The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

[Backgammon]

For your second point, more specifically on your mention of the Sneaky Spirit, there isn't much in the way of solid "enemies" in Rhythm Heaven. Especially since they were more deemed as pests than threats in the game itself. And on that matter, why represent Rhythm Heaven with an enemy to begin with? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it?

This is exactly what I'm getting at. In Rhythm Heaven, the only construed possible "enemy" would be the Sneaky Spirits. You literally shoot them in the face with a bow. This would be a good chance to get Rhythm Heaven representation without a character or stage. (A stage would be awesome, though.) By that same logic, why have Subspace enemies return? Is there going to be a Subspace stage or character? Why only represent the entirety of the massive story mode of the previous game with just enemies?

 

[Robertman2]

And why there any Fire Emblem or Metroid enemies?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

People need to seriously stop saying Wii Fit Trainer was an easy guess. It wasn't. Please stop saying it was- you sound like a fool.

It's so funny, people keep saying every character on this was an easy guess, but let's go back to pre-E3 2013. Characters like Pac-Man and Mii weren't considered likely, nearly everyone expected there to be no Pokémon newcomer and just have Mewtwo put on the roster, Villager was considered impossible because of Sakurai's comment, and Wii Fit Trainer was never seriously considered. The only easy guesses on here have been Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena and Chrom, the rest aren't.

If the roster was filled with previously often guessed characters like Ridley, Takamaru and K. Rool I could buy that it were easy guesses, but they weren't.

The fact that he has predicted everyone right except Rosalina, that none of his predictions have been reduced to ATs, and even predicted things like Mii Fighter and Pokémon from X/Y (that we know was what Greninja was written down as initially) makes this everything but a guess, they're facts at this point.

 

[NoiseHERO]

A Warioware AND Rhythm heaven stage would be awesome.

Mostly a Rhythm Heaven stage. With a trippy background and music from some of the mixes.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Just chiming in to say that this leak has managed to grow on me to a point where I now believe it. I was certainly not expecting Pac-Man, Mii Fighter or even Little Mac those months ago. Rhythm Heaven enemies appearing in Smash Run and Sakurai's Q&A about Greninja has just made me think "well... that's that.".

Also, I really need to say that it's never a good idea to use "vgchartz.com" for any sales data. The sales numbers they give out are pure prediction and are extremely wrong virtually every single time.

That might be true for initial numbers, but VGChartz adjust for numbers over time (for things like NPD and Media Create) so their numbers for established games are actually fairly accurate.

Well, the fact is that games that sell better are more likely to be recognizable. Well-suited for a fighting game? We've got Pac-Man and Villager. Being well-suited for a fighting game doesn't affect anything.
Still ironic that it looks like we're getting Shulk over Isaac, and yet Isaac's series has sold far better than Xenoblade Chronicles did. Except for Dark Dawn... and Dark Dawn just barely inches below Xenoblade. Yet Xenoblade is the more recognized and requested franchise? I find that hard to believe.

The difference is that Xenoblade is (seemingly) on the rise and Golden Sun is in sharp decline. I want Isaac in the game and I hope they do make a new Golden Sun, but each game in the series has lower sales and worse reviews then it's predecessor. Nintendo might not want to invest in a series like that over a series they feel has growth potential.

 

[MissingNumbers]

This is exactly what I'm getting at. In Rhythm Heaven, the only construed possible "enemy" would be the Sneaky Spirits. You literally shoot them in the face with a bow. This would be a good chance to get Rhythm Heaven representation without a character or stage. (A stage would be awesome, though.) By that same logic, why have Subspace enemies return? Is there going to be a Subspace stage or character? Why only represent the entirety of the massive story mode of the previous game with just enemies?

There are other "enemies" in Rhythm Heaven, such as the demons of Samurai Slice. As for the Subspace notion, did it even really have anything to it other than enemies? They're just in for the sake of reusing them.

 

[Chauzu]

I think this thread can pretty much just be locked by now. The leak is real; go home people.

Can we just lock this thread now? Because people will just assume the leak is real despite three characters - one being Chorus Men - isn't confirmed yet.

People really need to draw a line between the different parts of this leak - only the 1st part has basically been confirmed to be true but from the 2nd leak "only" Palutena and Greninja ("Pokémon from X/Y) have been confirmed. Both were shoe-ins (not only in retrospect!) and the big two - Shulk and Chorus Men - are yet to be confirmed. I think the leak will prove right in the end but let's not go ahead of ourselves. A rep from Chorus Men makes or breaks this leak. Nothing has changed about this since before E3.

 

[NoiseHERO]

The only easy guesses on here have been Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena and Chrom, the rest aren't.

If the roster was filled with previously often guessed characters like Ridley and K. Rool I could buy that it were easy guesses, but they weren't.

Out of curiosity what made Megaman and Mac, Palutena easy? palutena I could kind of imagine, and mac did promote from a trophy, But for Mega Man I feel like anyone 3rd party, heavy Nintendo history/born on Nintendo or not is a long shot. I'm curious what the evidence was.

 

[ChillySundance]

This is exactly what I'm getting at. In Rhythm Heaven, the only construed possible "enemy" would be the Sneaky Spirits. You literally shoot them in the face with a bow. This would be a good chance to get Rhythm Heaven representation without a character or stage. (A stage would be awesome, though.) By that same logic, why have Subspace enemies return? Is there going to be a Subspace stage or character? Why only represent the entirety of the massive story mode of the previous game with just enemies?

There are other 'enemies' in Rhythm Heaven who could work too. The evil spirits from Samurai Slice come to mind. Samurai Slice has also shown up in multiple Rhythm Heaven games, being a recurring minigame with several iterations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Sneaky Spirits only showed up in the DS game, Rhythm Paradise...which coincidentally is the only game the Chorus Men have featured in specifically.

 

[ChillySundance]

edit: loading error caused me to double post. Please delete this.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Out of curiosity what made Megaman and Mac, Palutena easy? palutena I could kind of imagine, and mac did promote from a trophy, But for Mega Man I feel like anyone 3rd party, heavy Nintendo history/born on Nintendo or not is a long shot. I'm curious what the evidence was.

Capcom coming out and saying they'd like for it to happen, Mega Man being highly requested (as in most requested newcomer) and having great importance to Nintendo, tons of moveset potential. He was a no-brainer imo.

Palutena is Sakurai's baby at this point, and with its recent revival Kid Icarus warranted another character. Likewise with Little Mac he was highly requested for Brawl, and with a recent revival and tons of moveset potential he was regularly considered the most likely newcomer.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Again I don't see how e3 significantly increased the validity of this leak. So any comments like "It's obvious the leak is real now" kind of fall flat.

Palutena, Miis, and Pacman were easily among the highest guessed and expected chars at every point in this game's development. I also don't treat the rhythm heaven enemy in Smash Run as anything relevant because these games are KNOWN for including as many game references as possible, in terms of enemies, ATs, trophies, etc.

I'm still banking on the leaker knowing E3 info only and guessing the rest.

 

[Ryan.]

I'm not gonna 100% believe this leak until the Chorus Men are revealed, but right now it's pretty darn likely and I have seen all over the place people with Shulk, Chrom, and Chorus Men on their rosters (including me).

I actually like that this leak isn't including so many fan favorites, makes me believe it more. I feel like this person is leaking what they believe is true and not just trying to gain publicity and attention, like that other recent leaker before E3.

 

[NoiseHERO]

So...

Even if all the characters are confirmed. This will just turn into whether or not he's an amazing guesser or actually got some inside info somewhere right?

 

[egaddmario]

So...

Even if all the characters are confirmed. This will just turn into whether or not he's an amazing guesser or actually got some inside info somewhere right?

"He just guessed everything guys. I mean, everything was really easy to guess anyways."

 

[Mysteltainn]

Ok you got this all wrong. Sal not mentioning a character does not hurt the leak nor does it help it. IF and I mean IF he said "Rosalina is not in the game" then it would hurt the leak. And the rest of the characters are not newcomers so lol. And Im sorry like it or not almost EVERYTHING Sal has said is confirmed to be true so far. His entire first leak is correct and only 3 more characters needed to be showed to show you guys shot your self in the foot for not beileving him.

He got multiple dates and specifics wrong, actually. Also, everyone except for Wii Fit Trainer was pretty much an educated guess to me. Villager was always considered, Pac-Man was obvious, and Miis were screaming to get in. The idea of Little Mac was also flying around for years.

If we end up getting Shulk and Chorus Men, and Ness or Lucas gets implemented by DLC (that's really putting himself out there), then I may start listening, but I'm taking these guys with a shaker of salt. At the very least, I'd give these guys credit for knowing E3 info, but that's it; I highly doubt they're people on the 'inside'. I believe this because he is very vague when talking about the actual detail, and lacks specifics such as characters like Zelda / Sheik being split, names, and content, unlike Chaos Zero and that girl with Brawl, who were able to leak the whole roster.

In the end, I don't care if they're wrong or right. I'd be content with the roster as it is right now, actually (with the missing veterans like Ganon / Capt / Ness etc in of course). However, I'm just putting out warning that yes, you're right, it's important not to outright dismiss Sal as I am, but it's also important not to cling to him as truth, either. Not yet anyway.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

It's fun to watch people over rationalize the red flags of the leak and it's fun to watch people over emphasize the importance of the red flags of the leak. Like all debates, both sides have their irrationally biased people, when it's clear that the leak has solid accuracy with poor precision in regards to names and time frames. The franchises are pretty much set to have representation, we could get some variation in what we get from RH and possibly from FE, sure. There is definitely an amount of correctness to the leak with some minor error, that could be intentional. The characters seem to be the characters that would cause the most controversy (for lack of a better word, perhaps a combination of expected characters, characters people thought they didn't want, and characters that would recieve mixed reactions) and being received with mixed reactions and aren't as "hype" as say, Mewtwo, Ridley, K Rool, and Isaac... (that's an opinion I guess)

No indication that this is all of the newcomers, seems highly unlikely they were all supposed to be revealed before release with no other surprises besides veterans. Plus the Rosalina argument proves that the leak didn't contain all newcomers, question is was Rosalina all we will see outside the leal. Just seems like pessimistic hysteria to me.

And I could have sworn the leak mentioned that 2014's E3 character reveals could have included any combination of the Gematsu list of characters, AND/OR a character not connected to the leak. If anyone remembers/ can confirm that... Maybe it was a different leak but I could have sworn...

And why hate the leak if it's not the entire list of newcomers? That seems like the reason why people would have a problem with these characters, unless they wanted a different rep from a series besides the one leaked.

What's really odd is Ness/Lucas still being decided and DLC characters... That's sticking his neck out a bit more and makes me question the fates of other semi-clones. What will become of Falco/Wolf? I imagine Ganon(dorf) will be completely decloned this time around. Custom moves seem to be the death-sentence for clones.

That's the general sense I have of this thread.

 

[egaddmario]

What's really odd is Ness/Lucas still being decided and DLC characters... That's sticking his neck out a bit more and makes me question the fates of other semi-clones. What will become of Falco/Wolf? I imagine Ganon(dorf) will be completely decloned this time around. Custom moves seem to be the death-sentence for clones.

That's the general sense I have of this thread.

Until we get something like Warlock Punch, Gerudo Punch, and Dark Aura Punch....

 

[Ryan.]

Custom move-sets really do have me fear for Lucas. Their moves had very similar animations and they could easily give Lucas' moves as one of the customs for Ness.

Back on topic though, the fact that Rosalina was never mentioned doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm guessing he didn't know about Rosalina until awhile after his first leak, and she was planned to be leaked with the newer 5, but she was revealed earlier than he expected.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Until we get something like Warlock Punch, Gerudo Punch, and Dark Aura Punch....

What? I was saying custom moves seem like they quadruple the redundancy of a clone therefore either putting their return in jeopardy or causing them to be completely decloned. If decloned, their old build would perhaps be achievable through custom moves. If removed, perhaps they could share a slot with their "parent." But, Toon Link didn't change much so. (in regards to Ness v Lucas in the leak, trying to avoid being off topic)

 

[Stalking Fury]

Y'all are so ignorant. Lol.

 

[MissingNumbers]

Y'all are so ignorant. Lol.

I fail to see how this adds to the conversation.

 

[egaddmario]

What? I was saying custom moves seem like they quadruple the redundancy of a clone therefore either putting their return in jeopardy or causing them to be completely decloned. If decloned, their old build would perhaps be achievable through custom moves. If removed, perhaps they could share a slot with their "parent." But, Toon Link didn't change much so. (in regards to Ness v Lucas in the leak, trying to avoid being off topic)

I'm joking. We've seen the custom moves are just adaptations of the special moves. Like fireballs are small fireballs and monster fireballs or something like that. They're both fireballs though. I'd like to see Ganondorf decloned, but i'm not hopefully considering Brawl...

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Custom move-sets really do have me fear for Lucas. Their moves had very similar animations and they could easily give Lucas' moves as one of the customs for Ness.

Back on topic though, the fact that Rosalina was never mentioned doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm guessing he didn't know about Rosalina until awhile after his first leak, and she was planned to be leaked with the newer 5, but she was revealed earlier than he expected.

If the roster was set from the beginning as Sakurai mentioned in the Q&A, the only reason he wouldn't have known is if he didn't have access to the information, bringing into question the real question, are there others he didn't know about or share? Because it's also possible he knows more but has withheld that information. We know with Pokemon they had a slot reserved for an X/Y rep, an argument used to support the leak, so if Rosalina wasn't settled on at the time, the leaker should have known there was a slot reserved for a character from Mario, using the same logic. The fact remains that there was one character revealed that wasn't leaked, based on the given information, that doesn't mean nothing.

But Rosalina could have been the only one.

I believe the leak, I don't believe it is all we'll get because it's not, the question is whether or not Rosalina is the only character we'll get outside the leak.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Custom move-sets really do have me fear for Lucas. Their moves had very similar animations and they could easily give Lucas' moves as one of the customs for Ness.

Back on topic though, the fact that Rosalina was never mentioned doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm guessing he didn't know about Rosalina until awhile after his first leak, and she was planned to be leaked with the newer 5, but she was revealed earlier than he expected.

Yes but even then, all of their aerials/ground attacks/smashes (except fsmash) were very different.

They're completely different characters, and if anything, I'd say during the next smash direct we'll see clones that have the same specials/anything... get decloned.

That's probably why we haven't seen ANY clone reveals, so don't expect Falco/Wolf Lucas/Ness Falcon/Ganon to be shown until there's a smash direct to cover changes.

Toon Link is the exception, and if anything I'd say we'll see Mr. Game and Watch, or someone who has ALL character unique moves as a POTD reveal.

 

[Ryan.]

If the roster was set from the beginning as Sakurai mentioned in the Q&A, the only reason he wouldn't have known is if he didn't have access to the information, bringing into question the real question, are there others he didn't know about or share? Because it's also possible he knows more but has withheld that information. We know with Pokemon they had a slot reserved for an X/Y rep, an argument used to support the leak, so if Rosalina wasn't settled on at the time, the leaker should have known there was a slot reserved for a character from Mario, using the same logic. The fact remains that there was one character revealed that wasn't leaked, based on the given information, that doesn't mean nothing.

But Rosalina could have been the only one.

I believe the leak, I don't believe it is all we'll get because it's not, the question is whether or not Rosalina is the only character we'll get outside the leak.

Hmm interesting. You got me there lol. Perhaps he was withholding information, or maybe things weren't working well with Rosalina and he figured he shouldn't announce her in case she was cut, just to be safe. I mean Sakurai expressed complications with the 3DS involving the Ice Climbers, I think getting the Luma to work correctly was no small feat.

I personally believe Rosalina isn't the only newcomer we will get that isn't a part of the leak. I expect at least 2 more for some reason that Sal's tipper isn't telling us.

Yes but even then, all of their aerials/ground attacks/smashes (except fsmash) were very different.

They're completely different characters, and if anything, I'd say during the next smash direct we'll see clones that have the same specials/anything... get decloned.

That's probably why we haven't seen ANY clone reveals, so don't expect Falco/Wolf Lucas/Ness Falcon/Ganon to be shown until there's a smash direct to cover changes.

Toon Link is the exception, and if anything I'd say we'll see Mr. Game and Watch, or someone who has ALL character unique moves as a POTD reveal.

Oh no doubt. I know Ness and Lucas are very different, hence why I support them both (as you can see in my signature). I did prefer Lucas in Brawl because of his aerials, tilts, smashes, and even specials. I believe he was my third most used character. It is good news that only the special moves, from what we have seen so far, can be customized. Gives me a little hope for Lucas' return. I full expect Ness to return.

Let's hope we get that Smash Direct though. I would hate for Lucas to be cut with Ness given a mixture of his and Lucas' aerials and whatnot. That would suck.

 

[NoiseHERO]

Something tells me that even if they do have more of what we consider "clones"

They'll probably get their own unique "customization" options. see's as how the mii's can come in 3 different forms that much sounds like nothing. >_>;;

But maybe at the top of my head I'm being absent minded somewhere, but do we even have clones as the moment? I get the feeling that they'll want every character to be as unique as possible in this game. Or at least the same difference between Mario and Luigi. (would be good enough for me.)

So I don't believe in move customization cutting off some characters. But someone like Lucas being dropped does sound believable imo.

As for the legitimacy of the leak, we seriously have come a long way even if you think all of his guesses are safe... that's a LOT of "safe" guesses... And even thinking like that, to me it sounds like part of why he was vague on some details, is because he barely knew much about the characters "Animal crossing guy."

 

[HugoBoss]

The leak obviously is "legit"


Doesn't mean we should take everything this guy says as final , all of his data is outdated and incomplete. It is most likely he does not know about the full roster.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Frankly, the fact that there is a Rhythm Heaven enemy in Smash Run should essentially only add onto the fact that there's going to be a Rhythm Heaven character. This leak is legit.

Doesn't mean there can't be any other characters though. Don't lose hope just yet.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Something tells me that even if they do have more of what we consider "clones"

They'll probably get their own unique "customization" options. see's as how the mii's can come in 3 different forms that much sounds like nothing. >_>;;

But maybe at the top of my head I'm being absent minded somewhere, but do we even have clones as the moment? I get the feeling that they'll want every character to be as unique as possible in this game. Or at least the same difference between Mario and Luigi. (would be good enough for me.)

So I don't believe in move customization cutting off some characters. But someone like Lucas being dropped does sound believable imo.

Saying Lucas will be cut because he's like Ness is like saying Falco and Wolf will be cut because they're like Fox.

Not only that, but there's 3 Star Fox characters, and only 2 Mother characters. No reason to cut one.

Fox/Falco have the same specials, the same dair, similar up airs, same bairs, similar throws, same dsmash/usmash, Wolf is less of a clone, but still similar enough.

And then Ganondorf/Falcon are just obvious clones, which shouldn't ever be, Ganondorf doesn't feel like Ganondorf, or like he even represents the series well at all.

At least Lucas has a unique PK Fire, mostly the only move he has that's a clone move is...
- Up Special - Functions differently than Ness
- Down B - Holds to the side, magnet pulling is a thing
- Side Smash is pretty much the same, but that's not a big deal.

Saying they're clones is like saying Luigi and Mario are clones because their Up B's are both uppercuts, and they both shoot fire, but in reality their specials function MUCH differently.

 

[Phaazoid]

Saying Lucas will be cut because he's like Ness is like saying Falco and Wolf will be cut because they're like Fox.

Not only that, but there's 3 Star Fox characters, and only 2 Mother characters. No reason to cut one.

Fox/Falco have the same specials, the same dair, similar up airs, same bairs, similar throws, same dsmash/usmash, Wolf is less of a clone, but still similar enough.

And then Ganondorf/Falcon are just obvious clones, which shouldn't ever be, Ganondorf doesn't feel like Ganondorf, or like he even represents the series well at all.

At least Lucas has a unique PK Fire, mostly the only move he has that's a clone move is...
- Up Special - Functions differently than Ness
- Down B - Holds to the side, magnet pulling is a thing
- Side Smash is pretty much the same, but that's not a big deal.

Saying they're clones is like saying Luigi and Mario are clones because their Up B's are both uppercuts, and they both shoot fire, but in reality their specials function MUCH differently.

Lucas won't be cut because he's too much like ness. That's kinda silly, I agree.

Lucas will be cut because the leaker told us it's likely.

 

[egaddmario]

Something tells me that even if they do have more of what we consider "clones"

They'll probably get their own unique "customization" options. see's as how the mii's can come in 3 different forms that much sounds like nothing. >_>;;

But maybe at the top of my head I'm being absent minded somewhere, but do we even have clones as the moment? I get the feeling that they'll want every character to be as unique as possible in this game. Or at least the same difference between Mario and Luigi. (would be good enough for me.)

So I don't believe in move customization cutting off some characters. But someone like Lucas being dropped does sound believable imo.

As for the legitimacy of the leak, we seriously have come a long way even if you think all of his guesses are safe... that's a LOT of "safe" guesses... And even thinking like that, to me it sounds like part of why he was vague on some details, is because he barely knew much about the characters "Animal crossing guy."

To be fair, the Brawl trophy for the male Animal Crossing protagonist is referred to as "Animal Crossing Boy"...

 

[Ryan.]

Yeah, I can see why people fear that these are the last three newcomers because the roster is getting up there in size with all the unconfirmed veterans, but I think we will get more newcomers other than these three, assuming the leak is legit. Sal's tipper never said that these newcomers are the only newcomers, and again, Rosalina. In every game we have also gotten unlockable newcomers as well that we will find out post-release.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Yeah, I can see why people fear that these are the last three newcomers because the roster is getting up there in size with all the unconfirmed veterans, but I think we will get more newcomers other than these three, assuming the leak is legit. Sal's tipper never said that these newcomers are the only newcomers, and again, Rosalina. In every game we have also gotten unlockable newcomers as well that we will find out post-release.

I feel as though we'll see more veterans return from melee, and then we'll see DECLONES.

Brawls roster felt smaller because of clones, if you take old characters, declone them, then add a few more, it'll feel like a much more complete game.

We'll just have to see, but I'm willing to bet this game will feel better, after all, Brawl had usable tier, then everyone below was just "Are you even wanting to win?". I think that won't be the case for this game.

 

[Louie G.]

Anyone saying that Sneaky Spirit in Smash Run doesn't basically confirm a Rhythm Heaven character of some sort is being ridiculous.

Sneaky Spirit is from one Rhythm Heaven minigame. RH has no enemies, no main characters, no recurring locales even.
Seeing that we got a reference this obscure makes me confident that a Rhythm Heaven character is coming.

Take it from a big Rhythm Heaven fan.
I've never even CONSIDERED Sneaky Spirits a plausible enemy.
And I doubt anyone here has either.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Lucas won't be cut because he's too much like ness. That's kinda silly, I agree.

Lucas will be cut because the leaker told us it's likely.

I haven't lost hope for him yet, I'm going for the "Lucas is likely to make the cut" theory.

If anything, RE-WORK Ness/Lucas to be defensive/buff reliable (Wii Fit Trainer gets a buff, they might do it this time around) and add an actual PSI user, (Kumatora, or Paula) that actually uses PK Fire/Thunder.

It'd be neat to see Duster with his thief tools as well, but I doubt we'll see any of them come into the battle... unless there's a Mother 3 western release/remake.

If that's revealed next month 7/27 my entire view on the Smash roster for Mother will be changed.

I'll expect 3 mother reps is all I'm gonna say.

 

[Ryan.]

Saying Lucas will be cut because he's like Ness is like saying Falco and Wolf will be cut because they're like Fox.

Not only that, but there's 3 Star Fox characters, and only 2 Mother characters. No reason to cut one.

Fox/Falco have the same specials, the same dair, similar up airs, same bairs, similar throws, same dsmash/usmash, Wolf is less of a clone, but still similar enough.

And then Ganondorf/Falcon are just obvious clones, which shouldn't ever be, Ganondorf doesn't feel like Ganondorf, or like he even represents the series well at all.

At least Lucas has a unique PK Fire, mostly the only move he has that's a clone move is...
- Up Special - Functions differently than Ness
- Down B - Holds to the side, magnet pulling is a thing
- Side Smash is pretty much the same, but that's not a big deal.

Saying they're clones is like saying Luigi and Mario are clones because their Up B's are both uppercuts, and they both shoot fire, but in reality their specials function MUCH differently.

To add to this...

Lucas' down special also can be used as an attack move, and his neutral special, while working the same as Ness', still moves faster and has a completely different name/effect. They could easily change Lucas' side special and even then he will be considerably different.

I feel as though we'll see more veterans return from melee, and then we'll see DECLONES.

Brawls roster felt smaller because of clones, if you take old characters, declone them, then add a few more, it'll feel like a much more complete game.

We'll just have to see, but I'm willing to bet this game will feel better, after all, Brawl had usable tier, then everyone below was just "Are you even wanting to win?". I think that won't be the case for this game.

Declones would be awesome. I would actually prefer a completely decloned Ganondorf over a Zelda newcomer with less importance to the franchise. Mewtwo who was never a clone to begin with returning would be so much hype. I feel like Smash 4 has so much potential and it is looking great already.

 

[egaddmario]

Anyone saying that Sneaky Spirit in Smash Run doesn't basically confirm a Rhythm Heaven character of some sort is being ridiculous.

Sneaky Spirit is from one Rhythm Heaven minigame. RH has no enemies, no main characters, no recurring locales even.
Seeing that we got a reference this obscure makes me confident that a Rhythm Heaven character is coming.

Take it from a big Rhythm Heaven fan.
I've never even CONSIDERED Sneaky Spirits a plausible enemy.
And I doubt anyone here has either.

Except Sakurai. That man is a genius.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

To add to this...

Lucas' down special also can be used as an attack move, and his neutral special, while working the same as Ness', still moves faster and has a completely different name/effect. They could easily change Lucas' side special and even then he will be considerably different.

Just more reason why Lucas is more viable to come back than both Falco/Wolf.

If Lucas is cut, then either Falco/Wolf should be cut, because he is far less of a clone than those 2.



Declones would be awesome. I would actually prefer a completely decloned Ganondorf over a Zelda newcomer with less importance to the franchise. Mewtwo who was never a clone to begin with returning would be so much hype. I feel like Smash 4 has so much potential and it is looking great already.

This is why I believe we won't be getting more than 5 more newcomers announced (including so said Gematsu leaked ones)
Re-adding veterans and making them feel unique would be much better than keeping them around as clones, or forgotten characters.

 

[NoiseHERO]

Saying Lucas will be cut because he's like Ness is like saying Falco and Wolf will be cut because they're like Fox.

Not only that, but there's 3 Star Fox characters, and only 2 Mother characters. No reason to cut one.

Fox/Falco have the same specials, the same dair, similar up airs, same bairs, similar throws, same dsmash/usmash, Wolf is less of a clone, but still similar enough.

And then Ganondorf/Falcon are just obvious clones, which shouldn't ever be, Ganondorf doesn't feel like Ganondorf, or like he even represents the series well at all.

At least Lucas has a unique PK Fire, mostly the only move he has that's a clone move is...
- Up Special - Functions differently than Ness
- Down B - Holds to the side, magnet pulling is a thing
- Side Smash is pretty much the same, but that's not a big deal.

Saying they're clones is like saying Luigi and Mario are clones because their Up B's are both uppercuts, and they both shoot fire, but in reality their specials function MUCH differently.

I'm not saying they're clones, I'm not saying Lucas will be cut BECAUSE he's a clone, I even said that I don't believe move customization means clones will be cut by default like some people have been speculating. Hell, I've never understood the concept of calling character's "clones" to begin with. I was just using it because it seemed to be the common term for characters with similar move sets(visually). and if anything I LIKE/WELCOME them all the same. Just to have the characters.

What I was mostly getting it was that the "clones" MIGHT be made to be vastly more unique(and as I've already said, have their own set of move customization.) As I've also already said, I consider someone like wolf/luigi to be different enough from their similar counterparts to not even be called "clones." But that's just me, If anything I'm guessing they might even still be similar to their old forms, just made more unique in general. At least to the point where the "clone" nickname become unfair I guess.

As for Lucas, I'm sorry if the thought affects you emotionally(earthbound avatar), and that's what led you to reply this way, but it's mostly just a gut feeling that he could be cut. Mother is popular in Japan, but these guys couldn't even properly give us the game Lucas was from, actually they just didn't. I wouldn't be surprised if they mirrored that in smash and pulled out, just because of his weak relevance outside of a fan-base. But if he does come back, would be nice if his game came out too. <_<