The Old Counter Game

[TehBo49]

That Swalot has 572 EVs on it. Either way @ Swalot

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Modest
Levitate
124 HP/128 Def/128 Sp Atk/128 Sp Def
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

Psychic 3HKOs at worst while your best attack to KO me is Ice Beam which will kill me off in about 6 turns if I don't use Calm Mind.

 

[Pink Reaper]

@Mesprit

Absol@Leftovers
Adamant/Super Luck
252Atk/252SpDef/4Hp
-Sucker Punch
-Punishment
-Swords Dance
-Rock Tomb

After a single calm mind Punishment has a BP of 100 hitting your unboosted Defense stat.

 

[Platypus]

Finally, we're ringing in Page 100 with style.

I'm short of time here.

 

[0RLY]

@ Absol:

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Adamant/Mold Breaker
252atk/208spe/48def
-EQ
-Head Smash
-Fire Punch (Pt Tutor)
-Substitute

Punishment fails to 2hko. Sub to avoid the punch, and any attack will KO.

 

[Pink Reaper]

That would so work if you weren't OHKO'd by a Sword Danced Sucker Punch and since Sucker Punch has priority, you never actually get the chance to hit me.

 

[sonofthesky]

Sub much?

100 page post.

 

[0RLY]

Posting on 100th page.

 

[Pink Reaper]

@ Absol:

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Adamant/Mold Breaker
252atk/208spe/48def
-EQ
-Head Smash
-Fire Punch (Pt Tutor)
-Substitute

Punishment fails to 2hko. Sub to avoid the punch, and any attack will KO.

Rhyperior@Life Orb
Jolly/Solid Rock
176tk/252Spe/80Def
-Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Ice Punch

Outspeeds you(barely) and manages a OHKO with earthquake. Rock Polish guarantees I'll be faster than pretty much everything. I had alot harder time with this than I thought i would

 

[IC3R]

Rhyperior@Life Orb
Jolly/Solid Rock
176tk/252Spe/80Def
-Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Ice Punch

Outspeeds you(barely) and manages a OHKO with earthquake. Rock Polish guarantees I'll be faster than pretty much everything. I had alot harder time with this than I thought i would

Well done, Reaper. Very well done...
I applaud you...

But, that Life Orb is going to be the bane of your existance; either that, or I will be...

Claydol @ Leftovers
Bold / Levitate
EVs - 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spd
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Calm Mind
~Rest

Okay, I'm going off of the assumption that you switched into 0Rly's Rampy when it used EQ (which I'm sure you did too), which leaves you with like 40-90 HP. Now, I'm assuming you'd predict a flier or levitator to switch into an EQ, and therefore Stone Edge or Ice Punch. Stone Edge does jack squat, and you can't even 2HKO me with Ice Punch, and after the recoil from your Life Orb, you'd end up KOing yourself. I have one more Speed point than you, so I could KO you with Ice Beam. Should you decide to Rock Polish on my switch-in or at any other time, I could use Calm Mind. After I'm hit twice, I can Rest.

You gotta be careful with those Life Orbs...

 

[zrky]

Well done, Reaper. Very well done...
I applaud you...

But, that Life Orb is going to be the bane of your existance; either that, or I will be...

Claydol @ Leftovers
Bold / Levitate
EVs - 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spd
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Calm Mind
~Rest

Okay, I'm going off of the assumption that you switched into 0Rly's Rampy when it used EQ (which I'm sure you did too), which leaves you with like 40-90 HP. Now, I'm assuming you'd predict a flier or levitator to switch into an EQ, and therefore Stone Edge or Ice Punch. Stone Edge does jack squat, and you can't even 2HKO me with Ice Punch, and after the recoil from your Life Orb, you'd end up KOing yourself. I have one more Speed point than you, so I could KO you with Ice Beam. Should you decide to Rock Polish on my switch-in or at any other time, I could use Calm Mind. After I'm hit twice, I can Rest.

You gotta be careful with those Life Orbs...

Wiscash@splashplate
mild/anticipation
252Speed/100HP/50spAtk
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Double Team
-Rain Dance

im not the best, but I kind of try
yay 100 pages

 

[Pink Reaper]

Well done, Reaper. Very well done...
I applaud you...

But, that Life Orb is going to be the bane of your existance; either that, or I will be...

Claydol @ Leftovers
Bold / Levitate
EVs - 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spd
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Calm Mind
~Rest

Okay, I'm going off of the assumption that you switched into 0Rly's Rampy when it used EQ (which I'm sure you did too), which leaves you with like 40-90 HP. Now, I'm assuming you'd predict a flier or levitator to switch into an EQ, and therefore Stone Edge or Ice Punch. Stone Edge does jack squat, and you can't even 2HKO me with Ice Punch, and after the recoil from your Life Orb, you'd end up KOing yourself. I have one more Speed point than you, so I could KO you with Ice Beam. Should you decide to Rock Polish on my switch-in or at any other time, I could use Calm Mind. After I'm hit twice, I can Rest.

You gotta be careful with those Life Orbs...

IC3R, you and me both know this is not how the counter game works. When a new pokemon becomes the counter you have to act like its fresh at 100% health.

 

[zrky]

Reap, would my counter work? as youve probably seen, im not good at this stuff i.e.: to many EV's accidental 5 moves, stuff like that

 

[Pink Reaper]

your a hundred EV's short. I don't have time to run calcs, i have to go to work.

 

[boo836]

Wiscash@splashplate
mild/anticipation
252Speed/100HP/50spAtk
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Double Team
-Rain Dance

im not the best, but I kind of try
yay 100 pages

Just counter first set.

Mantine: @ leftovers
Calm nature
Water absorb
252 hp, 120 spatt, 132 spdef
-Hp [grass]
-Surf
-Rest
-Sleep talk

Just another counter:

Mantine:@ leftovers
Calm nature
Swift swim
252 hp, 120 spatt, 132 spdef
-Surf
-Hp [grass]
-Rest
-Sleep talk

First one just eats your attacks. Second can use Rain dance to an advantage.

 

[IC3R]

IC3R, you and me both know this is not how the counter game works. When a new pokemon becomes the counter you have to act like its fresh at 100% health.

Well, either way, I win Rest > Life Orb lol

Which makes me wonder: when did the Single-Move Choice Item Rule start? It takes all the fun out of prediction IMO...



@ zrky: Cool avatar, and yes, your Whiscash does work (aside from the fact Double Team is a banned move). If you threw the remaining EVs into SpAtt, you could finish me faster than I calculated out.

@ boo: Pick one counter and stick with it, please...

 

[zrky]

@ zrky: Cool avatar, and yes, your Whiscash does work (aside from the fact Double Team is a banned move). If you threw the remaining EVs into SpAtt, you could finish me faster than I calculated out.

thanks, double team is banned? I dont keep up with competitive stuff, or if it's in the rules I didn't see it

your a hundred EV's short. I don't have time to run calcs, i have to go to work.

so we have to have a certain # of EV's?

 

[Pink Reaper]

Well, either way, I win Rest > Life Orb lol

Which makes me wonder: when did the Single-Move Choice Item Rule start? It takes all the fun out of prediction IMO...

The Single-Move Choice Item started from an older rule stating that, because your choiced, you have to declare which move your using. As such it was meaningless to have more than one move on a choice counter.

 

[TehBo49]

@ Mantine (either one)

Registeel @ Leftovers
Adamant
Clear Body
128 HP/252 Atk/64 Def/64 Sp Def
-Brick Break
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch

 

[Zook]

Completely off-topic, but I just wanna say... IT'S MY SNIFFLES SET!

Claydol @ Leftovers
Bold / Levitate
EVs - 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spd
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Calm Mind
~Rest

 

[Pink Reaper]

@ Mantine (either one)

Registeel @ Leftovers
Adamant
Clear Body
128 HP/252 Atk/64 Def/64 Sp Def
-Brick Break
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch

Weezing@Leftovers
Modest/Levitate
-252Hp/100Def/156SpAtk
-Will-o-Wisp
-Fire Blast
-Thunder
-Hp Water(**** YOU camperupt)

Cant really hurt me(especially after a will-o-wisp, or is that stopped by Clear Body?) and just sort of waits for you to die. Fire Blast helps to speed that up.

 

[IC3R]

The Single-Move Choice Item started from an older rule stating that, because your choiced, you have to declare which move your using. As such it was meaningless to have more than one move on a choice counter.

I thought I had already resolved the Choice issue on page 52 (Slaking vs. Azumarill).

On page 68, you brought up the "rule" that stated you must declare the Choiced attack (this was regarding a Camerupt). Really, this makes little sense. If the point of the game is to be able to effectively counter the foe, and prevent further counters from coming in, then why should I only be allowed to possess a single attack?

Example:

vs. Weezing

Electabuzz @ Choice Specs
Modest / Static
EVs - 4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Spd
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power [Ice]
~Psychic
~Focus Blast

I can switch into any of your attacks, and doesn't give a crap about Will-O-Wisp. Your Fire Blast is a 3HKO at best. My Spec'd Psychic can OHKO, and Thunderbolt can 2HKO.


Now, since I have more than one killing option, what do you do? Do you switch into a Dark type hoping I use Psychic and end up getting Focus Blast? Or do you switch into something that can absorb of nullify Thunderbolt, and end up getting HP Ice or another high-powered attack?

I brought this point up with Slaking vs. Azumarill on page 52. Azumarill couldn't switch into half of Slaking's moveset (Return or Thunderpunch), and therefore was not a viable counter. However, we only let it slide since we were already too far into the game.


Do you see what I'm getting at here?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Gabite @ Anything, it doesn't really matter

Outrage
Earthquake

Garchomp's banned so Gible beats everything else. gg

 

[Pink Reaper]

I thought I had already resolved the Choice issue on page 52 (Slaking vs. Azumarill).

On page 68, you brought up the "rule" that stated you must declare the Choiced attack (this was regarding a Camerupt). Really, this makes little sense. If the point of the game is to be able to effectively counter the foe, and prevent further counters from coming in, then why should I only be allowed to possess a single attack?

Example:

vs. Weezing

Electabuzz @ Choice Specs
Modest / Static
EVs - 4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Spd
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power [Ice]
~Psychic
~Focus Blast

I can switch into any of your attacks, and doesn't give a crap about Will-O-Wisp. Your Fire Blast is a 3HKO at best. My Spec'd Psychic can OHKO, and Thunderbolt can 2HKO.


Now, since I have more than one killing option, what do you do? Do you switch into a Dark type hoping I use Psychic and end up getting Focus Blast? Or do you switch into something that can absorb of nullify Thunderbolt, and end up getting HP Ice or another high-powered attack?

I brought this point up with Slaking vs. Azumarill on page 52. Azumarill couldn't switch into half of Slaking's moveset (Return or Thunderpunch), and therefore was not a viable counter. However, we only let it slide since we were already too far into the game.


Do you see what I'm getting at here?

In this case you have to have a full moveset that would work then. Suppose you had a choice band Garchomp, but added Fire Blast because you want to make yourself harder to counter(no Forre/Skarm/Zong) but that move doesn't counter whats already out. If this were the case someone could bring in one of those three and point out that you couldn't possibly use Fire Blast or else the last counter wouldn't have fainted/switched.

 

[IC3R]

In this case you have to have a full moveset that would work then. Suppose you had a choice band Garchomp, but added Fire Blast because you want to make yourself harder to counter (no Forre/Skarm/Zong) but that move doesn't counter whats already out. If this were the case someone could bring in one of those three and point out that you couldn't possibly use Fire Blast or else the last counter wouldn't have fainted/switched.

That makes zero sense. Again, it all comes comes down to prediction. I couldn't possibly use Fire Blast on Ninetales? Go to Shoddy and watch me do it. HAHA!!! You switched into Skarmory! HA HA ****ing HA!!! >:D

In the case with Garchomp, Fire Blast would never ever ever harm a Ninetales (as long as it has Flash Fire), but seeing Garchomp alone is enough to make anyone switch Ninetales (not carrying HP Ice) out of it, simply because it will invariably carry Earthquake. Garchomp's Fire Blast serves a single purpose: getting rid of Forry, Zong, and Skarm quickly, because they can take all of Chomps other moves relatively well.


To quote the original set of rules:

1) For a counter for Blissey, you can't just say:

Infernape @ Choice Band
Blaze
Adamant
252 Atk
- Close Combat
- filler
- filler
- filler

This is because the person that posts after you doesn't know what your posted Pokemon's other moves are, so they wouldn't know if their Pokemon counters yours or not. So, make sure to fill everything out...

...

2) Remember what a counter is: A Pokemon that can safely switch into any of the attacks from the Pokemon it wants to counter and can immediately pose a threat to the Pokemon it wants to counter or make the Pokemon it wants to counter switch-out while not being threatened in any way by the Pokemon it wants to counter.[/COLOR]

Important stuff bolded and underlined...
Celebi can take a CB STAB Close Combat from Infernape, but a Flare Blitz? No chance.

If you go back to page 52, you will see this:

As for you, Peppers: Choicers are relatively easy to counter once they have attacked, especially Slaking. However, you don't know the first attack they are going to use while you switch! As I have stated above, Azumarill can't switch into half of Slaking's moveset, and if Shadow Claw just happens to crit it, that's another possible KO move! Being unable to switch into 3/4 of Slaking's set, Azumarill was not a viable counter.

Again, important stuff bolded and underlined.

I'm just going off of the original rules, and applying them to the situation.



(Really, all my Electabuzz would need to OHKO you with Psychic is a Life Orb, I just used the Choice Specs to prove a point.)

 

[Pink Reaper]

Well, if we go by that rule, the choice items become too powerful. It essentially just gives everything 1.5x more power without the normal restrictions because of the fact that this isn't actually in game. Imagine I pulled out a Max Attack Adamant Rampardos(its happened a few times already) and stuck a choice band on it. Suddenly NOTHING can switch in on it(at least nothing on UU/BL level)

 

[0RLY]

As noted in the previous example:

Garchomp @ CS
adamant sweeper
eq
fire fang
outrage
crunch

vs.

Ninetales
whatever

counter: Skarmory w/ specs'd Icy Wind? lul

---

Okay, If the Garchomp was locked into EQ from KOing Ninetales, Skarm would easily counter. However, if you used Fire Fang to beat your counter, Skarmory, you would no longer counter Ninetales and your counter wouldn't work. A choice item locks you into one move, you must declare it because the next counter is switching in and we have to take an attack as we come in. Your counter either works or it doesn't.

 

[IC3R]

Garchomp @ CB
adamant sweeper
eq
fire fang
outrage
crunch

counter: Skarmory w/ specs'd Icy Wind? lul

lol @ Specs Skarm Icy Wind


Okay, I was thinking about this all day and night long, and I finally got the point you guys were driving. Yeah, this isn't in-game, and not all the same rules apply here. So, yeah...thanks for making me feel stupid

@ Reaper: Sandslash can take any of Max Att CB Rampy's attacks and OHKO with EQ

=========

Anyway, shall we pick up where we left off?

vs. Weezing

Electabuzz @ Shell Bell
Modest / Static
EVs - 4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Spd
~Charge Beam
~Hidden Power [Ice]
~Psychic
~Focus Blast

I can switch into any of your attacks, and doesn't give a crap about Will-O-Wisp. Your Fire Blast is a 3HKO at best. If I get the boost from Charge Beam even once, Psychic will finish you off, and it makes it even harder for a counter to come in on Buzz. It's basically me getting a Specs boost with paying for it with HP (LO) or the whole Choice deal. Shell Bell for HP restoration.

Changes in bold. Counter pl0x

 

[0RLY]

@ Electabuzz:

Gastrodon @ Focus Sash
Useless ability/Impish
252hp/128def/128sp.def
-Mirror Coat
-Counter
-Recover
-Surf

Takes your attacks without a problem, heals damage and Mirror Coats.

 

[asob4]

i remember when this thread was first made o_0
doubt anyone remembers me though

sorry can't contribute, just wanted to say that :D

 

[IC3R]

@ Electabuzz:

Gastrodon @ Focus Sash
Useless ability/Impish
252hp/128def/128sp.def
-Mirror Coat
-Counter
-Recover
-Surf

Takes your attacks without a problem, heals damage and Mirror Coats.

Toxicroak @ Shell Bell
Adamant / Dry Skin
EVs - 4 HP, 252 Att, 252 Spd
~Cross Chop
~Payback
~Swords Dance
~Taunt

All it takes is a Taunt and you're done...

 

[Platypus]

Versus Gastrodon:

Politoed w/Leftovers
Naive/Water Absorb
155 Atk./ 100 Sp. Atk./ 255 Speed
+ Focus Punch
+ Blizzard
+ Dive
+ HP Electric
FOCUS!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

i remember when this thread was first made o_0
doubt anyone remembers me though

sorry can't contribute, just wanted to say that :D

I think I actually do remember you, I traded with you...I think.

-Ter

 

[IC3R]

Someone counter my Croak, NAAAOOO!!!!!!

 

[asob4]

I think I actually do remember you, I traded with you...I think.

-Ter

i think so lol
i traded in my pearl though cause i needed money to get to axis
waiting for platinum now

and nothing counters croak lol

 

[Pink Reaper]

Toxicroak @ Shell Bell
Adamant / Dry Skin
EVs - 4 HP, 252 Att, 252 Spd
~Cross Chop
~Payback
~Swords Dance
~Taunt

All it takes is a Taunt and you're done...

Arcanine@Leftovers
Naive/Intimidate
100Atk/156SpAtk/252Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Extreme Speed
-Thunder Fang
-HP Grass

Im hungry.

 

[0RLY]

I'm pretty sure it's still possible to use Counter after being taunted, because it's technically still an attack. Focus Sash will keep me alive. Could it be...?

Dounter
Cenied.

 

[IC3R]

I'm pretty sure it's still possible to use Counter after being taunted, because it's technically still an attack. Focus Sash will keep me alive. Could it be...?

Dounter
Cenied.

Actually, no.

There are three types of techniques: Offensive, Defensive, and Support.

Examples:
Offensive - Cross Chop, Gyro Ball, Hydro Pump, Thundershock
Defensive - Rest, Whirlwind, Counter, Mirror Coat
Support - Stealth Rock, Curse, Substitute, Sing

(Source: Official Guide for Pokemon Emerald)

Taunt only allows the use of Offensive moves, meaning Surf for Gastrodon. Since Croak absorbs Water with Dry Skin, you have nothing to harm me with. Therefore, my counter works.

==============

As for Arcanine:

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Bold / Flash Fire
EVs - 196 HP, 240 Def, 60 SpAtt
~Flamethrower
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power [Ground]
~Calm Mind

I bulked up Ninetales so it can stand up against E-Speed. Calm Mind helps boost my already good SpDef stat, as well as making my attacks more devastating. The only thing I think I don't hit for neutral is Altaria, but it's gonna have a rough time with Tales anyway

 

[Pink Reaper]

My wobbuffet has been taunted and it didn't have to struggle. Guess what that means? Counter and Mirror Coat count as attacks, they work under taunt.

 

[Platypus]

Okay, then. If this is the case, then my Focus-Punching, Water-Absorbing Politoed is the current monster to counter.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'll just wait.

-Ter