The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[rehab]

I'm not an authority on how **** desynched blizzard spam is, but even with that, IC's are very unpopular for how high up they are and they get screwed so bad by some stages they might not ever have a solid list of stage strikes. Also crap grab range, at better levels they don't throw you back and forth nearly as much as Dedede sits on you for half a minute.

It doesn't help that Snake would camp the crap out of that approach, for example

 

[Justblaze647]

Ice Climbers belong in the A tier list, because of their crazy grabs. DDD is in the A tier list, and yet the IC can chaingrab better than DDD can. Also their Blizzard approach has so much priority. It's the strategy where each IC short hops and uses blizzard to cover each other. IC are also doing extremely well in tournaments now even though their not a popular character, which is quite impressive. How could the SBR ignore the craziness that IC can do? It just baffles me. Everyone is scared of a good IC player no matter what character you are. 3 perfect chaingrabs is all they need to win a match.

^ It's kinda hard to disagree with that...^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But it doesn't reflect how well good they when used as one Character...

agreed... I mean. people DO know that one reason sheik is listed so low is because sheik has so much trouble killing things. even at the most rudimentary level, pressing down+B to give you NINE GOOD KILL MOVES will drastically affect how much better sheik can do. it also completely refreshes your moveset, allows you to counterpick midmatch if the matchup is bad, and there are multiple stratedgies for using BOTH in tandem throughout the whole match.

it's okay to leave sheik and zelda in there alone, it's just that zelda/sheik deserves in there too. It's VERY misleading to put only zelda and sheik in, not zelda/sheik together. because it's not like zelda/sheik has matchups that are the average of her two counterparts, no. she has much better matchups. Zelda/Sheik automatically gets to chose the most advantageous counterpart for any given matchups and, for more matchups, using both in tandem does even better than either of the two.

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts in this case. Sakurai finally got Zelda/Sheik right. they are quite okay alone, but will just flat out do much better together. Zelda/Sheik has only a couple matchups where she isn't at least even adn has several matchups that she should dominate throughout the entirety of the teir list.

Yoshi/MK is a terrible example of a Zelda/Sheik analog BTW. MK has better matchups than yoshi across the board and wouldn't really gain anything by switching midmatch. As a result, yoshi/MK would essentially just be MK. But zelda sheik is different. there's a pretty even spread as to which character (or combination of the two) is the best way to deal with an enemy. Ask any DK if he wouldn't like it if he had a move that suddenly took away DDD as a counterpick. or ask bowser if he would like a move that made him blazingly fast so that he could wrack up damage and then turn back to have all fresh KO moves.

people who say that Zelda/Sheik is in no way fundamentally different than she was in melee really have no idea what they are talking about. Zelda and sheik need each other to be great.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm not an authority on how **** desynched blizzard spam is, but even with that, IC's are very unpopular for how high up they are and they get screwed so bad by some stages they might not ever have a solid list of stage strikes. Also crap grab range, at better levels they don't throw you back and forth nearly as much as Dedede sits on you for half a minute.

It doesn't help that Snake would camp the crap out of that approach, for example

Ugh... DDD can't chaingrab all characters infinitely like IC can. DDD can only infinite grab a few characters, like DK, Bowser, DDD, Mario, Luigi, and sometimes Samus. Crap grab range doesn't mean too much when you have 2 chances to grab, both Popo and Nana can grab, and if Popo misses the grab, Nana can grab right away after Popo misses.

I wish Rumble Falls could be used as a counter pick so chaingrabs won't be so "gamebreaking." But I just make up my own rules regardless, cause I know the SBR doesn't know everything.

 

[Undrdog]

People will have to start playing the Ice Climbers and placing high for this to happen. Technically the IC only need to grab the opponent three times a match to win. Even if the opponent is expecting it this shouldn't be too hard to pull off for an avid player. However results speak louder then anything else.

On those lines, it's my opinion that Pit is much better then a LOT of those placed above him in this Tier List. However with the high quantities of MK and G&W, who in their right mind would want to use Pit in tournaments?

EDIT: And just to reiterate, DDD for Mid Tier! /troll

 

[M.K]

15/15 means every person ranked him #1 in the game.... how is he not clearly the best? are you saying you want people to misvote so he'll have a less broken looking rating?

No, that's wrong.
15/15 means that the SBR rated his competitive potential as "perfect".
If this were true, he would have been winning every match, yet it isn't impossible to beat him. A score from 14.50-14.99 should have been more appropriate, but alas, here lies the problem with the SBR.

 

[Flayl]

The score is relative, 15/15 means and ONLY MEANS that he is the best character in the game. It does not in any way mean he is a perfect character.

 

[Red Arremer]

No, that's wrong.
15/15 means that the SBR rated his competitive potential as "perfect".
If this were true, he would have been winning every match, yet it isn't impossible to beat him. A score from 14.50-14.99 should have been more appropriate, but alas, here lies the problem with the SBR.

No. The SBR members themselves said that 15 just means that everyone agreed for MK to be the best character.
If you desire, I can try to find the quote(s) saying this.

 

[choknater]

Ice Climbers have heavy counters who are nearly impossible to grab if they camp correctly, even if they trip. Metaknight is a prime example. He can just camp in the air with dairs. While the IC's try to Desynch blizzard camp in order to nullify Metaknight's approaches, he can simply stay out of range of the blizzard and it is much easier for him to find an opening by flying behind them or waiting until there is a hole in their desynch.

Peach and G&W have effective air camping strategies as well. It's extremely hard to grab them with IC's. Any character can implement an effective strategy that avoids grabs against the IC's, and it's a matter of the IC player working hard to achieve a grab. It's easier on some characters than it is on others. From there, it is a matter of skill and timing to complete the CG. (Though, Hylian keeps discovering how to make infinites easier and easier lol.)

 

[Justblaze647]

On those lines, it's my opinion that Pit is much better then a LOT of those placed above him in this Tier List.

I 2nd that opinion...

10,000 times.

 

[Flayl]

Not to mention stage counterpicks. Not every stage is Final Destination.

 

[rehab]

Ugh... DDD can't chaingrab all characters infinitely like IC can. DDD can only infinite grab a few characters, like DK, Bowser, DDD, Mario, Luigi, and sometimes Samus. Crap grab range doesn't mean too much when you have 2 chances to grab, both Popo and Nana can grab, and if Popo misses the grab, Nana can grab right away after Popo misses.

I wish Rumble Falls could be used as a counter pick so chaingrabs won't be so "gamebreaking." But I just make up my own rules regardless, cause I know the SBR doesn't know everything.

Are you saying DDD is a worse character than IC's? DDD grabs a lot of characters much easier, and he sets many of them up for bair gimps, along with doing, you know, very good damage every time he gets a grab, chain or not. He also has much better character attributes in living longer due to both recovery and weight, and in never being forced to act with less than half his full potential in the middle of a match.

He wrecks many characters without trying. IC's usually don't.

I don't know my desynch etiquette, but "Popo and Nana desynched running at you alternatively hoping for a grab"... sounds punishable by anybody with a range advantage on them. Which is a fair amount of people.

Are you saying more infinites=better character?

(not even taking into account real life performance, which renders all of this relatively unimportant)

 

[CaliburChamp]

Are you saying DDD is a worse character than IC's? DDD grabs a lot of characters much easier, and he sets many of them up for bair gimps, along with doing, you know, very good damage every time he gets a grab, chain or not. He also has much better character attributes in living longer due to both recovery and weight, and in never being forced to act with less than half his full potential in the middle of a match.

He wrecks many characters without trying. IC's usually don't.

I don't know my desynch etiquette, but "Popo and Nana desynched running at you alternatively hoping for a grab"... sounds punishable by anybody with a range advantage on them. Which is a fair amount of people.

Are you saying more infinites=better character?

(not even taking into account real life performance, which renders all of this relatively unimportant)

I think DDD is the better character cause of what you already mentioned, but I do believe IC and DDD should be in the same tier. DDD would just be a few spots higher than IC's. At their full potential I can see them in the same tier, it's just that IC takes more work to get that high than DDD. Mostly because DDD is like the easiest character to pick up and play, and IC are the hardest character to master. The tier list is for the character's full potential, it's not a tier list for who is the easiest to play as, otherwise IC would be bottom tier on that tier list. lol.

 

[rehab]

I guess more people will have to pick up Ice Climbers and prove you right. IC's might actually be gaining steam in results lately, I really don't know exactly where they'll stand

 

[AOB]

No, that's wrong.
15/15 means that the SBR rated his competitive potential as "perfect".
If this were true, he would have been winning every match, yet it isn't impossible to beat him. A score from 14.50-14.99 should have been more appropriate, but alas, here lies the problem with the SBR.

We would be nuts to rate his competitive potential as perfect. That doesn't even make sense.

Voters gave a 15 to the character(s) they thought were the best. 15/15 means everyone put Meta Knight in the top spot.

 

[Vorguen]

Yeah a 15 didn't mean "impossible to beat" it simply meant "unquestionably the best"

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It's like saying the winner of a tournament actually took 1.5th (and not 1st) because he is beatable. XD

 

[Justblaze647]

it's Like Saying The Winner Of A Tournament Actually Took 1.5th Because He Is Beatable. Xd

Qft!

Lmao!

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Qft!

Lmao!

qtf again. THAT'S how true it is. hahaha

 

[Vorguen]

I think as long as we realize the Tier list is simply meant to be hypothetical people will stop bickering about it too.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I think as long as we realize the Tier list is simply meant to be hypothetical people will stop bickering about it too.

Actually, I think if people would just understand the tier list for what it actually is, the bickering would stop. The tier list is based on fairly concrete statistics, but people take one glance at the list and assume that a character's position implies he/she will always/never win a match. The list simply indicates how the characters are performing in tournaments right now. It does nothing to factor in potential, future evolution to the metagame, etc.

 

[HeroMystic]

I think the real reason why people complain about tier lists is because they don't want their character to be negatively viewed (which happens a lot).

 

[YonoSSB]

Falcon needs to be moved up. Not because he's good, but his tourney results are actually in C Class

 

[Red Arremer]

Falcon needs to be moved up. Not because he's good, but his tourney results are actually in C Class

Which he only achieved because of Ally winning with him against Anther's Sonic and the complete result of Ally's tournament getting counted to Falcon... <.<"

 

[qerkdtx]

thats because of one guy

 

[Deoxys]

Actually, I think if people would just understand the tier list for what it actually is, the bickering would stop. The tier list is based on fairly concrete statistics, but people take one glance at the list and assume that a character's position implies he/she will always/never win a match. The list simply indicates how the characters are performing in tournaments right now. It does nothing to factor in potential, future evolution to the metagame, etc.

The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0:

"2. Instead of measuring match outcomes, tiers are more a measurement of potential of characters against the rest of the cast in a competitive, 1v1 tournament environment. "

I'm guessing you meant to say that it doesn't factor in potential in the future metagame.

 

[Zankoku]

The tier list is based on fairly concrete statistics... The list simply indicates how the characters are performing in tournaments right now.

I don't think it's good policy for us to lie about what the tier list is based on considering Marc posted exactly how it was made in the opening post here.

 

[Snowstalker]

Hey, I made a tier list based on the one the SBR used to vote.

15: Meta Knight
14: Snake
13: Falco, Mr. Game & Watch
12: King Dedede, Marth, Diddy Kong
11: R.O.B, Wario, Lucario, Olimar, Ice Climbers
10: Pikachu, Kirby, Donkey Kong
9: Peach, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus
8: Pit, Wolf
7: Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, Sheik
6: Fox, Sonic, Yoshi, Ness
5: Ike, Mario
4: Pokemon Trainer, Lucas
3: Samus, Link
2: Captain Falcon
1: Jigglypuff, Ganondorf

 

[Lib3r4t3]

I think you guys should make a small adjustment to adjust the names of the tiers. A "G" ranking is usually a good thing.




Can someone PM and tell me what is so good about Falco? I'm having a hard time understanding.

 

[G-Beast]

aw darn Lucario moved down =(

 

[LumpyCPU...]

@ buzz: wow... pwnt leik a nub!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I don't think it's good policy for us to lie about what the tier list is based on considering Marc posted exactly how it was made in the opening post here.

Especially if you look at Lucas. =3

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0:

"2. Instead of measuring match outcomes, tiers are more a measurement of potential of characters against the rest of the cast in a competitive, 1v1 tournament environment. "

I'm guessing you meant to say that it doesn't factor in potential in the future metagame.

OK OK I made a really bad choice of words. I was implying that it is not theory-based potential; it is potential based on real observations of the character.

I don't think it's good policy for us to lie about what the tier list is based on considering Marc posted exactly how it was made in the opening post here.

THE CAKE IS A LIE!

*runs off crying*

 

[Lovely]

Ice Climbers DX

Samus :D

Wario :D

Olimar :D

Kirby :D

 

[LumpyCPU...]

maybe there will be cake...
and all your friends will be invited... TOO FUNNY

 

[Milos]

Falco is good because of chain grabs, and easy KO followups.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

so you agree that he's better than D3 overall, right?
lol

 

[Milos]

well I don't know about that

D3 can camp like crazy, rack up damage off 1 grab really easily, and has strong finshing moves just like falco, as well as easily spaced and strong aerials.

 

[Red Arremer]

so you agree that he's better than D3 overall, right?
lol

I do.

Not (only) because of what that guy said, though, but rather because Falco is really an extremely good character.

 

[pkblaze]

i only read the first 6 pages, so don't flame if this was settled, but


i think giving people scores in relation to meatknight(lol meat) is an error, since it gives him an air of invincibility to him. and this leads to more 'metaknight should be banned!' posts. i agree with the tier list for the most part, but not the scores. even in melee, they gave marth and fow 9.9/10. not 10/10.


long story short, perfect ratings must be banned!