible for you to win. grab A LOT. shield the turtle and any other approach and do not be above him on a platform.

this is a very even match up, we went literally back and forth. an UNCHARGED purple upsmash kills GnW off the top from the bottom platform of a stage at around 88%
yoshi's island i found REALLY messed up lee's game with the moving platform, and, imo, that is the best stage against GnW.

upair through the key was a surprise to him so it helped a lot. latching while on the run is great as it is a guaranteed 2-6%

don't get caught in attacking his up air, airdodge or whistle.
try to WAC is smashes if at all possible, WAC the box when he's trying to edgeguard then go for bair or up air

still, a VERY even match up
55-45 either way for sure

 

[Barge]

I lol'd at marth "Her scaring moves"

 

[asob4]

i'm not in the thanks on the first page
makes me sad panda

 

[Awex]

We need A Stsage discusiion thread for somethings. Where do we take ame and watch by the way. I personally think this is one of the more important things you look at when going against someone in a tourney.
Maybe a 2 neutrals, 2 counterpicks per char. But maybe that's too much. Why not just the best 3 stages. Did all of the gay man watch mainers leave?

Luigi's mansion is always good. But like Skank said, Yoshi's is amazing too.

On either one though, you HAVE to be the patient one. Play defensive, the G&W will approach you.

Ian: That's pretty much exactly how I feel about the matchup, lol.

 

[asob4]

weegee's mansion is good against almost everyone, but it seems like it's not gonna be counterpick out here anymore only for doubles

cause it's 55-45 for sure duhhhh

 

[Awex]

It would make me quite sad if it becomes banned. =(

Most people already ban it against me though. >>

 

[asob4]

same here
then i'm lost cause i forget about any other good counter pick lol

EDIT*****
this was my 1000th post :D
i think :/

 

[Awex]

I've tried Corneria, but it's not the same, lol.

 

[asob4]

corneria is usually only for doubles too :/

 

[Zori]

i'm not in the thanks on the first page
makes me sad panda

same.

/10sadpandas

 

[DanGR]

i'm not in the thanks on the first page
makes me sad panda

Fixed

It would make me quite sad if it becomes banned. =(

Most people already ban it against me though. >>

I LOVE Luigi's mansion. After I whooped some peeps on it in friendlies, they began banning it. I felt so dumb for pulling it out too early. *sigh*

 

[Barge]

Might I inquire about whom we will be discussing next week?

 

[DanGR]

Umm sure. It'll be either Snake or... idk. I really want to discuss Snake. It's a fun matchup. Y'all's choice though.

 

[Barge]

Sure im fine with that, I have some input on him. And I also need some help with him.


Hopefully we'll get to discuss lucario soon, I have trouble with him

 

[asob4]

i liek snake

 

[DanGR]

Thoughts on GaW v Olimar? I was thinking 55:45 for GaW. (still even)

I figure we're done with GaW. We;re starting snake week early. discuss!

I feel kinda bad waiting until I update to add my thoughts to the matchup. I think I'll begin posting in my own thread. lol.

 

[asob4]

yeah, definitely 55-45 either way. Lee Puff agreed lol

Olimar: easy to combo, easy to spike, outcamps, ***** with grab, kills early by snake standards, WAC, outranges, good kill moves

Snake: tilts are too good, survives to insane %'s, kills extremely early, great camp game, great range, great priority, long lasting aerials, lots of kill moves

basic gist of both characters to each other

imo it's oli's favor

 

[Barge]

I really think its 60:40 snake.
-Not going to add why just yet-

 

[Excellence]

I think a lot of people are talking about Snakes that camp. What about the Snakes that can MortarSlide on a dime making it near impossible to predict. Once Snake gets you boxed against the edge it's pretty much over.

Not saying its Snakes advantage though. I just think we need to get multiple types of Snakes opinion (campy, agressive, and defensive).

 

[asob4]

you can grab or smash or tilt or anything through his mortar slide as it has, i believe, the worse priority of his moves

i think aggressive ones are the easiest, then campy, the smart defensive ones are a pain in my ***

 

[cutter]

So G&W is considered a neutral matchup, but you think Marth is a 4:6 disadvantage? I'm very confused.

 

[asob4]

it's hard to explain :/
marth's edgeguarding options are harder to defend against than GnW's

GnW's are usually one hit then a tiny bit of lag to punish after a WAC
marth's on the other hand are not :/ fairfairfairfairfairfair

plus he has a more effective approach on olimar than GnW does

i tried

however, as the metagame is constantly changing, so are the match ups
i mean, at first MK was 30-70, now, after months of playing against them we see it as more of an even match up

thing is, things will change

 

[cutter]

it's hard to explain :/
marth's edgeguarding options are harder to defend against than GnW's

GnW's are usually one hit then a tiny bit of lag to punish after a WAC
marth's on the other hand are not :/ fairfairfairfairfairfair

Does that really sway the matchup as much as you think? Also Marth can't go super far offstage like G&W or MK.

plus he has a more effective approach on olimar than GnW does

Name ONE good approach Marth has against Olimar. I'll give you a hint:

Spoiler

He has none.

i tried

EL coerce you into admitting a 6:4 Marth advantage?

 

[TheWii]

If you can get a grab on Snake hes doomed but its much harder than usual because of his broken range on ftilt, if you try to shieldgrab after the first hit you will get hit by the second hit because of the broken range. Same thing if you run to him, you will not grab him first hes the one thats gonna ftilt you. Pivot grabs solves this problem but you cant pivot grab all the time because then he will know what you are up to.

But Snake is a big target so Pikmin spamming will distract him so that you can go in for a grab.

I play the smart defensive Snake, he really good. Hes the fu*cking king of grenades lol!

I would say 60:40 (Olimars favor) if you are meeting the aggressive type, 55:45 if you are meeting the smart defensive one.

 

[asob4]

Does that really sway the matchup as much as you think? Also Marth can't go super far offstage like G&W or MK.

does he really need to go far offstage vs olimar? fair>fair in quick succession while falling > edgehog
it will ruin any olimar

Name ONE good approach Marth has against Olimar. I'll give you a hint:

Spoiler

He has none.

fair>sideb works unusually well against olimar, and that's all he needs really

EL coerce you into admitting a 6:4 Marth advantage?

his fair alone is reason enough for a disadvantage