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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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Shockdrake

Shockdrake

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Messages
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Location
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-Jumpman- said:
I'd like you to check the following video. http://files.filefront.com/SinoKirby+vs+JumpmanMarth/;13379663;/fileinfo.html

I know I made some mistakes, but I'd appreciate some more general tips. My style is really defensive and flawed. So thanks in advance. By the way, this was a friendly and I just started playing Marth.
Click to expand...
I felt that your critique didn't really do your video justice, so I'm going to review it too.

I'm more qualified as a ROB reviewer, and I have a decent reputation on the ROB boards, but I think I've seen enough Marth now (my second main) to say some worthwhile things here and review him accurately.

One thing before I start, I'm giving time stamps with the 7:00 timer because there's no timer in the filefront video.

Things to commend you for:

- Good spacing and weaving in at tipper fair range.
- Combobreaking Kirby grab combos. You look like you know the matchup.
- Effective short hop mindgames.
- Appropriate use of SHFFfairs, and fair > jab/ftilt for spacing.
- Capitalizing on platform weaknesses (SHFFfair > hyphen smash at 6:36 left).
- Good crossover at 6:30 left.

Small Things to correct/improve on:

- Dthrow not bthrow. Less lag. Are you bthrowing out of reflex from another character? It was only once, so I don't know if you usually do that.

- Don't chase off the right edge of Frigate Part 1 unless you can recover without UpB. Frigate is one of Marth's weak stages in this respect. Characters like ROB counterpick Frigate against him just for that right side of the stage (and also for the infinite lasering from the side platforms, but that's not relevant). I'm guessing that Kirby CP'ed this stage against you. (Ex. of a bad chase at 5:37 left)

- When chasing high offstage, bair has more reach. Approach with Bair only when he's high though (not as in intoxicated). Approach with fair when he's lower. Bair has almost no hitbox at marth's feet height. Example at 4:52 left, approach with fair instead. You probably approached with bair on instinct because you knew about my first line regarding bair's reach, I think.

- Dtilt after your SHFFfair instead of jabbing when you're the one on higher ground (like at 4:26 left). A jab would probably barely connect at that height.

Bigger Things to correct/improve on:

- Use Dtilt or Counter on Kirby (and other characters) where there's no ledge and he's underneath the stage. Example at 5:42 left. The lack of a ledge may be bad for you, but it can hurt him too. Kirby can only UpB or jump back on stage if he's below the platform. What he does depends on how many jumps he has left, and you can tell that by the sound. Nevertheless, what you did at that time was just as good, shielding the UpB and UpB'ing him out of his lag, so I can't really say anything bad about that. I can say, however, that if he moved his UpB back, your UpB might not have reached. Countering his definite UpB would have been safer.

- You follow up your connected fairs with jabs on instinct. Dtilt and DB are just as useful after a connected fair, and are probably better than jabs overall. I can understand using jabs against a small character like Kirby though, because fair may pop him up too high for dtilt to hit. But DB would hurt him pretty bad. DB isn't very much in your game at all. Your game is reflective of kadaj and neo's games. You rely very little on DB for punishment. There's an example of a time begging for a DB at 5:26 left. You used a dash attack there after your little combo because you weren't sure what to press, maybe. DB racks really good damage and usually gives you time and space to set up your zoning again.

Grabs aren't really in your game either. Well, actually they definitely are, but not in the case I'm about to describe. You do a lot of short-hop games. When you're doing your SH games, Kirby, and most other people, will shield on instinct. This happened at 3:04 left. You dash attacked there and it was almost definitely just a mistake and you knew it. But this is the only video I've seen of you... maybe you actually weren't sure what to do so you decided to just do "something"? I did think you were going to grab, but you didn't. If you weren't sure what to do, a grab after mindgaming their shield out is a very good development... of course.

After Kirby's first stock, be aware that he's aiming to even it up and hit you with a kill move (fsmash, hammer, bair) as soon as possible. After killing a stock, play as hit-and-run as you can. I believe you ledge-hopped an fair into his face.

Trying to stall with DB at 6:11 does not work. They say DB is good for stalling, but in most situations, it really just gives your opponent more time to hit you. It doesn't stall you in midair long enough, and even if your opponent whiffs his attack due to your stall, in many cases, he can still recover soon enough to capitalize on the weak spot beneath you. Even DB-stall-avoiding a DK Usmash gives the DK enough time to utilt you.

You said you just started playing Marth, but you must have played very well on your previous character. It's a very decent Marth.

That's all I have.

Oh, last thing. These are just stupid mistakes right?
- the fsmash within the first 10 seconds, probably meant as an fair?
- random UpB at 5:47 left with no chance of hitting him.
- usmash at 5:14 left
- dair at 4:38 left
- ledge grab at 4:28 left
- DB'ing the rock transformation at 4:02 left
 
-Jumpman-

-Jumpman-

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Messages
2,854
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I made some mistakes. Like random dash attacks when I wanted to fair or whatever.

Thanks for the advice, I'm sure it will help me out. I'll watch the vid again and look at what I did wrong (again).
 
Shockdrake

Shockdrake

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
65
Location
New Jersey/New York
SSD said:
friendlies i recorded from a tournament this saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C61y1ssr7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMkLas3Oqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s3L6XRJS6M
Click to expand...
I watched the Snake video.

Approach! This was most noticeable in the beginning of the match. Marth is most effective against Snake when he's in close range and able to punish shielded tilts/jabs. Pressure him at tip length with dtilt. Dtilt outranges all of his ground moves except the 2nd hit of ftilt. Unless he's spamming ftilt on you, you should be able to poke him with dtilt before he can poke you. If you're in a dash and want to dtilt, shield for a split second to cancel your dash, and then use your dtilt. Alternatively, walk. You have all your options open when you walk, and you can just shield if you're afraid of the grenades.

You're definitely afraid of the grenades. Don't full hop. Don't use random aerials throughout the match. You're probably using those random aerials as a wall of sorts, but the only reason why you would set up a wall of attacks against snake is if you're afraid of a snake dash. However, when you can't attack due to grenades, he can't attack with snake dash either. Grenades take 6 seconds to explode. 6 seconds is a very long time. Run straight past them and do what you have to do.

If you start using dtilt, know the dtilt trap. If he shields or spotdodges, pull out a dancing blade. DB wreaks spotdodgers, and if people shield a dtilt, they tend to drop the shield to retaliate, which is when they'll get hit with the DB. Keep in mind, however, that if they get used to fighting Marth, they may hold their shield. Until you get this trap down, however, your normal opponents won't be conditioned to shielding your DBs too much. Your game is missing a lot of DB.

If you're at a tourney and they know the Marth matchup, they will hold their shield when they can. If you commit to your DB, go for the green version and hope to shieldpoke. To be safer, just stop the DB.

If the dtilt connects, depending on %, a chasing DB can usually hit them and rack up damage well.

DB more! When he's suffering from lag or when you just shielded an attack. DB does damage, refreshes your moves, and knocks them away so that you can set up your zoning again. At 0:59, he missed an fsmash. You tried to fsmash him back. It would have been better to dash in and DB. DB comes out in 4 frames and has decent reach. another example at 2:40 of a good time to DB.

Don't full hop too much. Short hops and fastfalling aerials lets you do whatever you want when you land, since your aerials autocancel (not bair or dair though). Short hop and fastfall an fair. This gives you control over when to let the fair out and where exactly you hit (spacing). You might be full hopping because of the grenades. Ignore them. If full hopping is your regular style, you're giving snake a huge advantage. Marth gets wreaked from below by snake's utilt. It has insane range and you have no attacks to get past it. Full hops might let Snake utilt you. Marth dies at 100% from an utilt.

Fastfall more. You have a shield when you're grounded. Fastfalling reduces the amount of time when you're vulnerable in the air.

Ledge recovery
Nair pokes shields better in a ledgehop if you're going to use an aerial to get back on stage. You almost always ledgejump into an fair from the ledge. That exposes your weak bottom to utilt. I've talked about the bad parts of full hopping before though. Ledgehop back on or just regular getup if he's far away.

Very nice DS at 1:55.

When snake is hanging on the ledge, he should have a super hard time coming back up.
If you stand slightly away from the edge and stand ready to shield, he has only very very few options.

He can:
- Ledgeattack. This is punishable by just shieldgrabbing and throwing him back out. He may try his chances at the ledge again or cypher up, in which case you either get to ledgeguard again or hit him out of his cypher for free damage. You can also DS him OOS if he's at KO percents after you shield the attack.
- Ledgehop dair. This is punishable in the same way as a ledgeattack. Just shield and DS OOS or shieldgrab. Same story.
- Ledgehop nair. UpB OOS for this. Nair pokes your shield well, so don't chance it.
- Ledgehop Airdodge. Usmash OOS. or Dsmash. You can also turn around and grab and dthrow him back out.
- Roll back on stage. Just turn around and grab. Dthrow him back out.
- Ledgejump and try to evade punishment (usually by airdodging). You can take this opportunity to hyphen smash him out of the air or start a juggle trap.

You can DTILT HIM when he's hanging on the ledge on almost all the neutral stages. This means that he is pressured to do something fast or get dtilted. If he just hangs there, dtilt him and follow up. He'll probably use his cypher.

Juggle trap bait game. When Snake's in the air, he can't use most of his normal game (Snake dash, tilts, etc.). Snakes almost always airdodge when you get close with your uair. Expect the airdodge and fall alongside him until the AD ends, then uair him and reset the situation. If you don't think he'll airdodge, just uair. Also, remember that he can't airdodge in the initial frames of his cypher, but when he can, and you get close, he will almost definitely airdodge. Just fall with him and hit him when he's done with the AD. Example at 1:31, another at 3:08.

Figure out a getaway plan on a new respawn. You stood and shielded at 1:56, and he just grabbed you. Neo, for example, has a very conspicuous getaway plan that is nevertheless effective. He runs under the opponent as they drop and then he full hops slightly backwards and uses his double jump to either go left or right, depending on how his opponent is reacting to his first jump. By the time the fakeout is over, the opponent's invincibility is done and the game can continue without Marth having that disadvantage. You can be creative with getaway plans of your own. Just don't do the roll-to-his-other-side routine that a lot of new players like to use. You'll probably just get smashed. If you think he won't expect it though, use it.

Don't depend on fsmash and counter.

At 2:18, you just dodge onto the stage. When you're high up, you can try faking the opponent out. For example, continue moving right as you were, but then air dodge and start falling left.

You can also stall with DB to avoid the ledgehog. Just don't fall so far that DS won't get you high enough anymore.

Punish shielded ftilts. Shield drop and DB.

When you're coming back to the edge, if Snake launches a mortar and then hugs to gimp you, remember that you'd rather get hit by the mortar than get gimped.

Also remember that if you hit the mortar with any attack, it won't do damage to you. you can test this for yourself if you want. Just attack the mortar if it's near you. Dair it while high in the sky. You avoid the mortar damage and your lag is unpunishable because you're so high.

You have a habit of wasting your 2nd jump while you're getting hit out. You might be doing this to momentum cancel, but most of the time you don't need to momentum cancel, since you won't die anyway. Conserving your 2nd jump is important for stalling. The Snake strategy of launching a mortar and then hugging for a gimp doesn't work if you can stall really well, and 2nd jump lets you stall for a very very long time. Don't waste it. Don't forget when you have it. At 2:45, you could have 2nd jumped to let the mortar fall. You wasted it at 3:35. If you pay attention to a lot of good marths, you'll notice that they use their second jump heavily as a stall. When they're hit out, they just fair and fastfall. Basically, try to save that jump.

You only approach with fairs. Some suggestions for approaches:
- Run up and shield. If he attacks you, punish him with DB. If he shields too, just grab.
- Run up, shield cancel your dash, then space a dtilt. Dtilt trap.
- Walk forward and be ready to shield. Get in the "Marth position" (in his face but out of range).
- Poke with SHfairs. Move back if you whiff, or he'll ftilt you.

Mix it up.

Start DI'ing the ftilts if you aren't doing it yet. When you get hit by the first hit, you should instinctively jam your stick up, at the very least. Ftilt1 is almost always followed by ftilt2. You can avoid death for longer this way.

Shieldgrab more. Grabs can chain on Snake at low %'s, especially if they don't expect it. Marth shines when he gets Snake off the stage, so an fthrow > fthrow > fair is really good for Marth. Grab punches refresh moves. You can also uthrow snake to start a juggle.

Have a nice read. =D
 
SSD

SSD

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^ thank you very much for all of that, I'll try to remember it until the next tournament, especially the dancing blade part.

Oh, and I'll have your videos soon. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten.
 
Miles.

Miles.

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
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Snowponit City
Hi.

I main PT, I feel Marth does well against Wario, and Wario is a bad match up for PT, so there you go. I have been trying to learn Marth/Fox as secondaries.



These aren't my best matches, I dont think matches where I play really well will help me get a good critic.

So go ahead and please point out all my flaws and weak points for improvement.

Thanks!

Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8R4buGlcHg
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twYmIfowZKU
Match 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wYmIwytS58
 
A

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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PokemonMasterIRL said:
Hi.

I main PT, I feel Marth does well against Wario, and Wario is a bad match up for PT, so there you go. I have been trying to learn Marth/Fox as secondaries.



These aren't my best matches, I dont think matches where I play really well will help me get a good critic.

So go ahead and please point out all my flaws and weak points for improvement.

Thanks!

Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8R4buGlcHg
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twYmIfowZKU
Match 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wYmIwytS58
Click to expand...
To many nair not enough SH. I would have used more fair's and dtilts. He kept letting Wario get over him. That's what I saw I'm not the best player here but I'm sure a better player can give a more detailed breakdown.
 
Pr0phetic

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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May 11, 2008
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Hey shockdrake, good critiquing, but you don't have to tell them the good they did, they'll figure that out by just knowing the bad. =]

PkmnTrainerIRL, im going to critique your in-depth later.
 
G

GPEternity

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Joined
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Messages
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Bay Area, CA
PokemonMasterIRL said:
Hi.

I main PT, I feel Marth does well against Wario, and Wario is a bad match up for PT, so there you go. I have been trying to learn Marth/Fox as secondaries.



These aren't my best matches, I dont think matches where I play really well will help me get a good critic.

So go ahead and please point out all my flaws and weak points for improvement.

Thanks!

Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8R4buGlcHg
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twYmIfowZKU
Match 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wYmIwytS58
Click to expand...
Less nair
More SH. Unless you're trying to chase him off the ledge or high above the stage you have no reason to FH, ever. Marth's reach is longest in front of him, FH puts you above him where Marth is weakest. You would have been ***** if he started watching for the FH's and came up from under you with uairs and dairs especially since you'd be lagging from the whiffed fairs. Space with FF'd fairs which will allow you to shield/dodge/attack quickly. Not only is it safer for you, but you'll be able to get more hits because you're using the full swing and not the bottom half when you FH. It also lets you follow up on hits with additional pressure to get him off balance. SHFF with marth is vital to his game. A marth without perfect short hopping skills will probably never even be decent.

Also, less Dair, there are usually much better options.

With the grab release on wario, you can use a lot of other alternatives to follow up for damage, and save the usmash for kill percentages, or fsmash if you grab him close to the side.
 
Yttuty

Yttuty

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Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
197
Location
México
Hello everyone

I'm not new on SB but I don't usually post so I guess that noone knows me...
I'm yttuty ( aka ".jpg" ) im from México and my main is obviously marth and I would really like you to critique my marth.

Btw, you can also check out other vids of me on my account ( youtube.com/yttuty ) I have melee/ brawl videos + my combo vid trailer

Here are some matches of my marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srkJRtdAXuw ( february )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfptdt4RRNA ( this one is pretty old but I uploaded it like 2 weeks ago )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8EByyTrgA ( also pretty old )
 
G

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Bay Area, CA
Yttuty said:
Hello everyone

I'm not new on SB but I don't usually post so I guess that noone knows me...
I'm yttuty ( aka ".jpg" ) im from México and my main is obviously marth and I would really like you to critique my marth.

Btw, you can also check out other vids of me on my account ( youtube.com/yttuty ) I have melee/ brawl videos + my combo vid trailer

Here are some matches of my marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srkJRtdAXuw ( february )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfptdt4RRNA ( this one is pretty old but I uploaded it like 2 weeks ago )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8EByyTrgA ( also pretty old )
Click to expand...
VS Trap

:17 a footstool dair would have made my day here. Not quite certain why you baired here though. From the position a fair would probably have been a wiser choice.

:18 DS stage spike

:36 short hop uair to draw the airdodge earlier, then you can follow up with a grounded title.

1:28 counter fail

1:41 watch your recoveries, don’t just ledgehop into an attack you need to be patient

2:13 DS OoS is usually for when you block attacks, risk : reward is simply not worth it otherwise for snake at 85 in the center of the field.


VS RUbas

:15 im gonna say you meant to pivot DB or grab and failed the input because you got punished for dash lag.

:28-:34 Shieldbreaker if it doesn’t break the shield should be followed with more pressure because they cannot safely block. In this case, you let peach get into an offensive groove.

:39 I love tippers. The hollow thud always sounds so satisfying.

1:16 your impatience with recovering gets you killed in what was shaping up to be a 3 stock.

2:17-2:22 this entire edguard sequence is all fair/fsmash close to the ledge. Roll or ledgedrop ds would not have been expected.

VS Masv

:20 ownt

:39 I may have attempted a DS instead of DB in this situation

1:11 marth has a jab lock does he not? Wouldn’t hurt to attempt it off a missed tech as it guarantees the fsmash. Rather than simply throwing the fmsash out for a while and hoping they don’t get up at that moment

3:07 read like a book because you spotdodged it the first time. DS OoS at that range instead to hit him before hes done charging
3:35 personally when people trip in front of me I go for a fresh smash, but to each his own. You did miss an opportunity there though

3:42 you guys are even on last stock and starting to build in damage, DS OoS or DB for some guaranteed punish, gambling for an unlikely smash isn’t the best move.

3:52 your tendancy to ledgehop excessively results in you taking unnecessary damage at a dangerous percentage. You had a great start to this match and almost lost it.

All around an excellent marth, nice gimps, good pressure, nice reactions. You use shield breaker at pretty good times too.

You do roll excessively sometimes so watch that. Somebody will catch on one of these days. You are also impatient with your recovery on the ledge, the ledge hops are predictable, you could easily have lost due to that alone despite playing quite well.
 
Vitamin_x

Vitamin_x

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
196
Location
Contra Costa County, California
Lethargied said:
Hi guys,

I have a tournament at my school in a few weeks and I was hoping you guys could tell me some areas of improvement I need in my Marth.

Thanks a lot

These are just friendlies against my bro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZ8us0k71s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JpWhHHKpw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUoHhLxvuvc
Click to expand...
Haha, I have a tourney at my school in a few weeks too.
Anyways...

You roll way too much and smash WAY TOO MUCH.
Also, You get in really close with most of your attacks, especially fairs.

So basically:
-learn to walk/get around without rolling
-save smashes for kills omfg, if that sheik were better, you would've been punished for using them so much.
-learn to space. try to mostly stay a sword's length away from your opponent

Edit:Watching the 2nd and 3rd vids now.

-don't overuse counter
-you hurt yourself trying to spike the opponent when you could've just fair'd or bair'd.
-learn to grab



eh.
I'll let someone else give a detailed critique.
 
Yttuty

Yttuty

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
197
Location
México
GPEternity said:
VS Trap

:17 a footstool dair would have made my day here. Not quite certain why you baired here though. From the position a fair would probably have been a wiser choice.

:18 DS stage spike

:36 short hop uair to draw the airdodge earlier, then you can follow up with a grounded title.

1:28 counter fail

1:41 watch your recoveries, don’t just ledgehop into an attack you need to be patient

2:13 DS OoS is usually for when you block attacks, risk : reward is simply not worth it otherwise for snake at 85 in the center of the field.


VS RUbas

:15 im gonna say you meant to pivot DB or grab and failed the input because you got punished for dash lag.

:28-:34 Shieldbreaker if it doesn’t break the shield should be followed with more pressure because they cannot safely block. In this case, you let peach get into an offensive groove.

:39 I love tippers. The hollow thud always sounds so satisfying.

1:16 your impatience with recovering gets you killed in what was shaping up to be a 3 stock.

2:17-2:22 this entire edguard sequence is all fair/fsmash close to the ledge. Roll or ledgedrop ds would not have been expected.

VS Masv

:20 ownt

:39 I may have attempted a DS instead of DB in this situation

1:11 marth has a jab lock does he not? Wouldn’t hurt to attempt it off a missed tech as it guarantees the fsmash. Rather than simply throwing the fmsash out for a while and hoping they don’t get up at that moment

3:07 read like a book because you spotdodged it the first time. DS OoS at that range instead to hit him before hes done charging
3:35 personally when people trip in front of me I go for a fresh smash, but to each his own. You did miss an opportunity there though

3:42 you guys are even on last stock and starting to build in damage, DS OoS or DB for some guaranteed punish, gambling for an unlikely smash isn’t the best move.

3:52 your tendancy to ledgehop excessively results in you taking unnecessary damage at a dangerous percentage. You had a great start to this match and almost lost it.

All around an excellent marth, nice gimps, good pressure, nice reactions. You use shield breaker at pretty good times too.

You do roll excessively sometimes so watch that. Somebody will catch on one of these days. You are also impatient with your recovery on the ledge, the ledge hops are predictable, you could easily have lost due to that alone despite playing quite well.
Click to expand...
Thx for your crtique...

Now I'll try to not roll that much, I'll be more patient and use DS OoS more wisely.

Thx, again.

I'll upload more matches soon.
 
Lethargied

Lethargied

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Waterloo
Vitamin_x said:
Haha, I have a tourney at my school in a few weeks too.
Anyways...

You roll way too much and smash WAY TOO MUCH.
Also, You get in really close with most of your attacks, especially fairs.

So basically:
-learn to walk/get around without rolling
-save smashes for kills omfg, if that sheik were better, you would've been punished for using them so much.
-learn to space. try to mostly stay a sword's length away from your opponent

Edit:Watching the 2nd and 3rd vids now.

-don't overuse counter
-you hurt yourself trying to spike the opponent when you could've just fair'd or bair'd.
-learn to grab



eh.
I'll let someone else give a detailed critique.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot man, this was about a month ago so I'm forcing myself to break these bad habits of rolling too much and spamming smashes, but spacing I need to work on a lot more.

Thanks again and gl in your tourney
 
Schwaumlaut

Schwaumlaut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
135
BBoyindo

BBoyindo

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
672
Location
Hilversum, The Netherlands
Keys1281 said:
Pick me!! I'm honestly not the greatest Marth. Sometimes I like using him, sometimes not. He's one of the only decently-tier'ed characters I use though, so I figure I could use some help with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8KGbRMDkM&feature=related
Click to expand...
0:13 = Keep your distance
0:14-0:17 = After you grab him you Fthrow and continue into another, and another grab. That chaingrab only works like once or twice, and i think it doesn't work at all on pikachu. Go for a fair, a DB or a Fsmash after a throw at low %. There are different things that might or might not work for every character.
-Don't nair too often-
0:20 = You get another grab, and now you chain it into a Fsmash. This would have been good when you grabbed him at 0:14, but now he had too much damage. Should have gone for a fair or DB.
0:22-0:25 = Finish the combo, and don't end in the green version unless the attack is shielded or your opp is a fatty.
0:27 = You jump right into his attack, while you could have trapped him more effectively. Stay at a distance where his attacks can not hit you, and where you can punish all his options.
0:28 = Random DB, and not even finished it. And no aerial DB's
0:29 = You grab and D-throw, and you try to follow it up with dash attack. Why not dancing blade? F-throw would have been a better option her as well, since it follows up more easily.
0:31 = Random smash. Only use F-smash to punish at kill % or as at 0% after F/D-throw.

I don't want to critique the rest of the match that detailed, because it are the same mistakes you make, and they are made all the time.

So some things i noticed furthermore:

Use the right moves at the right time.
Use DS at the right moment, and OoS it is the safest.
No Dair on stage.
No B-throw.

Some matchup info:

Stay at tipper range.
Swat away his thunderjolts, or shield them. Don't F-smash them, i believe it decays your moves.
Don't fall into a thunder, it is predictable and not hard to avoid.
Sdi out of his Dsmash.

Really important stuff:

Learn to space, weave and zone. Lots of times you weren't at tipper range, and you still attacked and got punished.
Learn your throw tricks.
Use DB for punishing, and finish it.
Learn your ledge traps.
No random smashing.
Less spotdodge, if you space well, this will get less automatically.
Put Dtilt into your game.

And i think thats about it. I advise you to read Ulevo's guide on the basics of Marth, and Steel's thread on Ledge traps as well.
Good luck!
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
Thanks for the help, BBoyindo. I'll try to upload more soon, and I do need to work on my spacing at least :/
 
Yttuty

Yttuty

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
197
Location
México
Kishin said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGQ6_ZpG-1E&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGQ6_ZpG-1E&feature=channel_page

Look at all the mistakes I made.
Click to expand...
I only watched the first match...

IMHO, I think that you should be more offensive, you were camping a lot and like GPEternity said, you CAN'T camp olimar. You were just spamming fair's from a pretty far distance and that didn't help.
I suggest you to try using your DB more often, some opportunist nairs and grabs.
Do not camp, I repeat.
Be more offensive and try making pressure on your opponent.

Sry for my english, I hope you understood me.
 
Kishin

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
I got pressured because in other games I would get ***** by hyphen smashes or get shield grabbed. Then I decided to try a new approach and play defensively a bit and it worked better than before. I saw the full hope F-air to retreating F-air tactic so I decided to give my hand on that. That Olimar would **** me for the smallest mistake I made so I guess that got to me.
 
O

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
Kishin said:
I got pressured because in other games I would get ***** by hyphen smashes or get shield grabbed. Then I decided to try a new approach and play defensively a bit and it worked better than before. I saw the full hope F-air to retreating F-air tactic so I decided to give my hand on that. That Olimar would **** me for the smallest mistake I made so I guess that got to me.
Click to expand...
Ahh. Well good on ya! It's good that you try different things and try to see what works better in what situations/match ups.

Having said that, try watching your opponent and predicting so you can punish. That's really what Marth is all about: punishment. So while jumping in all gun-ho might not work, try to get a feel for what you think your opponent might throw at you and when so you can effectively punish.

E: Spaced retreating fairs are awesome.
 
Kishin

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
I actually tried a more offensive approach in a set yesterday against the guy and it actually worked well for the first stock and I soundly won. But then the next 2 matches he caught on and ***** me.
 
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