The Official Geno Thread

[Reyairia]

Since I didn't find anything on the front page and I'm too lazy to browse through the entire thread, can someone convince me that Geno is likely in Brawl other than the fact that he was greatly voted for?

 

[SiD]

Since I didn't find anything on the front page and I'm too lazy to browse through the entire thread, can someone convince me that Geno is likely in Brawl other than the fact that he was greatly voted for?

Well he's the only third party that was only ever on Nintendo, and was in a Mario game no less.

 

[Reyairia]

Well he's the only third party that was only ever on Nintendo, and was in a Mario game no less.

I'm still failing to be convinced.

 

[SiD]

I'm still failing to be convinced.

Well it's not my job to convince you. Not only does your not wanting him in not matter in the slightest, not only is the fact that your ignoring the poll pointless, but the fact that you didn't even bother to look at the first page knowingly makes me not even want to deal with you further.

So, convince yourself, or go post somewhere else. We aren't havin that here.

 

[Reyairia]

Well it's not my job to convince you. Not only does your not wanting him in not matter in the slightest, not only is the fact that your ignoring the poll pointless, but the fact that you didn't even bother to look at the first page knowingly makes me not even want to deal with you further.

So, convince yourself, or go post somewhere else. We aren't havin that here.

First of all, I am in no way opposed to Geno's inclusion to brawl, I'm just a skeptic. Heck, if he's such the awesome character everyone says he is then I'll support him. As for the poll, it wouldn't be the first time Sakurai has ignored popularity. And I did look at the first page, but I didn't see anything that convincingly portray Geno's chances in Brawl. I can see how SQUARE would lend Geno to Nintendo, but I don't see how Sakurai would actually phone them and ask about it over another Mario character, say Toad or Bowser jr. for example.

 

[SiD]

My mistake, I had misread your earlier post and thought it said you didn't look at the first page. I completely apologise.

Anyway, Geno is way more important than Toad. He was a main character, with a very interesting backstory and personality, in an RPG that is one of the first most of today's gamers ever played. I know I myself got hooked on the Genre because of this game. And Geno had really cool attacks to, that you can find on youtube.

So Sakurai loves retro, and this game is close to that. Geno was very cool and very important in the one game he was in. And it would be very easy to get him in if he tried. Therefore, poll in mind, his chances are very high.

Again, I apologize for my less than professional response earlier. It annoys me when people say crap without even checking the first page. But again, I misread your post, and made bad assumptions based on that, and so again I am sorry.

 

[Reyairia]

My mistake, I had misread your earlier post and thought it said you didn't look at the first page. I completely apologise.

Anyway, Geno is way more important than Toad. He was a main character, with a very interesting backstory and personality, in an RPG that is one of the first most of today's gamers ever played. I know I myself got hooked on the Genre because of this game. And Geno had really cool attacks to, that you can find on youtube.

So Sakurai loves retro, and this game is close to that. Geno was very cool and very important in the one game he was in. And it would be very easy to get him in if he tried. Therefore, poll in mind, his chances are very high.

Again, I apologize for my less than professional response earlier. It annoys me when people say crap without even checking the first page. But again, I misread your post, and made bad assumptions based on that, and so again I am sorry.

You're forgiven, I happen to make similar assumptions myself all the time.

- Toad and Bowser Jr. have at least appeared in more than two games, at least counting the spin-offs. And IMO # of appearances > Importance, the Shadow Queen was very important in Paper Mario 2 and I don't see her getting in. I can say the same for Vaati who was the main villain in three games, but I don't see him getting in either.

- I don't doubt that Sakurai loves retro, so I won't argue against that. However, in all the retro games we have seen including representatives so far (Pit, Ice Climbers, G&W), the representatives have all been the main characters of the games. In the games Geno has been in, he has not been the main character and it was still Mario's name in the title despite however important Geno was.

- Maybe Super Mario RPG was awesome, as I admit I have not played it, but unless it was THE Mario game at the time and/or doubled the popularity of the Mario franchise I don't see it having that big of an importance.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You're forgiven, I happen to make similar assumptions myself all the time.

- Toad and Bowser Jr. have at least appeared in more than two games, at least counting the spin-offs. And IMO # of appearances > Importance, the Shadow Queen was very important in Paper Mario 2 and I don't see her getting in. I can say the same for Vaati who was the main villain in three games, but I don't see him getting in either.

- I don't doubt that Sakurai loves retro, so I won't argue against that. However, in all the retro games we have seen including representatives so far (Pit, Ice Climbers, G&W), the representatives have all been the main characters of the games. In the games Geno has been in, he has not been the main character and it was still Mario's name in the title despite however important Geno was.

- Maybe Super Mario RPG was awesome, as I admit I have not played it, but unless it was THE Mario game at the time and/or doubled the popularity of the Mario franchise I don't see it having that big of an importance.

Not only was Super Mario RPG the Mario game at the time...It's considered the Best Mario game of all time. It also had a MAJOR significance on RPG gamers, even gamers of today. Mario was the main character because it was in HIS franshise but Geno was the most important character.

You would have had to play it to see the significance of Geno.

 

[Sinn]

My only comment on that is that Mario RPG DID end up being the spark the rest of the Mario RPG series, both Paper and Bros...and who knows, if Square and Nintendo hadn't have had that falling out, we may have seen other RPG titles developed by them with Mario (and Geno, perhaps?) by now. As far as importance is concerned, I think that makes it fairly so.

 

[SiD]

Well it actually was THE Mario game at the time, and I'm happy I got to play it in it's glory days.

And Geno was arguably more important in that game than Mario was. And sure it was Mario's name in the title, but Mario is already in the game.

And appearances may be > importance, but popularity is > appearances, IE Jiggs, IC's, G&W, Pit, Sheik, Ike, etc.

 

[Reyairia]

My only comment on that is that Mario RPG DID end up being the spark the rest of the Mario RPG series, both Paper and Bros...and who knows, if Square and Nintendo hadn't have had that falling out, we may have seen other RPG titles developed by them with Mario (and Geno, perhaps?) by now. As far as importance is concerned, I think that makes it fairly so.

The first two Paper Marios were RPGs, but the up-to-date Super Paper Mario is a regular platform one.

Well it actually was THE Mario game at the time, and I'm happy I got to play it in it's glory days.

And Geno was arguably more important in that game than Mario was. And sure it was Mario's name in the title, but Mario is already in the game.

And appearances may be > importance, but popularity is > appearances, IE Jiggs, IC's, G&W, Pit, Sheik, Ike, etc.

I don't see it like Ocarina of Time for Legend of Zelda, which was THE Zelda game until Twilight Princess. If that were the case, I'd think Geno would have been in Melee like Sheik was - who also had only appeared in one game.

Maybe, but it was still his name on the title, Mario was still the main character, and it was still a Mario game.

Jigglypuff was a very reocurring character in the Pokemon cartoon, SSBM was based on Ocarina of Time where Sheik was an important character and ICs, G&W, Ike, etc were all the main characters of their game.

 

[SiD]

A reocurring character in a cartoon is not > a MAJOR role in a widely popular game. The poll shows how popular he is, so my point is that Jiggs was popular in the cartoon, but didn't have huge appearances, neither did the rest of them. So, popularity is obviously important.

And yes it was a Mario game, but again, Mario is already in Brawl.

 

[Sinn]

The first two Paper Marios were RPGs, but the up-to-date Super Paper Mario is a regular platform one.



I don't see it like Ocarina of Time for Legend of Zelda, which was THE Zelda game until Twilight Princess. If that were the case, I'd think Geno would have been in Melee like Sheik was - who also had only appeared in one game.

Maybe, but it was still his name on the title, Mario was still the main character, and it was still a Mario game.

Jigglypuff was a very reocurring character in the Pokemon cartoon, SSBM was based on Ocarina of Time where Sheik was an important character and ICs, G&W, Ike, etc were all the main characters of their game.

SPM may mainly be a platformer, but they still put RPG elements into it...I might think of it more as an action RPG, but at the same time, I would have much preferred there be another RPG installment (which I assume we'll get later in the Wii's lifespan).

And...you don't consider Wind Waker to being the new Zelda game after Ocarina? Why not? I can see how Mario RPG might not be considered THE Mario game because it was an entirely different genre, but Wind Waker was pure traditional Zelda. The traveling aspect in the boat was an odd innovation, and the art style might not have been as epic as OoT's, but WW was still a compelling adventure. Though where it fits in the timeline rally confuses me to this day. Multiple timelines my ***...

As a side note, Brawl's Zelda characters may be based off TP, but I'm expecting there to be some sort of reappearance of Sheik in this game, whether connected to Zelda as a transformation move, as a standalone character, or MINIMALLY as an AT (but I see that as a waste of a good moveset). Ever since hearing that the TP design team did a design of Sheik for the makers of Brawl, I'm stoked to see it...

 

[SiD]

HE's right Sinn, WW was never THE Zelda game, just another good one in the series.

And it takes place about 100 years after Ocaraina, by the way.

 

[Sinn]

I don't really understand that...WW's plot connect directly to the events of OoT; it had a plot that actually included Hyrule, Zelda, Ganondorf AND the Triforce (unlike, say, Majora's Mask or Link's Awakening); it was the first Zelda game for the newest Nintendo console at the time; on top of that, the WW design for Link has been used in all of the hand held games since it was released. HOW did it not supersede OoT?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't really understand that...WW's plot connect directly to the events of OoT; it had a plot that actually included Hyrule, Zelda, Ganondorf AND the Triforce (unlike, say, Majora's Mask or Link's Awakening); it was the first Zelda game for the newest Nintendo console at the time; on top of that, the WW design for Link has been used in all of the hand held games since it was released. HOW did it not supersede OoT?

You cannot compare WW to the greatness of OoT

 

[SiD]

I don't really understand that...WW's plot connect directly to the events of OoT; it had a plot that actually included Hyrule, Zelda, Ganondorf AND the Triforce (unlike, say, Majora's Mask or Link's Awakening); it was the first Zelda game for the newest Nintendo console at the time; on top of that, the WW design for Link has been used in all of the hand held games since it was released. HOW did it not supersede OoT?

Because of how groundbreaking it was, because WW was easier and shorter than other Zelda games, and admittedly because some gamers don't care for that art style

Anyway, yeah it's connected to OoT's plot. OoT is the first game in the series storyline wise, and at some point after TP the world got flooded and cel shaded. Which brings us into Wind Waker.

 

[Reyairia]

A reocurring character in a cartoon is not > a MAJOR role in a widely popular game. The poll shows how popular he is, so my point is that Jiggs was popular in the cartoon, but didn't have huge appearances, neither did the rest of them. So, popularity is obviously important.

And yes it was a Mario game, but again, Mario is already in Brawl.

Says who? I don't see how the popularity in a cartoon wouldn't influence the popularity in a game or even if they appear in a Smash title. Do you have any first hand source that says that a cartoon doesn't matter at all? As I said again, the fact that Jiggs was a reocurring character in a cartoon could have only so easily influenced it's popularity in the games as well.

SPM may mainly be a platformer, but they still put RPG elements into it...I might think of it more as an action RPG, but at the same time, I would have much preferred there be another RPG installment (which I assume we'll get later in the Wii's lifespan).

And...you don't consider Wind Waker to being the new Zelda game after Ocarina? Why not? I can see how Mario RPG might not be considered THE Mario game because it was an entirely different genre, but Wind Waker was pure traditional Zelda. The traveling aspect in the boat was an odd innovation, and the art style might not have been as epic as OoT's, but WW was still a compelling adventure. Though where it fits in the timeline rally confuses me to this day. Multiple timelines my ***...

As a side note, Brawl's Zelda characters may be based off TP, but I'm expecting there to be some sort of reappearance of Sheik in this game, whether connected to Zelda as a transformation move, as a standalone character, or MINIMALLY as an AT (but I see that as a waste of a good moveset). Ever since hearing that the TP design team did a design of Sheik for the makers of Brawl, I'm stoked to see it...

It's still a platformer, and the Smash titles tend to base off their designs and concepts from the latest game.

I adored Wind Waker as much as the next person, and I loved how the world changed, etcetera. However, the fact is that it wasn't intended to be such a hit as oot since it only had what? 4 dungeons? And it didn't have the feel of exploration like oot had because a lot of involved sailing over water. I read fanfiction often and I did notice that despite WW most fanfiction were still based on Ocarina of Time. Really, WW just struck me as a game meant for a handheld system that somehow got into the gamecube - maybe that's why Phantom Hourglass is for the DS. Despite WW being a non-handheld game, OOT still kept it's title as THE Zelda game until Twilight Princess.

I think Sheik has a 50-50 chance of being scrapped or being in, but I think a lot of that is because there would be a lot of complaints if she were taken off the roster due to, as everyone knows, being overpowered. I'd say the same if Geno had been included in Melee.

 

[SiD]

Says who? I don't see how the popularity in a cartoon wouldn't influence the popularity in a game or even if they appear in a Smash title. Do you have any first hand source that says that a cartoon doesn't matter at all? As I said again, the fact that Jiggs was a reocurring character in a cartoon could have only so easily influenced it's popularity in the games as well.

I think your missing the main point of that you quoted, so I'll quote myself:

(Some crap about cartoons and bugs bunny.) The poll shows how popular he is, so my point is that Jiggs was popular in the cartoon, but didn't have huge appearances, neither did the rest of them. So, popularity is obviously important.

See? The point is that Jiggs is in cause she was popular, because of the cartoon. She was not important at all in any game ever. So popularity seems to be the most important factor here.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...I don't see the anti-Geno's logic...

He fits all the requirments but has only been in 1 game...which is not a requirement. Especially since that one game (Though actually he also made a cameo in another game) gave him enough popularity that he came up so high on Sakurai's poll...

 

[Sinn]

You cannot compare WW to the greatness of OoT

I suppose I'm going to have to chalk this one up to a difference of opinions...since I can see how this opinion is being formed since I have a similar one concerning the Star Fox series and all the games since 64. Personally, I just don't feel that WW missed the mark in the same degree that SF Assault did (and I haven't played Command, but from what I've heard of it so far...yeah. No contest there).

 

[SiD]

Because of how groundbreaking it was, because WW was easier and shorter than other Zelda games, and admittedly because some gamers don't care for that art style

Anyway, yeah it's connected to OoT's plot. OoT is the first game in the series storyline wise, and at some point after TP the world got flooded and cel shaded. Which brings us into Wind Waker.

This is why it's not as important.

 

[Reyairia]

I think your missing the main point of that you quoted, so I'll quote myself:



See? The point is that Jiggs is in cause she was popular, because of the cartoon. She was not important at all in any game ever. So popularity seems to be the most important factor here.

Or that she got in because she was a reocurring character in the cartoon. Wait a second, I just recently got into gaming but I remember a game being made almost entirely in the cartoon's image. Pokemon Yellow anyone? Yes, the cartoon alone influences what appears in the games.

I am NOT anti-Geno, I just don't understand why people think his chances are so high or why he would be included over more reocurring characters from the Mario franchise such as Birdo or Bowser Jr. It's not as if I'd be pissed off if Geno was included in Brawl, if anything if he's as awesome as you say he is I'd be excited.

The only "requirement" I see for inclusion in Brawl is for a character to be reocurring. Geno isn't.

 

[SiD]

Or that she got in because she was a reocurring character in the cartoon. Wait a second, I just recently got into gaming but I remember a game being made almost entirely in the cartoon's image. Pokemon Yellow anyone? Yes, the cartoon alone influences what appears in the games.

I am NOT anti-Geno, I just don't understand why people think his chances are so high or why he would be included over more reocurring characters from the Mario franchise such as Birdo or Bowser Jr. It's not as if I'd be pissed off if Geno was included in Brawl, if anything if he's as awesome as you say he is I'd be excited.

Because reocurring is not as important as popularity, why else would Pichu be in the game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Or that she got in because she was a reocurring character in the cartoon. Wait a second, I just recently got into gaming but I remember a game being made almost entirely in the cartoon's image. Pokemon Yellow anyone? Yes, the cartoon alone influences what appears in the games.

I am NOT anti-Geno, I just don't understand why people think his chances are so high or why he would be included over more reocurring characters from the Mario franchise such as Birdo or Bowser Jr. It's not as if I'd be pissed off if Geno was included in Brawl, if anything if he's as awesome as you say he is I'd be excited.

Birdo was only in 1 game in the Mario series...than he became a spin-off character, only in the sports games, which gives him the same credibility as Waluigi...especially since Mario 2 was not even a Mario game in Japan...it was Doki Doki Panic! ...they changed the characters to Mario characters to sell in America.

Than again, Birdo IS in Mario RPG.

Bowser Jr. is only a recent addition and I doesn't have the popularity of Geno. I don't think he deserves a spot over Geno until he has proven his worth in time.

reoccuring is NOT a requirement

 

[Reyairia]

Because reocurring is not as important as popularity, why else would Pichu be in the game.

I'm not sure how Pichu would have worked into Brawl, but for example; King Dedede not being in Melee is practically proof that popularity isn't all there is.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm not sure how Pichu would have worked into Brawl, but for example; King Dedede not being in Melee is practically proof that popularity isn't all there is.

that was for other reasons...He was suppose to be but was cut because of time constraints...

and because Sakurai is "modest" about his own characters

 

[SiD]

I'm not sure how Pichu would have worked into Brawl, but for example; King Dedede not being in Melee is practically proof that popularity isn't all there is.

But Melee had huge time constraints. This time, with this poll, we know that characters lower than Geno have gotten in. So, it is logical to assume he and Dedede will be in Brawl, being the most requested characters evar.

THe poll shows us that:

-Geno is popular
-By extention, Geno is recognizable by a LOT of people
-Sakurai cares what we want in the game

Therefore, his chances are so high I'd be suprised were he not in the game, same as with Dedede.

 

[Enigma14]

But Melee had huge time constraints. This time, with this poll, we know that characters lower than Geno have gotten in. So, it is logical to assume he and Dedede will be in Brawl, being the most requested characters evar.

THe poll shows us that:

-Geno is popular
-By extention, Geno is recognizable by a LOT of people
-Sakurai cares what we want in the game

Therefore, his chances are so high I'd be suprised were he not in the game, same as with Dedede.

Ddd has a chance of being a mini boss like Petery, I have nothng against him its just likely, or possible.

 

[Sinn]

Considering that they planned to include DeDeDe since the first game for the 64, I wouldn't think that they would only make him a boss...

 

[SiD]

I doubt it, Dedede is WAY more important than Petey, and is also not a giant.

 

[Reyairia]

But Melee had huge time constraints. This time, with this poll, we know that characters lower than Geno have gotten in. So, it is logical to assume he and Dedede will be in Brawl, being the most requested characters evar.

THe poll shows us that:

-Geno is popular
-By extention, Geno is recognizable by a LOT of people
-Sakurai cares what we want in the game

Therefore, his chances are so high I'd be suprised were he not in the game, same as with Dedede.

Dedede is probably one of the most reocurring characters in the Kirby series after Kirby himself, I'd also be surprised if he wasn't included, but Dedede is reocurring while Geno is not and you can't compare the two.
Did I forget to mention I've only played one kirby game so far yet I know this?

Anyway, I'm retiring. Not because I've been convinced, but because I simply can't keep up. I still don't see Geno's chances being much higher than 35% even if popularity matters quite a bit.

 

[SiD]

Dedede is probably one of the most reocurring characters in the Kirby series after Kirby himself, I'd also be surprised if he wasn't included, but Dedede is reocurring while Geno is not and you can't compare the two.
Did I forget to mention I've only played one kirby game so far yet I know this?

Exactly my point, that Dedede is as you describe and yet was only barely more suggested than Geno. This shows how much he really is wanted in Brawl. Do you see the logic here?

Anyway, I need to go to sleep, why I'm still awake at 6 am is beyond me.

 

[Enigma14]

Considering that they planned to include DeDeDe since the first game for the 64, I wouldn't think that they would only make him a boss...

Same with Bowser and Peach

 

[SiD]

Same with Bowser and Peach

And Bowser and Peach aren't bosses, case and point.

 

[Sinn]

Hah, you silly people going to bed late. I woke up at 4 AM <3

 

[Fawriel]

Heh, you silly people staying up late. I was born in Europe. ^^

 

[Enigma14]

Who here is really well in Photoshop so that they can make a Geno look like a fighter?

 

[Snakz]

^actually, it's best to do thatin Blender, not photoshop, and ive been thinkin about doin that for a while

Ah, screw it, ill do it

 

[rocky_c45]

help me plz