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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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Xyro77

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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Messages
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Yea so Royr is the best Marth in Texas and pretty much the USA right now and here are some vids of him as of today(feb 9, 2009) against me(samus) and my pal KaloKross(peach/meta/wolf). For those of you that have played royr in brawl or melee you know this guy is one SICK columbian. I will post only 4 links but there are multiple vids in each of the links, ok?


RoyR(marth) vs KaloKross(peach/wolf) part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ug4q37-ngA


RoyR(marth) vs KaloKross(peach/meta) part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98r4hl12_b8


RoyR(marth) vs Xyro(samus) part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ym9nXjPiqQ


RoyR(marth) vs Xyro(samus) part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdmwf1rmDms


Oh and just in case you want the thread with the videos. please go here!!!!!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220641
 
phi1ny3

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
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in my SCIENCE! lab
speeding sonic said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeYSU...e=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my2wmGf5-Lk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loxydO3Hskw

this is a more updated version on my marth
Click to expand...
Hi again, Speeding Sonic! (yes, I frequent the marth boards too from time to time).
Wow, you have a pretty decent marth, certainly have all the spacing basics down!
A few things:
-Your opponents seemed relatively unskilled (TL didn't take nearly enough advantage of his projectile game/zair and bair, and kirby didn't use his tilts/low % strings much if at all).
-Good opponents will shield a lot of what you will do if you're not careful, and then usually will grab. This makes your fairs harder to land damage with (so you'll need to learn to space, pressure, and FF more fairs and nairs with marth). Other than that, you had a good feel for the stage, knew when to use your shield, so I'd say you've made yourself a good start with marth.
 
Freezewish

Freezewish

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
827
I'll check out Royr's vids when i get home. Glad he's still repping marth. ^_^

Ck are you going to Katsucon this weekend? I may be going.
 
Pr0phetic

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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Wow RoyR had some crazy moves in their, pivot grab tech chase, SH DB1 to shieldbreaker wa spretty good too. I lke how he uses his DB and grabs to refresh all his moves in time for the opponents kill percentage, I use to try to do that. Eh I have to go work on my Marth now.
 
Remzi

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
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FatJackieChan said:
I know I am not very good, but I haven't been competitive for very long. I am the Green Marth. I have more videos but will need a new memory card for my camera to get them on here, sorry about the quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM8IB7esZcQ
Click to expand...
Allright, no offense but you have a lot of work to do on that Marth. Here are some things I noticed.

-Very Predictable Approaches
-Too much shield breaker
-Too much fsmash
-At 0:21 you had him in a position where you could easily gimp him, but you uaired him instead giving thim the positioning to recover.
-0:37- Don't try to go out that far to edgeguard, Marths recovery is bad.
-Never sit too long on the ledge without invincibility frames. Especially when you are trying to edgehog.
-Stop rolling into edges, or even rolling that much at all. It got you hurt several times.
-Finish your dancing blades, better players will have no problem punishing you if you keep that habit. that DB to Fsmash will fail 9/10 times
-It doesn't seem like you are even trying to space at times...
-Again you went out too far to edgeguard and died...
-Your primary defensive option should never be to roll. Shield a LOT more. Did you even shield once?

GL on improving your Marth!
 
F

FatJackieChan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
229
Thanks, this wasn't my best game, I have another one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeq9sBWDQ5g&feature=channel_page , and I have to import one more. I realized after watching this a few times that not only are my approaches predictable, but I have to stick to my moves to much. This match specifically had too much shield breaker, I realized during this match that I can actually do that. I believe that I could have gimped him, at 0:21 but how. If it was with dair, I couldn't because I have work to do on that too. At :037 I agree that that was a bad idea. I have only been competitive for a month, so I haven't quite broken my rolling habit yet. I was testing the sideB thing, it doesn't work. Please watch the other matches and report on them too. Thanks!
 
DonkeyKongUh

DonkeyKongUh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
63
Before you watch and flame read this...

I main ddd and am using marth to cover bad matchups

Looking back at this game it seems like i had trouble accepting the fact that marths ftilt doesn't go as far as d3s... I also see that i didn't use NEARLY enough dancing blade and would probably want to sub many of my ftilts for that.

On another note I play with tap jump off, and have always been trying to force myself to put it on. Is tap jump on a complete must (so u can use up B OoS)?

I also noticed i didn't do much edgeguarding... getting used to marth's recovery is going to be tough... And yeah i did ledge atk like 20 times i gotta stop that... What are some good options from the ledge?

anyways.... FLAME ON!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_RprDNxz5Q

I'll get some better ones later.
 
Scott!

Scott!

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
1,575
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The Forest Temple
DonkeyKongUh said:
Before you watch and flame read this...

I main ddd and am using marth to cover bad matchups

Looking back at this game it seems like i had trouble accepting the fact that marths ftilt doesn't go as far as d3s... I also see that i didn't use NEARLY enough dancing blade and would probably want to sub many of my ftilts for that.

On another note I play with tap jump off, and have always been trying to force myself to put it on. Is tap jump on a complete must (so u can use up B OoS)?

I also noticed i didn't do much edgeguarding... getting used to marth's recovery is going to be tough... And yeah i did ledge atk like 20 times i gotta stop that... What are some good options from the ledge?

anyways.... FLAME ON!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_RprDNxz5Q

I'll get some better ones later.
Click to expand...
Don't worry; no one will flame you here as long as you ask nicely. This thread is all about helping, so don't worry about being noobesque or anything. That said, to the video...

So, the first thing you did was walk up to G&W and essentially let him hit you. It's a habit I fal into a lot, but it really isn't that great of an idea to do the double fair on a short hop as an approach. Otherwise, this'll happen.

00:16- 00:19: Was that just five sidesteps in a row?

Okay, I'm seeing a lot of turtle **** here. Gotta watch out for that. Space and punish, since Marth is darn good at that. Also, throwing out a counter at the turtle on a rare occasion is not a bad idea. If nothing else, it'll discourage further turtles at least a little, and might put them a little bit off their game.

You mentioned overusing Ftilt. I didn't notice that it was too terribly overused or used too wrongly. Though, you then said you need more DB. This is true. However, DB is a punisher, and Ftilt is more for keeping the opponent away. Just replacing one with the other is probably not a great idea.

Other than that, put tap jump on, definitely. That's my two cents; hopefully others have more, since i"m not a pro. I just know what I'm doing.
 
BBoyindo

BBoyindo

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Messages
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FatJackieChan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76caHhd0Ow&feature=channel_page
Yay, third Marth ditto.
Click to expand...
Well, there i go again:)

0:6-0:10 Random SB yay. You approach with fair, but you didn't weave it and if he shielded, you could've gotten punished. You immediately follow up fair with F-smash, but he is on the ledge, don't try it near the edge. Again you got lucky and you didn't get punished. You shield his get up attack and punish with down smash, why? You could've better shield grabbed and thrown him off stage, of DB him off stage, or even DS him off stage, D-smash is unsafe as well.

Rest of the match was ok.

0:30-0:34 He is sidestepping, and you fling out a f-smash first. Always go for db when he is side stepping, your F-smash could've been punished. After that you do use DB, but it could have been earlier.

0: 35-0:38 Don't go too aggressive on your edgeguarding, a fair should be enough, don't always go for another one. After a fair, you can simply wait for you opponent to come back and hit him out again, or start a ledge trap, or anything else that works.

0:42 You have invincibility frames, which means you can pressure him without being punished. It's not always the best option to just throw out a F-smash, cause if it missed, half of your invincibility is up and your opponent is gone. Pressure him and punish his reactions

0:51-0:54 should have stayed on the ledge but mistakes can happen:) But then, when your opponent is doing a getup animation, you roll to the ledge. Why? Why didn't you take your time to go stand at a position where you could have punished all his options. It's called ledge trapping. Rolling towards the edge put both of you in a bad position, while you could have put him in a bad position, and yourself in a good one. You get the kill, but that was luck.

1:00 You stand at the ledge, which basically makes it incredibly easy for your opponent to pressure you (which he doesn't however). Then you jump off the stage, making it even easier for him, but you are lucky that your opponent doesn't think.

1:02 D-smash again.

1:13 Your opponent charges a smash attack for nothing, you await it and punish him...with dash attack? Dash attack should be avoided as much as possible (until at higher level play, where there are some uses for it) . Punishing with Dancing Blade is the way to go.

1:14-1:17 You swat him away with a fair, which basically means death to him already, but again you go for another fair and just barely make it to the stage. One fair is enough, from the you could have returned and further edgeguarded him if needed.

1:17-1:22 Again you stay at the edge, putting yourself in a bad position, and this time you do get punished. Try and avoid the edges if your opponent has invincibility frames, unless you have 6 jumps of course, but yeah Marth doesn't.

1:22-1:26 You just fall right into him and he easily juggles you. You could have stalled with DB, move to a side, or just airdoge. You counter, but remember that counter has horrible after lag, airdodge.

1:33 He F-smashes, way out of your range, and you counter? Even if you were inside his range, your counter would have been too late. It's called shield, and if you would have had your shield up you could have punished him easily.

The rest of the match was good play on your part.

To summarize:
More shield
Less counter
More DB
No Dash attack
D-smash for killing
DB for punishing
As Marth, the edge should be avoided, especially if your opponent is Marth and has invincibility frames
Calm down when edgeguarding
And lastly, Don't jump into the ****:).

EDIT: I forgot to mention, play better people. FireLordOzaie is very predictable, and he doesn't put much thought into his game, and of course the things i said when i critiqued him:)
 
OniTheWolf

OniTheWolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
396
Location
Miami, FL
My Marth needs alot of criticism:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TXCXzDUJXE&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4ALILy-xQ&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIO7UmYZgkw&fmt=18

As you can see, I fail at using Dancing blade. I can't tip that well. I really don't main Marth. I just use him to cover bad match ups, and plus, he is very fun to play. I play with tap jump off. and use the C-Stick for most of my aerials except DAir and NAir. I've seen that this technique/combo has worked on several people: FThrow to SH Dancing blade then FAir. Is it a good technique our is it garbage?
 
F

FatJackieChan

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Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
229
BBoyindo said:
Well, there i go again:)

0:6-0:10 Random SB yay. You approach with fair, but you didn't weave it and if he shielded, you could've gotten punished. You immediately follow up fair with F-smash, but he is on the ledge, don't try it near the edge. Again you got lucky and you didn't get punished. You shield his get up attack and punish with down smash, why? You could've better shield grabbed and thrown him off stage, of DB him off stage, or even DS him off stage, D-smash is unsafe as well.

Rest of the match was ok.

0:30-0:34 He is sidestepping, and you fling out a f-smash first. Always go for db when he is side stepping, your F-smash could've been punished. After that you do use DB, but it could have been earlier.

0: 35-0:38 Don't go too aggressive on your edgeguarding, a fair should be enough, don't always go for another one. After a fair, you can simply wait for you opponent to come back and hit him out again, or start a ledge trap, or anything else that works.

0:42 You have invincibility frames, which means you can pressure him without being punished. It's not always the best option to just throw out a F-smash, cause if it missed, half of your invincibility is up and your opponent is gone. Pressure him and punish his reactions

0:51-0:54 should have stayed on the ledge but mistakes can happen:) But then, when your opponent is doing a getup animation, you roll to the ledge. Why? Why didn't you take your time to go stand at a position where you could have punished all his options. It's called ledge trapping. Rolling towards the edge put both of you in a bad position, while you could have put him in a bad position, and yourself in a good one. You get the kill, but that was luck.

1:00 You stand at the ledge, which basically makes it incredibly easy for your opponent to pressure you (which he doesn't however). Then you jump off the stage, making it even easier for him, but you are lucky that your opponent doesn't think.

1:02 D-smash again.

1:13 Your opponent charges a smash attack for nothing, you await it and punish him...with dash attack? Dash attack should be avoided as much as possible (until at higher level play, where there are some uses for it) . Punishing with Dancing Blade is the way to go.

1:14-1:17 You swat him away with a fair, which basically means death to him already, but again you go for another fair and just barely make it to the stage. One fair is enough, from the you could have returned and further edgeguarded him if needed.

1:17-1:22 Again you stay at the edge, putting yourself in a bad position, and this time you do get punished. Try and avoid the edges if your opponent has invincibility frames, unless you have 6 jumps of course, but yeah Marth doesn't.

1:22-1:26 You just fall right into him and he easily juggles you. You could have stalled with DB, move to a side, or just airdoge. You counter, but remember that counter has horrible after lag, airdodge.

1:33 He F-smashes, way out of your range, and you counter? Even if you were inside his range, your counter would have been too late. It's called shield, and if you would have had your shield up you could have punished him easily.

The rest of the match was good play on your part.

To summarize:
More shield
Less counter
More DB
No Dash attack
D-smash for killing
DB for punishing
As Marth, the edge should be avoided, especially if your opponent is Marth and has invincibility frames
Calm down when edgeguarding
And lastly, Don't jump into the ****:).

EDIT: I forgot to mention, play better people. FireLordOzaie is very predictable, and he doesn't put much thought into his game, and of course the things i said when i critiqued him:)
Click to expand...
I really don't have too many people. I think my brother may be the best (tied with me, but with less mistakes) that I know. Luckily, until yesterday, he refused to play Brawl. I got him to play for 15 minutes yesterday, and we played for at least 4 hours. Now he will play just to be useful (and of course when our Xbox comes back I have to play as much Rockband and Guitar Hero as he did Brawl (I really don't like those games :()) Currently my community has only 4 people + tournaments. So if I can play better people I will.
 
G

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Bay Area, CA
OniTheWolf said:
My Marth needs alot of criticism:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TXCXzDUJXE&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4ALILy-xQ&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIO7UmYZgkw&fmt=18

As you can see, I fail at using Dancing blade. I can't tip that well. I really don't main Marth. I just use him to cover bad match ups, and plus, he is very fun to play. I play with tap jump off. and use the C-Stick for most of my aerials except DAir and NAir. I've seen that this technique/combo has worked on several people: FThrow to SH Dancing blade then FAir. Is it a good technique our is it garbage?
Click to expand...
Maybe somebody will give you a play by play but for now:

Less smashing
Less DB1 -> followup attempts
Play more reactively. You miss a lot of punishment opportunities because you're busy whiffing attacks of your own
Throw combos are much more reliable and much safer than smash attacks a low percentage.
Gimp better.
 
Pr0phetic

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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Messages
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Megamioflust said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQEdg9Ew51I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D13FTEsdSAI

Okay. How about now?
Click to expand...
Critique: Megamioflust

0:01 - You roll away while Samus is on the ledge, why? Your in a better position, and oyu gave up control.

0:03 - Dude -_-

0:12 - Ah what a bad roll, luckily you didn't get punised for it. it'd be ebst to follow up with DB right here.

0:15 - Stop jumping into the **** please.

0:16 - You could've mashed out by now 0.o

0:24 - I can already tell, you have a bad rolling habit.

1:05 - Ah, shoudl've DB'ed. He takes a stock.

1:11 - He shields, and you jump away? Stop playing so defensively, its Samus!!!

1:55 - Whiffed Fsmash, wha amde yo uthink it would reach?

2:55 - He rolls and you shield? **** dat boi wit sum DB!!!

3:56 - You got over anxious, and went to far under the lip. You should've dropped down and back a littlemore and oyu
coulda recovered. Hell, even stage spiked!

4:15 - Invicibility frames - none. WHY ARE TOU WHIFFING ATTACKS???

You know ,your Marth is pretty good. At times I saw utter ****, 50+ damage combos. But then, it's like you jumped into the ****, and did stupid things. Learn your options, such as when to DB and when to DS OoS. Also, review the match-ups. Finally, you roll way too much. Marth's roll sucks. Otherwise, good stuff =]
 
DonkeyKongUh

DonkeyKongUh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
63
DonkeyKongUh said:
Before you watch and flame read this...

I main ddd and am using marth to cover bad matchups

Looking back at this game it seems like i had trouble accepting the fact that marths ftilt doesn't go as far as d3s... I also see that i didn't use NEARLY enough dancing blade and would probably want to sub many of my ftilts for that.

On another note I play with tap jump off, and have always been trying to force myself to put it on. Is tap jump on a complete must (so u can use up B OoS)?

I also noticed i didn't do much edgeguarding... getting used to marth's recovery is going to be tough... And yeah i did ledge atk like 20 times i gotta stop that... What are some good options from the ledge?

anyways.... FLAME ON!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_RprDNxz5Q

I'll get some better ones later.
Click to expand...
DonkeyKongUh said:
Heres all of um

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_RprDNxz5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqA2Z9NuXKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kllkOOECWrY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RmItMnk2P0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8f0vRFmhds

First one Warmup johns ;)

Second one's alright

Third one I started to play better

Fourth ones mah best

Fifth ones a bit choppy at the end. OK


Yeah i'm not sure which one you want to look at...
Click to expand...

bam
uber
monster
pwnage

lol fanceh bump
 
Pr0phetic

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
3,322
Location
Syracuse, NY
Critique: DonkeyKongUh


0:07: Lol?

0:18 - Stop rolling so much, luckily the Wi-Fi lag threw off that Dsmash.

0:33 - Two aerial DBs? Stop.

0:38 - Ok i'm startng to find this a common problem. Since this is Wi-Fi its excusable, but stop playing so campy. marth beats GnW with offensive pressure.

0:42 - Punished your roll bad.

0:57 - Refer to 0:33.

1:09 Your to low for him to try and chse you, why would you whiff an Nair? You get edgeguarded.

1:41 - Either finish your DB, or shieldbreaker. You eat a Dsmash.

2:13 - Jeez man, jumping all into the ****...

2:18 - Why did you let him return so safely? PRESSURE!!!

2:21 - Jumped into his Uair, and you get punished. You lose a stock.

3:15 - LMAO, you had it man -_- Stop trying to be flashy, it was game.

Wow, what a way to lose a game. Your Marth is decent, however you should go review the match-ups. Offensive pressure *****, I mean ***** GnW. You constantly let him punish you. Speaking of, watch your opponent, because your jumping into the **** quite often. Oh, and go practice appending Uair to your game, I don't think i've seen it once.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,193
Location
Bergen County
FatJackieChan said:
Please critique BOTH Marths. If you have to do one, do the White one. (Same videos as before, but my friend wants critiques too.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM8IB7esZcQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeq9sBWDQ5g&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76caHhd0Ow&feature=channel
Click to expand...
I took the second match:

Anyway just want to throw this out there but realize that zoning a character with equal range with you is not going to work.

But both of you need to learn how to use the shield and effectively punish out of it. Anytime either of you was hit with a dair shows how you lack shield usage. And 1:49 your friend shields an f-smash and punishes with f-smash, next time immediately shield drop and run > DB.

You guys need to learn to DI. Anytime your opponent does DB down variation you should be able to punish by DI'ing up and then DS'ing or whatever.

Both of you need to learn the spacing of your moves. There was segments of time when either of you were throwing out f-smashes and SB's and miss. If your going to randomly throw out the move then please make sure to hit with them. Also you guys didn't punish effectively most of the time.

Your friend especially needs to stop countering randomly. There is no thought process evident behind it and its really killing his game. Example: Gets edge hogged at 1:40 and dies.

You guys lack a complete grasp of basics and as a result are way too reckless, throwing out your laggy moves, not using your best options, etc., but unfortunately neither of you guys are effectively punishing such mistakes so unless one of you starts to do so, changing such habits will be difficult.
 
F

FatJackieChan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
229
3xSwords said:
I took the second match:

Anyway just want to throw this out there but realize that zoning a character with equal range with you is not going to work.

But both of you need to learn how to use the shield and effectively punish out of it. Anytime either of you was hit with a dair shows how you lack shield usage. And 1:49 your friend shields an f-smash and punishes with f-smash, next time immediately shield drop and run > DB.

You guys need to learn to DI. Anytime your opponent does DB down variation you should be able to punish by DI'ing up and then DS'ing or whatever.

Both of you need to learn the spacing of your moves. There was segments of time when either of you were throwing out f-smashes and SB's and miss. If your going to randomly throw out the move then please make sure to hit with them. Also you guys didn't punish effectively most of the time.

Your friend especially needs to stop countering randomly. There is no thought process evident behind it and its really killing his game. Example: Gets edge hogged at 1:40 and dies.

You guys lack a complete grasp of basics and as a result are way too reckless, throwing out your laggy moves, not using your best options, etc., but unfortunately neither of you guys are effectively punishing such mistakes so unless one of you starts to do so, changing such habits will be difficult.
Click to expand...
My friend was the one who wanted this (I have been critiqued a lot on these vids, my gameplay has changed, so I should get more up soon.) He will be glad to read this and will agree that your comments are correct. I have almost beaten my f-smash habit, and I usually don't use shield breaker. I punish every time (almost) with DB. My DB pops up A LOT now in matches. What is happening is one of two things.

1. I am beginning to spam DB (not as likely)
2. There are just that many times I can punish (More likely)

I didn't know that about zoning, but I am now able to do it to my friend who plays Toon Link (although I am not great at it.)
Overall my game has changed and I don't think his has. I still need to watch for these things to make sure that I don't go back to my old habits. He will be glad to read this. Thanks for the help!
 
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