The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Inui]

So lets ban stages that actually do hinder him from most characters, but keep stages like Frigate Orpheon and Rainbow Cruise that pretty much makes him accelerate his dominance tenfold!

Gee, no wonder he's broken, your banning his vulnerabilities!

Tons of characters are good on Frigate Orpheon and Rainbow Cruise. Game and Watch, Dedede, and Kirby are three of them.

Nah. Meta Knight actually sucks on Halberd if you ban excessive stalling. He dies very early from ceiling KOs. Snake destroys him there. In fact, I wrecked Shadow there really badly with Snake and he's one of the best Meta Knights in my region. Meta Knight also isn't that great on Final Destination or Yoshi's Island. Those are his worth neutrals for many reasons. Final Destination is huge, so he has trouble killing from the side until high damage. He also loses his amazing platform control and is more vulnerable to projectile spam. It's harder for him to gimp on Yoshi's Island because of the random appearing things off the ledge and it's basically the only stage he can't just go under.

 

[Master Raven]

I actually do like to CP Halberd against Metas. They can also SD during the moving platform section if they mess up on a shuttle loop.

 

[Mmac]

Tons of characters are good on Frigate Orpheon and Rainbow Cruise. Game and Watch, Dedede, and Kirby are two of them.

Nah. Meta Knight actually sucks on Halberd if you ban excessive stalling. He dies very early from ceiling KOs. Snake destroys him there. In fact, I wrecked Shadow there really badly with Snake and he's one of the best Meta Knights in my region. Meta Knight also isn't that great on Final Destination or Yoshi's Island. Those are his worth neutrals for many reasons. Final Destination is huge, so he has trouble killing from the side until high damage. He also loses his amazing platform control and is more vulnerable to projectile spam. It's harder for him to gimp on Yoshi's Island because of the random appearing things off the ledge and it's basically the only stage he can't just go under.

True, but those stages are "Fair" and only a minor convince (Maybe not Halberd, but can't he play the Non Solid Stage to his advantage?). YI Melee and Corneria are universal Stages anyone can use against MetaKnight, and the sole reasons why they're not banned from the ruleset. Ask any MetaKnight and they'll tell you that one of those two are their worst stages that isn't banned.

It's also one of the main reasons why Yoshi does so well against MetaKnight because he's the only character with heavy stage counterpicks against him. He completely demolishes him on YI Melee, and has Castle Siege/Corneria to back it up if it gets banned.

Why should those stages be banned anyways? They're counterpicks so how is it hurting anyone.... except MetaKnight

 

[Inui]

Snake destroys Meta Knight if you ban Planking, btw.

Sesshomaru010101 (1:07:57 AM): i think fox/falco in melee are better than MK is in brawl.
RedAxelRanger (1:08:52 AM): yup
RedAxelRanger (1:09:03 AM): Meta loses to Snake
RedAxelRanger (1:09:27 AM): and has to deal with grab release shenanigans on FD
RedAxelRanger (1:09:37 AM): Fox and Falco can do stuff on FD
Sesshomaru010101 (1:09:50 AM): dude
Sesshomaru010101 (1:09:53 AM): there's a huuuuuuge arguement
Sesshomaru010101 (1:09:55 AM): to ban MK
RedAxelRanger (1:09:57 AM): LMAO
RedAxelRanger (1:09:58 AM): i know
Sesshomaru010101 (1:09:59 AM): and they are winning the poll
RedAxelRanger (1:10:02 AM): stupid idiots
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:04 AM): 640 to like 400
RedAxelRanger (1:10:09 AM): i thought meta was winning
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:10 AM): you should help me and jason
RedAxelRanger (1:10:11 AM): in SBR
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:13 AM): keep MK alive
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:17 AM): there's a huge public thing
RedAxelRanger (1:10:17 AM): i'm not wasting my time
RedAxelRanger (1:10:19 AM): since im not going OOS
RedAxelRanger (1:10:24 AM): and you're going to hold brawl with Meta
RedAxelRanger (1:10:34 AM): if i go OOS its going to be to like PA
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:39 AM): dude most ppl say Meta beats snake and ***** every other char including falco
RedAxelRanger (1:10:43 AM): LMAO
RedAxelRanger (1:10:48 AM): CLEARLY
RedAxelRanger (1:10:54 AM): meta doesn't kill snake at like
RedAxelRanger (1:10:57 AM): 150+%
Sesshomaru010101 (1:10:58 AM): come on
RedAxelRanger (1:11:04 AM): and he CLEARLY
Sesshomaru010101 (1:11:07 AM): dude
Sesshomaru010101 (1:11:12 AM): yesterday i played dave in a meta ditto
Sesshomaru010101 (1:11:13 AM): almost lost
RedAxelRanger (1:11:15 AM): doesn't take massive damage so fast
Sesshomaru010101 (1:11:17 AM): then i threestocked him with snake
RedAxelRanger (1:11:27 AM): funny story
RedAxelRanger (1:11:33 AM): me vs eazy my snake vs his meta on FD
Sesshomaru010101 (1:11:34 AM): snake DESTROYS meta knight if you just camp
RedAxelRanger (1:11:40 AM): he wanted to roll past me
RedAxelRanger (1:11:42 AM): at 75
RedAxelRanger (1:11:55 AM): all the way
RedAxelRanger (1:11:58 AM): on the right side of the stage
RedAxelRanger (1:12:01 AM): after getting up from the ledge
RedAxelRanger (1:12:03 AM): so he rolled
RedAxelRanger (1:12:09 AM): i daired him, he went to the LEFT SIDE OF THE STAGE
RedAxelRanger (1:12:11 AM): it hit him to ~100
RedAxelRanger (1:12:12 AM): and he died
Sesshomaru010101 (1:12:26 AM): meta beats snake tho
RedAxelRanger (1:12:28 AM): from ALL THE WAY ON THE RIGHT of FD to ALL THE WAY to the left
RedAxelRanger (1:12:31 AM): lmao
RedAxelRanger (1:12:32 AM): no he doesn't
Sesshomaru010101 (1:12:36 AM): LOL
Sesshomaru010101 (1:12:37 AM): obviously
Sesshomaru010101 (1:12:41 AM): i think it's 6/4 snake
RedAxelRanger (1:12:43 AM): yup
RedAxelRanger (1:12:46 AM): thats what it is
Sesshomaru010101 (1:12:55 AM): snake can just drop grenades
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:01 AM): and meta has to stand there like "uh..."
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:05 AM): cuz he cant move in
RedAxelRanger (1:13:06 AM): maybe SLIGHTLY worse if snake = firework expert
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:17 AM): that's how i threestocked dave
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:22 AM): i just dropped grenades
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:24 AM): held my shield
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:26 AM): rolled away sometimes
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:29 AM): did f-tilt
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:33 AM): u-tilted at high
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:35 AM): damage
RedAxelRanger (1:13:36 AM): :[ u are boring
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:38 AM): it's so simple
RedAxelRanger (1:13:39 AM): u have to make the whole stage
RedAxelRanger (1:13:41 AM): explode
RedAxelRanger (1:13:42 AM): all the time
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:43 AM): yeah
RedAxelRanger (1:13:47 AM): 2 grenades
RedAxelRanger (1:13:48 AM): is NOT ENOUGH
Sesshomaru010101 (1:13:50 AM): i dropped nades and cf and laid mines
RedAxelRanger (1:13:52 AM): it must BURN
RedAxelRanger (1:13:54 AM): it must BURN
RedAxelRanger (1:13:58 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:13:58 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:13:59 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:13:59 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:14:00 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:14:01 AM): boom
RedAxelRanger (1:14:01 AM): boom
Sesshomaru010101 (1:14:03 AM): i almost threestocked shadow in tourny at halberd LOL

Camping with Snake > Meta Knight.

Why should those stages be banned anyways?

You need this explained with all of those infinites and CGs that are instant death on walk-off and wall stages? Wtf...

 

[Mmac]

You need this explained with all of those infinites and CGs that are instant death on walk-off and wall stages? Wtf...

You mean the ones that MetaKnight CAN'T do? Plus Yoshi is the only character that can CG up the Hill on YI Melee anyways.

Plus isn't your Region have Infinites banned anyways?

 

[BentoBox]

Irrefutable evidence you got there sir.

 

[Boolossus]

Planking, lol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Which Tri-state area do you live in?

Results pages plx.

Results pages wouldn't have the data...

Really that's the textbook definition of a disadvantagious match-up, and when it goes past 60-40, the skill differential required to win is quite significant. This is a 65-35 match, so he SHOULD be having issues with MKs, even if they are significantly worse players.


I'll simply point out that this isn't just my observation, I'm far from the only person who has noticed this point (and this came up prior to the MK ban furor). Check the Marth boards discussion for MK, when it's rediscussed, this is noted.

Back when I mained Marth, I defeated dmbrandon twice and teh_spamerer once(and always took matches in other sets) in Marth vs Meta Knight, and both players not only used Meta Knight but were also superior players at the time. I won anyways.

It happens, but it's still a 65-35 match-up, MK's advantage.

Then Sethlon sucks against Meta Knight.

Lol, Falco is at a significant disadvantage to MK. He does well against scrub MKs, but those who space well destroy him.

-Falco can CG combo him to ~60%,

Falco's grab range sucks... Basically all that succeeds in doing is keeping MK out of extreme close range... why would MK ever take that spacing again?

You can't force him into that spacing either, because he's got the tools to keep you out due to his superior range and poking ability, and the fact that anything you do beyond that range is highly punishable. Even moving forward makes you vulnerable.

Sure, you'll get it occassionally due to mindgames... but it's totally unreliable, once per match, maybe. If the chaingrab meant anything in this match-up, ICs would dominate the entire cast.

-Lasers force Meta Knight to approach and they beat the tornado.

Being forced to approach doesn't matter if you have safe poking moves far outside your opponent's safe range.

MK has plenty of options beyond tornado.

-Falco's u-smash kills Meta Knight at ~105% with good DI, and f-smash kills even earlier and beats the tornado and most of Meta Knight's moves.

Both of which are highly punishable, and Falco has no reliable set-ups for it. Basically, MK shouldn't be using tornado as an approach, he has plenty of other options.

-If Meta Knight hogs the edge when Falco recovers, Falco can f-b on the stage and be safe. Meta Knight's only real way of punishing Falco's recovery is the tornado, which won't send Falco back off the stage.

Edgehogging isn't MK's thing in most match-ups. He'll rushdown in the air.

I can only assume that Sethlon didn't camp enough.

I can only assume that you never studied the match-up well. It's basically the Marth vs. Falco match-up, MK wins it for pretty much the same reasons.

Theres not gonna be some magical discovery in brawl that changes the metagame...that is all...

Happens all the time in competitive games.

Camping with Snake > Meta Knight.

Lol, what exactly does Snake have on MK that makes him the winner in this match-up. This was brought up earlier and refuted with frame data and MK's hax dtilt, have you discovered something that changes this?

 

[choknater]

i liked that convo between spamerer and inui

 

[Inui]

Atlantic North has the strongest players in the country, and most likely the world. If you don't agree with this, you're an idiot. It's safe to say that our Meta Knights are the best and very few outside of our region can compare.

Mew2King is the best player in the world and mains Meta Knight, but he'd be the best player regardless of what S tier character he mained.

Myself, InfernoOmni, Plank, Shadow, Jman, teh_spamerer, and dmbrandon are the top Meta Knights in Atlantic North not including the extremely far north places. We don't get to win everything not just because of Mew2King, but because of many other players.

-Atomsk has beaten Forte's Meta Knight in three money matches with Dedede.
-Atomsk has beaten InfernoOmni in tourny 2-0 with Dedede.
-Seibrik came here from Florida and outplaced every Meta Knight at CH4 with Dedede besides Mew2King.
-I watched Azen's Lucario destroy Plank's Meta Knight, but Azen lost the Meta Knight ditto in the set.
-I saw Mew2King's Snake make Chillin's Meta Knight look like a complete joke in a tournament set.
-I've beaten teh_spamerer in tourny with Marth.
-I've beaten dmbrandon in tourny with Marth.
-I beat Shadow in tourny with Snake.
-Snakeee threestocked my Meta Knight, the same one that beat Bum, in a tournament match.
-Azen's Lucario has beaten Forte, InfernoOmni, and Plank multiple times.
-NEO has beaten Forte and Plank with Marth.
-Bum beats Shadow with DK.
-Bum beat my Meta Knight in our first set with DK.
-Yes!'s Snake has beaten dmbrandon multiple times.
-Keitaro beat dmbrandon's Meta Knight with Falco multiple times.
-Atomsk randomly went Snake against dmbrandon in tourny and beat him 2-0.
-Mew2King's Dedede and Marth both have beaten multiple top Meta Knights in my region.
-NinjaLink 2-0'd Mew2King at ESTICLE with Diddy.
-NinjaLink beats Shadow with Diddy.
-Velocity beat dmbrandon's Meta Knight before with Game and Watch.
-D1 destroyed NinjaLink with Falco even when he switched to Meta Knight.
-Every time NinjaLink went Meta Knight, I've seen him get *****, yet his other characters are all amazing.
-Atomsk beat Jman's Meta Knight with Dedede in losers finals of a tournament.
-Atomsk always beats Shadow.
-BlackWaltz's Olimar makes every Meta Knight that isn't top look like garbage.
-Ryoko beat dmbrandon's Meta Knight with Zelda/Sheik.
-Blackanese beat dmbrandon's Meta Knight with Ice Climbers.

In my region alone, we have so many players that can beat Meta Knight with a lot of different characters. We have the best Meta Knights.

We can do it, and so can you!

Lol, what exactly does Snake have on MK that makes him the winner in this match-up. This was brought up earlier and refuted with frame data and MK's hax dtilt, have you discovered something that changes this?

-Meta Knight can't get near Snake if you turn the stage into a minefield and make fireworks all day.
-Meta Knight dies at very low damage while Snake lives forever.
-Having faster moves =/= instant win. I don't know why you'd think that.
-Meta Knight's d-tilt loses to the second hit of Snake's f-tilt and if Snake drops grenades they will blow Meta Knight up if he d-tilts.

teh_spamerer can go into muuuuch more detail and explain it much better.

RedAxelRanger (1:47:51 AM): lvl 3 CPU Snake set to Stop from Center of FD dies @ these %s(it DIs, not sure how much)
fsmash - 127%
dsmash back hit - 130%
nair - 145%
dsmash front hit - 147%
glide attack - 148%
uptilt ~ 150%
ground shuttle loop - 162%
back air - 176%
tipper dair - 182%
air shuttle loop - 185%(super broken move :D)
dimensional cape attack - 187%
upthrow - 199%
center hit dair - 221%
fair - 237%

RedAxelRanger (1:48:26 AM): lvl 3 Meta in same conditions in training mode dies at these %s against Snake
fsmash - 50%
c4 - 82%
dair all hits - 83%
uptilt - 91%
upair - 97%
bair - 100%
upsmash both hits - 103%
dsmash - 105%
nair all hits ~ 109%
dtilt - 119%
ftilt both hits - 119%
ftilt second hit only - 127%
dash attack - 144%

 

[Natch]

Inui, ever since you ignored the rebuttal of the post you entered this topic with, I am skipping your posts.

Guys, may as well just ignore him. He's basically Brinboy with half a brain(which is a plus) and better grammar.

 

[Vyse]

Divide America's regions by Metaknight Dominance.
That'll make for some interesting results.

It's all fine and good to lump the world's results together. But I think it may be more insightful to do it by region.

If somebody (Ankoku?) could get that kind of data together, it might prove something.

Or nothing. lol.

EDIT:
Also, since this is my Smash Master title post (Even though that doesn't matter since I have a custom title), I don't just want to waste it on Metaknight.

How do you beat Metaknight do you ask?

With Mindgames.

EDIT:
Lol, that image was way too big.

 

[Master Raven]

Can't MK just dash through the grenades and go for a grab if Snake is being campy? Though I suppose it could be a bit of a problem if Snake is camping good enough with mortars, but I don't have much problems with grenade camping.

 

[Inui]

Inui, ever since you ignored the rebuttal of the post you entered this topic with, I am skipping your posts.

Guys, may as well just ignore him. He's basically Brinboy with half a brain(which is a plus) and better grammar.

lol, you're dumb. I just gave tons of examples of the BEST Meta Knights, aka ATLANTIC NORTH Meta Knights, losing to other characters frequently. CLEAR proof he's not broken at all.

Can't MK just dash through the grenades and go for a grab if Snake is being campy? Though I suppose it could be a bit of a problem if Snake is camping good enough with mortars, but I don't have much problems with grenade camping.

How do you do against Afro?

 

[Natch]

lol, you're dumb. I just gave tons of examples of the BEST Meta Knights, aka ATLANTIC NORTH Meta Knights, losing to other characters frequently. CLEAR proof he's not broken at all.

Yep. Clear proof he's not broken WHICH IS AN ARGUMENT THAT NO ONE HAS TALKED ABOUT EXCEPT YOUR *** FOR THE LAST 100 POSTS. Everyone else has abandoned the "MK>9000 BAN PLOX" argument. Both sides agree that's not an issue. Find a new horn to toot.

 

[Master Raven]

How do you do against Afro?

I haven't played him enough with MK to know for sure, but the last time I played him with MK our set was close. He knocked me 3-2 in grand finals at Play N Trade Miami the last month or two. I usually prefer going DK against Snakes.

 

[Inui]

Yep. Clear proof he's not broken WHICH IS AN ARGUMENT THAT NO ONE HAS TALKED ABOUT EXCEPT YOUR *** FOR THE LAST 100 POSTS. Everyone else has abandoned the "MK>9000 BAN PLOX" argument. Both sides agree that's not an issue. Find a new horn to toot.

Why would anyone want to ban him if they don't think he's a broken character? He can and does lose. Why ban him? What is the argument to ban him if he's beatable?

I haven't played him enough with MK to know for sure, but the last time I played him with MK our set was close. He knocked me 3-2 in grand finals. I usually prefer going DK against Snakes.

I hear you're the best Meta Knight in FL atm.

You swap off of your main to fight Snake.

I personally like going Dedede against Snake.

BECAUSE META KNIGHT LOSES TO SNAKE.

 

[Napilopez]

Divide America's regions by Metaknight Dominance.
That'll make for some interesting results.

It's all fine and good to lump the world's results together. But I think it may be more insightful to do it by region.

If somebody (Ankoku?) could get that kind of data together, it might prove something.

Or nothing. lol.

Thats actually a really good idea.

I don't get why some people are getting worked up on Inui's posts. All he's showing is that metaknight is indeed very beatable in a tournament scene. Doesn't mean he's not the best, just that I don't see anything yet to warrant a ban, because we seem to be doing just fine. That doesn't mean our MKs stink either. Perhaps its a regional playstyle thing, IDK. All I know I that we haven't seen enough to warrant a ban.

 

[Master Raven]

I hear you're the best Meta Knight in FL atm.

According to some of the top players I've played, yeah... I don't go to a lot of tournies yet though, not until next year (traveling johns). I'll be playing at a house tourney this Saturday though.

Personally I think I'm good at the Snake matchup with MK, but I just like to use DK more because DK survives longer, has more and better KO options and in general I actually have more fun playing Snakes with DK than with MK.

 

[Natch]

Okay, Inui, the argument goes like this. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply informing you, keeping you up to date.

Now, before I talk about the argument, I will tell you everything that both sides agree on.

1. MK is not uber-broken.
2. However, MK is the best character in the game by a very noticable margin.
3. MK is counterpicks over 90%-ISH of the cast, and goes neutral with the rest.

With that said, read the OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057

That is why people want him banned. One of the most important aspects of Brawl is the counterpicking system of characters. You use character X, I can answer with character Y. This doesn't really apply to Metaknight so much. And that's why people want him gone. If the trend that Samurai Panda illustrated continues, the metagame will stagnate and become boring. BORING. Pro-banners don't want boring, they want fun.

Now, Inui, this is the page that everybody else is on now. Hope this puts you up to date on what's what in the MK ban debate.

 

[Mortimer]

Shadow is extremely good. He took 1st in teams with Snakeee at that same tournament. He didn't get top 8 in singles. All the other Meta Knights placed low or didn't even survive pools.

*this is shadow* =/ inui.. don't go by that placing for me. they forgot to put me into the brackets so they put me directly in losers vs NL and i wasn't very happy about all that and so he wrecked me lol.

Just in case you'd missed it or something..

 

[Inui]

I use Dedede because he's extremely heavy and has the CG. I'm just a lot more comfortable with it. I'll learn how to fight Snake better with Meta Knight eventually, though.

@Shadow thing: Oh, LOL. I wish he gave more details than that.

Now, Inui, this is the page that everybody else is on now. Hope this puts you up to date on what's what in the MK ban debate.

Yeah, thanks. I think he's not the best by a huge margain, though. He's not in his own tier.

 

[Natch]

I use Dedede because he's extremely heavy and has the CG. I'm just a lot more comfortable with it. I'll learn how to fight Snake better with Meta Knight eventually, though.

@Shadow thing: Oh, LOL. I wish he gave more details than that.



Yeah, thanks. I think he's not the best by a huge margain, though. He's not in his own tier.

I was careful not to say huge margin. He's beatable, but there is a certainly a noticable gap between him and Snake. Also, in my experience, a campy Snake is a ***** to fight.

 

[Inui]

I don't see any noticable gap between Meta Knight, Snake, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, and Diddy Kong. I see a normal one character gap between them all. A noticable gap, to me, is a tier gap. I don't see Meta Knight as more than one character spot better than Snake.

I guess the argument on the side to ban him is that Meta Knight, despite being beatable, is in his own tier at the very top.

 

[Natch]

I don't see any noticable gap between Meta Knight, Snake, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, and Diddy Kong. I see a normal one character gap between them all. A noticable gap, to me, is a tier gap. I don't see Meta Knight as more than one character spot better than Snake.

I guess the argument on the side to ban him is that Meta Knight, despite being beatable, is in his own tier at the very top.

....

No, the argument is the stagnation of the metagame. When I say MK is better by some kind of some-what big margin, I mean the fact that very few characters counter him. Now, Snake for instance, is countered by Pikachu and goes even with Ivysaur. IVYSAUR. This is just off the top of my head to boot.

Also, dun try and dispute that one. The PT boards make a thread in the other character's board for every matchup they discuss. We make sure we agree with the other board first. We do indeed take into account the disadvantages of our character, and thus don't have many good matchups. An even matchup with a top tier like Snake is rare-for example, Falco and GaW 60:40's PT as a whole.

 

[frdagaa]

Natch, thank you. I just read through the last few pages and was about to post exactly what you've been saying.

 

[Inui]

I think Snake beats Pikachu and destroys Ivysaur. >_>;

I'll feel free to dispute it all I want LOL. I never heard of any top PT players or known pros that main him that would offer insight I'd really listen to. I'm not going to deny that I'm a horrible elitist and tend to prefer hearing from the elites about stuff like this.

If Anther and DSF both come in and say Pikachu beats Snake, that'd make me think twice about my own opinion of the match-up, for instance.

 

[Ryusuta]

Snake is considered a neutral match-up with Pikachu. Snake has a pretty hard time against Pika spam, while Pika gets KOed easily by Snake. It's pretty much a 5:5 all the way.

 

[BrawlLover]

omg you guys, please, do not ban mk, he's one of the reason why i love brawl so much! no character was made to be banned, please please, sakurai would not want this!

 

[Mortimer]

omg you guys, please, do not ban mk, he's one of the reason why i love brawl so much! no character was made to be banned, please please, sakurai would not want this!

If you ask me, that's a point towards banning! *angrily shakes fist at Sakurai*

 

[BrawlLover]

*loool* i get it, but hey, not everyone's perfect, and if we ban mk now, we might as well ban every AWESOME and COOL character in every fighter ever, think about this before making rash and unhealthy decisions people!

 

[Fletch]

If you ask me, that's a point towards banning! *angrily shakes fist at Sakurai*

It's almost as if he's being sarcastic.

 

[CR4SH]

omg you guys, please, do not ban mk, he's one of the reason why i love brawl so much! no character was made to be banned, please please, sakurai would not want this!

Of course he wouldn't, he worked so hard making his favorite character just overpowered enough that he didn't think it would get him banned.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

True, Sakurai did not want this--in fact, he did not want there to be tournaments and the like either; didn't he SPECIFICALLY try to make Brawl a non-competitive..... FIGHTING game? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Napilopez]

Sonic goes even/near even with snake.. (waiting for KID to refute me) Just wanted to point that out =P

Ummm MK has very quick attacks with little lag. Yea. He also has a capey thingamjigg that makes him invisible! Wooooo.

Its 4:30 in the morning, and I'm bored.

 

[Plairnkk]

snake ***** sonic

mk and snake are pretty even

 

[BrawlLover]

True, Sakurai did not want this--in fact, he did not want there to be tournaments and the like either; didn't he SPECIFICALLY try to make Brawl a non-competitive..... FIGHTING game? Correct me if I'm wrong.

well i think brawl is so competitive, just look at the tournament scene buddy

 

[cobaltblue]

I know this has been sugested, but why not go with the ingame handicap system? Assuiming it was cranked up to 9 this would make even characters like sonic hit hard like snake snake. If this was implemented it could give the causal tourny goers (ie the people who make the money pots worth while but aren't reinventing the game) time to improve the meta game of other characters that they like.

I know someone responded to the first post that suggested claiming that meta would benefit from getting knocked back after every hit, but assuming both players were near even in skill, could a good meta really last long enough on a stage that is a counter pick against him AND disadvantage of being ko'd at say 50% by the majority of a character's attacks?

 

[BrawlLover]

I know this has been sugested, but why not go with the ingame handicap system? Assuiming it was cranked up to 9 this would make even characters like sonic hit hard like snake snake. If this was implemented it could give the causal tourny goers (ie the people who make the money pots worth while but aren't reinventing the game) time to improve the meta game of other characters that they like.

I know someone responded to the first post that suggested claiming that meta would benefit from getting knocked back after every hit, but assuming both players were near even in skill, could a good meta really last long enough on a stage that is a counter pick against him AND disadvantage of being ko'd at say 50% by the majority of a character's attacks?

exactly! why not try another solution you guys!!!! this could possibly work, they put a lot of depth and work into this game, like the handicap system, so i think it should definitely be used!

 

[Ryusuta]

Sonic goes even/near even with snake.. (waiting for KID to refute me) Just wanted to point that out =P

Not even freaking close. Sonic dies against Meta Knight.

mk and snake are pretty even

This is false, too. Snake gets hurt pretty badly by Meta Knight, too. Not quite as bad as Sonic, but it's nowhere NEAR even.