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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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SpeedBoost

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Perfect. I now know how he acquired that information. There. Aside from the press site bad password, I can safely say all of his information is outdated/obtained early on in development.

Well duh that was kinda obvious. It does not matter though because Sakurai said he finalized since the beginning of development so either way its credible information.
 

Neo Zero

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Even when his remaining 3 is revealed.

He will still remain someone who made ''educated" guesses.

Because literally everyone and their mother was expecting that Wii Fit Trainer. Also everyone knows Chorus Men is such an obvious shoo in choice for Smash Brothers!
To be fair, the Mom demographic probably would expect WFT in this game lol.
 

staindgrey

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Like Daisy? :rolleyes:
The Rhythm Heaven series has sold more than, say, Fire Emblem. The Chorus Kids would be perfect to represent the series.
I've never once claimed Daisy's more deserving than any other newcomer. I'm aware of my bias. I just like Daisy.

As to your claim of Rhythm Heaven, I find that extremely hard to believe. It's had three total games, only one of which apparently broke 1million sales. Fire Emblem has had over ten games with remakes and spin-offs. Regardless, my personal opinion is not objective fact; I was stating my personal disappointment in that character choice if it were ever to become true because, in my mind, there are plenty of more recognizable, 'deserving' characters from current or unrepresented franchises who aren't three amorphous blobs whose power is singing on key.

I feel I'm allowed to hold that opinion.
 

JaidynReiman

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I've never once claimed Daisy's more deserving than any other newcomer. I'm aware of my bias. I just like Daisy.

As to your claim of Rhythm Heaven, I find that extremely hard to believe. It's had three total games, only one of which apparently broke 1million sales. Fire Emblem has had over ten games with remakes and spin-offs. Regardless, my personal opinion is not objective fact; I was stating my personal disappointment in that character choice if it were ever to become true because, in my mind, there are plenty of more recognizable, 'deserving' characters from current or unrepresented franchises who aren't three amorphous blobs whose power is singing on key.

I feel I'm allowed to hold that opinion.
The second Rhythm Heaven game sold around 3m. Oh, my mistake, that is what you were saying.

Fire Emblem is an extremely long-running and popular Nintendo franchise, Rhythm Heaven has only three games. Granted, the second game sold more than any Fire Emblem game, but that's about it. Fire Emblem sales haven't always been the best, but three games topped 700k and half the games in the series were 500k+, so its still quite good. Not as good as Donkey Kong, but still quite good.
 

farvin111

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there are plenty of more recognizable, 'deserving' characters from current or unrepresented franchises who aren't three amorphous blobs whose power is singing on key.
What remaining franchises do you have in mind? Are they as big as Rhythm Heaven? The only big-name games I can think of that don't have characters are Nintendogs and Brain Age, but of course they don't lend themselves to characters well.
 

SpeedBoost

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Sal has shot himself in the foot on multiple occasions, and missed all of the obvious characters like Rosalina, Charizard, Sheik and Zamus, etc. I also find it hard to believe that someone could not know the names of ANY characters in their 'leak'. I'm dismissing him and always have personally.

He's a chap that made educated guesses, and has started a falsified tidal wave of support because of it. At this point, I don't count any characters in or out. Sakurai has proved that he is capable of making a move-set out of just about anything. It's just a matter of what characters he feels more attached to at this point.
Ok you got this all wrong. Sal not mentioning a character does not hurt the leak nor does it help it. IF and I mean IF he said "Rosalina is not in the game" then it would hurt the leak. And the rest of the characters are not newcomers so lol. And Im sorry like it or not almost EVERYTHING Sal has said is confirmed to be true so far. His entire first leak is correct and only 3 more characters needed to be showed to show you guys shot your self in the foot for not beileving him.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ok you got this all wrong. Sal not mentioning a character does not hurt the leak nor does it help it. IF and I mean IF he said "Rosalina is not in the game" then it would hurt the leak. And the rest of the characters are not newcomers so lol. And Im sorry like it or not almost EVERYTHING Sal has said is confirmed to be true so far. His entire first leak is correct and only 3 more characters needed to be showed to show you guys shot your self in the foot for not beileving him.
We still need to see Character DLC to prove all parts, right. If Ness or Lucas is cut, it helps prove the leak right, but if neither is cut, it doesn't hurt it.

It's still the most believable leak we ever had for 4, though.
 

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What remaining franchises do you have in mind? Are they as big as Rhythm Heaven? The only big-name games I can think of that don't have characters are Nintendogs and Brain Age, but of course they don't lend themselves to characters well.
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Golden+Sun

Even Dark Dawn was only just behind Rhythm Heaven Fever according to these charts... Granted, the second Rhythm heaven still sold more, but all three Golden Sun games did fairly well, and Dark Dawn is the only one not to top a million. Plus the re-releases have been selling fairly well from what I've heard.
 

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What remaining franchises do you have in mind? Are they as big as Rhythm Heaven? The only big-name games I can think of that don't have characters are Nintendogs and Brain Age, but of course they don't lend themselves to characters well.
While some of these may not be available due to copyrights (I have no idea what is and isn't officially owned by Nintendo), I'd recommend Fatal Frame, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Chibi Robo, Sin & Punishment and Xenoblade. Not to say Rhythm Heaven shouldn't be represented at all. Some games, I believe, should only be represented by stages/trophies/collectibles, because they just don't translate well to fighters. I don't think anybody anywhere was clamoring for a Chorus Men character before this "leak" happened.
 

Hinata

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Hey, Sal, ol' buddy! Why not try leakin' Ridley, or K Rool? To hell with the truth, you'll get a lot more people on your side that way.

Heheh. In all honesty, I don't see how some people are saying these are "lucky guesses" or whatever. C'mon, He predicted Villager AND Wii Fit Trainer! I would give him credit for the whole "Mii Fighters" thing, but apparently anyone could've known that before E3.
 

CapnMuffin

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To me it seems like Sal's source has access to specific information... like Nintendo E3 plans, video editing documents, or something of that nature. Specific information that's somewhat old and limited. This tells me the source can leak certain characters but might not necessarily know the whole roster.
 

Joe73191

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I think those people who think the leak is fake must be really impressed with someone who is that good at guessing. Hey maybe Sal Ramano/Gematsu can pick my next lotto numbers for me. I mean if someone made such accurate guesses when it came to the triple crown in horse racing they would have made a fortune.
 

JaidynReiman

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Hey, Sal, ol' buddy! Why not try leakin' Ridley, or K Rool? To hell with the truth, you'll get a lot more people on your side that way.

Heheh. In all honesty, I don't see how some people are saying these are "lucky guesses" or whatever. C'mon, He predicted Villager AND Wii Fit Trainer! I would give him credit for the whole "Mii Fighters" thing, but apparently anyone could've known that before E3.
I still don't think Villager is that far-fetched. Hardly anyone even knew about Sakurai's comment about not making Villager work, I certainly didn't. Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men are the only real "farfetched" guesses, not that the others were "safe guesses", mind you. But they weren't all that farfetched by comparison.


While some of these may not be available due to copyrights (I have no idea what is and isn't officially owned by Nintendo), I'd recommend Fatal Frame, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Chibi Robo, Sin & Punishment and Xenoblade. Not to say Rhythm Heaven shouldn't be represented at all. Some games, I believe, should only be represented by stages/trophies/collectibles, because they just don't translate well to fighters. I don't think anybody anywhere was clamoring for a Chorus Men character before this "leak" happened.
Except maybe Fatal Frame all of those are Nintendo IP's. And hell, even Xenoblade is getting in if this leak is anything to go by.


Custom Robo games just didn't sell that well, though. They're kinda in the same boat as the "Wars" series, except the Wars series should get more than just an Assist Trophy due to being such a long-running Nintendo series, even if the sales weren't the best.

Actually, Custom Robo is far WORSE than Advance Wars. At least most the Advance Wars games topped 600k. Dual Strike is the worst actual Advance Wars game, dunno about any pre-Advance wars games, though. The best selling Custom Robo game only got about 350k.


EDIT: Sin and Punishment: Star Successor sold more than any Custom Robo game, but the original Sin and Punishment sold worse than any Custom Robo game.

Looking at sales numbers, honestly, it does look like Rhythm Heaven is next in line, though Golden Sun should be right behind it. (With Xenoblade right behind Golden Sun.)


EDIT 2: And Fatal Frame is the worst of them all.
 
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CroonerMike

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I can't wait till Sal's source says something everyone wants then everyone will believe it. >_>
 

Louie G.

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While some of these may not be available due to copyrights (I have no idea what is and isn't officially owned by Nintendo), I'd recommend Fatal Frame, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Chibi Robo, Sin & Punishment and Xenoblade. Not to say Rhythm Heaven shouldn't be represented at all. Some games, I believe, should only be represented by stages/trophies/collectibles, because they just don't translate well to fighters. I don't think anybody anywhere was clamoring for a Chorus Men character before this "leak" happened.
I never thought Chorus Kids were plausible up until the leak made me think about the possibility.

Now I'm head over heels in love with the idea.

I don't see how a rhythm based fighter wouldn't translate well into Smash.
I'm actually surprised it took us this long to get one!
 

JaidynReiman

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I can't wait till Sal's source says something everyone wants then everyone will believe it. >_>
I believe it, I just don't believe the information is 100% accurate. A lot of the names and dates were off, which means the information is extremely outdated, assuming the initial information he got was correct.

In all honesty, though, its kinda sad. If these ARE based on sales of popular franchises, Golden Sun should've easily been a top pick, based on everything I've been reading. Right after Rhythm Heaven, that is. Dark Dawn barely sold less than Rhythm Heaven Fever and Xenoblade Chronicles.

Granted, I don't believe the leak is everything we've got either. I think there's probably about 3-4 characters we don't know about. I expect Chrom, Chorus Men, and Shulk at this point, I just hope we get different Awakening and Rhythm Heaven characters.
 

staindgrey

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Except maybe Fatal Frame all of those are Nintendo IP's. And hell, even Xenoblade is getting in if this leak is anything to go by.
Fatal Frame is a Tecmo property that originally appeared on the PS2, but the Wii version was published by Nintendo and the fifth game in the series has been announced as a Wii U exclusive, published by Nintendo again. That's why they came to mind.

Regardless, my argument wasn't based solely on sales. It's also how immediately recognizable the characters would be. Every one of these franchises, I would argue, would offer a superior character choice in terms of being recognizable and well-suited for a fighting game. Still, that's intriguing information. Thanks for sharing!
 

BelowZer0

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Hey guys/girls. Have there been any more news? I had to have oral surgery so I haven't been able to keep up
 

BombKirby

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Hey, Sal, ol' buddy! Why not try leakin' Ridley, or K Rool? To hell with the truth, you'll get a lot more people on your side that way.

Heheh. In all honesty, I don't see how some people are saying these are "lucky guesses" or whatever. C'mon, He predicted Villager AND Wii Fit Trainer! I would give him credit for the whole "Mii Fighters" thing, but apparently anyone could've known that before E3.
On the flip side I feel like if he DID leak all the fan favorites it would seem like he's lying. A lot of leaks try to be too good to be true by just listing off characters that we all want. Then again this did leak Mega Man so... eh.
 

JaidynReiman

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Fatal Frame is a Tecmo property that originally appeared on the PS2, but the Wii version was published by Nintendo and the fifth game in the series has been announced as a Wii U exclusive, published by Nintendo again. That's why they came to mind.

Regardless, my argument wasn't based solely on sales. It's also how immediately recognizable the characters would be. Every one of these franchises, I would argue, would offer a superior character choice in terms of being recognizable and well-suited for a fighting game. Still, that's intriguing information. Thanks for sharing!
Well, the fact is that games that sell better are more likely to be recognizable. Well-suited for a fighting game? We've got Pac-Man and Villager. Being well-suited for a fighting game doesn't affect anything.


Still ironic that it looks like we're getting Shulk over Isaac, and yet Isaac's series has sold far better than Xenoblade Chronicles did. Except for Dark Dawn... and Dark Dawn just barely inches below Xenoblade. Yet Xenoblade is the more recognized and requested franchise? I find that hard to believe.
 

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Hey guys/girls. Have there been any more news? I had to have oral surgery so I haven't been able to keep up
Right before E3 Sal told us what the latest message from his source said ("Mii Fighters" and Pac-Man were still coming, the developers were debating whether they should cut Lucas or Ness because one is likely to get the axe, and that they're leaning toward Lucas leaving the roster), but other than that not much pertaining to this leak has happened. I suppose the character select screen theories saying the size of the screen suggests 47 characters, which falls in line with the Gematsu leaks, are worth mentioning, though.
 

FlynnCL

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Just chiming in to say that this leak has managed to grow on me to a point where I now believe it. I was certainly not expecting Pac-Man, Mii Fighter or even Little Mac those months ago. Rhythm Heaven enemies appearing in Smash Run and Sakurai's Q&A about Greninja has just made me think "well... that's that.".

Also, I really need to say that it's never a good idea to use "vgchartz.com" for any sales data. The sales numbers they give out are pure prediction and are extremely wrong virtually every single time.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Still ironic that it looks like we're getting Shulk over Isaac, and yet Isaac's series has sold far better than Xenoblade Chronicles did. Except for Dark Dawn... and Dark Dawn just barely inches below Xenoblade. Yet Xenoblade is the more recognized and requested franchise? I find that hard to believe.
No one running into Isaac as an assist trophy yet confounds me though. I really really don't see them removing Isaac/Golden Sun from Smash all together. So why have we not seen that assist trophy yet?
 

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People are going mad trying to discredit this leak. Chorus men will settle all the scores, but now we just wait.
 

JaidynReiman

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No one running into Isaac as an assist trophy yet confounds me though. I really really don't see them removing Isaac/Golden Sun from Smash all together. So why have we not seen that assist trophy yet?
Most of the unlockable AT's from Brawl haven't been seen yet. Shadow is here, but none of the others. Except maybe Barbara, I recall it being mentioned that it looked like at the tail end of one of the Smash Bros. E3 demo battles you could see what appeared to be Barbara's attack going off, but I didn't catch it so I don't know.

Then again, the only unlockable AT's I see are ones whom would be very capable of being playable characters (except Barbara) or having a character from their franchise (Infantry and Tanks).


Basically, the lack of Isaac's AT helps him, but not much. Pretty much everyone right now thinks Gematsu is all we got. About the only thing to change that dynamic is to get a non-Gematsu character reveal. Chorus Men don't seem to be the type to be revealed before release and a third FE reveal before release doesn't seem likely either, but Shulk is the perfect candidate for that, especially since the Japanese release is first.

At this rate, if Gematsu isn't all we have and Isaac is playable, I think he's unlockable. Or he'll end up as DLC.


Also, I really need to say that it's never a good idea to use "vgchartz.com" for any sales data. The sales numbers they give out are pure prediction and are extremely wrong virtually every single time.
Its about the best we can do for right now. I know VGChartz is inaccurate, but if we take into account the fact that a lot of these games are fairly old we can reasonably assume that many of them have updated sales from verifiable sources. Its not the best comparison, but its the only thing we do have, and since its comparing the games together we can see relatively where they fall into line and how one franchise fared against another.
 

themagicalcake

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The thing that bothers me about Fire Emblem in smash is that they are all swordsmen. Before playing Fire Emblem on the 3DS I thought the game was all swords and no other weapons because of smash. I'd really prefer a spear user from Fire Emblem because I think it would make for an interesting moveset but this leak is pretty much confirmed after the rhythm heaven enemy
 

staindgrey

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The thing that bothers me about Fire Emblem in smash is that they are all swordsmen. Before playing Fire Emblem on the 3DS I thought the game was all swords and no other weapons because of smash. I'd really prefer a spear user from Fire Emblem because I think it would make for an interesting moveset but this leak is pretty much confirmed after the rhythm heaven enemy
I feel like it's hardly confirmed because of one enemy.

It may very well end up true, but that detail alone doesn't prove a thing.
 

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Just chiming in to say that this leak has managed to grow on me to a point where I now believe it. I was certainly not expecting Pac-Man, Mii Fighter or even Little Mac those months ago. Rhythm Heaven enemies appearing in Smash Run and Sakurai's Q&A about Greninja has just made me think "well... that's that.".
Yeah the Greninja Q&A really clinched it for me. Also worth noting that according to the Developer round table, even the Treehouse has closed-doors policies against some of its own staff - like there's "Top Secret," and then there's "I hope you borrowed Sakurai's eyeball for a retinal scan." That actually sheds some light on why the leaker could miss some of the reveals, like Rosalina.

I see a lot of talk about DLC. I thought it was pretty clear earlier on that Smash 4 wouldn't have it... has something changed?
 

dezeray112

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It's gonna suck if the Chorus Men are unlockable because even if the leak is true I won't believe it till I see chorus men.

No.
Why? Chrom and Shulk are also within the claims too. Either one of those 3 could strengthen the leak even further if shown at some point.

I guess all we can do is either see what comes up within the next following months before the Japanese 3DS version comes out.
 
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Luigi#1

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Why? Chrom and Shulk are also within the claims too. Either one of those 3 could strengthen the leak even further if shown at some point.

I guess all we can do is either see what comes up within the next following months before the Japanese 3DS version comes out.
But they wouldn't be the deciding point. They aren't wild guesses. They would somewhat strengthen it though. Both of them combined may convince some people. Not me and many others though.
 
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I honestly cannot wait for the WRATH that will rain down on whoever the first nitwit is after chorus men get confirmed to say "it was a lucky guess!" Or "they were expected".

That is going to be some entertaining stuff you couldn't buy on PPV.
 

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My problem with the leak so far is thus:

While there is some evidence for it, there are some very glaring points against it that seem to be overlooked or shooed away.
So far, these are the points that I believe have not been discussed successfully enough to give it a "true" verdict for myself personally.

1. Ambiguity of terms.

Oh look, I'm bringing Villager and Greninja up again.

"Animal Crossing Guy"
Mentioning a series name like this is where I feel the key difference lies. My point is thus:
There are no real "recurring" characters in Animal Crossing that can be construed as a main character.
So, we have to look at a character that's the face of the series, that everyone knows. In my eyes, (as well as a fair few other people) this is Tom Nook. I would argue that, if you're saying "Animal Crossing Guy", my initial reaction would be to think of Tom Nook.

The main attraction and features of Animal Crossing are the animals that you share a town with, lending further credibility to this. Everyone remembers that annoying racoon that makes you pay an assload of bells just to get your house. In this way, the most memorable characters are the main focus of the Animal Crossing franchise. This time around, it would be Isabelle and Tom Nook.

"Pokemon from X/Y"
I find it an absurd notion that he would not mention Greninja by name. If he had access to this information, he would have known it was Greninja and in that case, why not say Greninja?
The evidence being given for this is that Sakurai said that they had an open slot for a Pokemon from X and Y, yes.
However, if you listen on a little further? They chose Greninja very early and Sakurai worked on him in the same night. So, Greninja was basically decided on overnight.
If he knows the other characters, why not Greninja? At this point, the roster is very likely not to be finalised and the "fringe" picks such as "Chorus Men" would be done near to the end. Seeing as Pokemon is such more of a prevalent franchise than Rhythm Heaven, I am 100% certain that he would be decided on before them.

TL;DR: If he has access to more of the "strange" pick information (WFT, Villager), why did he not know about Greninja, when by then, he was most likely finalised?

2. Too little information and looking beyond the face value.

This is a short and brief point, nowhere near as much as the previous point, but if you listen to a lot of people here, you would believe that the Chorus Men are confirmed, just because there's a Rhythm Heaven enemy in Smash Run.
Could it be possible that that enemy was chosen because it's an iconic enemy? There is zero correlation between an enemy being available in Smash Run and a character being playable. A Poppant is an enemy in Smash Run, does that mean for example a Primid is playable in Smash? Of course not, but that's the logic that is being followed.

3. Timeframes.

While it may not have been explicitly stated, it was very heavily implied that Shulk, Chrom and Chorus Men would be shown at e3. They were not.

For me, these points are enough to discredit the leak as a whole, along with the fact that Rosalina was not predicted. If Rosalina had been predicted, along with the others in this leak, I would be more inclined to believe it, but with the information and disrepancies withstanding, I just can't, there's too much evidence against it for me and while it cannot be proved either way, I feel the evidence comes down on the side of false. However, if it is proved to be true, I will state that I was wrong in this thread for everyone to see.
 

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People need to seriously stop saying Wii Fit Trainer was an easy guess. It wasn't. Please stop saying it was- you sound like a fool.
 

Warzenschwein

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Do we need a logician to confirm once again that the leak is neither real nor debunked until the game is out?
 
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Bowserlick

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People who think the Sal leak is a string of lucky guesses should approach the rumor from a different angle.

Sal has not been proven wrong. There has been no guess that translated into a stage hazard or assist trophy.

Who has guessed an entire Smash roster without getting anything wrong?
 
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Backgammon

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Do we need a logician to confirm once again that the leak is neither real nor debunked until the game is out?
Apparently so. I just tried to post in a non-confronting manner my opinions and logic and the first response was "Hurr it's true".

I like to think I'm keeping an open mind, but there's still all to play for, so to speak. When the Japanese get the game, we'll know for sure.
 

MissingNumbers

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My problem with the leak so far is thus:

While there is some evidence for it, there are some very glaring points against it that seem to be overlooked or shooed away.
[...]
Well, regarding your first point, one would assume that a "guy" would be most likely referring to a human in this connotation. A specification of "raccoon" would make it much more solidly leading to Tom Nook, while "guy" makes more sense as the Villager overall. I don't have much to say about the Greninja comment because it's overstayed its welcome as a topic.

For your second point, more specifically on your mention of the Sneaky Spirit, there isn't much in the way of solid "enemies" in Rhythm Heaven. Especially since they were more deemed as pests than threats in the game itself. And on that matter, why represent Rhythm Heaven with an enemy to begin with? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it?
 
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