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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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4cast

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This depends on What Foxes Custom Moves....
Oh yeah and this seems bad for Falco Fans but... Foxes Side B now has a meteor Smash effect like Falco's...
EDIT : Question since we have 3 3rd parties what will SSB5 Have? who? I want Shantae mainly but that's just wishful thinking
 
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ElectricCitrus

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@ Oracle_Summon Oracle_Summon another problem Snake faces in addition to games and 3rd party reping is what I've been saying all thread, yet no one seems to be paying attention to, and that is that Snake was only added in the first place because Kojima approached Sakurai towards the end of Melee's development and asked if he could add him in. Sakurai said it was too late for melee, but ended up adding him early in brawl as a favor to Kojima.

So unless Kojima has come up to Sakurai again Snake is likely getting cut, because I doubt Sakurai cares enough to approach Kojima.
 

Oracle_Summon

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@ Oracle_Summon Oracle_Summon another problem Snake faces in addition to games and 3rd party reping is what I've been saying all thread, yet no one seems to be paying attention to, and that is that Snake was only added in the first place because Kojima approached Sakurai towards the end of Melee's development and asked if he could add him in. Sakurai said it was too late for melee, but ended up adding him early in brawl as a favor to Kojima.

So unless Kojima has come up to Sakurai again Snake is likely getting cut, because I doubt Sakurai cares enough to approach Kojima.
Yep, that is true; however, Snake's 3DS game does help him, but by how much is another story.
 
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ScottyWK

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Not necessarily. Mewtwo was only cut because of lack of time for the game.

If Uniqueness of moveset is not a bullet-proof reason for characters to stay, then Falco is deader than Disco.
I'm saying that using "unique moveset" as a reason for thinking a character won't be cut is dangerous because Mewtwo HAD a unique moveset and was cut. Time constraint or not, he had a unique moveset, and he was cut. So uniqueness doesn't necessarily protect everyone. Who knows if he runs into another time constraint.

Your second statement doesn't work. Falco was in Brawl, and Mewtwo wasn't, so that's proof that moveset uniqueness doesn't trump whatever other reasons Sakurai has for keeping characters. All I'm saying is, be careful using that as one's main reasoning for defending a character's inclusion.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I'm saying that using "unique moveset" as a reason for thinking a character won't be cut is dangerous because Mewtwo HAD a unique moveset and was cut. Time constraint or not, he had a unique moveset, and he was cut. So uniqueness doesn't necessarily protect everyone. Who knows if he runs into another time constraint.

Your second statement doesn't work. Falco was in Brawl, and Mewtwo wasn't, so that's proof that moveset uniqueness doesn't trump whatever other reasons Sakurai has for keeping characters. All I'm saying is, be careful using that as one's main reasoning for defending a character's inclusion.
Falco was only added in Brawl because of his popularity with Smash Fans and Tourney Players. Not to add that Time Constraint can kill characters; however, the sensible thing to do would be to cut clone characters before those with original movesets.

Sakurai was not contacted ahead of time to work on Brawl, it caught him by surprise that Nintendo put him on the spot to work on it. Now that Sakurai was able to work the blue prints characters with unique movesets will not be cut.

And don't forget that Sakurai said that he wants as much diversity in each character as possible, meaning movesets. The more diverse a moveset is, the more that character brings to Smash.

Edit: Mewtwo was only cut because they did not have enough time to work on him. Lucario was worked on first since he was raising in popularity significantly. Mewtwo was not cut because of his original moveset or the fact that original movesets don't save a character, but that time constraints can kill anybody.
 
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4cast

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Villager And Rosaluma Both show this Diversity Greatly!
EDIT : I still think ROB will be cut :p
 
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Oracle_Summon

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I never said he was cut, if you look at the list it says a 3rd starfox rep, it could be wolf or slippy or peppy or krystal.
You said who was getting in and you did not mention Wolf, that is where I drew my conclusion. Though, if anybody is leaving it is Falco, but only if Krystal gets in.
 

ScottyWK

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Falco was only added in Brawl because of his popularity with Smash Fans and Tourney Players. Not to add that Time Constraint can kill characters; however, the sensible thing to do would be to cut clone characters before those with original movesets.

Sakurai was not contacted ahead of time to work on Brawl, it caught him by surprise that Nintendo put him on the spot to work on it. Now that Sakurai was able to work the blue prints characters with unique movesets will not be cut.

And don't forget that Sakurai said that he wants as much diversity in each character as possible, meaning movesets. The more diverse a moveset is, the more that character brings to Smash.

Edit: Mewtwo was only cut because they did not have enough time to work on him. Lucario was worked on first since he was raising in popularity significantly. Mewtwo was not cut because of his original moveset or the fact that original movesets don't save a character, but that time constraints can kill anybody.
You still aren't understanding. I never said Mewtwo was cut BECAUSE of his original moveset - that is totally asinine. I'm saying that regardless of having an original moveset, he was still cut.

Also, you are spewing out information like it is fact, but you can't prove it at all. "Falco was only added in Brawl because of his popularity with Smash Fans and Tourney Players." Are you saying that you know for a fact (IE: Have a source that states it) that Falco holds no other merit to Sakurai? Like, literally 0 merit?

The funny thing is, I agree with you that IF either of them is cut, it's Falco. But I doubt either one will be. But you can't just go around proclaiming things as fact that are merely speculation.

Oracle You know those Little Banners below your Post? the character ones how do you do that? sorry if its a stupid question I'm just curious
Can you just PM him and ask him? Spamming up the thread
 
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4cast

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Oracle You know those Little Banners below your Post? the character ones how do you do that? sorry if its a stupid question I'm just curious
Edit: Coming from the Guy who Is not even On topic in the First place:smash:
 
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Morbi

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You still aren't understanding. I never said Mewtwo was cut BECAUSE of his original moveset - that is totally asinine. I'm saying that regardless of having an original moveset, he was still cut.

Also, you are spewing out information like it is fact, but you can't prove it at all. "Falco was only added in Brawl because of his popularity with Smash Fans and Tourney Players." Are you saying that you know for a fact (IE: Have a source that states it) that Falco holds no other merit to Sakurai? Like, literally 0 merit?

The funny thing is, I agree with you that IF either of them is cut, it's Falco. But I doubt either one will be. But you can't just go around proclaiming things as fact that are merely speculation.


Can you just PM him and ask him? Spamming up the thread
I apologize; I have not kept up with the Gematsu leak, did he leak something pertaining to whether or not Falco or Wolf would be cut?
 

ScottyWK

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I apologize; I have not kept up with the Gematsu leak, did he leak something pertaining to whether or not Falco or Wolf would be cut?
No, it's all incredibly off-topic. I honestly think most of it is still people trying to combine the "Falco this week!" leak with Sal's.

I just can't help pointing out blatant flaws in logic/reasoning.
 

ElectricCitrus

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It started because I pointed out my peace with this roster, then we talked about Lucas getting cut, then it spiraled into mother being a niche series compared to star fox and f-zero and finally the Falco/Wolf debate. It's been an interesting Sunday.

Edit: For full context I implore everyone to read through the last five pages or so.

Edit 2: I think it's relevant to the topic anyways because a element of this leak is roster cuts, as shown by Lucas being name dropped.
 
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FlappyFalco

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Where do you get the whole "any character could get cut" notion? There's only a few characters who've been in more than one game that have even a remote shot at getting cut anyway.
What I'm saying is, if they cut Falco or Jigglypuff, then that would "open the floodgates" and pretty much any character is in danger of getting cut. In ten years time if Ness or Captain Falcon still haven't had a new game, well, *snip*.
 

Stalkos

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I believe whatever the leak said, :lucas: is safe because of his gameplay. He only shares his B moves with :ness2:, so saying that Ness having B custom moves would supply for Lucas is absurd. A lot of 'clones' survived the game just by having diferent weight, A moves and different effects on their moves. Also, the leak never said that Lucas would SURELY be cut. That data seems outdated because that would have been decided way before, and as far as I heard, sakurai is looking for different ways of gameplay. Why throw away a character that is basically finished?

The same can be apllied to :falco:. He is comparable to Lucas (same B moves with different effectcs, and different A moves).
:wolf: is a different character. If you would look to him, is the same comparation of :ike: to :marth:.

Having this in mind we can safely assume that vets and unique characters from brawl could return. (:jigglypuff::falcon::ganondorf::falco::popo::metaknight::gw::rob::wario::wolf::lucas::ness2:).

:mewtwomelee:is the only exepction to my logic, because he had a unique moveset, and was removed. But he WAS planned to join the brawl cast. (What elements were taking in consideration to have him removed though, we will never know).

The :ivysaur::squirtle: are basically imposible to predict because we don't know if they are strong enough to keep themselves alone without pokemon trainer (and the risk of being a lot of pokemon reps).

And call me a fool, but I still have faith in :snake:. Basically because they must have done some kind of contract for image use when he joined Brawl, and that contract must cover more than 1 game (but is much more because I really wanna see him coming back).
 

Second Power

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What I'm saying is, if they cut Falco or Jigglypuff, then that would "open the floodgates" and pretty much any character is in danger of getting cut. In ten years time if Ness or Captain Falcon still haven't had a new game, well, *snip*.
Disagree entirely. They've never cut a series' sole representative, and I can't see them doing so. Jigglypuff and Falco are both supporting characters in their series, so the situation is hardly the same.
 

GrapeEscape

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Disagree entirely. They've never cut a series' sole representative, and I can't see them doing so. Jigglypuff and Falco are both supporting characters in their series, so the situation is hardly the same.
This. This is exactly why characters like Ness, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. are NEVER getting cut. They're the main representatives of their franchises and most of them don't have anyone that could replace them and represent their series instead (these characters being Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B.)
 

andalsoandy

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I think BluePsychic meant... "Why is Shulk the only first party character behind the third party characters?"

Doesn't seem like there was any new information during the weekend pertaining to the leak. A long shot, but oh well. Still waiting on August.
lol for the longest time I thought Shulk was third party.

I doubt we're getting a 5 row select screen. The demo showed 3 rows, so 4 is probably our number (consistent with the Brawl demo/final look). 4x12, or 4x13 is the most likely outcome (personally I think it'll be the latter for a number of reasons).

Also, your layout is not consistent with the demo build, which is unlikely to change order (for example, Zelda was on the second row, starting it, Star Fox was after Zelda).
Makes sense. I didn't really think about that. I based it off of P:M's CSS.

I didn't intend it to be the final CSS, just the final roster.

EDIT: lol sorry for the three page late reply.
 
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JaidynReiman

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This. This is exactly why characters like Ness, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. are NEVER getting cut. They're the main representatives of their franchises and most of them don't have anyone that could replace them and represent their series instead (these characters being Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B.)
Ness isn't the sole representative, though. Lucas also represents Earthbound, and was planned to be replaced by Lucas in Melee.
 

GrapeEscape

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Ness isn't the sole representative, though. Lucas also represents Earthbound, and was planned to be replaced by Lucas in Melee.
MAIN representative. As in, the one everyone knows and is the protagonist of one of the games in the Earthbound series. Technically Captain Falcon could be replaced in Super Smash Bros. by another F-Zero racer, but would that ever happen? No, and I think I can safely say that's the same case for Ness, especially since he's been in all of the Super Smash Bros. games so far. Though admittedly I do believe that the only reason why Ness was in Brawl was for tradition's sake, but there's no reason for Sakurai to abandon that tradition here. In fact, one of the events in Brawl referred to the original 12 as "perfect attendees". With that kind of track record, there's no way we're going to see any of them get axed.
 

epicgordan

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This. This is exactly why characters like Ness, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. are NEVER getting cut. They're the main representatives of their franchises and most of them don't have anyone that could replace them and represent their series instead (these characters being Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B.)
While a logical argument, not only is Ness not a sole representative (unless you're assuming that Lucas is getting cut), but being third party alone jeopardizes Snake's chances of inclusion.

And let me put this entire debacle to rest right here, right now: Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Snake are all goners. If there is anybody joining these three in the chopping block, it's Lucas. Yes, aesthetically, Lucas has more diversity than Falco. But based on how both characters controlled, Falco's few differences were more than enough to make him top tier while Fox--who he is a semi-clone of--is made to settle for mid-to-high tier, and below even Wolf in the rankings. Lucas's differences, on the other hand, made him much less reliable than Ness competitively. Add to that the fact that, similar to another semi-clone from Melee--Roy--not only is he much worse than his primary counterpart, but never had his game officially localized outside the state. At least with Falco, he was Fox's rival for god tier in Melee, and his superior and high tier in Brawl.

And before anybody brings up the comparison between Dr. Mario and Mario to prove a faulty argument, that there is by definition the exception rather than the rule. Even if Dr. Mario was god tier while Mario was worse than Pichu, there was no chance down under that Mario was going to be cut in favor of Dr. Mario in ANY Smash Bros. games. Funny thing is, Dr. Mario was the most useful of all the cut characters in Melee.

So, to bring this topic back on track and silence the boundless repetition, the day Falco is confirmed cut will be the day I eat all my potty-stained underwear. It's not happening. Period. Get over it, people!

Now, as for the whole, "well, Lucas was planned for Melee, but delays resulted in Ness' return" debacle, that was back when it was widely believed that Lucas was going to be localized worldwide. And had he been in Melee, chances are, that'd mean the end of Mother representation by the time Brawl came around. He was only included to promote Mother 3, which again, never made it outside Japan. And given the fact that the Mother series has ended; we are never getting another game in said series, well, you do the math.

And what does any of this debate have to do with the gematsu leak? Nothing, but I'll connect the dots simplistically; all this is even assuming we're losing another character alongside Snake, Ivysaur and Squirtle. Fact of the matter is, the only way physical evidence in-game is even going to pop up suggesting that point number 3 is wrong is if both Ness and Lucas get cut. And given the return of the Mother symbol on Sakurai's Miiverse page (see items), that's not going to happen. Any reasonable skeptic like myself can tell that the sentencing and the choice of veterans to mention in regards to cuts comes across as exceptionally safe, as it didn't matter if his assumption regarding Lucas is right, or if Ness gets the axe (or as an alternate scenario; they both return), he'd be left off the hook fairly easily.
 

True Blue Warrior

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While a logical argument, not only is Ness not a sole representative (unless you're assuming that Lucas is getting cut), but being third party alone jeopardizes Snake's chances of inclusion.

And let me put this entire debacle to rest right here, right now: Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Snake are all goners. If there is anybody joining these three in the chopping block, it's Lucas. Yes, aesthetically, Lucas has more diversity than Falco. But based on how both characters controlled, Falco's few differences were more than enough to make him top tier while Fox--who he is a semi-clone of--is made to settle for mid-to-high tier, and below even Wolf in the rankings. Lucas's differences, on the other hand, made him much less reliable than Ness competitively. Add to that the fact that, similar to another semi-clone from Melee--Roy--not only is he much worse than his primary counterpart, but never had his game officially localized outside the state. At least with Falco, he was Fox's rival for god tier in Melee, and his superior and high tier in Brawl.
Roy is not a semi-clone, but a full clone.
 

CroonerMike

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So...how about that Sal Romano/Gematsu leak. I think until there is a new leak from his source, this topic should be locked.
 
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JaidynReiman

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So...how about that Sal Romano/Gematsu leak. I think until there is a new leak from his source, this topic should be locked.
There won't be. However, we can watch for the remaining newcomers to further confirm or deny the Gematsu leak, although at this point there's no denying the leak is legit; since it is outdated, though, not all of the remaining newcomers may actually make it in the end.
 

GrapeEscape

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While a logical argument, not only is Ness not a sole representative (unless you're assuming that Lucas is getting cut), but being third party alone jeopardizes Snake's chances of inclusion.

And let me put this entire debacle to rest right here, right now: Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Snake are all goners. If there is anybody joining these three in the chopping block, it's Lucas. Yes, aesthetically, Lucas has more diversity than Falco. But based on how both characters controlled, Falco's few differences were more than enough to make him top tier while Fox--who he is a semi-clone of--is made to settle for mid-to-high tier, and below even Wolf in the rankings. Lucas's differences, on the other hand, made him much less reliable than Ness competitively. Add to that the fact that, similar to another semi-clone from Melee--Roy--not only is he much worse than his primary counterpart, but never had his game officially localized outside the state. At least with Falco, he was Fox's rival for god tier in Melee, and his superior and high tier in Brawl.

And before anybody brings up the comparison between Dr. Mario and Mario to prove a faulty argument, that there is by definition the exception rather than the rule. Even if Dr. Mario was god tier while Mario was worse than Pichu, there was no chance down under that Mario was going to be cut in favor of Dr. Mario in ANY Smash Bros. games. Funny thing is, Dr. Mario was the most useful of all the cut characters in Melee.

So, to bring this topic back on track and silence the boundless repetition, the day Falco is confirmed cut will be the day I eat all my potty-stained underwear. It's not happening. Period. Get over it, people!

Now, as for the whole, "well, Lucas was planned for Melee, but delays resulted in Ness' return" debacle, that was back when it was widely believed that Lucas was going to be localized worldwide. And had he been in Melee, chances are, that'd mean the end of Mother representation by the time Brawl came around. He was only included to promote Mother 3, which again, never made it outside Japan. And given the fact that the Mother series has ended; we are never getting another game in said series, well, you do the math.

And what does any of this debate have to do with the gematsu leak? Nothing, but I'll connect the dots simplistically; all this is even assuming we're losing another character alongside Snake, Ivysaur and Squirtle. Fact of the matter is, the only way physical evidence in-game is even going to pop up suggesting that point number 3 is wrong is if both Ness and Lucas get cut. And given the return of the Mother symbol on Sakurai's Miiverse page (see items), that's not going to happen. Any reasonable skeptic like myself can tell that the sentencing and the choice of veterans to mention in regards to cuts comes across as exceptionally safe, as it didn't matter if his assumption regarding Lucas is right, or if Ness gets the axe (or as an alternate scenario; they both return), he'd be left off the hook fairly easily.
You do know that the Super Smash Bros. Miiverse website is a fan site, right? And I also don't see R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, or Ice Climbers getting a new game in the future. One could argue that they're considered to be retro characters and for that reason they're off the hook, but Earthbound is also a really old series, dating back to the days of the Famicom and NES.
 

epicgordan

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So...how about that Sal Romano/Gematsu leak. I think until there is a new leak from his source, this topic should be locked.
So long as there is still relevance with the leak itself, the topic shouldn't even be unlocked. But if that repetitious crap continues to go off-topic, then it very well could happen.

Wouldn't the best course of action, however, be to simply leave the thread for a time and come back later when it becomes more relevant again?
 

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Alright this thread has reached the final breaking point. The past few pages that have been made today have all been off topic and people have continuously ignored the Staff's warnings in similar vein to the original Rumor/Leak thread. Please refer to the post made yesterday if you wish to carry out discussion where it is more appropriate.

This thread is for solely discussing the potential leak that was made by Sal/Gematsu. If you wish to discuss something different then please go to either Social or Character Discussion threads.

While you may attempt to compare other potential leaks to this one, the discussion must stay relevant to the Sal/Gematsu leak at all times. If you wish to discuss leaks in general, then use either the Social thread or join this Social Group.

If you have further questions please refer to the OP of this thread or ask any of the Staff.
 

NoiseHERO

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This may as well just be turned into a general major leaks/character speculation thread, with it being obvious that the only leak we only really have that's active is Sal's. <_>
 

IsmaR

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I think I speak for all of us when I say thank you @鉄腕アトム (formerly SSBF) in addition to the staff for trying your best to keep this thread afloat for as long as you did.

And we're sorry it had to come to this...again. If this type of discussion continues to derail topics other than the threads @ --- --- linked to, the users responsible (both here in this thread and any future incidents) WILL be reprimanded. Additionally, any future leak thread still has to be OK'd by a staff member before being created. Ignoring this policy will result in a swift lock and warning/infraction.
 
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