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The Official Snake Video Critique Thread!

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
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Apopka Florida
I played a tink in wsf on the weekend, think I played the mu pretty well. We outcamp him somehow lol

Vids should be up today/tomorrow.

:phone:
Cool look forward to it. It's been AGES since i've had to play the tink mu but i feel it's relatively easy if you know what your doing. I need to be ready for all matchups for apex though...so vids to study i guess~
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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Melbourne, Australia
more than anything, you dash too much.

dashing basically limits your options to dash attack, dash grab, dacus and nade pull, none of which trade or beat marth's fair/sideB. while walking or standing still, you maintain the threat of utilt, threaten to punish any whiffed attacks (except landing fair) with a dash attack, and can camp when the spacing becomes available. its a much stronger position to be in, espc against marth/mk, who both dominate up close and should be hard camped against.

this was particularly evident when you tried to follow up attacks, all dacus followups were punished pretty simply, as were straight dashes. using this time to set up a camping zone would probably be a safer (and more effective) use of the breathing time.

it also significantly lowers your chance of tripping :troll:

one other thing that was pretty big in that match was hasty recovery. its a pretty common thing that most snakes do (myself included, when im tired/lazy/angry) that is almost never worth it. when you get hit away, and you think you can land safely near the edge without using upB, 9/10 it is unsafe and will be punished by fast moving characters. sometimes you might land safely, but most of the time, you will not.

this is effectively how you lost the first two stock; you landing on the sv platform near the side without upBing, marth chased and punished your landing. landing near the centre, using nades to create space and wavebounces to avoid pursuit is a much safer way of getting back on the stage, instead of trying to land straigh away. and if you get hit near the middle, you've got a much higher chance of surviving, too.
 

jbandrew

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Location
Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FI6TK9CdDE&feature=feedu

No johns, but 1 pat G di and 2 trips. regardless Keitaro was still outplaying me.

Besides that horrible risk at the end, what was I doing wrong?
Oki false so you know I know the marth MU. It's a very simple mu @ heart, but you always have to be on your toes cuz marth is fast!!

This is all you have to do:

1. Camp and always have a nade beside you, it'll make it harder for marth to approach you cause he'll be risking a trade which doesn't benefit him IF you mess up. He shouldn't be trading with you if you make the correct read.

Ok so this is all you have to do:

If marth is running at you, you obviously pivot grab.
If marth @ any given moment jumps at you, space an utilt.
3.???
4.Profit.

It's really as simple as that. Just be a mobile camper by getting out of bad situations with Up B/DACUS and play the basics really well and you should beat marth.
 

SolarSkurge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
340
Location
Paducah KY, Southern IL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QhhBMGipio

critique please?

i need to work out a strategy on the Electric transformation :(
Gotta stay on your feet when playing any ROB. Most of his attacks will detonate the explosions, so I'd say your best possibility would be to use your explosives to lead him into all your tilts and aerials, since it's a hassle to really get him with any.
 

False

Smash Lord
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Heaven's Arena, Republic of Padokea
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Falsified
1st game, around 3:00 you got impatient and approached incorrectly, ate damage. you do it against last stock. you should realize that better players will **** your impatience and cost you the game.

I also feel like you can edge guard better. when peach gets back on you always retreat again back to the stage and reset instead of fighting to keep the control.
 

SolarSkurge

Smash Journeyman
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May 31, 2011
Messages
340
Location
Paducah KY, Southern IL
Hmm. I can't help but notice you threw a few grenades with no cooking at absolutely nothing in the first match. And you could've just dropped through the platform when Will had that charged Dsmash ready. Second match was better though.
 

jbandrew

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
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Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZZ426FZJ1U&feature=channel_video_title

Me vs will. can I get this critiqued? things I was doing wrong? right?
Goof stuff dude!! You did so goood. See that the soft grenade is sooo good vs DK?! :D haha.

You did most of the camping right, just minor slip ups when he came back invincible like the first stock from the first match >_<. If you wanna be safe against someone when they come back jst take out a grenade when you think they're gonna come back and jst sheild drop it. Then double jump FFAD into the grenades blast zone and sheild. By this time the grenade should be about to explode and will serve as a wall so they can't jst rush you with their invincibility :). I don't really know what you did wrong lol, NOW DO THIS IN TOURNAMENT!! :D
 

SolarSkurge

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Messages
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Watched the first match. You were in the air way too much, and never EVER use fair as an approach. And when playing Marth you need a nade in hand at all times, and powershield the heck out of him. Use ALL of your explosives, your pressure game needs some serious work, much like mine.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
You hit down on the analog.

No, really, you hit down, then you let go of the analog stick. That's it. I don't know why people choose the options that give the possibility of being punished if they mess up.
 

jbandrew

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTKKECewPJw&feature=related&t=3m26s

Critique this game please. I didn't really know what i was doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOocM7p1CJg

Vs Ice climbers. I think i need to either learn how to abuse snakes physical aspects or just stick to walling out w/nades. Cuz g2 i did that and did much better.
Still need a bunch of work in this mu.
VS IC's: Well... okay well.

1. Wall IC's out with nades and Upsmash. If you take out a nade and upsmash they can't rush in to punish you cuz usmash will interrupt them. Then just mix things up from there.

2. ICs usually run @ Snake when they see an opening. Don't get trapped between your grenades and PIVOT grab.

3. Basically just do everything you can in your power to make a wall so that IC's can't get in, including nades, upsmash, uptilt, pivot grab and ftilt if you get a read or think they won't sheild grab. DACUS is great for running away, and is usually even better with a grenade in hand so it can cover you when they try to grab. That's pretty much it. I'm sad my MM vs Vinnie didn't get recorded but if I ever play him or an IC's in tournament again I'll try to get it recorded so I can upload for you to watch.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Messages
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Apopka Florida
VS IC's: Well... okay well.

1. Wall IC's out with nades and Upsmash. If you take out a nade and upsmash they can't rush in to punish you cuz usmash will interrupt them. Then just mix things up from there.

2. ICs usually run @ Snake when they see an opening. Don't get trapped between your grenades and PIVOT grab.

3. Basically just do everything you can in your power to make a wall so that IC's can't get in, including nades, upsmash, uptilt, pivot grab and ftilt if you get a read or think they won't sheild grab. DACUS is great for running away, and is usually even better with a grenade in hand so it can cover you when they try to grab. That's pretty much it. I'm sad my MM vs Vinnie didn't get recorded but if I ever play him or an IC's in tournament again I'll try to get it recorded so I can upload for you to watch.
Hmmm ok. I'll try a more fortress approach from the get-go next time.
Thanks Jband.

Anyone else got advice? The other match?
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Jan 30, 2010
Messages
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Location
Apopka Florida
GDX vs Kuro

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/TBtSfxYeb8M 1

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/qjgabiihUyY 2

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/a/u/2/xR9--a5Pxx8 3

Mampam vs Kuro

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/u/3/Faf_uaFOe14 1

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/u/4/FbhFjW_HShI 2

http://www.youtube.com/user/Calvo819?feature=mhee#p/u/5/JZZiQ3G8Vmw 3

K so i'm slowly starting to learn what to do in certain situations and developing it to fit me but i really really would like critique on this. Cuz i'm bad vs diddy w/snake(or still learning i should say).

Infern Angelis

Shmot

False

Advice on what to do in neutral situations?How to earn the advantage and keep it? How to halt diddy's momentum? Ways to stall him from gaining it? Ways to press my advantage? Traps?

Thanks in advance.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Coolies. i'll just do some dot points.

in the situation in the first match, where you got spiked and were still alive (no c4), flying your cypher into diddy's barrels is usually the best option; he'll die too. it's actually a perfectly legit gimping method. also, snake uair will ALWAYS beat his dair.

too much holding of jab. jabs should always be cancelled. the second hit of jab is terrible, and everyone gets out of it. spaced jab beats most of diddy's cqc options soundly, and will often force a roll (react, ftilt/grab) or set up to grab (if the jab was spaced well).

if diddy is running at you with a single banana, you know he has two options; throw or shield. this means you can play a guessing game; dash attack beats banana throw (catches it) or dash grab (beats shield). predict right (they very rarely shield anyway) and then you can get a punish.

MOAR NADES. we can camp him. approaching is generally a bad idea, unless you're either way better than him, or he's in the air/offstage. camp, force the approach, and react. nades also limit his nana throwing and dash attack capacity pretty considerably, which is pretty damn useful. just make sure you're doing this from a distance; once he's inside your zone, you have to get him out with cqc.

also, while camping, force him in the air with soft throws, then aim your nades at him; if he throws the nana, the nade should blow it up, hurting him. this is a good way to camp in general.

in general, your punish of choice should be pivot grab/grab. diddy is extremely safe in shield, and hitting it should mean you get punished. so grab more. he's hard to tech chase, since his forward roll is long, and his spotdodge is broken, but it can pay off if you predict right. also, if he's staying on the ground, move back a little then ftilt1, regrab. if you ftilt1 without moving back, you'll hit him away, and only benefited 7% from the tech chase. forwards rolls should be punished with a dash attack on reaction, otherwise you need to predict. pivot ftilt can punish back rolls on reaction. get up is probably the hardest for me; lucky my brother always spotdodges immediately afterwards.

also, diddy's spotdodge/rolls and airdodge to ground are stupid. you have to be really precise with your punishes, else you're gonna get juggled. grabs give you heaps more leighway than tilts, since they cover a much longer time period. jab cancel ftilt is still my favourite way to punish roll behind, however. his airdodge to ground normally goes under jab, and banana never hits him in landing (i dont know why, but he will ps it 100% of the time), so dash attack and pivot grab are the only real options.

edge pressure. you're letting him on too easily. utilt beats all options except nana, and nades force him from the ledge. while he should be recovering most of the time, you should be able to deal some damage and force him off again a few times. mortar can be good when recovering, force him to airdodge with an utilt or grabbing the ledge, and the mortar may hit him out of his barrels. **** when it happens.

if he's knocking you about offstage, save you're jump until you've got space, or until you see a spike coming. you really shouldn't be getting gimped like this. jump back and cypher straight up is often good, or even just jump airdodge. moving back and fairing can also work brilliantly, although its pretty risky.

when diddy has the momentum, you really need to step up your defence. get to ground asap, normally through the use of wavebounces and airdodge, and the occasional bair (the angle diagonally above diddy is good here, cause you're almost guaranteed to trade). once you're grounded, reverse nade, and intentionally ps nanas, cause the nade will blow up in his face. either that, drop the nade, roll back, then return to your camping game. defence is everything. if the game is going to fast, you're probably using.

when a nana is nearby, dont ftilt. snake's feet move really wide, and you slip from a distance. grabbing and utilting is way better.

also, you must live forever. recovering can be hard, but i normally (after momentum cancelling), lob a nade towards the edge of the stage, cypher, and try to land just after the nade blows up. its pretty solid in most mus. otherwise, use wavebounces to avoid diddy and his bananas. in your matches, the diddys weren't edgeguarding properly, if they throw both nanas up and then try to juggle, it makes life really difficult. catch things with bair and mix up your wavebounces. but even then, if the diddy is doing things right, you will probably have a hard time. at least you should deal some residual damage while recovering with your nades. di everything up, since all his attacks kill sideways, and you may sdi out of fsmash. i have sdi-ed out of it and punished with uair/bair many a time.

against sh fair, crouch is incredible. you stand up into a ps, and can punish with a grab/utilt (not ftilt1, he gets hit away). either that or dash attack on normal shield. most diddy's spam this if you're holding a nana, since they'll catch it. if he lands with fair, wait a second, then punish with ftilt. he goes under your grab/jab, and an immediate ftilt1 will hit him away.

when you hit him up, dont let him come down. dash attack is **** for keeping him off the ground, since he can't hit you on that angle, and it covers the airdodge also. watch for the sideB and double jump, then you know he's pretty defenceless. pivot grab covers his landings also. if he lands after z-dropping, uair him from the side or utilt.

defend non banana approaches with pivot grab, rather than tilts. diddy's running shield is ridiculous, and he doesn't slide back at all. grabbing in general is a better punish anyway.

stages... i dislike halberd (too small, nades dont stop ground approaches) and sv (too freakin small). i like cs, since you can camp well, and his nana game is skewed, and fd isn't so bad, since nades stop ground approaches well, and you've got plenty of space to avoid the nanas. lylat is always a winner; his sideB doesnt cancel and he cant nana approach when the stage is tilted upwards. ps1 is always great for us too.

play defence, be perfect with the timing of your punished, and di like a boss and you can win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNRK25gW9o
wish i had more recent videos, but this is about it.

that's about it for now, i have a lecture lol.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Coolies. i'll just do some dot points.

in the situation in the first match, where you got spiked and were still alive (no c4), flying your cypher into diddy's barrels is usually the best option; he'll die too. it's actually a perfectly legit gimping method. also, snake uair will ALWAYS beat his dair.

too much holding of jab. jabs should always be cancelled. the second hit of jab is terrible, and everyone gets out of it. spaced jab beats most of diddy's cqc options soundly, and will often force a roll (react, ftilt/grab) or set up to grab (if the jab was spaced well).

if diddy is running at you with a single banana, you know he has two options; throw or shield. this means you can play a guessing game; dash attack beats banana throw (catches it) or dash grab (beats shield). predict right (they very rarely shield anyway) and then you can get a punish.

MOAR NADES. we can camp him. approaching is generally a bad idea, unless you're either way better than him, or he's in the air/offstage. camp, force the approach, and react. nades also limit his nana throwing and dash attack capacity pretty considerably, which is pretty damn useful. just make sure you're doing this from a distance; once he's inside your zone, you have to get him out with cqc.

also, while camping, force him in the air with soft throws, then aim your nades at him; if he throws the nana, the nade should blow it up, hurting him. this is a good way to camp in general.

in general, your punish of choice should be pivot grab/grab. diddy is extremely safe in shield, and hitting it should mean you get punished. so grab more. he's hard to tech chase, since his forward roll is long, and his spotdodge is broken, but it can pay off if you predict right. also, if he's staying on the ground, move back a little then ftilt1, regrab. if you ftilt1 without moving back, you'll hit him away, and only benefited 7% from the tech chase. forwards rolls should be punished with a dash attack on reaction, otherwise you need to predict. pivot ftilt can punish back rolls on reaction. get up is probably the hardest for me; lucky my brother always spotdodges immediately afterwards.

also, diddy's spotdodge/rolls and airdodge to ground are stupid. you have to be really precise with your punishes, else you're gonna get juggled. grabs give you heaps more leighway than tilts, since they cover a much longer time period. jab cancel ftilt is still my favourite way to punish roll behind, however. his airdodge to ground normally goes under jab, and banana never hits him in landing (i dont know why, but he will ps it 100% of the time), so dash attack and pivot grab are the only real options.

edge pressure. you're letting him on too easily. utilt beats all options except nana, and nades force him from the ledge. while he should be recovering most of the time, you should be able to deal some damage and force him off again a few times. mortar can be good when recovering, force him to airdodge with an utilt or grabbing the ledge, and the mortar may hit him out of his barrels. **** when it happens.

if he's knocking you about offstage, save you're jump until you've got space, or until you see a spike coming. you really shouldn't be getting gimped like this. jump back and cypher straight up is often good, or even just jump airdodge. moving back and fairing can also work brilliantly, although its pretty risky.

when diddy has the momentum, you really need to step up your defence. get to ground asap, normally through the use of wavebounces and airdodge, and the occasional bair (the angle diagonally above diddy is good here, cause you're almost guaranteed to trade). once you're grounded, reverse nade, and intentionally ps nanas, cause the nade will blow up in his face. either that, drop the nade, roll back, then return to your camping game. defence is everything. if the game is going to fast, you're probably using.

when a nana is nearby, dont ftilt. snake's feet move really wide, and you slip from a distance. grabbing and utilting is way better.

also, you must live forever. recovering can be hard, but i normally (after momentum cancelling), lob a nade towards the edge of the stage, cypher, and try to land just after the nade blows up. its pretty solid in most mus. otherwise, use wavebounces to avoid diddy and his bananas. in your matches, the diddys weren't edgeguarding properly, if they throw both nanas up and then try to juggle, it makes life really difficult. catch things with bair and mix up your wavebounces. but even then, if the diddy is doing things right, you will probably have a hard time. at least you should deal some residual damage while recovering with your nades. di everything up, since all his attacks kill sideways, and you may sdi out of fsmash. i have sdi-ed out of it and punished with uair/bair many a time.

against sh fair, crouch is incredible. you stand up into a ps, and can punish with a grab/utilt (not ftilt1, he gets hit away). either that or dash attack on normal shield. most diddy's spam this if you're holding a nana, since they'll catch it. if he lands with fair, wait a second, then punish with ftilt. he goes under your grab/jab, and an immediate ftilt1 will hit him away.

when you hit him up, dont let him come down. dash attack is **** for keeping him off the ground, since he can't hit you on that angle, and it covers the airdodge also. watch for the sideB and double jump, then you know he's pretty defenceless. pivot grab covers his landings also. if he lands after z-dropping, uair him from the side or utilt.

defend non banana approaches with pivot grab, rather than tilts. diddy's running shield is ridiculous, and he doesn't slide back at all. grabbing in general is a better punish anyway.

stages... i dislike halberd (too small, nades dont stop ground approaches) and sv (too freakin small). i like cs, since you can camp well, and his nana game is skewed, and fd isn't so bad, since nades stop ground approaches well, and you've got plenty of space to avoid the nanas. lylat is always a winner; his sideB doesnt cancel and he cant nana approach when the stage is tilted upwards. ps1 is always great for us too.

play defence, be perfect with the timing of your punished, and di like a boss and you can win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNRK25gW9o
wish i had more recent videos, but this is about it.

that's about it for now, i have a lecture lol.
Legit post is legit :)

Btw, which way do u sdi fsmash? I've been trying straight up but it doesn't seem to work. Do i SDI up and opposite?
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Melbourne, Australia
Up and towards. The hitbox is behind him also, although it tips up diagonally away from him, so it's easiest to Sdi up close.

Still hard though.

:phone:
 

False

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
1,151
Location
Heaven's Arena, Republic of Padokea
NNID
Falsified
if diddy is running at you with a single banana, you know he has two options; throw or shield. this means you can play a guessing game; dash attack beats banana throw (catches it) or dash grab (beats shield). predict right (they very rarely shield anyway) and then you can get a punish.
can't they condition you to shield and run up to you and diddy hump? -_- diddy has 3 options I'm pretty sure. throw, shield, or diddy hump.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Diddy hump does have 29 frames startup though...

Also if you're conditioned that way, you might struggle to react.

It's an outrageously good move, and most of the time, you won't be able to punish. Jab beats the grab, but the only thing to beat the kick is spaced utilt. For sone reason, it's ridiculously hard to pivot grab.

:phone:
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
most characters arent tall enough to really be troubled by it, and most (high tiers) have fast oos disjoined aerials to counter it with. we're forced to stay grounded, we're too tall, and our shield is terrible.

for some reason, i've never managed to pivot grab diddy's dash attack. really can't work out why, but it always (i mean, every time) beats the pivot grab.
 
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