The Official Illinois / Wisconsin Brawl Power Rankings Thread! *NEW UPDATE (1-22-12)*

[Arty]

So did DLA just get put in his place?

And Ambient Horizon is a weird name lol. Hopefully you have some nickname

 

[DLA]

You can't dismiss it that easy by saying "there is no proof!" Look it up, she has the proof of all the surgery's and all the medical problems. Doctors have been studying her story for the last 30 years. We know that she had the medical problems and that there is no cure, and we know that she is now cured.

Lol no I'm not going look it up. Christians who devote their entire lives to their god should be able to present better evidence for his existence than a crackpot story about an unexplained medical anomaly that happened to one person.

According to the bible.....We know that Jesus was a real person. That he had 12 disciples. That his disciples really believed he was the son of God. That 1000s in his own life time believed he was God. That 1000s who saw him in person believed was the son of God. That his brother James believed he was God. That 1000s believed he could heal people. That 1000s who saw him in person were so sure that he was God that they would willingly get stoned for it. We have documents of many who claimed they were healed by Jesus. We know that Jesus was crucified because so many people believed he was God. After Jesus died, we know that the Romans wanted to prove that he wasn't raised from the dead. They wanted to show the dead corpse of Jesus to the public 3 days after he died so everyone would know that he was not raised from the dead. We know that after 3 days, they had no body to show.


How did one man convince so many people that he was God? How can you believe that a man heals everyone he touches, if he in fact did not heal anyone? Even if you're not a Christian, the story of Jesus is nuts. How did he do it?

Fixed. Okay, there may be some ancient documents that could be somewhat relatable to Jesus. NONE of these are contemporary with Jesus though; they were all written 2-3 generations after Jesus' death (supposedly). In other words, people who never even saw or met Jesus.

Also, if he truly was the son of god, why did the JEWS have him crucified? Why would he only convince a few hundred (maybe thousand) followers that he's the son of god? This omnipotent god promised his "chosen people" a messiah; why did he have such a hard time convincing them when he finally sent the messiah?

I'm done arguing from the bible since it's a ******** book anyways.


ALSO:

I can't possibly be the only person to find this hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

My actual brawl name is VerticalHorizon which isn't any more normal.

People just call me VH. Or VHS lol

I may just change it to Horizon. I want a new name period lol

 

[Ripple]

Oh, so now you try Lucario? :\

Will Don't Blink 3 happen before the next PR update? I wanna attend and do ok and be an honorable mention by defeating all of our random character mains :D

maybe lucario. I'll try him out again but IDK if I'll like his style. I didn't really last time

 

[hunger!]

My actual brawl name is VerticalHorizon which isn't any more normal.

People just call me VH. Or VHS lol

I may just change it to Horizon. I want a new name period lol

change it to The Human Centipede.

if i get an infraction for this....it was worth it

 

[DLA]

change it to The Human Centipede.

if i get an infraction for this....it was worth it

lol hunger, where's the mouth-to-anus action?

 

[Ripple]

My actual brawl name is VerticalHorizon which isn't any more normal.

People just call me VH. Or VHS lol

I may just change it to Horizon. I want a new name period lol

change it to amby

 

[Kirk]

The **** is going on in here... >.>

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

change it to The Human Centipede.

if i get an infraction for this....it was worth it

What the **** Hunger? Lol that's all I can say.

And I dunno I just want my name to sound sweet. Infern Angelis has such a cool name I want to be a Snake with a cool name XD

I'll figure it out.

 

[ThatsWhatSheSaid]

Whenever there's a religious debate on the PR, this song always pops into my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1vjU4Wl9q0

n_n

 

[Akashi]

That's only dumb*** religions that avoid Love and peace.

Spoiler

Christianity all the Way.

Christianity is guilty too, see: the Crusades.

 

[Akashi]

Akaski: Only if there aren't 12 other Snakes in your state like mine

I'm the only IL snake that places :/ lol

 

[Arty]

I now main Snake

 

[Akashi]

I now main Snake

I'm learning how to boost grab, and I'm relearning the Falco MU with more shenanigans. Get ready to be CG'd <3

 

[Oro?!]

Fuuuuuu I missed everything!

 

[_OraNoS_]

I like "Amby" and could totally benefit from learning Snake things from Akashi, if I go to a Chicago-area tournament again... would you be so awesome to give advice?

 

[Scythe]

I main Snake now as well.

 

[BoTastic!]

Christianity is guilty too, see: the Crusades.

Lol I thought'd you mention someone like that.

But in no way do their actions reflect what is taught in the Bible.

The religion isn't the problem. Its the religious people.

We have true Christians then there are the ones who can't follow instructions. It's like putting together a doll house or something. We all don't like to read instructions for big things but then what happens when we don't?

But yea.. Arty good stuff for saving the results.. Even tho, me and 7FO didn't get 2 byes.. lol We fought this one team, then we fought Xyless. But meh, I'm happy.

I main Snake now as well.

Blasphemy!

 

[Zozefup]

Fixed. Okay, there may be some ancient documents that could be somewhat relatable to Jesus. NONE of these are contemporary with Jesus though; they were all written 2-3 generations after Jesus' death (supposedly). In other words, people who never even saw or met Jesus.

You don't know what your talking about. The New Testament wasn't put together until the 1100s. People believed because of historians and testimony, not because "the Bible said so". Because again, the New Testament didn't even exist. I don't need to use the Bible to prove the Bible. There are countless (non Christian) historians in Rome that tell the events of Jesus's life. All the things I said every history scholar agrees with. They agree that many people who saw Jesus in person BELIEVED he was the Son of God and that he healed everyone he saw. But just because people believed it, that doesn't make it true.

You say that the documents were written 3 generations after Jesus's death, and I don't think a single history scholar on the planet would agree with you. History scholoars know the date the that the books were written and the characters who wrote them. All the dates add up.

Lol no I'm not going look it up. Christians who devote their entire lives to their god should be able to present better evidence for his existence than a crackpot story about an unexplained medical anomaly that happened to one person.

You call Christians ignorant because they don't look up the facts, yet you refuse to look up anything yourself. I can tell by your arguments that you have never looked any of this up, because everything you've said about the Bible is wrong.

If you looked up the video (or anything else of that matter), you would realize that it is not some "crackpot" story. You seem very closed minded to be an atheist.

Also, if he truly was the son of god, why did the JEWS have him crucified? Why would he only convince a few hundred (maybe thousand) followers that he's the son of god? This omnipotent god promised his "chosen people" a messiah; why did he have such a hard time convincing them when he finally sent the messiah?

Have you ever heard the story of Jesus? If you have then you should know why the Jews hated him, and why he could not convince them. The point that he was crucified proves that he was influencing many people, not that he didn't influence anyone. You said he only convinced a few hundred. But by the year 70AD the Romans were burning 5,000 Christians a day in the city of Rome (which is very far away from where Jesus traveled). If he only convinced 100. How did those 100 convince SO many people in just 40 years? (And they convinced them to the point that they were willing to be burned alive over it!) I don't think you realize how much Jesus rocked the nation.

 

[chewyy]

I now main

I can't possibly be the only person to find this hilarious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDENmSJIlMI#t=3m26s

lol, you aren't I assure you.

You don't know what your talking about. The New Testament wasn't put together until the 1100s. People believed because of historians and testimony, not because "the Bible said so". Because again, the New Testament didn't even exist. I don't need to use the Bible to prove the Bible. There are countless (non Christian) historians in Rome that tell the events of Jesus's life. All the things I said every history scholar agrees with. They agree that many people who saw Jesus in person BELIEVED he was the Son of God and that he healed everyone he saw. But just because people believed it, that doesn't make it true.

You say that the documents were written 3 generations after Jesus's death, and I don't think a single history scholar on the planet would agree with you. History scholoars know the date the that the books were written and the characters who wrote them. All the dates add up.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the gospels, you know, the books that actually talk about Jesus's life? Which were in fact written 2-3 generations after Jesus's death.
tons of sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#Dating
http://www.carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom
http://www.gotquestions.org/when-gospels-written.html
http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/Christianity/Gospels.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_were_the_gospels_written

not to mention they taught us that in the world religions class I'm currently taking as a bull**** gen ed.

 

[Zozefup]

Explain please. Are you saying that the Gospels could not have been written by the disicples because the gospels were written after the disciples were dead? Here is a quote from your first source:

* Matthew: c. 50 to 70s
* Mark: c. 50s to early 60s, or late 60s
* Luke: c. 59 to 63, or 70s to 80s
* John: c. 85 to near 100, or 50s to 70


Jesus died in 33AD. So most of the books were written 30 years after Jesus died. Which would mean that the disciples could have written them. Even the older estimates only put them at 40 years after Jesus died. There is no problem with the dates.

DLA said they were written by "people who never saw or met Jesus." But that is just not the case if it was only 30 years after Jesus died.

 

[chewyy]

considering the average life expectancy of the time was 28 years, yes.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Lifespan_variation_over_time

edit: regardless, I'm pretty sure it's accepted as fact that the disciples did not write the gospels.

 

[Zozefup]

But many people lived to well past 28 too. It is not unreasonable that 3 of the 12 apostles lived that long. John may have lived to be 94.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Apostle

30 years after Jesus's death is not very long. Many people who saw Jesus in person would have been able to read the gospels.

 

[chewyy]

Christian tradition holds[/SIZE] he [John] was the last surviving of the Twelve Apostles, the only one to die a natural death and died around the age of 94.

not a reliable source.

30 years after Jesus's death is not very long. Many people who saw Jesus in person would have been able to read the gospels.

Books were rare and expensive back then. I find that to be highly unlikely.

note previous edit.

 

[Oro?!]

As much as this entire argument is lolz, I figured I should just point out that most of your argument Zose stands on the fact that Jesus was a real man, and it is unproven whether or not God exists. Nice one. Now realize that all other world religions can take that same argument. Thus, you cannot prove that if there was a God, that he is the one and only God, that there are not multiple Gods, or even whether or not we lack any God and everything really is just a anomaly of probability.

That being said, watch these. As much as they are completely unrelated, they greatly improve the chance of the probability theory.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA&playnext_from=TL&videos=sGdazHYbfj0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySBaYMESb8o&playnext_from=TL&videos=QYB1tESBwds

Since we are on the topic of lolz, Arty/Quik woke me up this morning with some text messages.
Message 1: Times are tough for a Falcon main.
Response 1: Haha they always have been. What else is new?
Message 2: I killed a man. If you tell anyone I'm gonna have to kill you too.
End conversation.

 

[chewyy]

Since we are on the topic of lolz, Arty/Quik woke me up this morning with some text messages.
Message 1: Times are tough for a Falcon main.
Response 1: Haha they always have been. What else is new?
Message 2: I killed a man. If you tell anyone I'm gonna have to kill you too.
End conversation.

You just told me! Now Arty/Quik are going to have to kill me too!

 

[Quik17]

Don't drag me into this!

 

[Zozefup]

That is why I said "John MAY have lived to be 94." DLA brought up this topic as a proof for why Christianity is false. And it clearly, does not prove Christianity false. It is very possible that 3 of the 12 disciples lived long enough to write those books.

I don't know how many Christians got to read the gospels. I would imagine that a lot of people who saw Jesus in person also got a chance to read them though. Every Christian from everywhere would flock to read the gospel as soon as they heard about it.

@Oro- the argument is that Jesus got 1000s to believe that he was God and he could heal everyone he saw. How could he have convinced so many people if he was not the Son of God and he could not heal people? A logical explanation is that he actually was the Son of God, and he did heal everyone he saw, which is why 1000s believed, and they were willing to be burned alive for it. What would I have to do to make you believe that I was God? He got everyone to believe because he actually healed people, and actually raised people from the dead. Because he actually was God.

Also, other religions cannot say the same thing. Muhammad claims to have had a vision from God when no one else was around. Jesus said I AM God and I'll prove it to you.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

Chewyy and Zozefup:

This debate is entertaining but you guys should just have a money match to determine who is right. Then everything will be solved. Something this serious should be settled with a money match

Also when are you guys having some more Chicago tournaments. My next paycheck will afford me some extra cash (yay overtime) so I wanna visit.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I feel like people who are so deeply rooted in religion (or lack thereof) to argue who's god is mightiest (and most real!) are all missing the point. When you get down to it, every religious text is just a book telling you to be excellent to each other (ignoring that chapter of that eastern book about killing people who believe other religions, anyway). The thing good christians and good atheists have in common is that they're all good people who live by morals that, commandments or not, are dictated by common sense ("I could steal from this guy but that wouldn't be right").


Alternatively, I agree with Horizon's (Amby's?) idea

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

*chants* Money match. Money match. I got support now.

Also is Illinois just going to start calling me Amby now? Lol

Still not sure what I feel like being called by though so its up in the air.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I hear the cool thing to do is to make your name completely related to a character in brawl that you don't play and never have played.

 

[Zozefup]

Yep, I'm about done with this debate. I have to study for finals! Gr. I may right a final summary of my view point later, then be done with it. Thanks for the debate guys, I actually learned a lot. Like.. I didn't know Mark wasn't one of Jesus's disciples until Chewy got me too look up the dates! I can't believe I didn't know that.

Lol, a MM over this would be hilarious!!! And God would be on my side, so I know I'd win! lol j/k

Also, I want to stay with a smash community for about a week sometime this summer. Would anyone in Chicago be able (or want to) house me for a week? lol. You could kick me out at anytime and it wouldn't be a big deal, no questions ask.

@ Th3 Composer, the Bible doesn't teach "good" people go to heaven. The Bible teaches that no one (besides Jesus) is good, and you can never do enough 'good' things to deserve heaven. You only get to heaven through a relationship with Jesus Christ.

P.S. I know some people will say that isn't fair, and that is a whole debate in of itself that I don't want to get into. Basically, the Bible says that you can know with 100% certainty that you are going to heaven by having a relationship with Jesus. We are not supposed to judge if non Christians are going to heaven or hell, God will decide that, and God will decide very fairly.

 

[Oro?!]

I would house anyone in any community anytime because I <3 smash. Zose I really don't care what you believe as long as you accept the fact that I am an Athiest Buddhist Jedi, with strong beliefs that the Greek Gods are my Gods due to documented evidence.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I hear the cool thing to do is to make your name completely related to a character in brawl that you don't play and never have played.

So my options revolve around:

Sonic
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Mario

All of Botttom tier basically

Zelda..

Um. Eh I don't like where this is going lol

Ill figure it out though.

For now I'm gonna go practice not being a generic, D3. I'm strangely drawn to him. And my tech chasing skills with Snake translated over to D3 and its ****. I <3 grabbing people with this fat penguin.

 

[chewyy]

Chewyy and Zozefup:

This debate is entertaining but you guys should just have a money match to determine who is right. Then everything will be solved. Something this serious should be settled with a money match

Also when are you guys having some more Chicago tournaments. My next paycheck will afford me some extra cash (yay overtime) so I wanna visit.

this! I'm done with school on the 12th. Whens the next tournament?

and lol, a MM would be funny

So my options revolve around:

Sonic
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Mario

Sonolimarioigglypuff?

 

[Oro?!]

I'm going to call you Horizen. A play on Horizon and the art of being Zen.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

Funny part is I study Eastern Religions as well.

I do a lot of meditating lol

Chewyy: lol no dude XD

 

[Zozefup]

I would house anyone in any community anytime because I <3 smash. Zose I really don't care what you believe as long as you accept the fact that I am an Athiest Buddhist Jedi, with strong beliefs that the Greek Gods are my Gods due to documented evidence.

That would be awesome! I'll probably hit you up sometime after school is out.

But yeah, the proof of God rest on creation. The evidence of Jesus being God rest on the people who saw him. I can show you some pretty crazy healings and stuff too (I really wish someone would watch that video and give me some input. I believe in God and in miracles, and that video still blows me away.)

But really, the reason people give their life to God is because they have a personal relationship with him. Not documented evidence. Hopefully by looking at creation and hearing the amazing things Jesus did, that will be enough for you to at least give Christianity a chance. The Bible says seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened to you. So go to church and seriously seek after God, and you will find him

And of corse I have to add, if you do not find him, keep seeking! lol. He is there though I promise.

 

[DLA]

I'm not closed minded, I'm just lazy lol. Watching that video would be a waste of time (and when I consider an activity to be a waste of time, you can tell that it's really ****ing pointless lol).

Anyways, yeah Chewwy and Oro covered everything nicely.

Oh and I'm down for the $MM... I main MK now Zozefup, and I know how much you love MK dittos

(no I'm not joking)