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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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Banjodorf

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You do realize that sort of logic doesn't work, right? If there were proof that the second part of the leak was fake, we wouldn't be discussing it. But at the same time, just because it can't be disproven doesn't automatically make it true.
I'd accept this logic for this situation if and only if people didn't act like a 6th Gen rep was the most obvious and most-requested thing in the world. It wasn't even highly speculated around here, because we tended to view it as "too late". But holy ****, circles upon circles upon god. damn. circles.

As long as everyone here will own up to it if they see Chorus Men, I'll stop pestering people for being too narrow-minded about the whole situation. I'll do the same if I don't see them.

Does the likely scenario that all this information was gained+passed on when these characters were in the planning stages, and they hadn't worked out a specific Gen 6 rep yet mean nothing? It sure ought to.
 

False Sense

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I'd accept this logic for this situation if and only if people didn't act like a 6th Gen rep was the most obvious and most-requested thing in the world. It wasn't even highly speculated around here, because we tended to view it as "too late". But holy ****, circles upon circles upon god. damn. circles.

As long as everyone here will own up to it if they see Chorus Men, I'll stop pestering people for being too narrow-minded about the whole situation. I'll do the same if I don't see them.

Does the likely scenario that all this information was gained+passed on when these characters were in the planning stages, and they hadn't worked out a specific Gen 6 rep yet mean nothing? It sure ought to.
I think it's worth mentioning that the leak only stated a "Pokemon from X and Y" would be appearing, but not necessarily a 6th gen Pokemon. It's logical to think that he was referring to a 6th gen Pokemon, but the statement is broad enough to include any Pokemon from that game; if Mewtwo had been revealed, for example, I think many people would assume that he was the "Pokemon from X and Y" that the leak referred to. As such, I find it hard to think that the "Pokemon from X and Y" part of the leak is solid proof of the leak's legitimacy.
 

ChunkyBeef

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Well, if we're going to count the 'Pokemon from X and Y' part as a legitimate part of the leak, then someone has to meet us halfway and admit that it only provides the leak 0.014286% legitimacy.

'cause that's about how much legitimacy you get for vague guesses that turn out to be 'right' out of 70 possible answers, so hey, why not? This way, we get some legitimacy for the leak and we get some representation for those of us who think it's too vague to be considered legitimate. Everyone wins!
 
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TeenGirlSquad

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'cause that's about how much legitimacy you get for vague guesses that turn out to be 'right' out of 70 possible answers, so hey, why not? This way, we get some legitimacy for the leak and we get some representation for those of us who think it's too vague to be considered legitimate. Everyone wins!
So what Gen VI Pokemon was at all likely besides Greninja?

If Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, or any of those other Pokemon which had far more support than Greninja, had been revealed, people would be calling the leak bogus. But the fact is, a Gen VI Pokemon was revealed when it was considered likely that we wouldn't get one.
 

True Blue Warrior

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I think people should focus more on the Chorus Men because I feel they are the key to solidly proving this leak once and for all without any ambiguity or debate.
 
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Banjodorf

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Are we really going to nitpick that it "could've been any Pokemon in X&Y, not specificially a new one?" Come on now. I understand that some people really don't like the leak (probably because it's missing a character they support. It's not like I'm completely happy with it, either.) but that's just a little bit too much.

If we're going that route, then two Pokemon from X&Y were confirmed. Charizard and Greninja. Besides, I get the feeling Sakurai considers Mewtwo a veteran, so why would it be "a newcomer from X&Y"? It was clearly a list of newcomers.

Yes, yes.. "But you can't prove he does!" etc. etc.
 
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ZanZero

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I'd accept this logic for this situation if and only if people didn't act like a 6th Gen rep was the most obvious and most-requested thing in the world. It wasn't even highly speculated around here, because we tended to view it as "too late". But holy ****, circles upon circles upon god. damn. circles.

As long as everyone here will own up to it if they see Chorus Men, I'll stop pestering people for being too narrow-minded about the whole situation. I'll do the same if I don't see them.

Does the likely scenario that all this information was gained+passed on when these characters were in the planning stages, and they hadn't worked out a specific Gen 6 rep yet mean nothing? It sure ought to.
I'm pretty sure it's an unwritten rule that if the Chorus Men are confirmed this whole leak is real, simple as that.
This also counts if Marshall is revealed, or really anything to do with Rhythm Heaven.

On the topic of Greninja, I don't think anyone specifically guessed him, but I did see a lot of people who made the same guess of "Pokemon from X and Y".
A lot of them thinking Hawlucha for some f**king reason...
The logic behind a gen 6 rep was that we got a pokemon from the newest gen in Brawl.
And while this current gen was released after we started getting character reveals, Greninja was already set to be Ash's companion in the show, and he immediately gained a huge following in the pokemon community following the release of the games.
I didn't see his inclusion coming, not in the slightest.
But it made a ton of sense when he was finally revealed.
 

Banjodorf

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Wii Fit Trainer made sense once it was revealed. I know it's not the same thing, but still.
 

ChunkyBeef

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So what Gen VI Pokemon was at all likely besides Greninja?

If Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, or any of those other Pokemon which had far more support than Greninja, had been revealed, people would be calling the leak bogus. But the fact is, a Gen VI Pokemon was revealed when it was considered likely that we wouldn't get one.
If you'd have told someone post-Melee that one day we'd have a playable Ivysaur and Squirtle, you'd have been laughed off the internet. Then someone would've come back to you after Pokemon Trainer's reveal and asked what you knew, and if you'd said more it would've become a huge leak on Smash Boards people were hanging on every word of for your one obscure pick.

Simply put, it's tough to figure out what Sakurai's thinking involved Pokemon. There's all the insinuation in the world that Gamefreak tells Sakurai what he can and can't use as far as Pokemon goes, but Sakurai's got the final say. Still, if you're going to guess 'Pokemon from X and Y' and be vague about it, it's only fair that you get some legitimacy, right?

Just that .01% legitimacy is kinda crappy, so I guess it's unsatisfactory, eh?

Even if we assume the picks were from the most popular Pokemon in Japan, the odds are still pretty damn low.
 

redroses

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So what Gen VI Pokemon was at all likely besides Greninja?

If Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, or any of those other Pokemon which had far more support than Greninja, had been revealed, people would be calling the leak bogus. But the fact is, a Gen VI Pokemon was revealed when it was considered likely that we wouldn't get one.
I personally was expecting a gen 6 pokemon to appear, it just seemed very likely that pokemon x and y would get a rep. Especially seeing that gen 6 will still be relevant for a while, with a third version still coming. I thought a new pokemon trainer, with the new starters had a chance, as well as the final stages of one of the starters to be playable, Greninja, Delphox or Chesnaught. Secretly I was even expecting Sylveon, just because it introduced the new fairy type and eevees are always very popular.
 

False Sense

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Are we really going to nitpick that it "could've been any Pokemon in X&Y, not specificially a new one?" Come on now. I understand that some people really don't like the leak (probably because it's missing a character they support. It's not like I'm completely happy with it, either.) but that's just a little bit too much.

If we're going that route, then two Pokemon from X&Y were confirmed. Charizard and Greninja. Besides, I get the feeling Sakurai considers Mewtwo a veteran, so why would it be "a newcomer from X&Y"? It was clearly a list of newcomers.

Yes, yes.. "But you can't prove he does!" etc. etc.
Yes, you could say that two Pokemon from X and Y were confirmed. For all we know, the leak was referring to Charizard. Yes, I realize that is stretching it, but the statement about a Pokemon from X and Y is so vague that it could apply to even Charizard. I'm not saying that it is, but it could.

Though really, that whole Pokemon from X and Y thing is just so incredibly vague that I don't think the reveal of Greninja gives the second part of the leak that much credibility. The second part is really relying on the Chorus Men to prove its legitimacy; everything else on there is simply a very likely inclusion regardless (we even rated those characters as such the day before the leak came out).
 

Banjodorf

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As long as we're in agreement that Chorus Men will give the leak it's legitimacy, I'm done here. Just getting a bit sick of people who "don't believe in leaks" when they happen and will continue to happen. And dancing around things like "A Pokemon from X&Y" is just another way to ignore reality for some. Ugh.
 

ChunkyBeef

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As long as we're in agreement that Chorus Men will give the leak it's legitimacy, I'm done here. Just getting a bit sick of people who "don't believe in leaks" when they happen and will continue to happen. And dancing around things like "A Pokemon from X&Y" is just another way to ignore reality for some. Ugh.
Well, to be fair to both sides, most of the leaks we've gotten from outside sources were days and weeks before the game's respective launches, and people denied those vehemently, too, even though they were proven right days later. All of the rest of the leaks were just minor blunders from Sakurai and Nintendo. I'm rooting for both sides, though I'll admit that I'd prefer it to be wrong. There's clearly some legitimacy here with Wii Fit Trainer and the first leak, but the second leak doesn't really have much going for it at the moment.

And as we've argued before, Shulk, Chorus Man and Pac-Man are the linchpins that decide if the leak stays together or falls apart, and some linchpins are more vital than others.
 
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EmbersToAshes

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I don't like the hindsight "argument" because it's ignorant, simple as that.
Just because YOU didn't have the foresight to guess it doesn't mean someone else didn't.
I personally believe the first leak, yknow the one with Wii Fit Trainer?
But I do think Sal's second leak is a bunch of bulls**t.
What's ignorant is your assumption that the application of perceived logic to these characters based on hindsight provides you with the knowledge of how characters are selected. Which it doesn't. Because you're not on the development team, who have consistently included characters NOBODY HAS GUESSED. and that's why hindsight doesn't work. Because considering how you've used it to justify her inclusion, the lack of leaks prior to her announcement pretty much makes your argument invalid. Were she, and Villager, so obvious, they'd've been in a ton of fake leaks. They weren't, end of.
 
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ZanZero

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What's ignorant is your assumption that the application of perceived logic to these characters based on hindsight provides you with the knowledge of how characters are selected. Which it doesn't. Because you're not on the development team, who have consistently included characters NOBODY HAS GUESSED. and that's why hindsight doesn't work. Because considering how you've used it to justify her inclusion, the lack of leaks prior to her announcement pretty much makes your argument invalid. Were she, and Villager, so obvious, they'd've been in a ton of fake leaks. They weren't, end of.
I'm done with this arguement, you don't stop and listen.
I NEVER SAID I GUESSED THESE ****ING CHARACTERS.
I said it was POSSIBLE that someone else has.
I never said that Wii Fit or Villager or Chorus Men are easy guesses, either.
The other character's sprinkled throughout this leak, a.k.a. the majority of them, are.
So stop aiming your bull**** at me.
You daft ************.
 
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Bauske

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You do realize that sort of logic doesn't work, right? If there were proof that the second part of the leak was fake, we wouldn't be discussing it. But at the same time, just because it can't be disproven doesn't automatically make it true.
It does work that way. So far, at least in my view, this leak has nothing against it except people thinking Sal is lying. I don't see any reason why he would lie about this stuff, but then again I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt as truthworthy, especially when they run a gaming news web site.

Break it down simply, and you'll see how my mind sees it: The leak hasn't been wrong yet. Yes, it may have been vague with Pokemon from X and Y, but it's still technically correct. Greninja is a Pokemon from X and Y. Mii, Pac-Man, Chorus Men, Chrom, Palutena, and Shulk have not been disconfirmed in any way, so the leak is still accurate.

I love arguing semantics, but when you break it down to straight up facts, the leak has not been wrong. That's all it boils down to. Everything else is moot. We can argue all day long about how the leaker should have done this or should have done that, or how they might have done this or might have done that, but none of it matters because we'll more than likely never know the leaker or get to ask them about why they said what they said. The only thing we can do is wait until the game gets released and see then.

And when it does come out, and if the leak is right, $10 bets you there are people who will still say it's a lucky guess and that Rhythm Heaven deserved a rep and everything else was easily calculated. Because some people don't like admitting they're wrong.

If the leak is wrong, it's wrong. I'm not acting like it's the be-all, end-all leak. But it's the only one so far that hasn't been disproven, and after everything that's happened with this development cycle and surprise characters, that's saying something.
 
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Noiblade

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On the topic of Greninja, I don't think anyone specifically guessed him, but I did see a lot of people who made the same guess of "Pokemon from X and Y".
A couple of hours before the Direct some guy on reddit "guessed" that they would show off Greninja, Charizard, and Mewtwo, and Final Destination for most stages.

But I guess since Mewtwo wasn't shown it was wrong.:troll:
 

EmbersToAshes

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I'm done with this arguement, you don't stop and listen.
I NEVER SAID I GUESSED THESE F**KING CHARACTERS.
I said it was POSSIBLE that someone else has.
I never said that Wii Fit or Villager or Chorus Men are easy guesses, either.
The other character's sprinkled throughout this leak, a.k.a. the majority of them, are.
So stop aiming your bulls**t at me.
You daft motherf**ker.
Then find me these people. I challenged someone else to do much the same. Find me a leak with those guys in. If not, settle down and argue your point like a civilized human being. Obscenities only weaken your point further.
 

Dairz

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So what Gen VI Pokemon was at all likely besides Greninja?

If Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, or any of those other Pokemon which had far more support than Greninja, had been revealed, people would be calling the leak bogus. But the fact is, a Gen VI Pokemon was revealed when it was considered likely that we wouldn't get one.
"Gen VI Pokemon wasn't likely"? Thats BS. Every single Smash game has had at least one rep from the newest Pokemon gen in it. 64 got Pikachu and Jiggs (Gen 1), Melee had Pichu (Gen 2), and Brawl got Lucario (Gen 4). Smash 5 will probably have a rep from whatever gen Pokemons on in 6 years or so, too.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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"Gen VI Pokemon wasn't likely"? Thats BS. Every single Smash game has had at least one rep from the newest Pokemon gen in it. 64 got Pikachu and Jiggs (Gen 1), Melee had Pichu (Gen 2), and Brawl got Lucario (Gen 4). Smash 5 will probably have a rep from whatever gen Pokemons on in 6 years or so, too.
I'm not saying it wasn't likely, I'm saying it wasn't considered likely.
 
D

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A new Pokemon from Generation VI?
A new one from Pokemon X & Y.

I know I sure as heck was expecting it.

I think the leak is still valid but individually, consistency aside, it was not an obscure though to assume we were going to get a current gen Poke in the line-up given every past iteration of Smash created the precedent for it.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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What I find strange is the fact we had those characters so soon, last year. I mean, we didn't have such leak for brawl a year prior to its release, did we ? The fact we had the leak so soon surprises me...
 

Pega-pony Princess

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Although I support this leak, I'd be okay with it not being real as long as Shulk is playable.
 

Pieman0920

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In regards to the Gen 6 Pokemon, no single regular Pokemon was ever a popular choice from that generation. A lot of people believed that Gen 6 would be represented just by the inclusion of a Mega Pokemon. Namely Mewtwo. Outside of Mega Pokemon, or Pokemon associated with Mega Evolution, the next most common suggestion was a Pokemon trainer with the Gen 6 starters. The Gen 6 starters are actually fairly well linked together, since they were designed off the RPG classes for a Warrior (Chesnaught) Mage (Delphox) and Thief/Rogue/Ninja (Greninja) though most people assumed we would have the same set up as we did with the PT in Brawl with one base, middle, and final form starter. (Since I subscribed to this idea, I'll say my preferred configuration of that would have been Chespin, Braixen, Greninja). Lastly, there were those who suggest Sylveon, though there weren't that many of those...probably more than people who suggested Greninja and nothing else though, since most people though there had to be representation of all the starter choices.
 

ChunkyBeef

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In regards to the Gen 6 Pokemon, no single regular Pokemon was ever a popular choice from that generation.
Not to mention, a lot of Greninja's popularity came from its ease of use in a competitive setting. Protean Greninja is something all teams have to prepare for.

And most of Japan started with Froakie, so most of them wound up with Greninja. I'd imagine the numbers are fairly similar over here.
 
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Well there's no denying Greninja was the most popular of the starters, but I'm just saying that no single regular Gen 6 Pokemon was a popular choice for a Smash 4 character.
How exactly are intending to prove and validate this statement in any other way than just by simply saying so? You positively have no means of legitimizing your assertion that no gen 6 Pokemon was a "popular" pick.
 

Pieman0920

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Well I'm in a forum, so I'll admit its more observation than hard fact. And while you probably could sift through things and get hard facts, I'm not the one who's going to do that. Its just that I've been on a lot of threads in a lot of forums that have been about Smash speculation and that's just my observations.

But I'll ask you this in regards to the Gen 6 Pokemon, do you ever see anyone lament that Greninja was picked and not another Gen 6 Pokemon? Did you see many people asking for him prior to his inclusion? It may not be fair, but since so many other Pokemon came first, and so many people have nostalgia for earlier generations, you'll see more people want those older Pokemon.
 
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Well I'm in a forum, so I'll admit its more observation than hard fact. And while you probably could sift through things and get hard facts, I'm not the one who's going to do that. Its just that I've been on a lot of threads in a lot of forums that have been about Smash speculation and that's just my observations.

But I'll ask you this in regards to the Gen 6 Pokemon, do you ever see anyone lament that Greninja was picked and not another Gen 6 Pokemon? Did you see many people asking for him prior to his inclusion? It may not be fair, but since so many other Pokemon came first, and so many people have nostalgia for earlier generations, you'll see more people want those older Pokemon.
I can attest in the same non-encompassing way as you, that due to observation I've seen many submit to the idea that a new Pokemon on the roster is likely from the new gen.

They don't have to be *popular* to be likely.
 

Hippopotasauce

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I think people should focus more on the Chorus Men because I feel they are the key to solidly proving this leak once and for all without any ambiguity or debate.
If ever a Rhythm Heaven stage is revealed without a character, I think we can count the Gematsu leak out. No way he'd show a new series's stage before its character.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Punch Out.
Nope.

That was not a Punch-Out Stage when revealed. It was just a boxing ring at the time with an SSB symbol and even saying Super Smash Bros. itself among the various parts of the stage. It was presented clearly as a SSB Universe stage first. It was way later revealed to be from PO, when we learned that was the default skin for it(at least considering the main symbol is the PO one).

It's a bad example entirely.
 

Bravetriforcer

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Nope.

That was not a Punch-Out Stage when revealed. It was just a boxing ring at the time with an SSB symbol and even saying Super Smash Bros. itself among the various parts of the stage. It was presented clearly as a SSB Universe stage first. It was way later revealed to be from PO, when we learned that was the default skin for it(at least considering the main symbol is the PO one).

It's a bad example entirely.
Were you seriously a person who wasn't thinking Little Mac and Punch Out the moment you saw a boxing ring in Smash Bros?
 

KingLucasx

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If ever a Rhythm Heaven stage is revealed without a character, I think we can count the Gematsu leak out. No way he'd show a new series's stage before its character.
Palutena temple representing Palutena and Arena Ferox representing Chrom since they are 99% sure to be in this game. In my opinion which will become a fact.
 
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