• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Koga

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
352
I like to win.



Hopefully. :)
I know you already know this but i'm gonna say it anyway:

Sometimes you have to loose alot before you can win. Sometimes you have to lose a whole freaking lot before you win.

MK Metagame is simpler and more developed than the rest of the cast, so go help the rest of the cast catchup, but no instead the community would rather just play MK and win Now. Instant gratification runs rampant i guess.

just remember we get out of this game what we put into it and if we ban something just because we have to put some time into figuring it out. we'll soon ban more characters than we wanted, not all of them, but far more than just MK
 

brinboy789

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
2,684
Location
Suffolk, Long Island, NY
just like playing any character besides MK (and snake to a lesser degree) in a tourney setting
snake actually has it worse then some characters. like 70% of MK's matchups are 60/40. 4 of the mare neutral, and 30% of them (lowtierlol) are like 80/20. i think ganon is 90:10 lol. but then again its ganon
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
People assume 80/20low tier character getting boned.

This is not always true.
There are many cases in which a character is 80/20 even thought hey are high tier.

Again its not 80/20 caxuse the character is low tier.
Its 80/20 because that character takes advantage of the other characters weaknesses very well.

Much like Baiken vs Potemkin.
 

brinboy789

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
2,684
Location
Suffolk, Long Island, NY
People assume 80/20low tier character getting boned.

This is not always true.
There are many cases in which a character is 80/20 even thought hey are high tier.

Again its not 80/20 caxuse the character is low tier.
Its 80/20 because that character takes advantage of the other characters weaknesses very well.

Much like Baiken vs Potemkin.
example please
oh and also...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197931
new AT discovered. freakin wario can CG MK up to 190%. wtf? not sure if this works but...
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
People assume 80/20low tier character getting boned.

This is not always true.
There are many cases in which a character is 80/20 even thought hey are high tier.

Again its not 80/20 caxuse the character is low tier.
Its 80/20 because that character takes advantage of the other characters weaknesses very well.

Much like Baiken vs Potemkin.
QFT There are high tier characters who have 20:80 match-up's...like DK or Wolf
 

The Real Inferno

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
5,506
Location
Wichita, KS
I was asked recently about my opinions as a TO on the banning of Metaknight. To be honest, I don't -want- to ban him. It feels ******** if I had to do so. On the otherhand, I seriously don't like what he does to this game. He's just...bad for Brawl. We have an overcentralized metagame where some of us non-Meta Mainers have to spend all of our time devoting to finding ways to pick at MK's weaknesses, only to then discover that Meta has a counter to that counter after the first time you surprise him with it, putting you right back at square one. Honestly, sometimes I stop and realize there are matchups in the game I don't even get to practice because if I let off on Metaknight, I'll get sloppy with him. Matches against mainers of the character are that intense.
 

brinboy789

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
2,684
Location
Suffolk, Long Island, NY
I was asked recently about my opinions as a TO on the banning of Metaknight. To be honest, I don't -want- to ban him. It feels ******** if I had to do so. On the otherhand, I seriously don't like what he does to this game. He's just...bad for Brawl. We have an overcentralized metagame where some of us non-Meta Mainers have to spend all of our time devoting to finding ways to pick at MK's weaknesses, only to then discover that Meta has a counter to that counter after the first time you surprise him with it, putting you right back at square one. Honestly, sometimes I stop and realize there are matchups in the game I don't even get to practice because if I let off on Metaknight, I'll get sloppy with him. Matches against mainers of the character are that intense.
WARIO can CG MK. how screwed up is that
 

The Real Inferno

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
5,506
Location
Wichita, KS
I know you already know this but i'm gonna say it anyway:

Sometimes you have to loose alot before you can win. Sometimes you have to lose a whole freaking lot before you win.

MK Metagame is simpler and more developed than the rest of the cast, so go help the rest of the cast catchup, but no instead the community would rather just play MK and win Now. Instant gratification runs rampant i guess.

just remember we get out of this game what we put into it and if we ban something just because we have to put some time into figuring it out. we'll soon ban more characters than we wanted, not all of them, but far more than just MK
you do realize that the "vs Metaknight" matchup is the most well known matchup of just about every character main out there? Why? Because it's so common, every has to know it. Fleshing out the rest of the other characters metagames will not help them beat metaknight. It will just help them beat other characters they won't be as likely to see as Metaknight.
 

MorphedChaos

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
1,231
Location
CT / United States
The Wario CG is not all that you think it is, I've been practicing it, and its really hard, about as hard or maybe harder then infiniting wolf as D3 using a button instead of a Cstick. And I'm not sure if it works either, I've had a few MK's get out of it already.

So UNTIL its true, don't make accusations defending MK, as it could very well be false.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
WARIO can CG MK. how screwed up is that
I think we are still waiting to confirm this. Haven't heard from Reflex or anyone else, and I can't test it personally cause I don't have a competent testing partner.
 

Sephiroth27

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
735
Location
Janesville, Wisconsin
Recently I set up a Brawl tournament that had free housing, food/drinks, and a beautiful venue that could easily host 200+ people. I decided that this time around I would ban Metaknight. No one came.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Recently I set up a Brawl tournament that had free housing, food/drinks, and a beautiful venue that could easily host 200+ people. I decided that this time around I would ban Metaknight. No one came.
Never heard about it.
 

Geist

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
4,893
Location
Menswear section
really?

...really?

even if he only 60-40s everyone, if that is significant enough margin so that everyone picks MK and tourneys are reduced to all MK dittos (which is just about where we are now.)than its enough to ban him. and if the majority of people were playing ROB, D3 or falco, than they would still be getting beat by the small number of people play MK, thats why hes the best...
hes unmatched now!
well with that logic you might as well continue with saying as soon as meta is banned people will auto-bandwagon to snake, and then he'll get banned. Vicious circle ensues.

Even if he 60:40s everyone, that doesn't mean everyone will automatically pursue him. I've seen alot of people drop MK because he's overused already. Many will stay with him, but alot of people play other characters for other reasons. At that margin, skill still comes largely into place, and people will play other characters.
 

fallenangemon0

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
430
Location
El Paso
Recently I set up a Brawl tournament that had free housing, food/drinks, and a beautiful venue that could easily host 200+ people. I decided that this time around I would ban Metaknight. No one came.
I came.






... but seriously, you should have advertised better. A tourney of that magnitude = pure win.
 

Koga

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
352
you do realize that the "vs Metaknight" matchup is the most well known matchup of just about every character main out there? Why? Because it's so common, every has to know it. Fleshing out the rest of the other characters metagames will not help them beat metaknight. It will just help them beat other characters they won't be as likely to see as Metaknight.
Being the most well known doesn't mean its executed to the highest level.

and i mean fleshing out their matchup with MK

unless you think that we know all we'll ever know and are as good as we'll ever get. ever.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
well with that logic you might as well continue with saying as soon as meta is banned people will auto-bandwagon to snake, and then he'll get banned. Vicious circle ensues.
Because Snake 60:40's everyone?

Maybe not.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
Should mK be banned? No.

But all Metaknight mains should be forced to wear a Scarlett Whorenado on their chest so the rest of civilization knows EXACTLY WHO THEY ARE. >= <
 

Sephiroth27

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
735
Location
Janesville, Wisconsin
lol, I was just kidding. I was sooo not expecting that post to be taken seriously.

As for my thoughts on banning Metaknight, yeah, I think he should be. A character that excels in every aspect of the game and has no bad matchups is the exact reason why you would ban a character.

I'm going to go check how similar my thoughts are to the other posters in this thread.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
But all Metaknight mains should be forced to wear a Scarlett Whorenado on their chest so the rest of civilization knows EXACTLY WHO THEY ARE. >= <
I agree with this statement

I'm am unaware of what the situation was back in Melee when Sheik was considered god of the game (until all those discoveries). I've joined in late and I apologise for my lack of knowledge but was Sheik ever considered ban worthy in the Melee period?

I don't attend tourneys. I might as well admit it now even if I do get flamed. But looking at things from my point of view, what does banning MK achieve? So we get rid of a character who is considered superior to pretty much all other characters but surely this is avoiding the issue of the MK problem. I understand the whole 'it's like a virus' problem but ignoring it and simply banning him could potentially result in

A) Another character rises up and then is questionable of a ban (mentioned before)
B) If he's banned, is there any point in trying to find ways to counter him?

Regarding B), would the ban be permanant? Are bans permanant in the majority of competetive fighting games?
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
between fox, falco shiek and marth at the highest playable levels in melee, there is no match that is more than 45-55 in anybodys favor. its played at such a high level that you would have to call marth/shiek 47-53 in shieks favor
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
You... you... Republican!
Why thank you, excuse me while I go seal clubbing.


I don't think banning Metaknight would result in other characters getting banned at all. The next "best" character (Snake) has bad matchups. Metaknight doesn't.
With the changed Metagame, he won't be the next best character, Marth, with no counters, will be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom