The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[DanGR]

XD, I'm guessing you're coming from GameFAQs? Sure they are a few weak points in the tier list, it's just a first draft. However, it's an effective and pretty solid overall picture of where characters fall. King DeDeDe doesn't even have that many weaknesses, and you failed to provide any. Also, you didn't take into regard his strengths. As for you Ike comment, I can't tell if you want him higher or lower, but all I'm going to say is that the only place for him to go from here is pretty much down.

lol, no. Everything else looks fine apart from what I mentioned imo. DDD has hideous matchups against Olimar and Diddy. Ike is worse than every character above Jiggs.

The list is fine for a draft. I'm just wondering what the sbr members were looking for in characters when they were deciding where they should be placed. Of course how well they do in the tourney scene and their matchups, but it looks like they completely disregarded potential and popularity all together.

For example, Olimar. He's unpopular and has good matchups. I don't really care where they place him though, cause the lower they place him, the better I look when I do well with him in tourneys. Later on, there might be a couple tier tourneys. Lets just say I'm looking forward to those.

He's drastically unpopular. There's about 10-15 mainers total in the U.S out there that consistently go to tourneys. I've never seen an Olimainer besides myself in all my tourney experience. I can honestly say that I'm the only Olimar user(not just mainer, anyone that uses him at all) in all of AL, GA, and TN.

He's got great matchups within the the sbr's top tier and high tier. Olimar has the advantage on Snake, DDD, Lucario, Pikachu(slightly), and Pit. He's got even matchups with everyone else except MK, Rob, and Kirby, which are disadvantageous.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I would be complaining about Link's placement but now i have all the more reason to whoop high tier tushy ^_^. Aww well, hopefully Link will evolve into a scary force. If nobody shows Link's worth, then i'll be the one- <remember izaw>.....never mind

LINK FTW!

Yeah Twilight Link, I guess this'll just give us more bragging rights when we smack down certain chars.

Keep up your Linkin' though. We don't have many reps, we could use more. We've got... Deva, Arkive, Legan, Izaw, and me I guess (but my location hinders my ability to help Link's placing very much >_> )

 

[Bombco101]

It's NOT just blind hate. Very valid points have been raised about how these conclusions were reached.

If they're primarily based on tournament results, Luigi is WAY too high.

If they're based on match-ups, then DeDeDe is way too high.

If it's based on character metagame, then Link is way too low.

If it's a combination of those things, just what is the ratio you're factoring in?

Just because the "masses" are "hating" on this list doesn't mean they aren't raising incredibly good points. Since we're all watching anyway, why don't you put these worries to rest and explain these factors?

but the majority of the brawl boards aren't "smart"

They do things they think are funny even though they are juts reposts of jokes that were posted before.

nearly everyone there is elitist, and the few who aren't either left, while there are like 6 who still go there.

There's no need to defend the place, it's widely accepted that gamefaqs has the crappiest message boards ever.

 

[Best101]

Cause of fatigue and auto-switching when dying, you can't.

Makes sense

 

[Kiyosuki]

To be fair, these aren't reflective of any of those levels. But to be honest-- did you really think they would be?

This list isn't even close to final. It's pretty much a projection at this point. I take it with a grain of salt. So should you.

And please don't try and defend GameFAQs.

Well there's a lot of stubborn douches over there but I wouldn't be so dismissive of everyone there either...

It's not like this board or most really don't have their share of that.

I'm getting off topic don't pay too much attention to this.

 

[Tenki]

I gotta hand it to ya, Falcon/Ganon/Yoshi/Samus/Sonic all made it out of bottom tier.

They're all low-tier.

 

[cutter]

Gamefaqs would be a nice place... if only there were mods there.

Seriously, it feels like mods don't even exist there. A big majority of the topics are useless spam and pointless discussion. Don't even get me started when it comes to individual posts. If Gamefaqs had ANY mods that cared worth a **** to mod the forums and stop all the spam then it would be a decent place to go to.

 

[Snowstalker]

Let's see...

Olimar, Ness, Yoshi, and Sonic should be moved up.
MK should have a tier of his own.
Shiek, Ike, Wario, and and Bowser should move down.
Link and Ganon should switch.

 

[Jump_Man]

lol at Ike being in middle.

Link, Sonic and Yoshi are a bit low, and imo, GW should be above D3, but eh, it's a nice first draft

 

[Kiyosuki]

Gamefaqs would be a nice place... if only there were mods there.

Seriously, it feels like mods don't even exist there. A big majority of the topics are useless spam and pointless discussion. Don't even get me started when it comes to individual posts. If Gamefaqs had ANY mods that cared worth a **** to mod the forums and stop all the spam then it would be a decent place to go to.

GameFAQs is a huge place though so getting really active board to board moderation is probably easier said than done.

I'm just saying that while there is a lot of nonsense around GameFAQs boards, sometimes there's also some legitimate people and topic. Just taking a fleeting glance at this thread for a sec, but while there's a lot of the usual nonsensical hatred and other things there are as that guy mentioned a few things I think that are worthy of talking about.

I guess they'll be lost in the crowd though.

 

[Bombco101]

Gamefaqs would be a nice place... if only there were mods there.

Seriously, it feels like mods don't even exist there. A big majority of the topics are useless spam and pointless discussion. Don't even get me started when it comes to individual posts. If Gamefaqs had ANY mods that cared worth a **** to mod the forums and stop all the spam then it would be a decent place to go to.

the mods do exist, they delete the intelligent debates while keeping up the topics thta troll the people ho are new to the game.

honestl;y, just because the topic is about the system wars doesn't make it a horrible topic, it's better to remove the ones people make that really aren't about anything whatsoever.

The first 5 batches of mods had connection to CJayC (like friends or his brother's friends) and they only have about 100 for a site tht size

 

[Ryusuta]

See, and that's the thing. BECAUSE these issues are being raised by the GameFAQs guys (who are universally reviled, and the Brawl board is actually reviled WITHIN GameFAQs, making it a double-whammy of sorts), this sort of leads to an ad hominem situation.

A valid argument is still valid regardless of its origins.

As such, I repeat:

How much of this factors in tournament results? How much of it factors in ATs and/or the current metagame of each character? How much of it factors in character match-ups? How much of it is based on popularity/expert bias (admitted or not)?

And it goes farther than that. Do these factors stay the same for each character? How much agreement was there on this list? How vague or specific an idea did you have for each specific character where they were supposed to go.

Let's set aside the GameFAQs thing for a moment and discuss this. There seem to be some statistics here out of whack. Not to say that they can't be fixed, but it would be better to address them sooner than later.

 

[Shadow Light Master]

lol, no. Everything else looks fine apart from what I mentioned imo. DDD has hideous matchups against Olimar and Diddy. Ike is worse than every character above Jiggs.

OK, I agree with you here. Ike shouldn't really be that high. And yes, KD3 has some bad match-ups (also, Toon Link has a slight advantage) but I personally believe he's fine where he is. I'm just nit-picking.

The list is fine for a draft. I'm just wondering what the sbr members were looking for in characters when they were deciding where they should be placed. Of course how well they do in the tourney scene and their matchups, but it looks like they completely disregarded potential and popularity all together.

Yeah, I'm wondering about this too. That makes two of us.

For example, Olimar. He's unpopular and has good matchups. I don't really care where they place him though, cause the lower they place him, the better I look when I do well with him in tourneys. Later on, there might be a couple tier tourneys. Lets just say I'm looking forward to those.

I don't think Olimar is unpopular, but I agree to looking forward to stuff. Toon Link will be ****. >.>

He's drastically unpopular. There's about 10-15 mainers total in the U.S out there that consistently go to tourneys. I've never seen an Olimainer besides myself in all my tourney experience. I can honestly say that I'm the only Olimar user(not just mainer, anyone that uses him at all) in all of AL, GA, and TN.

Same with Toon Link.

He's got great matchups within the the sbr's top tier and high tier. Olimar has the advantage on Snake, DDD, Lucario, Pikachu(slightly), and Pit. He's got even matchups with everyone else except MK, Rob, and Kirby, which are disadvantageous.

Pikachu is a point of contention, but otherwise I agree.

 

[Gemini77752]

As many prior to me have asked, and nobody has replied to for whatever reasons, what is this tier list based on, exactly? What's your general formula, because as some have stated (At least one quoting me.), it must be flawed regardless of what it is.

At least if we knew the formula we could better defend what's wrong, precisely, and what could be improved on.

 

[Bombco101]

As many prior to me have asked, and nobody has replied to for whatever reasons, what is this tier list based on, exactly? What's your general formula, because as some have stated (At least one quoting me.), it must be flawed regardless of what it is.

At least if we knew the formula we could better defend what's wrong, precisely, and what could be improved on.

it's in the first post.

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Gamefaqs would be a nice place... if only there were mods there.

Seriously, it feels like mods don't even exist there. A big majority of the topics are useless spam and pointless discussion. Don't even get me started when it comes to individual posts. If Gamefaqs had ANY mods that cared worth a **** to mod the forums and stop all the spam then it would be a decent place to go to.

While I don't agree with the way the Brawl boards runs, I think this is a little misinformed.

The grave problems with GameFAQs began one they merged with Gamespot. Granted, the Melee Boards and Smashboards Forums were fighting during and before that, but at least they Melee boards had some sort of intelligence. Once the merger took place, CJay sold us out to CNET, and then left us, everything seriously went to hell.

The problem with GameFAQs isn't the lack of Mods. The problem with GameFAQS is the current staff of Mods. They're, simply put, horrible. And I don't mean that in that they don't Mod things. I mean that that they Mod the most stupid things, and are idiots.

I'm not proud of GameFAQs anymore, but it's unfair to assume that it's always been like this.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, at least the Melee Boards were intelligent and eventually stopped fighting with Smash Boards. They are nothing like the Brawl Boards. They actually know their stuff. >_>

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Another point I'd like to add is that the problem is that a lot of spam on the GameFAQs forums isn't off-topic, so that can't particularly Mod it. The problem is that there are way too many idiots. >_>

 

[Gemini77752]

it's in the first post.

I meant numbers, or at least approximates of numbers.

It seems that tournament results, for example, are 80% of what put D3 where he is, but didn't harm Luigi in the slightest. In this case, the formula, as it were, is bended for whatever reason. That's why I'm asking for an approximate percentage based formula.

 

[Chaco]

Wow, they're having a fit over at GameFAQs. XDD
It's almost sad. I think I even saw one who said that Yoshi was low on THIS list because his "wavedash was bad" ?
> >;
I hope I read wrong.

Well, the new one, the Draconic Trot, (which had to have similiar name or I would've called it fox cancelling) is much better imo and is really fast.

 

[AgentAO]

Could you guys, perchance make a list of why each character is placed where they are? Kind of like how you explained why certain stages were banned or counterpick for that list. It would help us understand the placement for anyone not named Meta Knight, Snake, or Captain Falcon a tad bit better.

 

[Semmick]

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zamus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Shiek

Yay! Sheik is low tier! I'm gonna use her now!

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Yes I agree, there needs to be explanations, or a formula of how the weighted everything. A few positions don't make sense on the tier list to me. I'm guessing tourney results played a large part, which is why KD3 is so high and Toon Link is only Middle. However, that makes Luigi an oddity.

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Yay! Sheik is low tier! I'm gonna use her now!

Why would you use a character because they're now low tier?

 

[AlexX]

Ike is worse than every character above Jiggs.

Ike isn't exactly good, but he's not outright terrible, either. And I'd say he's about even with most of the characters above Jiggs in the low tier, not flat-out inferior.

That said, he is indeed higher than I thought he'd be... Same with the Mother boys. Likewise, Oli is a lot lower than I expected.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

I think it would have to be a mixture of all the possible ways to compare them, metagame, potential, tourney rankings, matchups, etc. it is the only logical way to do it. either way i dont have any major beef with this list.

 

[Bombco101]

While I don't agree with the way the Brawl boards runs, I think this is a little misinformed.

The grave problems with GameFAQs began one they merged with Gamespot. Granted, the Melee Boards and Smashboards Forums were fighting during and before that, but at least they Melee boards had some sort of intelligence. Once the merger took place, CJay sold us out to CNET, and then left us, everything seriously went to hell.

The problem with GameFAQs isn't the lack of Mods. The problem with GameFAQS is the current staff of Mods. They're, simply put, horrible. And I don't mean that in that they don't Mod things. I mean that that they Mod the most stupid things, and are idiots.

I'm not proud of GameFAQs anymore, but it's unfair to assume that it's always been like this.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, at least the Melee Boards were intelligent and eventually stopped fighting with Smash Boards. They are nothing like the Brawl Boards. They actually know their stuff. >_>

There is one mod on gamefaqs who's actually a good one, but yes, this is true

Another point I'd like to add is that the problem is that a lot of spam on the GameFAQs forums isn't off-topic, so that can't particularly Mod it. The problem is that there are way too many idiots. >_>

yes it is, it's just that the *******es of the users there only mark the ones that are actualy on topic, and the mods that lurk the Brawl ones are trigger happy with their position.

 

[Bombco101]

Why would you use a character because they're now low tier?

he supports TR4Q

 

[OverLade]

Shouldn't toon link be higher than Middle? I thought for sure he'd place about Kirby.

 

[mobilisq]

Cool, I play one character from each tier

 

[DanGR]

Ike isn't exactly good, but he's not outright terrible, either. And I'd say he's about even with most of the characters above Jiggs in the low tier, not flat-out inferior.

That said, he is indeed higher than I thought he'd be... Same with the Mother boys. Likewise, Oli is a lot lower than I expected.

I think the mid tier should be MUCH bigger than any other tier. If the sbr were to do this, I think Ike would be near the bottom of mid tier. Ganon and CF would be the only ones in bottom, while about 10 others would be high and MK in top.

 

[cutter]

While I don't agree with the way the Brawl boards runs, I think this is a little misinformed.

The grave problems with GameFAQs began one they merged with Gamespot. Granted, the Melee Boards and Smashboards Forums were fighting during and before that, but at least they Melee boards had some sort of intelligence. Once the merger took place, CJay sold us out to CNET, and then left us, everything seriously went to hell.

The problem with GameFAQs isn't the lack of Mods. The problem with GameFAQS is the current staff of Mods. They're, simply put, horrible. And I don't mean that in that they don't Mod things. I mean that that they Mod the most stupid things, and are idiots.

I'm not proud of GameFAQs anymore, but it's unfair to assume that it's always been like this.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, at least the Melee Boards were intelligent and eventually stopped fighting with Smash Boards. They are nothing like the Brawl Boards. They actually know their stuff. >_>

Ok this makes a lot more sense now. I've been visiting Gamefaqs since like 2002 and then stopped going there from 06-07 (was busy with other things; really didn't have the time to keep posting there). I just got back into Gamefaqs just last year and it's terrible how everything is a huge mess. There ARE some intelligent posters (ie Silverflash, xxpack09, Nigerian Star Storm aka Longhorn, etc.) there, but for every one of those guys, there are like 15 more idiotic people that do nothing to contribute to the forums except for spamming and flaming.

 

[Swordplay]

Ganon Beat Link....Hyrule is DOOMED

 

[Roller]

But R0y haz F1Re!

You sir just won this thread.

 

[Shadow Light Master]

he supports TR4Q

You mean that old fad "tiers are for queers?" Even if he mains low based on the tier list, that's still technically making him a tier *****.

Oh God, I love the auto-censor system of Smashboards. >.> And yes, the GFAQs mods are very trigger-happy and stupid.

@ Anyone asking about Toon Link: it's because there's not that much tourney data of him. He will be higher once people start using him more.

 

[Dastrn]

Jesus Christ.

He's in God tier. That's why he's not listed.

 

[Bombco101]

Ok this makes a lot more sense now. I've been visiting Gamefaqs since like 2002 and then stopped going there from 06-07 (was busy with other things; really didn't have the time to keep posting there). I just got back into Gamefaqs just last year and it's terrible how everything is a huge mess. There ARE some intelligent posters (ie Silverflash, xxpack09, Nigerian Star Storm aka Longhorn, etc.) there, but for every one of those guys, there are like 15 more idiotic people that do nothing to contribute to the forums except for spamming and flaming.

Social board is better,

Idiots don't like it there, topics tend to have a point, and direct access to a mod who posts semi-frequently.

but yeah, it ruined itself generally around 2004

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Social board is better,

Idiots don't like it there, topics tend to have a point, and direct access to a mod who posts semi-frequently.

but yeah, it ruined itself generally around 2004

Post 2003. >.>

 

[Anth0ny]

Flawless list. Awesome work guys.

 

[Gemini77752]

@ Anyone asking about Toon Link: it's because there's not that much tourney data of him. He will be higher once people start using him more.

Which is precisely why Tournament Results at this point in time should be significantly less of a factor than pure Matchups, Potential and Metagame. The game is still fairly new. Give it at least a few more months before anything decisive can even begin to be made. I mean, honestly, the game hasn't been out for a year yet!

 

[Shadow Light Master]

He's in God tier. That's why he's not listed.

OBJECTION! I'm a Muslim, and I refute that position. A lower tier is necessary. >.>

lol