The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[Z'zgashi]

If you DI yoshi's uair before the hit, they'll only move a little in the DI'd direction then go straight up anyway, so it doesn't effect it much.

 

[Depster]

If you SDI yoshi's uair before the hit, they'll only move a little in the SDI'd direction then go straight up anyway, so it doesn't effect it much.

Fixed

10fixes

 

[Yikarur]

no we mean DI lol "before the hit" that Z said is a bit misleading.

 

[Depster]

A bit? No, that just means SDI =p

 

[Yikarur]

You're wrong.
we talk about DI, DIRECTIONAL INFLUENCE, the influence you have on your angle when being hit, not SDI!

 

[Deleted member]

I think most of us would agree that Usmash is Yoshi's most reliable kill move that he can land. However, there's another move you can pull on grounded opponents if you can catch with it, and that's down-B. It kills a little bit earlier than Usmash and is a decent punisher on up close fights.

I'm actually surprised to see you playing Yoshi.

Down-B? I've killed opponents trying to kill me off the top with it before(like Espy. :3 ).

Hadesblade makes Yoshi look like a ton of fun, so I've just been playing around with him here and there. Maybe he could even help me in some MUs. How is he against D3 or Sheik?

Also, I was playing in doubles the other day on PS1. I was dairing my opponent into the stage, and I just KEPT GOING. The stage was transforming when I went straight through it. This ever happen to anyone else? If not, I'll upload a video of it.

And Burntsocks...what? :< What low tier mains am I losing to?

 

[ngfc_0]

Is it possible to know if we are doing the buffering of yoshi's GRchaingrab correctly on lvl9 CPUs?

ps: chaingrabing cpt falcon is labelled as easy on the "how to hatch a healthy yoshi" thread. But I find it as hard as falco's *cries*

 

[Depster]

If CPUs can jump out of the chaingrab they will, but some characters can still get out regardless because of their up b (like pit)

 

[Poltergust]

Hadesblade makes Yoshi look like a ton of fun, so I've just been playing around with him here and there. Maybe he could even help me in some MUs. How is he against D3 or Sheik?

He barely loses to King Dedede and goes even with Sheik. I think he loses a little to Shelda, though.

 

[Airborne]

He barely loses to King Dedede and goes even with Sheik. I think he loses a little to Shelda, though.

It could be SLIGHTLY in Sheik's favor. I play Judo every ****ing day of my life. >___<

 

[Poltergust]

Well, there's that killing issue Sheik has. That's why I think switching to Zelda for the kill move probably makes it slightly harder for us.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Well that's what Shelda is. Sheik is a character where the person who mains her uses "only" her. Like me and alot of others only go full Yoshi no matter what match up or Ditto.

 

[Yikarur]

on FD it's in sheiks favor (not that much but not even)
from playing the smar(t by upsmash somehow (DACUS is really fast >__< ) but if we assume the upsmash will hit somehow it's in Sheiks favor.
DACUS is really fast and you can't react to it so smart Sheiks will find a gap in your game and will dacus in it and kill you with it (like landing lag punishment).
I would say in Sheiks favor overall but not much. (like 55:45)

 

[Airborne]

Well, there's that killing issue Sheik has. That's why I think switching to Zelda for the kill move probably makes it slightly harder for us.

There's also that gimping thing and that thing where Sheik never lets you land ever again.

 

[Poltergust]

Eh, I don't think Yoshi will be getting gimped that much. Sheik's no MK, and if we play it safely (as in not doing a rising aerial into her d-smash) Yoshi should rarely get gimped. She also can't f-tilt lock Yoshi, so that's a plus.

Needles suck, though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I play da bess sheik IN DA WORLD and sheik is hella hard >__________________<

 

[Yikarur]

I would guess you're just hella bad.

 

[-Mars-]

on FD it's in sheiks favor (not that much but not even)
from playing the smar(t by upsmash somehow (DACUS is really fast >__< ) but if we assume the upsmash will hit somehow it's in Sheiks favor.
DACUS is really fast and you can't react to it so smart Sheiks will find a gap in your game and will dacus in it and kill you with it (like landing lag punishment).
I would say in Sheiks favor overall but not much. (like 55:45)

On FD can't Yoshi GR Sheik across the stage into a spike? Nah there isn't anything on FD that would make it Sheiks advantage except maybe giving me more space to work with but Yoshi has such great mobility it doesn't matter anyway.

If you want a stage where Sheik wins though imo its Halberd since I have GR>DACUS tippers on the slant parts.

Also DACUS isn't safe at all unless your opponent is airborne....even then I tend to not use it much unless it's guaranteed out of a GR. I see too many Sheiks DACUSing around everywhere like morons it saddens me.

I agree with Polt that this matchup is not in Sheiks favor. I happen to think it's Yoshi advantage.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^^^ IT'S DAT SHEIK!!!

And yoshi has zero stuff with GR on sheik, that's why I never try anything...

And I dont see how yoshi has the advantage, but okay... You own me pretty bad >.>

 

[bigman40]

We can't CG Sheik, but we can GR > Fair spike from over the ledge.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I didn't know about the fair spike tbh, but i doubt it would be easy to pull off on a good sheik.

 

[-Mars-]

^^^ IT'S DAT SHEIK!!!

And yoshi has zero stuff with GR on sheik, that's why I never try anything...

And I dont see how yoshi has the advantage, but okay... You own me pretty bad >.>

That's just cuz your learning and stuff. Once you reach a certain level you'll see how bad Sheik is and start ****** me haha xD.

I didn't know about the fair spike tbh, but i doubt it would be easy to pull off on a good sheik.

It's guaranteed so quality of opponent doesn't matter. Like Sheiks GR on MK...it doesn't matter how good the MK is just as long as I do it right it works.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well, the release only works on the ledge, so if you stay away from ledges when we're on equal ground, I cant get it. That's what I meant.

 

[Airborne]

Eh, I don't think Yoshi will be getting gimped that much. Sheik's no MK, and if we play it safely (as in not doing a rising aerial into her d-smash) Yoshi should rarely get gimped. She also can't f-tilt lock Yoshi, so that's a plus.

Needles suck, though.

Play a Sheik that knows the MU. You WILL get gimped. Ask Hades. Sheik is the best at gimping in the whole game (aside from little bi-- I mean, Metaknight) and she has quite a few options when she has us cornered to one side of the stage, due to her insane vertical speed. More often than anything, people will be looking for footstools in this MU since her moves take forever to knock us out of our Heavy Armor.

Also, yes, she can f-tilt lock us starting at 30; it just doesn't last as long as ftilt locking a fastfaller. However, provided with dat IN/KY DI, Sheik can't kill us with ftilt->usmash until the Usmash knocks us into ~130%. Even then, it is still very possible to DI into the second hit of Usmash, saving us from dying 'til even later.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont get gimped by sheik

 

[Sinister Slush]

Was Playing Nikes Sheik last Wednesday, His Sheik is decent, and even though I didn't know the MU still had a problem with it. I don't believe I was gimped all that much.

Maybe the occasional one or two times when I had a stock lead and tried to Fair him, Not quite sure.

 

[Poltergust]

Play a Sheik that knows the MU. You WILL get gimped. Ask Hades. Sheik is the best at gimping in the whole game (aside from little bi-- I mean, Metaknight) and she has quite a few options when she has us cornered to one side of the stage, due to her insane vertical speed. More often than anything, people will be looking for footstools in this MU since her moves take forever to knock us out of our Heavy Armor.

Also, yes, she can f-tilt lock us starting at 30; it just doesn't last as long as ftilt locking a fastfaller. However, provided with dat IN/KY DI, Sheik can't kill us with ftilt->usmash until the Usmash knocks us into ~130%. Even then, it is still very possible to DI into the second hit of Usmash, saving us from dying 'til even later.

She may have good vertical speed, but her lackluster horizontal speed makes it not nearly as much as a threat. Her aerials also have limited range. She really can't gimp us as long as we still have our double-jump, and she can't get us if we recover high, either.

No, Sheik can't f-tilt lock Yoshi. Yoshi can always DJ out of it, and if he's hit with another f-tilt then he can counter with an n-air.

Was Playing Nikes Sheik last Wednesday, His Sheik is decent, and even though I didn't know the MU still had a problem with it. I don't believe I was gimped all that much.

Maybe the occasional one or two times when I had a stock lead and tried to Fair him, Not quite sure.

What about when you played against me at Laurel's Ragequit? I gimped you a few times, but it was really due to you recovering very unsafely.

 

[Sinister Slush]

What about when you played against me at Laurel's Ragequit? I gimped you a few times, but it was really due to you recovering very unsafely.

Didn't know MU, and Literally First time playing sheik in Brawl. Never played one until that tournament.
Even back from my Wifi days in 2008-2009 on Rel's forum.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Sheik can ftilt > utilt yoshi though.

 

[smokey da bear]

I was looking at some yoshi videos and i was just wondering if you guys knew why yoshi players dont hit people after they are put into a egg and instead just wait for them to come out before hitting them - i know yoshi doesnt give as much damage if he hits them while theyre in it but most times people missed the moves they did when the other person came out of the egg so why not just hit them while theyre in it or is there another reason =/

 

[Airborne]

Sheik can Ftilt Yoshi 3 times at a time, which can then be followed up by some more bullsh*t. This comes from Judo.

Also, her horizontal air speed has NOTHING to do with gimping us. Imagine that a wall is between you and the stage that you so desire to recover to... NOW HOW THE F*CK ARE YOU GOING TO GO THROUGH A F*CKING WALL??? She has, at least, top 2 vertical air acceleration and speed in the game, allowing her to cover several recovery options at once. Her ground speed compensates for her terrible horizontal air speed in the sense that you can NEVER escape her. In fact, EVERY character in the game has a hard time escaping from Sheik.

The only ways that Sheik's horizontal air speed really cripples her is when she's in a bad position, such as when she's trying to land safely onto the stage or just recover from offstage in general.

Now, I'll show you the Yomi behind why and how Sheik gimps us easier than other characters do:

1st layer: Our heavy armor is amazing at helping us recover because it allows us to absorb attacks and further progress onto the stage. This works better against Sheik because her moves don't produce nearly as much knockback (hence her lack of efficient kill power).

2nd layer: Footstool beats heavy armor because we are doing nothing but jumping; if we attempt to do anything out of our double jump, we lose our heavy armor.
Alternate to 2nd layer: We are at an extremely high percent, so Sheik can now knock us out of heavy armor.

3rd layer: We can airdodge to avoid the footstool animation or airdodge through Sheik's attack. However, doing this now eliminates our heavy armor, so Sheik can now use this against us. HOWEVER, this is most like THE best option to recovering against Sheik!
Alternate to 3rd layer: We can throw out an attack to prevent Sheik from footstooling us (generally Uair or Fair, provided the situation). This is the high-risk high-reward option, due to the fact that we are now more vulnerable in this position than any other option, but we can punish Sheik for attempting to footstool us. It only covers this ONE option.

Now, sure we can recover as high as Snake does in order to get over this metaphorical wall, but this puts us in a TERRIBLE position against Sheik; due to our average air acceleration (it's proportionally terrible compared to the fastest air speed in the game =\), Sheik can use her ground speed to cover almost every option we have upon landing. We still are not officially back to the stage, where positioning is reset and everything is honky-dory, and continuing to guess right in situations where Sheik has the upper hand gives me a migraine.

Edit:

I was looking at some yoshi videos and i was just wondering if you guys knew why yoshi players dont hit people after they are put into a egg and instead just wait for them to come out before hitting them - i know yoshi doesnt give as much damage if he hits them while theyre in it but most times people missed the moves they did when the other person came out of the egg so why not just hit them while theyre in it or is there another reason =/

I am one of the primary advocates for this strategy. Let's try and translate this into a fighting game:

Imagine that Egg Lay is one of your several moves that knocks down the opponent. Then, imagine that the opponent breaking out of the egg is where they stand back up. We call this their wake-up animation. During the wake-up animation, the opponent's objective is to get back up in a way that they either reset positioning put themselves in a position that is more favorable to them.

Now that is pictured in your mind, let's look at what options the opponent has while inside the egg:

Most people that don't know the Yoshi MU at all believe that the best thing to do is to mash out of the egg as fast as possible. While this can be effective at times, it is overall one of the worst options in terms of dealing with it (provided that you're not falling to your death). When people release from the egg lay, they are given some invincibility frames so that they are not locked in an infinite of some sort. So, when people mash out of the egg, they commonly end up mashing out some option that puts them in an unfavorable position, i.e. throwing out an aerial, UpB, or airdodging. Using these options on top of their invincibility frames ends up leaving their ending lag frames vulnerable to get ***** by our choice of option, that being another egglay, an aerial, or a well-positioned egg toss that allows us to combo into another move.

Now, in my area, most people love to just sit in the egg and wait until I try an option that leaves me in a vulnerable position, so that they can punish me using the invincibility frames. This is generally the time to actually hit them while they are in the egg, so that you can at least rack up some damage.

Now, I have been working on something that may actually be possible against most of the cast in this "waiting" situation:

Crouching in the situation while the opponent is on the ground in the egg puts us in a position where most opponents are COMPLETELY unable to throw out a move to hit us in the pop-out animation, but we are actually able to STILL follow them up with something else. AFAIK, the characters that are able to still hit us so far are Falco, Sheik, and Metaknight (all with dair ;__.

I probably have more to say about egg lay, but that's all for now, smokey. Btw, I have a smokey the bear shirt. <3

 

[smokey da bear]

I am one of the primary advocates for this strategy. Let's try and translate this into a fighting game:

Imagine that Egg Lay is one of your several moves that knocks down the opponent. Then, imagine that the opponent breaking out of the egg is where they stand back up. We call this their wake-up animation. During the wake-up animation, the opponent's objective is to get back up in a way that they either reset positioning put themselves in a position that is more favorable to them.

Now that is pictured in your mind, let's look at what options the opponent has while inside the egg:

Most people that don't know the Yoshi MU at all believe that the best thing to do is to mash out of the egg as fast as possible. While this can be effective at times, it is overall one of the worst options in terms of dealing with it (provided that you're not falling to your death). When people release from the egg lay, they are given some invincibility frames so that they are not locked in an infinite of some sort. So, when people mash out of the egg, they commonly end up mashing out some option that puts them in an unfavorable position, i.e. throwing out an aerial, UpB, or airdodging. Using these options on top of their invincibility frames ends up leaving their ending lag frames vulnerable to get ***** by our choice of option, that being another egglay, an aerial, or a well-positioned egg toss that allows us to combo into another move.

Now, in my area, most people love to just sit in the egg and wait until I try an option that leaves me in a vulnerable position, so that they can punish me using the invincibility frames. This is generally the time to actually hit them while they are in the egg, so that you can at least rack up some damage.

Now, I have been working on something that may actually be possible against most of the cast in this "waiting" situation:

Crouching in the situation while the opponent is on the ground in the egg puts us in a position where most opponents are COMPLETELY unable to throw out a move to hit us in the pop-out animation, but we are actually able to STILL follow them up with something else. AFAIK, the characters that are able to still hit us so far are Falco, Sheik, and Metaknight (all with dair ;__.

I probably have more to say about egg lay, but that's all for now, smokey. Btw, I have a smokey the bear shirt. <3

WOW THANKS A LOT AIRBORNE this has been really helpful but why not just time and space a dair so they cant avoid it after they leave the egg or will that not work

 

[Poltergust]

Airborne, I probably get f-tilted twice at most before I react to it and DJ (and possibly n-air) out of it. You're allowing yourself to take too much damage if you get f-tilted three times and then get hit by a follow-up.

I seriously can't see how else Sheik is supposed to attack you if you air-dodge past her other than her b-air. Recovering high is not much of a problem either because Yoshi can always reverse his momentum or delay/haste his landing. The only times I've been gimped by Sheik was due to me being careless.

But whatever, this point is meaningless anyways. I've already conceded to a slight disadvantage against Sheik, albeit for a significantly different reason.

 

[Airborne]

Airborne, I probably get f-tilted twice at most before I react to it and DJ (and possibly n-air) out of it. You're allowing yourself to take too much damage if you get f-tilted three times and then get hit by a follow-up.

I seriously can't see how else Sheik is supposed to attack you if you air-dodge past her other than her b-air. Recovering high is not much of a problem either because Yoshi can always reverse his momentum or delay/haste his landing. The only times I've been gimped by Sheik was due to me being careless.

But whatever, this point is meaningless anyways. I've already conceded to a slight disadvantage against Sheik, albeit for a significantly different reason.

They. Aren't. Doing. It. Right. You. Aren't. Getting. The. Point.

Stop down talking on people that play MU's like it's their ****ing religion.

 

[Poltergust]

The thing is, I second Shelda so I have enough knowledge of both characters in order to come up with an accurate depiction of the match-up. You shouldn't doubt me, either.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Okay so, last week there was a smashfest and a $1 tourney, didn't count but not sure who I lost too in losers but I remember getting reverse 3 stocked by a Falco.
(Off my saddle I don't quite remember everything correctly)

Battlefield, 180+% 3rd stock me, Falco 50+% last stock, He takes my 1st stock off. I'm okay with this, I start camping a bit but he does the same and PS's almost everything I throw at him CG's and D-air Spikes, somehow lost jump when I didn't use it so 2nd stock gone around 90%
3rd Stock the camping game both of us over 130% he wins.
If you want the rest he goes Wolf halberd I win, and he wins 3rd game with MK.
Now for the (Must be cause of the bad weather) 13 player tourney yesterday.

Play same guy from last week and get owned getting only 1 stock off each set.
While I get owned with Falcos now, I can pretty much do well against Snakes and meta knights when I use to have a problem with them.

I guess I can say it's an improvement, but aside from that this reverse 3 stock got me a bit salty at the fact I had no idea what to do since my memory span can only remember basic stuff like Chaingrabs.
SO even though i've been saying this for months now I literally might get this notebook out i've been holding and probably start writing the MU for every character. Basically write down what we should do against them, what to be careful of how to play and what stages to ban against them.

Also been thinking of making a (v4?) MU Chart, atleast have Polt or someone who's willing to help make the thread and a couple of us get some old quotes from our MU thread and re-discuss everyone. Just to spark a bit of life in the Yoshi boards and MAYBE have better Ratios rather then (No offense) Gashi's random percentages or our old MU chart with like.. 65:35 Samus stuff like that.

 

[Airborne]

The thing is, I second Shelda so I have enough knowledge of both characters in order to come up with an accurate depiction of the match-up. You shouldn't doubt me, either.

How can you Double Jump out after 2 ftilts with 1st frame Heavy Armor when Marth can't jump out of 3 ftilts with 1st frame Invincibility? They both behave the same when in the ftilt, so the only explanation is that the sheiks you are playing against are messing up, or are ftilting you under 30%. The ftilt lock is difficult to perform perfectly, as you need to practice as much, if not more, as/than DR.

Also, getting swatted out of our air dodge would be the Sheik waiting for our vulnerability frames to run out. It's hard to figure out which she would be going for on most occasions, due to the fact that the combination of her vertical air acceleration and her ground speed allows her to simply pop up from any spot on the stage and knock us back into an unfavorable position.

Well, whatever, I'm obviously not smart/good enough to be in the BBR, so I'm therefore speaking nonsense.

 

[Yikarur]

Well, whatever, I'm obviously not smart/good enough to be in the BBR, so I'm therefore speaking nonsense.

I hope for you that this is perfect sarcasm.

 

[Kewkky]

Have any Yoshis ever heard of Kirby ducking under Yoshi's grabs? Some Kirby mainers claimed to me they do it on a regular basis (as in ALL the time, and the Kirby community isn't really known for being trolls or liars), but I couldn't duck under anything except the dash grab when i tried it myself. Anyone ever fought a Kirby that ducked under your grabs?

Also... Sheik's ftilt lock is so easy, no joke. Just let buffering do everything for you.

 

[Yikarur]

well crouching under dash grab is known but I don't think that works for other grabs.