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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

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Snowstalker

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I understand your plight, but there are still some inexcusable inaccuracies. For example, people who don't have dollar signs in their eyes *coughm2kcough* know that Ness is several spots above Lucas, that Sonic is low-mid, and Yoshi high-low or low-mid.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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I understand your plight, but there are still some inexcusable inaccuracies. For example, people who don't have dollar signs in their eyes *coughm2kcough* know that Ness is several spots above Lucas, that Sonic is low-mid, and Yoshi high-low or low-mid.
Why do you continue to attack the financial side of smash? Winning money entails winning with a character. The tier list is not a ranking of characters with the most elaborate metagames; it is a list of the characters that win. There is nothing else to it. If anything, the ones who play for money understand the tier list better than those who don't.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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Agreed. Getting the whole SBR-B to agree on the list would have been IMPOSSIBLE. I have enough trouble getting 3 people to agree on pizza toppings. It wasn't going to happen and I(and most others probably) accept this although I REALLY wish we could see the reasonings I understand why we can't do that either.

To anybody who tl:dr his post, Not everyone is going to agree, stop *****ing and go win tourneys it's WAY more productive than arguing on a message board.


HOLLA BAAAAAAAAAAACK
Woot woot!
 

JesiahTEG

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Why do you continue to attack the financial side of smash? Winning money entails winning with a character. The tier list is not a ranking of characters with the most elaborate metagames; it is a list of the characters that win. There is nothing else to it. If anything, the ones who play for money understand the tier list better than those who don't.
Not to mention, M2K loves the Smash series perhaps the most out of anyone on this Earth. Saying he plays just for money is stupid. If that were true, he'd just go play Halo.
 

Teran

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If anything, the ones who play for money understand the tier list better than those who don't.
You know, that's actually very true, people really don't realise that.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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I am mystified as to why people are so stressed about adjacent placements.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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Why do you continue to attack the financial side of smash? Winning money entails winning with a character. The tier list is not a ranking of characters with the most elaborate metagames; it is a list of the characters that win. There is nothing else to it. If anything, the ones who play for money understand the tier list better than those who don't.
If that were true than wouldn't it be a mirror image of the character rankings list? Or rather a solidified version rather than the rough skeleton that's currently up?

So they are both 10th, and there is no character that is 11th.
Interesting concept...
You can also argue that they are both 10th AND 11th.
 

Yikarur

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So they are both 10th, and there is no character that is 11th.
Interesting concept...

that is a regulare thing o__O do you have never seen something like this?

Look at the tio brackets for example.

There are a lot of people who are placed somewhere at the exact same place.

You could say Lucario and Olimar are both 10th. and 11th.
 

Snowstalker

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Not to mention, M2K loves the Smash series perhaps the most out of anyone on this Earth. Saying he plays just for money is stupid. If that were true, he'd just go play Halo.
Have you seen his rants on how much he hates Brawl?
 

AOB

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I understand your plight, but there are still some inexcusable inaccuracies. For example, people who don't have dollar signs in their eyes *coughm2kcough* know that Ness is several spots above Lucas, that Sonic is low-mid, and Yoshi high-low or low-mid.
1. Go ahead and explain why you disagree with some of the placements if you like, but don't make judgments about people just because they don't feel the same way about the rankings as you do.

2. M2K likes money (can you blame him?), but I really don't think that has anything to do with the way he ranks the characters. Not really much of a connection there. And he may be crazy, but he has a lot of valuable experience and skill to draw from.
 

EdreesesPieces

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edited cuz the graph mindgamed me

although i am curious as to why ness/lucas are above sonic/pokemon trainer. the mother boys have consistently placed below those two in tournament play. sonic has quite a few consistent placers, pokemon trainer has typh and adriel both placing consistently in california, mother boys have...who?
I placed 9th at WCSL using Peach and Ness. I do represent Ness in most of the tournies I go to. Infact, not that it really means anything for the tier list, but one time I beat Typh using Ness as a matter of fact ;)

Also I don't know how Ness and Lucas ended up tied. Lots of people voted them separtely. Infact I put 4 characters in between them.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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Have you seen his rants on how much he hates Brawl?
It doesn't matter. If I have a choice between trusting a player who plays for money (and always wins) and a player who plays for the love of the game (and sometimes wins), I am going to trust the former. You are trying to argue that playing for money somehow taints M2K's opinion on the game. If anything, you should consider playing for money and see how your opinion of characters changes.
 

Red Arremer

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I am mystified as to why people are so stressed about adjacent placements.
I guess they think being placed as 11th or 12th or 10th would make any real difference, I guess. It's like being the one before last, just to be able to say "At least I'm not that last!".

I dunno what's up with that, either.
 

DtJ Hilt

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I am mystified as to why people are so stressed about adjacent placements.
i just dont think it makes any sense... maybe it's just because i main oli. Did they both get EXACTLY 10.94? or was there a tiny difference we're not seeing? if they're the exact same, there's no reason olimar should be at a lower rank than lucario.
 

kr3wman

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I am mystified as to why people are so stressed about adjacent placements.
It's like they have never seen a tie in any other classification system.

It's surprising, considering how much people like to rank things.

i just dont think it makes any sense... maybe it's just because i main oli. Did they both get EXACTLY 10.94? or was there a tiny difference we're not seeing? if they're the exact same, there's NO reason olimar should be at a lower rank than lucario.
He's not.

IT'S A GO**** TIE.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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If all M2K cared about was earning money he wouldn't even bother voting. Don't bring bias against characters or people in here. The goal of a tier list is to be as objective as possible.
 

Snowstalker

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It's not, but the person who loves the Smash franchise the most would have to love all 3, not just love 2 and print money from the other one.
 

Adapt

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In case anyone's curious, here was my list when I voted.

15-Snake, Meta Knight
14-Diddy Kong, Olimar
13-King DeDeDe, Falco, Marth, Game and Watch
12-Wario, Donkey Kong
11-Zero Suit Samus
10- Kirby, Lucario, Luigi
9-R.O.B., Pikachu, Mario
8-Ice Climbers
7-Peach, Ike, Sheik, Zelda
6-Pit, Bowser, Yoshi, Wolf
5-Sonic, Toon Link
4-Fox, Pokemon Trainer, Samus
3-Ness, Lucas
2-Falcon, Jigglypuff
1-Ganondorf, Link

Very interesting, I appreciate that you set your vote out in the open.
I disagree with certain placements of course (it would be amazing if I didn't), but thanks for sharing the info.
 

Blue Ninjakoopa

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Letters. Nice. I thought Mario would move up a bit, though. :(
 

kr3wman

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I heard M2K is decent at making money off Melee AND Brawl.

And you all know about Smash 64.
 

kr3wman

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You've seen the tier list on smashwiki, correct? It classifies them being two seperate positions.
Are you out of your mind blind?

They are at the same position, and FOR FORMATTING PURPOSE ONLY is olimar lower than Lucario.

Maybe he's a worst or better character, but he is not according to this list.
 

JesiahTEG

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Very interesting, I appreciate that you set your vote out in the open.
I disagree with certain placements of course (it would be amazing if I didn't), but thanks for sharing the info.
Yeah, I just wanted to show people just how drastically I disagree with some of the other SBR members. The point is though, none of us agreed completely with each other's list. If we argued about it like the people in this thread did, we wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

Also, M2K is really really good at Smash 64 also.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Looking at it from my point of view, playing for money will give more accurate tier results than playing because you like the game because you have less 'fan' influence - you're simply in it for the money. The idea of winning money as your aim also means that you will do whatever you can to win. Using the 'better' character is obviously going to be critical in achieving that goal correct?

Number wise, what are the boundries for the tiers? E.g. assuming 11.5 is the boundry between tier A and B, do you need more than 11.5 average to get into A rank?
 

Zolga Owns

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Interesting, the only problem I have with it is Meta Knight being in his own tier. He should be on par with Snake in my opinion. I trust you guys to take in all information and make good judgment. I'm not one to argue about something that I can't control or influence.

Good to see Ness and Lucas equal with each other and Pikachu in C tier.
 

Yukiwarashi

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I'm fine with the tier list, considering I only care about 3 characters. =p

A bit sad that Pokemon Trainer is now the worst newcomer though, haha. Can't be helped though. I'll have to try hard this year.
 

King Funk

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This list is completely stupid... It is based on a bunch of pros giving a rating to each character and placing them on a list. What the hell? This doesn't seem to be based AT ALL on tourney results. There must have been so many better ways to deal with this. Of course, since there was a previous tier list, you are very much influenced by it and give ratings to character according to his rank (and probably because you are too lazy to study each and EVERY case more closely). Take Captain Falcon, for example. He may suck as a character, and probably most of you SBR-B members have voted 1 on him just because of that. But look at his tourney results in the character rankings thread. They look pretty good (C Rank). I'm not saying he should go up a tier or anything, although he could still gain a few places. And gaining a few places only could have been possible if you somehow fused character quality AND tourney results. Well, after all, that's exactly what you are going to say to me: "We took tourney results into account! What, are you stupid?" O.K, but you only seem to have done that with only the top, high, and part of the middle tier (Falco, Marth, Diddy, Olimar, Peach, ZSS and many others have gone up thanks to great results). The bottom tier seems to be abandoned to their fate (except Link). I don't want any ******** comments like "oh Falcon, Jiggs and Ganon suck". Yes, they do, but at least reward them if they're making such a great effort. Maybe not Jigglypuff and Ganondorf, but Captain Falcon, guys, come on! Sonic could have gone up a lot higher than just 2 places. I could make a list of all the wrong cases in this list.
O.K then... My rant at page 23 has gone completely unnoticed, so I will post it again, since I'm a little *****...
 

JesiahTEG

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Looking at that rant, I can completely see why no one bothered to respond to it.

M2K has told me privately otherwise.
 

momochuu

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Needs seperation and commas. I read like 2 sentences then gave up.
 

•Col•

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that is a regulare thing o__O do you have never seen something like this?

Look at the tio brackets for example.

There are a lot of people who are placed somewhere at the exact same place.

You could say Lucario and Olimar are both 10th. and 11th.
Yeah... Just look at tournament placings... xD

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213898

With your logic, the people who got 49th place would've gotten 14th in this tournament. o-o
 
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